Enchanted Items [Now Multibility]

Had a great time trying this today, saw a surprising amount of diverse mons and sets. One thing I noticed is that I had an Umbreon holding Stick (Pressure) and the mouseover display of opposing Pokemon showed them losing 2 PP per move, but they were able to keep using the move after it reached zero (Hydro Pump went from 1 PP to -1 PP to -3 PP and my opponent was still using it, I didn't get the chance to ask if he saw the negative PP numbers as well or if it was only on my side.) I'm not really sure exactly what happened with that; I assume most people won't be using Pressure much in this meta, but for those who do decide to try it, hopefully there can be a solution for whatever happened there. Everything else I saw in a night of playing worked very well, and it's been a lot of fun to try some interesting things out and see what others have come up with for this
 
I've just had a look at the way the battle engine handles Pressure, and it's hard-coded to only work if it's an Ability. At this point I don't think it's worth trying to fix, but maybe next year when this wins OMotM again we could look into all the various things that didn't quite work correctly this time around.
 
Could we suspect a Regenerator-ban as added ability please?

Currently, switching is heavily trivialized by the fact that you run double regenerator core and therefore don't even take chip damage from switching and it's dominating the meta. Everybody and their mom is running double Regenerator on at least 2 out of these mons:

Amoongus-Blissey-RotomW-LandorusT-Slowbro.

And to be frank, it entirely demolishes teambuilding. If you play normal OU, you can keep stallbreaking in the back of your mind and put 1, maybe 2 counters on certain mons to be able to combat the most common strategies (ex.: Always having a fire move in your team for Ferrothorn).
In EI, it has to be either a really central aspect of your teambuilding, or you have to combat fire with fire and run it yourself. You're almost entirely lost if you don't have mold breaker Stealth Rocks to combat at least SOME of the healing and to break potential Multiscales, there's no mon viable enough to break the common Blissey-physical Tank strat, so what it boils down to is either someone HEAVILY misplaying (because even small mistakes like switching slowbro into a Leafblade aren't that big of a problem because he's gonna outtank it anyway.) or simply and sadly pp-Stall.

Have a look at this Replay between two high Ladder players, Groudon-Attack (rank 2) and Ghoul King (rank 4). You see that even with entry hazards there, it is barely any fighting at all and more a switch fiesta until somebody misplays. The first mon to die dies around TURN 200 and the second in turn 220 by a crit. And while this replay ends shortly after due to Ghoul King misplaying and getting sweeped by Volcarona, I don't even wanna know how long this took IRL.

This is neither fun nor competitively interesting, all it is is exhausting.

And while we're at it, I found that Porygon-Z was only under suspect test because a Protean-PZ is the only thing that completely counters Regenerator-tank-spam, as (which most people have noticed) Godwall Blissey can't quite tank 2 Psyshocks, which makes it the only mon that was viable in EI so far that can actually stallbreak this car crash of a strategy. Because normally, offensive (and I mean really offensive, not double regenerator offensive) teams have almost 0 problems with P-Z because it has no bulk and will die to a supereffective attack against it's proteaned type, and due to it's piss poor Speedbase of 90 gets outspeeded by everything you could remotely call a sweeper. But if you're only running slow double regenerator tanks who completely rely on your enemy not being able to power through both blissey and a phys tank, yeah you're in for a bad time. And technically, with the right predictions, even Slowbro-Blissey double regen can counter P-Z, since Slowbro will take less than regen damage from Psyshock and Blissey will take less than regen damage from Thunderbolt/Dark Pulse. But hey, one mispredict and you're done for, but that is how Pokemon should be. If you correctly predict your opponent 32 times in a row, yes you deserve to win. If you don't even remotely need any prediction power whatsoever to safely switch as your opponent will most likely lose more from switching because you're regenning from permanent switching, thats what I'd call a problem.
 

ihhca

STABman
I think that regen is a problem, but the issue with porygon was that it could just click nasty plot and blow both Slowbro and blissey wide open without having to predict. There were a whopping 3 Pokemon it didn't 2hko at +0, 2 of them died to HP fighting, and 2 of them literally couldn't do anything back. Fighting regen with pgonz is not the right answer when you can ban or nerf both of them.
 
At this point I'll probably also call for Regenerator suspect for an ENTIRE ban (no, not nerf to 1, you have to be consistent and nerfing to 1 counts as complex banning). But since the meta only have 3-4 days left, well, I can't really say anything right now. Probably after Sun and Moon comes out where there may be more wallbreakers, this thing may not be an issue. Right now, if a decision needs to be made, it's either quickban (or test banned like Porygon-Z's case) or doing nothing, since suspecting now is kinda pointless.
 
