thank you for doing what everyone else wanted to do but couldnt be bothered
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Election 2008, United States
- Thread starter Great Sage
- Start date
I would disagree with this statement. Sure tear his argument to shreds, but I feel that this election has been a very positive one for the USA. It has shown that racism, bigotry and Xenophobia are no where near as wide spread as they used to be. It also shows many many people that the colour of your skin does not matter any more, and not only are black people today accepted in society 63% (poll) feel completely comfortable with Barack Obama as president. It has been an experience that America would have to go through some day, and i think you came out of it very well. The one thing that I heard more today than anything else (In England by the way) was "I'm glad America didn't fuck up this time." Which shows how political attitudes towards america may also be changing.
On an alternative note, what makes people think McCain would keep the country safer than Obama. At the end of the day they will have similar advisors, McCain was in the Army 5 of those years kept in a prison of war camp. Sure he can conduct a battle, but what does that have to do with international foreign policy?
Racism against blacks is not the only form of racism. The whole "Arab" bullshit is more of what I was referring to.
If anything, Goldfan, I would think he was referring to all the state ballot measures that got passed.
You can see the major ones here, and I'm going to go down the list and critique.
What I like:
CA Prop 4 failed - I'm firmly against anything restricting abortion in any way.
CO Amendment 46 - it's still 50/50, but if it passes it's a step in the right direction. I find affirmative action to be stomach-turning.
CO Amendment 48 failed - and it failed HUGE. I'm glad that this wasn't even close, this is more abortion-related junk.
MD Question 2 passed - we already allow state-sanctioned gambling, let's stop kidding ourselves and just open it up to all.
MI Prop 1 passed - I'm against all drug restrictions as well, so this is a step in the right direction.
MI Prop 2 passed - fuck yeah, win one for science! Michigan had a good day.
NE Initiative 424 passed - good work guys!
SD Initiative 11 failed - I'm surprised and delighted at the outcome of this one, especially in SD
WA Initiative 1000 passed - another great move forward. Kevorkian was a scapegoat because people didn't want to face facts.
What I don't like:
AZ Prop 102 passed - yay intolerance!
AZ Prop 202 failed - apparently Arizonians like them their illegal aliens
AK Initiative 1 passed - good for you! Everyone knows gay people shouldn't raise children.
CA Prop 8 passed - yeah, see Kristy's thread (who thought I'd ever say that?)
FL Amendment 2 passed - fuck gay marriage, yeayea!!!!!!!
MA Question 1 failed - really? 70% had the option to lessen and then repeal their own state tax... and voted NO???
You can see the major ones here, and I'm going to go down the list and critique.
What I like:
CA Prop 4 failed - I'm firmly against anything restricting abortion in any way.
CO Amendment 46 - it's still 50/50, but if it passes it's a step in the right direction. I find affirmative action to be stomach-turning.
CO Amendment 48 failed - and it failed HUGE. I'm glad that this wasn't even close, this is more abortion-related junk.
MD Question 2 passed - we already allow state-sanctioned gambling, let's stop kidding ourselves and just open it up to all.
MI Prop 1 passed - I'm against all drug restrictions as well, so this is a step in the right direction.
MI Prop 2 passed - fuck yeah, win one for science! Michigan had a good day.
NE Initiative 424 passed - good work guys!
SD Initiative 11 failed - I'm surprised and delighted at the outcome of this one, especially in SD
WA Initiative 1000 passed - another great move forward. Kevorkian was a scapegoat because people didn't want to face facts.
What I don't like:
AZ Prop 102 passed - yay intolerance!
AZ Prop 202 failed - apparently Arizonians like them their illegal aliens
AK Initiative 1 passed - good for you! Everyone knows gay people shouldn't raise children.
CA Prop 8 passed - yeah, see Kristy's thread (who thought I'd ever say that?)
FL Amendment 2 passed - fuck gay marriage, yeayea!!!!!!!
MA Question 1 failed - really? 70% had the option to lessen and then repeal their own state tax... and voted NO???
First of all, congratulations Obama - good luck running our country.