The issue with porygon was that it could just click nasty plot and blow both Slowbro and blissey wide open without having to predict. There were a whopping 3 Pokemon it didn't 2hko at +0, 2 of them died to HP fighting, and 2 of them literally couldn't do anything back. Fighting regen with pgonz is not the right answer when you can ban or nerf both of them.
Thats the thing, it's completely ok that he's able to OHKO most of the things. Because, he is so. Damn. Slow. speedbase 90 means he can get to a max speed of 306, which is nothing. Everything with Speed boost outspeeds him after a protect. Jirachi, Mew and every base 100 mon outspeeds him. If you were to think outside the Regenerator-Core-Box for a minute and think of real offensive teams with Garchomp and the likes, you realize Porygon-Z is too slow to really sweep balanced teams. But since speed is not a factor when you're playing stall, you might have a problem if your fastest mon barely reaches 250 speed. Also since he relies on BoltBeam Coverage to kill most things, 2 of the most used offensive moves, Stone Edge and Earthquake can hit him Supereffectively.
 
Thats the thing, it's completely ok that he's able to OHKO most of the things. Because, he is so. Damn. Slow. speedbase 90 means he can get to a max speed of 306, which is nothing. Everything with Speed boost outspeeds him after a protect. Jirachi, Mew and every base 100 mon outspeeds him. If you were to think outside the Regenerator-Core-Box for a minute and think of real offensive teams with Garchomp and the likes, you realize Porygon-Z is too slow to really sweep balanced teams. But since speed is not a factor when you're playing stall, you might have a problem if your fastest mon barely reaches 250 speed. Also since he relies on BoltBeam Coverage to kill most things, 2 of the most used offensive moves, Stone Edge and Earthquake can hit him Supereffectively.
I haven't played this metagame yet, so take everything I say with more than a grain of salt. Porygon-Z sounds like Hoopa-U in that it murders stall and balance but is only decent against offense. You saying that stall players should just predict Z's attacks is very reminiscent of Hoopa, and like Hoopa, Z has little risk in clicking an attack against stall (especially if that attack is Nasty Plot) while stall will lose a mon if it predicts wrong. Regenerator really does seem to be a problem as well, but using broken to check broken doesn't lead to a healthy metagame. Banning both Z and Figy Berry seems like a good course of action for now in my opinion. After all, both seem to have a very unbalanced risk vs reward. There's no risk for Z to set up Nasty Plot, and there's no risk for Regen Cores to switch out. Just my 2 cents.

Anyway, I think I'll try out this meta even with its short amount of time left, and I'll definitely play it when it's inevitably nominated during Sun and Moon.
 
Yeah, it's definetely not okay that pz can do that. Comparable examples might be Gardevoir-Mega in OU, except that Garde has few switch ins where pz has none.

Or maybe Exploud in RU is a better comparison, since that literally has no GSIs. Except that pz has a much better speed tier and isn't choice locked. It will still 2hko most things with the right move, even if you resist the first hit, like Slowbro switching into Ice Beam.
 
You saying that stall players should just predict Z's attacks is very reminiscent of Hoopa, and like Hoopa, Z has little risk in clicking an attack against stall (especially if that attack is Nasty Plot) while stall will lose a mon if it predicts wrong. Regenerator really does seem to be a problem as well, but using broken to check broken doesn't lead to a healthy metagame. Banning both Z and Figy Berry seems like a good course of action for now in my opinion. After all, both seem to have a very unbalanced risk vs reward. There's no risk for Z to set up Nasty Plot, and there's no risk for Regen Cores to switch out. Just my 2 cents.
This is only true if you're playing full stall. Hoopa-U's problem was that he was a mixed sweeper that can break shields AND has decent special Bulk. P-Z has none of those things. Although most will run psyshock he is technically a full special attacker, meaning attacks lowering special attack force him to switch. He has 75 SpDef Base. Hoopa-U has 130. Porygon is also very predictable abilitywise, as he is forced to have both Adaptability and Protean to be viable. Hoopa-U can run many different items including Life orb or a choice item which grant him in total more damage than P-Z ever has.

And even with all of that, Sigilyph and Clefable still completely wall P-Z as they can outheal/boost his damage while gaining a siginificant advantage, and P-Z can't boost against them due to unaware.
 

ihhca

STABman
So you're saying we should undo the porygon ban and make stall unplayable to fix regen? Why not just ban figi berry or whatever the regen item is? We banned porygon for a really good reason, and you can read through the last 5 pages of this thread to find out why instead of reviving a dead topic.
 
So you're saying we should undo the porygon ban and make stall unplayable to fix regen? Why not just ban figi berry or whatever the regen item is? We banned porygon for a really good reason, and you can read through the last 5 pages of this thread to find out why instead of reviving a dead topic.
I'm simply saying that Porygon-Z's being highly influential in this meta is because everybody HAS to run at least a double stall core - Without Regen he's not as big of a problem anymore if you're not running full stall. He's also walled by a lot of things but those things can't carry Regenerator on top of their abilities so they're considered useless in this meta - Porygon-Z is not unwallable and stall is ALWAYS going to be viable as long as Chansey's evolution line exists, in any metagame, ever. Even in Balanced Hackmons Chansey is S-Tier. And if Porygon was really that much of a problem, more than 3 users would have voted for him to ban, most of us here don't really seem to care if he's here or not.

Alternatively you could also unban Shadow-Tag as innate ability (kinda like Huge and Pure power are treated now) and instead ban Woobuffet, leaving us with Gothithelle as only Shadow Tag user, which on its own still doesn't do much, but stops swapping back and forth and back and forth and back....

Anyway, what I'm saying is Regen is taking the fun out of EI and something has to be done about it, whether it is banning the ability or bringing a highly useful Stallbreaker back. I'm generally not a fan of Stall being S tier because at some point it's bound to become stale, but I'm happily satisfied with just a regen ban - heck, a Chansey- evolutionline ban might already suffice as the godly special wall with natural cure is gone.
 
I'm simply saying that Porygon-Z's being highly influential in this meta is because everybody HAS to run at least a double stall core - Without Regen he's not as big of a problem anymore if you're not running full stall. He's also walled by a lot of things but those things can't carry Regenerator on top of their abilities so they're considered useless in this meta - Porygon-Z is not unwallable and stall is ALWAYS going to be viable as long as Chansey's evolution line exists, in any metagame, ever. Even in Balanced Hackmons Chansey is S-Tier. And if Porygon was really that much of a problem, more than 3 users would have voted for him to ban, most of us here don't really seem to care if he's here or not.

Alternatively you could also unban Shadow-Tag as innate ability (kinda like Huge and Pure power are treated now) and instead ban Woobuffet, leaving us with Gothithelle as only Shadow Tag user, which on its own still doesn't do much, but stops swapping back and forth and back and forth and back....

Anyway, what I'm saying is Regen is taking the fun out of EI and something has to be done about it, whether it is banning the ability or bringing a highly useful Stallbreaker back. I'm generally not a fan of Stall being S tier because at some point it's bound to become stale, but I'm happily satisfied with just a regen ban - heck, a Chansey- evolutionline ban might already suffice as the godly special wall with natural cure is gone.
Chansey isn't S tier for stalling. It's S tier because it's the best Imposter user in a metagame infested with ridiculous set up.
Are you crazy? Gothitelle is the reason Shadow Tag is banned in the first place. Why would Wobbuffett be banned? It's niche at best even with Shadow Tag.

Your earlier point on lowering SP attack is weak. MoonBlast is the only worthwhile attack that does this, and it only has a chance to (other than Parting Shot, but Pangoro isn't exactly switching in on Z). You'd have to run Serene Grace to have a chance to make it reliable, and that's really niche. You also might as well not be saying anything by saying Z has answers without listing them.
 
Chansey isn't S tier for stalling. It's S tier because it's the best Imposter user in a metagame infested with ridiculous set up.
Are you crazy? Gothitelle is the reason Shadow Tag is banned in the first place. Why would Wobbuffett be banned? It's niche at best even with Shadow Tag.

Your earlier point on lowering SP attack is weak. MoonBlast is the only worthwhile attack that does this, and it only has a chance to (other than Parting Shot, but Pangoro isn't exactly switching in on Z). You'd have to run Serene Grace to have a chance to make it reliable, and that's really niche. You also might as well not be saying anything by saying Z has answers without listing them.

And why is Chansey the best imposter user? Because Imposter-Chansey carries over both her HP and Eviolite, which makes her so bulky almost nothing can beat her, which means it's gotten to the point where you have run imposterproof mons or you're done for. And before you say it's imposter copying setupmons and not chansey, then Quick-Powder-Ditto would not be PU.

IIRC Wobbuffet was originally ban suspect because he's not competitive at all due to how he works and how you can't switch properly. The Shadow-Tag ban came only in when Chandelure received it as Hidden ability, prompting the immediate ban which took Gothithelle and Wobbuffet out with it. Gothithelle as is is still a mon with an abysmal movepool (not as bad as Serperior but close), an awful speed base at 65 and awful bulk. Even if she makes it to 6 calm minds she only ever going to wall special mons, as everything running physical moves or unaware will kill her. And just for comparisons sake, a +6 Gothithelle Psychic does an enormous 43% max roll damage to a Blissey. And if she runs only Psyshock it's a whopping 64% max roll damage to a slowbro. And if she does run double psychic moves she has nothing to beat a Dark Mon.

Z has an enourmous array of answers. Every Physical sweeper with more than 100 ATK base ever, Every special sweeper with a super effective move against his proteaned type, Sigilyph, Clefable, Quagsire, he has no recovery whatsoever so he can be worn down, he can't switch into anything but Ghost attacks due to the likelyness of being killed by the next attack, the list goes on. There is a reason he's normally chilling in UU and it's not his damage output, but because running full stall teams has become so meta in this mode he arised to be problematic for those kinds of teams to deal with.
 