My main point I want to make:
For the past few weeks, when I walked into school, there was always some person wearing an Obama/Biden shirt. Now, this is in no way racist, but each day, that person was African American. Now, this could've been considered a coincidence, but every day? Doubtful.
Then, election day passed, and today when I went to school, all those same people were celebrating and shouting Obama's name. Now I find nothing wrong with this, but here's the thing:
People are saying that Obama will turn America into a socialist country. I'm not going to agree or disagree, because I'm probably not educated enough on his policy, but the one thing I have to say is this: If Obama fixes our country and we become the great country we used to be, then Kudos to him. But if he ends up turning our country into a socialist crap-country, then I'm going to say "I told you so" to all the people who were voting because of race. That may be extremely cynical of me, but that's just who I am.
Also, quoting Stephen Colbert from last night's "Indecision 2008" program:
"It's no surprise that Obama won New York. New York would never vote for John McCain. The City That Never Sleeps doesn't mix well with a man who goes to bed at 7:30 PM."
My main point I want to make:
For the past few weeks, when I walked into school, there was always some person wearing an Obama/Biden shirt. Now, this is in no way racist, but each day, that person was African American. Now, this could've been considered a coincidence, but every day? Doubtful.
Then, election day passed, and today when I went to school, all those same people were celebrating and shouting Obama's name. Now I find nothing wrong with this, but here's the thing:
People are saying that Obama will turn America into a socialist country. I'm not going to agree or disagree, because I'm probably not educated enough on his policy, but the one thing I have to say is this: If Obama fixes our country and we become the great country we used to be, then Kudos to him. But if he ends up turning our country into a socialist crap-country, then I'm going to say "I told you so" to all the people who were voting because of race. That may be extremely cynical of me, but that's just who I am.
Also, quoting Stephen Colbert from last night's "Indecision 2008" program:
"It's no surprise that Obama won New York. New York would never vote for John McCain. The City That Never Sleeps doesn't mix well with a man who goes to bed at 7:30 PM."
The liberal in me recognizes your argument, but the Libertarian in me screams "who gives a shit!"
I just listed a bunch of major things where they're exactly the same on the economy/financial issues.
And also, change should be more than a switch to the other side of an ideological duopoly.
Even in foreign policy Obama is not some peacenik; he wants to be as aggressive as Bush ever was - just not in Iraq. Afghanistan was supposed to be a fucking police action, not an occupation. If anything Obama will be hawkish to please the neo-con rats/termites/pigs who have jumped off the sinking GOP ship (good for the republicans, bad for the dems - they'll sink the left the same way they sunk the right)
So I don't see the major, transformative change here.
CA Prop 4 failed - obviously i'm pro-life so ;_;
CO Amendment 46 - fuck racis...er..."affirmative action" (yes affirmative action is racism)
CO Amendment 48 failed - would have been nice ;_;
MD Question 2 passed - voted YES on question too !!!!111! ^_^
MI Prop 1 passed - fuck the drug war
MI Prop 2 passed - Eh, it's moot once they figure out how to get stem cells from non-embryos. If they're not actually killing embryos (just using already-dead ones from miscarriages and such) then its better.
WA Initiative 1000 passed - uh...tenatively against PAS (i don't think doctors should encourage patients to kill themselves, let alone kill them even on request, on a moral level) but i see the argument for it
SD Initiative 11 failed - ugh come on there are more restrictions on abortion in some parts of europe IIRC (if i'm wrong please correct me)
AZ Prop 202 failed - uh - don't like rewarding people for lawbreaking but don't want to kick people out of the country that have lived here for 20 years
besides cheap labor ftw
AK Initiative 1 passed - ridiculous.
CA Prop 8 passed - will discuss in thread
FL Amendment 2 passed - "civil unions" > "marriage"
MA Question 1 failed - *facepalm*
okay this scares the shit out of me
who the fuck votes AGAINST tax cuts
Surgo said:
didn't we have roads and police and firefighters before income taxes
here is my question, and it is a simple one.
What the hell do you people want?
All of you republicans are like "Oh man, they are going to take our shit!", but you want better health care. As the old saying goes, You cannot have your cake and eat it too.