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mate i get you're new here and it's okay that you might not know proper etiquette about this, but the time to argue against a porygon-z ban was before it was banned, during the suspect test, when opinions on the ban were being officially solicited. not after, before. the community got together and looked at the meta without porygon-z and liked it better, so porygon-z is banned at least until the meta shifts enough to make that assessment irrelevant. not only has that not happened in the several days since the ban, but it's not going to happen because omotm is ending in a few days, and then it'll only be playable on side servers with like, maybe a dozen battles a day between the same few people, tops. the next time that the meta would even have the chance to shift is next time it gets omotm, which will be after sun & moon are implemented. grains of salt has already said that all of the meta's custom bans will be temporarily undone when that happens.

for better or worse, just because a ban may have been ill-advised doesn't mean that you can or should get it undone right away. just be patient, vote ei for omotm next time it's allowed, and you'll get your chance to run porygon-z.
 
So you're saying we should undo the porygon ban and make stall unplayable to fix regen? Why not just ban figi berry or whatever the regen item is? We banned porygon for a really good reason, and you can read through the last 5 pages of this thread to find out why instead of reviving a dead topic.
Nothing is getting banned, the suspect has definitely served it's purpose. Remember all of this will be undone by Sun and Moon's release.

On the topic of regenerator, I can see the problem. Regenerator cores can be much easier to make because you're not sacrificing the utility that abilities too stall. In my opinion there's three abilities that are a must on all stall team, Unaware, Magic Bounce and Regenerator. And I usually have two of each. In Enchanted items you can compress six of these abilities into three pokemon, leaving you open to use six other abilities, such as Intimidate, Prankster, Mold Breaker ect. Now the problem arises when I don't know how to directly deal with this, without changing the pace of the meta. Enchanted Items lacks wallbreakers, that's the problem. Stallbreakers are much easier to deal with when you're using something like Magic bounce + Regenerator Slowbro. With wallbreakers, it's a different situation.

Wallbreakers force stall to speed up, to take risks and grab momentum. If you're opponent has Porygon-Z and you're using stall you need to play aggressively and scout around so you don't get lured. You definitely don't automatically lose, but it keeps you on your toes. I must admit, I didn't actually want to address this before the end of the month, but yeah, lets address it.

It's too late to ban something now, I'm not going to quick-ban something. When I banned Porygon-Z and Manaphy I banned the best wallbreaker and the best stallbreaker. Since then EI has drastically slowed down. But this has told me that I'm probably not going to make this decision again.


TL;DR Regen is staying. Banning PZ and Manaphy weren't good decisions, unlikely to be suspected again after they were initially banned because they kept the metagame fast paced. Sorry we don't have time for another suspect!
 

sin(pi)

lucky n bad
And why is Chansey the best imposter user? Because Imposter-Chansey carries over both her HP and Eviolite, which makes her so bulky almost nothing can beat her, which means it's gotten to the point where you have run imposterproof mons or you're done for. And before you say it's imposter copying setupmons and not chansey, then Quick-Powder-Ditto would not be PU.

IIRC Wobbuffet was originally ban suspect because he's not competitive at all due to how he works and how you can't switch properly. The Shadow-Tag ban came only in when Chandelure received it as Hidden ability, prompting the immediate ban which took Gothithelle and Wobbuffet out with it. Gothithelle as is is still a mon with an abysmal movepool (not as bad as Serperior but close), an awful speed base at 65 and awful bulk. Even if she makes it to 6 calm minds she only ever going to wall special mons, as everything running physical moves or unaware will kill her. And just for comparisons sake, a +6 Gothithelle Psychic does an enormous 43% max roll damage to a Blissey. And if she runs only Psyshock it's a whopping 64% max roll damage to a slowbro. And if she does run double psychic moves she has nothing to beat a Dark Mon.

Z has an enourmous array of answers. Every Physical sweeper with more than 100 ATK base ever, Every special sweeper with a super effective move against his proteaned type, Sigilyph, Clefable, Quagsire, he has no recovery whatsoever so he can be worn down, he can't switch into anything but Ghost attacks due to the likelyness of being killed by the next attack, the list goes on. There is a reason he's normally chilling in UU and it's not his damage output, but because running full stall teams has become so meta in this mode he arised to be problematic for those kinds of teams to deal with.
(sorry, my post is completely off topic, but I wanted to clear up some of the things in this post which aren't true)
-Quick Powder doesn't work if Ditto is transformed, there's a reason why everyone uses Scarf.
-Chansey being good is not necessarily the same as stall being good. A LOT of teams in BH run Chansey because it's a great blanket check to most mons - this includes offence.
-Wobb (and Wynaut) was initially banned in ADV because of how Struggle and STag worked, it had the potential to cause endless battles in a Wobb vs Wobb matchup.
-It (they?) was retested and banned in DP for being "broken".
-I can't remember what happened with BW, but STag Chandelure was never released, so that was never a driving point behind Shadow Tag. Iirc Wobb and Goth were both legal throughout this gen.
-Gen 6 started off with all STag users unbanned (and Chandy is no longer one of them), and STag was only really brought up for suspect after the rise of ABR/bof/Goth stall, which was generally stall team of Chansey/Skarm/MSab/Goth/Quag/Amoong (some of the specific mons changed but the idea remained the same), which used TrickScarf Goth to trap/revenge stallbreakers like Manaphy and MHera, or other stall mons like blobs, quag, etc.
-Goth has a pretty amazing movepool for a trapper. It has Taunt, CM, Trick, Twave, and "okayish" coverage which is enough to do its job. It can PP stall Blissey/Chansey out of SToss PP with Taunt and Rest (it avoids the 3HKO) and then proceed to either set up on them or just let them die to Struggle recoil. No passive mon can reliably beat Taunt + Rest.
-Nitpicking, but P-Z technically does have recovery in the form of Recover. Whether it should run in is another matter entirely.


LightningEnex, if you want to discuss any of this or if you want to know where I got some of the information, etc, post on my wall so we don't clutter the thread :)
 

Also offtopic, but i feel like addressing Mega Medicham, which i believe to be a very underrated threat in EI. Like most people i just assumed Medi would be subpar in this meta, i mean why would you use Medi when you can use aerilate dragonite or speed boost excadrill and just run through teams, right? Not only that but the overall power in this meta is far greater than in OU so it's outsped and destroyed by a lot more things than it is in standard OU. Yet after testing i've found it much more potent than anticipated, which in my opinion is mainly because no one prepares for medi at all (unsurprising since i'm literally the only person ive ever seen use this mon).

The amount of times people switch in their skarm, lando-t or clef against this mon only to get 2HKOd or OHKOd by the right move after a little prior damage is absolutely absurd. When people play EI they seem to forget that this mon LITERALLY 2HKOs every single mon bar Mega Sableye and some bulky psychics. If you are unconvinced, just look at the recently shared replay between Ghoul King and Groudon-Attack. With the standard fakeout/hjk/tpunch/icepunch set Mega Medi puts immense pressure on both of their teams. Mandibuzz is 2HKOd, Zapdos is 2HKOd, Lando can be OHKO'd after rocks (i'm serious). Bro, hippo, rachi, all 2HKOd at full. The only potential answer is phys-def volcarona which avoids the 2HKO and can burn with flame body or wisp.
Also, Mega medi is no where near as useless against offense as one might think. First off it's access to fake out allows for some nice chipping against offensive threats and might be your last hope against a DD'd dragonite (something porygon lacked), but most importantly mega medicham preys ferociously against regen volturn cores that are very common on offensive teams (namely rotom-w and lando-t), meaning if you manage to get a free switch in on these mons you essentially get a free kill even against these offensive teams.

All in all, i'm not saying Mega medi is some godly broken threat that will get you easy wins, the only reason i've been having success with it is that literally no one prepares for it or sometimes even know how to fight it. Sure Aerilate dnite was pretty borked until people started adapting their teams and started running sand rush ttar and the like, this adaptation of teambuilding has not been applied to Mega Medi yet so it can be very effective. I'm sure that if it gets more popular people will start running Mews/Sableyes or other bulky mons or at least realize that switching your skarm in against medi is not a good idea lol. Anyway all i am saying is that if played correctly Mega Medi can provide immense pressure based on the current metagame trends.

I would personally place Mega Medi somewhere in the B rank, maybe B+?

#accidentalessay
 
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Something that I've actually seen, is regular Medicham with speed boost, fake out and baton pass. I think that's got some of the same advantages, since it also 2hkos skarm.

As for mega Medicham, do you run both ice punch and thunder punch?
Because both Slowbro and Lando-t are really common, and both could potentially be problematic.
 
Something that I've actually seen, is regular Medicham with speed boost, fake out and baton pass. I think that's got some of the same advantages, since it also 2hkos skarm.

As for mega Medicham, do you run both ice punch and thunder punch?
Because both Slowbro and Lando-t are really common, and both could potentially be problematic.
Yes, tpunch and ice punch are not only standard but i run them specifically for those 2 mons (there are other targets such as non-delta stream Zapdos but lando and bro are much more relevant imo, against most other mons you're just spamming hjk anyway). That regular medi set is flames btw
 
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Also offtopic, but i feel like addressing Mega Medicham, which i believe to be a very underrated threat in EI. Like most people i just assumed Medi would be subpar in this meta, i mean why would you use Medi when you can use aerilate dragonite or speed boost excadrill and just run through teams, right? Not only that but the overall power in this meta is far greater than in OU so it's outsped and destroyed by a lot more things than it is in standard OU. Yet after testing i've found it much more potent than anticipated, which in my opinion is mainly because no one prepares for medi at all (unsurprising since i'm literally the only person ive ever seen use this mon).