All those arguments going on how Obama is on the left is fucking retarded. First of all, it's not spread the wealth. It's everyone put some money in the fucking pot so we can run the country better. Or do you prefer to pay for everything yourself? Every time you go to a hospital, every time you go to the police?
Oh wait! Most Americans can't keep their jobs cause greedy fat pig corporations are doing this neat little thing called outsourcing! Fuck the whole management, we can just pay 0.25 a day to people half way across the world!
And If you want left, Fidel Castro fits the bill quite well.
God, some of you people are too retarded to look at the big picture. I would even say that Americans are so behind in social changes that it is just sad...
What the hell do you people want?
All of you republicans are like "Oh man, they are going to take our shit!", but you want better health care. As the old saying goes, You cannot have your cake and eat it too.
All those arguments going on how Obama is on the left is fucking retarded. First of all, it's not spread the wealth. It's everyone put some money in the fucking pot so we can run the country better. Or do you prefer to pay for everything yourself? Every time you go to a hospital, every time you go to the police?
Oh wait! Most Americans can't keep their jobs cause greedy fat pig corporations are doing this neat little thing called outsourcing! Fuck the whole management, we can just pay 0.25 a day to people half way across the world!
And If you want left, Fidel Castro fits the bill quite well.
God, some of you people are too retarded to look at the big picture. I would even say that Americans are so behind in social changes that it is just sad...
You know who else had socialism?
Star Trek
Star Trek
Are you saying that Obama won this election because all the black people voted for him?
You do know that under 15% of the population is black right?
Every "socialist" (because you yanks throw the term around like a hotcake) country in the world has a better life expectancy for the general population than the US does.
Obama is very "cult of personality", but at least he's not another Republican.
I agree with you; it's imperfect for sure, but "universal failure" is far too simplistic. Here are some facts from an article I read:
Here's the article. Some things that came to my mind: long wait times for non-emergency services (e.g. to see a specialist); program is under-funded (or at least it was in 2004, when the article was written); you can't pay to see a doctor sooner.
IN CRITICAL CONDITION: HEALTH CARE IN AMERICA
CANADA'S WAY: What a universal health care system delivers, good and bad
I was mostly referring to the experiments within the U.S.
http://www.boston.com/news/health/articles/2008/09/22/across_mass_wait_to_see_doctors_grows?mode=PF
Costs are up, there are less primary care providers, and waits for care is down. Certainly not getting a success vibe in the least.
And then there was the failure of the Tennessee universal health care system - cost overruns, decline in both quality and availability, budgetary crisis. Sound familiar?
And then there's the recent failure of Hawaii's universal health-care system
http://www.businessandmedia.org/printer/2008/20081017135241.aspx
which wasn't even "universal" - it was only for children.
Same thing.
In particular, to a large extent people who could pay for health care insurance actually dropped private plans to get it for "free".
And this is just in the United States.
Canada is probably the best example of universal healthcare because it provides options for for private care. Wait times are still a problem though. Costs are less though; a lot of the disparity comes from better technology in the U.S, as well as higher salaries for health-care professionals and higher administrative costs. Also, part of it is bad regulation, as our system cannot buy drugs the way Canada's system cannot.
Don't know about French healthcare I admit.
A good question is, how many people actually did some fucking research on whatever candidate they were voting for?
Even if we elected the right guy for the job, I would still consider it a monumentous failure if people didn't actually stop and think first.
Even if we elected the right guy for the job, I would still consider it a monumentous failure if people didn't actually stop and think first.
On this point in particular with Canadian health care:Ancien Regime said:
Wait times appear to be a problem because of a certain bad policy as much as anything else. There is something of a flood of perfectly legitimate doctors who have immigrated to Canada from India, with perfectly legitimate medical degrees, who want to practice medicine in Canada, but are seriously being barred from doing so. As far as I can tell, this reason is solely bureaucratic and fear-based, and not borne out of any legitimate concern with the quality of their education.
Perhaps some Canadian smogoners can chime in here.
Imo the whole "foreign degrees are worthless" is just stupid in general - are they just assuming it because it's from a third world country or is it because they actually looked at the curricula.
(i for one would be pissed as fuck if my SO's college education was worthless in the states because she lives in a "third world country")