The amount of times people switch in their skarm, lando-t or clef against this mon only to get 2HKOd or OHKOd by the right move after a little prior damage is absolutely absurd. When people play EI they seem to forget that this mon LITERALLY 2HKOs every single mon bar Mega Sableye and some bulky psychics. If you are unconvinced, just look at the recently shared replay between Ghoul King and Groudon-Attack. With the standard fakeout/hjk/tpunch/icepunch set Mega Medi puts immense pressure on both of their teams. Mandibuzz is 2HKOd, Zapdos is 2HKOd, Lando can be OHKO'd after rocks (i'm serious). Bro, hippo, rachi, all 2HKOd at full. The only potential answer is phys-def volcarona which avoids the 2HKO and can burn with flame body or wisp.
Also, Mega medi is no where near as useless against offense as one might think. First off it's access to fake out allows for some nice chipping against offensive threats and might be your last hope against a DD'd dragonite (something porygon lacked), but most importantly mega medicham preys ferociously against regen volturn cores that are very common on offensive teams (namely rotom-w and lando-t), meaning if you manage to get a free switch in on these mons you essentially get a free kill even against these offensive teams.

All in all, i'm not saying Mega medi is some godly broken threat that will get you easy wins, the only reason i've been having success with it is that literally no one prepares for it or sometimes even know how to fight it. Sure Aerilate dnite was pretty borked until people started adapting their teams and started running sand rush ttar and the like, this adaptation of teambuilding has not been applied to Mega Medi yet so it can be very effective. I'm sure that if it gets more popular people will start running Mews/Sableyes or other bulky mons or at least realize that switching your skarm in against medi is not a good idea lol. Anyway all i am saying is that if played correctly Mega Medi can provide immense pressure based on the current metagame trends.

I would personally place Mega Medi somewhere in the B rank, maybe B+?

#accidentalessay
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 184-218 (46.7 - 55.3%) -- 71.1% chance to 2HKO

Usually, but not always. Also, some Slowbro run an Electric immunity, and Mega Medicham can't beat those ones at all.

Similarly, some Zapdos run Delta Stream, and that set can't beat those without Stealth Rock support. (High Jump Kick will almost always 2HKO Physically Defensive Zapdos if Stealth Rock is up, so it's not exactly a great switch-in to Mega Medicham though)

-1 252+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 308-364 (80.6 - 95.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

If it's Adamant, it can break even Physically Defensive Landorus-Therian in one hit with Stealth Rock support, 50% chance. If it's Jolly, it has no chance even with Stealth Rock support. As such, Physically Defensive Landorus-Therian can switch in to make some other switch-in safe a minimum of one time with smart play against your typical Jolly Mega Medicham.

252+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 170-201 (43.1 - 51%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO

Adamant Mega Medicham will, with the set you described, almost never break Physically Defensive Clefable. Since it's usually running Magic Guard, hazard support is irrelevant.

Then there's the Ghosts. Electric immunity Jellicent is a thing Stall runs sometimes, and the set you're describing is limited to ineffectual Ice Punches.

And while we're at it, I found that Porygon-Z was only under suspect test because a Protean-PZ is the only thing that completely counters Regenerator-tank-spam, as (which most people have noticed) Godwall Blissey can't quite tank 2 Psyshocks, which makes it the only mon that was viable in EI so far that can actually stallbreak this car crash of a strategy. Because normally, offensive (and I mean really offensive, not double regenerator offensive) teams have almost 0 problems with P-Z because it has no bulk and will die to a supereffective attack against it's proteaned type, and due to it's piss poor Speedbase of 90 gets outspeeded by everything you could remotely call a sweeper. But if you're only running slow double regenerator tanks who completely rely on your enemy not being able to power through both blissey and a phys tank, yeah you're in for a bad time. And technically, with the right predictions, even Slowbro-Blissey double regen can counter P-Z, since Slowbro will take less than regen damage from Psyshock and Blissey will take less than regen damage from Thunderbolt/Dark Pulse. But hey, one mispredict and you're done for, but that is how Pokemon should be. If you correctly predict your opponent 32 times in a row, yes you deserve to win. If you don't even remotely need any prediction power whatsoever to safely switch as your opponent will most likely lose more from switching because you're regenning from permanent switching, thats what I'd call a problem.
Porygon-Z has literally no switch-ins and even offense doesn't like facing it. If your team is made of literally nothing but 90+Speed Pokemon able to OHKO Porygon-Z, which isn't unusual for offense but isn't a given, then Porygon-Z isn't a problem for your team. If there's even a single Pokemon that either can't OHKO it or can't outspeed it, it coming in is basically something on your team dying bar godly prediction on your part.

Porygon-Z is a horror show.

I'm of mixed feeling about Regenerator in general but don't see much point in discussing the topic until Sun and Moon come along.
 
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 184-218 (46.7 - 55.3%) -- 71.1% chance to 2HKO

Usually, but not always. Also, some Slowbro run an Electric immunity, and Mega Medicham can't beat those ones at all.

Similarly, some Zapdos run Delta Stream, and that set can't beat those without Stealth Rock support. (High Jump Kick will almost always 2HKO Physically Defensive Zapdos if Stealth Rock is up, so it's not exactly a great switch-in to Mega Medicham though)

-1 252+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 308-364 (80.6 - 95.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

If it's Adamant, it can break even Physically Defensive Landorus-Therian in one hit with Stealth Rock support, 50% chance. If it's Jolly, it has no chance even with Stealth Rock support. As such, Physically Defensive Landorus-Therian can switch in to make some other switch-in safe a minimum of one time with smart play against your typical Jolly Mega Medicham.

252+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 170-201 (43.1 - 51%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO

Adamant Mega Medicham will, with the set you described, almost never break Physically Defensive Clefable. Since it's usually running Magic Guard, hazard support is irrelevant.

Then there's the Ghosts. Electric immunity Jellicent is a thing Stall runs sometimes, and the set you're describing is limited to ineffectual Ice Punches.



Porygon-Z has literally no switch-ins and even offense doesn't like facing it. If your team is made of literally nothing but 90+Speed Pokemon able to OHKO Porygon-Z, which isn't unusual for offense but isn't a given, then Porygon-Z isn't a problem for your team. If there's even a single Pokemon that either can't OHKO it or can't outspeed it, it coming in is basically something on your team dying bar godly prediction on your part.

Porygon-Z is a horror show.

I'm of mixed feeling about Regenerator in general but don't see much point in discussing the topic until Sun and Moon come along.
Huh, i could have sworn physdef clef was reliably 2HKOd by hjk, my bad. Adamant Medicham is almost always the preferred nature so you can break non-volt absorb bro. Other than that the checks/counters you provided were legitimate and i have indeed encountered volt absorb jelly before. Not only that but many of the bulky mons medi is supposed to check (such as bro, rotom, etc) can use intimidate to severely limit medi's effectiveness, although to be fair they will be forfeiting MG or regenerator which will make them weak to hazards and make it much easier for the rest of the team to take down.

Haven't really stated my opinion on regenerator yet, in short i agree with LightningEnex's post. Judging by that replay and past experiences with regen it clearly seems unhealthy to me. I suggest a regenerator clause limiting regen to 1 mon per team, or limit regen to those which get it naturally.
 
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After battling PokeaimMD, hopefully being featured in his video and reaching a respectable rank on the EI ladder, and the fact that EI in the state it's currently in will no longer be relevant, i feel i have accomplished all i could have wanted on the ladder. I haven't reached the top of the ladder yet but at this point it's basically impossible since most of my victories only give me like 9 points and it's a long wait between battles. So i guess i'll share my dank ass team with you all. Enjoy :]
dont forget 2 wipe (Landorus-Therian) @ Figy Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 8 SpD / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- U-turn
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock

not broken at all (Dragonite) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 144 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 108 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Facade
- Dragon Dance
- Roost

Shadow Clefable (Gengar) @ Adamant Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hypnosis
- Substitute
- Hex
- Focus Blast

the table (Avalugg) (F) @ Snowball
Ability: Sturdy
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 44 Def / 216 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Avalanche
- Mirror Coat
- Rapid Spin
- Recover

mc hammer (Medicham) @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- High Jump Kick
- Ice Punch
- Thunder Punch

ya boy pink nuts (Klefki) (M) @ Wacan Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 52 Atk / 208 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Magnet Rise
- Play Rough

My team wasn't carefully curated or anything, i just threw in a bunch of mons that i liked and adjusted their evs and movesets to form some kind of synergy. I originally had Victreebel in my lando slot until i realized that victreebel didn't do much and how much more useful lando was for this team. It had rocks, it was a dnite check (can't have too many of those) and physical attacker check in general, an electric check, and most importantly provided u-turn support so i could bring in my powerful threats with relative ease. Regen lando is such a splashable mon and deserves its spot in S rank imo. Wasn't sure about the optimum spread so i just stole it from the xy strategy dex lmao.

Moving on to my personal favourite Pokemon (i'm not kidding btw), Klefki. Spikes stacking is such a fun playstyle, couple that with lando's rock support and the opponent will rack up damage very quickly if they don't remove it. With mold breaker Klefki can set prankster spikes with impunity. For my team Klefki is the mon that kind of glues the whole team together nicely, with prankster twave it can check kabutops which is otherwise very frustrating for my team and thunder wave supports gengar and medicham by boosting hex and in general making threats easy to deal with, and with 52 attack evs play rough will always break gengar's sub, making Klefki a great switch-in to sub-hypnosis gengar which is also incredibly troubling for my team - without Klefki all i can really do is revenge with dnite or risk the tie with my own gengar, not only that but Gengar is a common mon that heavily pressures medicham with the possibility of a hjk miss, my team needs opposing Gengars gone ASAP. I originally had magic coat in place of magnet rise to further troll opposing gengars, but in the end i found it too situational and being able to set spikes versus opposing landos is much cooler imo (yes i know magic bounce klefki is a MUCH better check to gengar but i'm super paranoid about opposing mb users reflecting my spikes sooo).

Gengar is my speed control outside of dnite and klefki. Sub hypnosis gengar is a great check to bisharp which also happens to otherwise run through my team, it's also my only special attacker. Sub hypnosis puts so much pressure against opposing teams it's really fun. You can run shadow ball over hex if you want but in all honesty hex is just so much more powerful, it's basically a ghost draco meteor without the spa drop, and thanks to Klefki's thunder wave support Gengar can spam hex much more freely. Not much more to say tbh, it's an awesome special attacker that has some neat resistances/immunities and can temporarily put foes out of commission. Moving on.

Avalugg, although i love Avalugg it's not the most impressive Pokemon, and you won't see it do much in a lot of games aside from walling dnite and weavile to hell and back and spinning away hazards. Still Avalugg is definitely useful and i can't think of a better mon for this teamslot. Because i have a dnite on my team i very much want hazard removal, but defog is counter-intuitive due to the whole spikes-stacking thing, so i wanted a spinner that checks Dnite and can obliterate special attacking threats in a last ditch effort (think +6 Clefable). If anyone can think of a mon that can do this better than Avalugg then feel free to suggest it. The evs make sure that Avalugg will always a survive an espeed crit + superpower at full from dnite and recover off the damage, dump the rest into spd so Avalugg doesn't die to like, bubble. It's defense is already astronomical anyway (95hp 184 def how is this not uber).

Now onto the powerhouses, Facade Dragonite and Mega Medicham. These two are the stars of the show. Facade Dragonite is in my honest opinion the most broken Pokemon in the entire tier, it almost deserves a separate post detailing how broken it is. At first it may seem weird to carry no coverage and use just dnite's STABS, but when you realize the fact that facade OHKOs things like offensive heatran at +2 and physdef skarm at +4 (after rocks) you realize you literally have no need for coverage. The most beautiful thing about facade dragonite is that it literally switches in and sets up on it's counters. Slowbro? Setup fodder. Rotom-W? Setup fodder. Heatran? Setup fodder. Suicune? Setup fodder. Alomomola? Setup fodder. I have 6-0'd so many teams with just facade dragonite it's almost comical. You're only hope of stopping this monster once it gets going is unaware steels/electrics (and based Avalugg of course ;] ). The only downside is that you need to setup with dragonite before it can dish out some real hurt, and if the opponent doesn't use status as their dnite check but rather things like ttar, weavile or lando, then it may not do much until later on. This where Mega Medicham comes in, Medicham's immediate power allows it dish out lots of hurt from the get-go, absolutely demolishing the only things that come close to checking dragonite. Lando? tar? skarm? zapdos? bro with ice beam? avalugg? tran? All obliterated by Medicham, at least on the switch anyway. Medicham also annihilates Mandibuzz which checks gengar (once something else has been put to sleep) and can be potentially dangerous for dnite (foul play). With hazard support nothing short of Sableye, Cresselia, Cofagrigus, jelly etc can safely switch into Medicham AT ALL.
Anyway, 108 speed evs on dnite allows it to outspeed max jolly garchomp at +1, and max adamant ttar at +2 (don't run jolly sand rush tar its bad), 252 attack adamant to dish out maximum hurt, and dump the rest into defenses.
After reading that essay i know you're brain is cheesed out, so let me rejuvenate your interest with some replays fam:
The first replay is my favourite of the bunch, it shows the effectiveness of Klefki vs Gengar and features some cool plays on my behalf as i pull a nice comeback after getting bodied at the beginning of the battle (tfw hjk miss -_-).
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/enchanteditems-408190011

This replay is nice cuz everyone put in work and even Klefki got a clutch kill :3
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/enchanteditems-408481611

Just replays of dnite demolishing teams, nothing too special:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/enchanteditems-408163134
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/enchanteditems-408200755
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/enchanteditems-408485816
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/enchanteditems-408208626

These ones show off how nice Medicham can be:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/enchanteditems-408169906
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/enchanteditems-408267516
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/enchanteditems-408477117
^^dnite should have outsped thundy but i used the wrong evs >:(

A cool replay where Gengar puts in a lot of work:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/enchanteditems-408212636

There have been a few battles where a setup sweeper like Clefable gets up to +6 and get destroyed by Avalugg mirror coat but i forgot to save the replays :(
Threats to this team include but aren't limited to: Clefable, Gengar, Kabutops, Bisharp, and a few others i'm forgetting.
I've really enjoyed this ladder, as some of you may know i took a long break from Pokemon because in all honesty i just wasn't having fun, hard to explain why, but anyway I have to thank Grains of Salt for creating this fun meta and in turn helping me rediscover how ridiculously fun this server can be :3

these hide commands are fiddly as fuck ffs
 
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