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Evasion: Hit or Miss?

darknessmalice said:
Taunt and pHazers will take care of these easily. Admittely though, Hippowdon and Skarmory may not enjoy taking a Crocune Surf.

Perhaps an easier method, and one that many teams can do, is to take advantage of Crocune's and Crotomb's slow set up, and send in a pokemon will faster set up e.g. Salamence, Gyarados, SD Scizor. Alternatively, I could just send in a hard hitter that will deal damage more quickly than Crocune/Crotomb can heal off e.g. CB Tyranitar (who won't take enough damage from Suicune), Salamence.

As well, you can also bring their HPs down to low, and send in a pokemon that can finish them off as they spam their CMs, even if that pokemon wouldn't be able to swap into a boosted Surf/Dark Pulse e.g. Lucario (though he can take Spiritomb's Dark Pulse).
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Imagine the same strategy, except you miss when you try to finish them off due to Double Team. Sounds fun?
 
It should be noted that after one DT, Roar and Whirlwind can miss. Therefore, saying phazers deal with DT is not strictly true.
 
Objection said:
It should be noted that after one DT, Roar and Whirlwind can miss. Therefore, saying phazers deal with DT is not strictly true.
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Taunt can too, same with Mind Reader. The only thing that keeps its accuracy is anything No Guard Machamp uses and anything used against him iirc.
 
blasphemy1 said:
Imagine the same strategy, except you miss when you try to finish them off due to Double Team. Sounds fun?
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Well, with two DTs (one as I switch in the pHazer, one as I use pHaze), I have a 60% chance of hitting with Roar/Whirlwind. Not quite accurate, but it's more reliable than using DT as an attempt to wall a team. Same goes more strongly with Taunt, Leech Seed etc.


blasphemy1 said:
Taunt can too, same with Mind Reader. The only thing that keeps its accuracy is anything No Guard Machamp uses and anything used against him iirc.
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Aerial Ace was mentioned, though it's only ever seen on Gliscor, and it's still rarely seen on him. Perish Song is probably the best counter to DT - it forces a switch. Aura Sphere also works (Lucario and Togekiss).
 
darknessmalice said:
Well, with two DTs (one as I switch in the pHazer, one as I use pHaze), I have a 60% chance of hitting with Roar/Whirlwind. Not quite accurate, but it's more reliable than using DT as an attempt to wall a team. Same goes more strongly with Taunt, Leech Seed etc.
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Taunt prevents Phazing and Taunt, so if the DTer is faster(fairly likely), then even Taunt will fail. Obviously Roar/Whirlwind fail no matter how slow it is, as long as it has Taunt.


Aerial Ace was mentioned, though it's only ever seen on Gliscor, and it's still rarely seen on him. Perish Song is probably the best counter to DT - it forces a switch. Aura Sphere also works (Lucario and Togekiss).
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Let's be honest, when is Gliscor going to do a lot of damage with Aerial Ace to good canidiates for DT? Gliscor, Spiritomb/Dusknoir, Skarmory, etc. don't care about it, that is for sure. Most people won't consider using Specs Luke simply to stop DT Skarm, especially when the other prime examples of good DTers resist/are immune to the move. Perish Song can be Taunted, and unless you like sacrificing your bulk in order to outspeed Jolly Gliscor-the fastest Perish Songer is Celebi IIRC.

I guess I neglected to look over the other options, although they are lesser which is why I didn't even speak of them(probably should have rephrased my post), IMO No Guard Machamp would be the best way to get rid of a DTer, since it can hurt them pretty badly (DynamicPunch for Skarmory, Ice Punch for Gliscor, Payback for Dusknoir).
 
blasphemy1 said:
Taunt prevents Phazing and Taunt, so if the DTer is faster(fairly likely), then even Taunt will fail. Obviously Roar/Whirlwind fail no matter how slow it is, as long as it has Taunt.


Let's be honest, when is Gliscor going to do a lot of damage with Aerial Ace to good canidiates for DT? Gliscor, Spiritomb/Dusknoir, Skarmory,
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None of those things are fast.

A chance to avoid being hit is not worth two moveslots.
 
Relictivity said:
You misunderstood. I was just proving that a pokemoon with only one attack move could be a threat. Interestingly, if there were not so many steels, I bet there would be CroLatias. Lol. Besides, with Double team, there isn't a "set" you can run, you choose the gimmick that works best for you, and has good synergy with your team.
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i know pokemon with only one attack can be a threat. thats because they use boosting moves like calm mind which increases their spattack and spdefense at the same time. unlike double team which only increases evasion
 
Relictivity said:
You misunderstood. I was just proving that a pokemoon with only one attack move could be a threat. Interestingly, if there were not so many steels, I bet there would be CroLatias. Lol. Besides, with Double team, there isn't a "set" you can run, you choose the gimmick that works best for you, and has good synergy with your team.
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There IS a "Cro-latias", only instead of RestTalk, it generally opts for Recover+Refresh. Honestly, CroLatias seems like a better choice than Crocune, as there are Pokemon that can 100% wall just water attacking, while steels can eventually fall to a +6 Dragon Pulse.
 
the_artic_one said:
How would a pre-Taunt work? Smart players tend to switch when they get taunted.
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Thus allowing those entry hazards go to work, as well as obtaining yet another DT. Besides, only so many pokemon can viably run Taunt, so if they pre-Taunt on your Gliscor/Aerodactyl/Azelf, then they can DT as you switch, as it is unlikely that a team would carry more than one Taunter.

Skarmory's base 70 speed seems to be underestimated, and with a Jolly nature 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe you are looking at 334 HP / 317 Def / 262 Spe, still very, very solid, especially since this wouldn't be focusing on entry hazards, but DT, so it's survability increases even more. You could probably even go Impish since Skarmory still outruns Adamant Tyranitar, although you lose against most defensive base 100s like Celebi and Zapdos.

Gliscor is quite fast, and doesn't care about those faster Taunters, with the exception of Weavile, who is too frail to not be leading with Taunt.

Umm, Cro-Latias is pro, although I don't really think that is what it would be called since I believe CroCune was based off a member's name IIRC. Either way, Refresh/Substitute(I prefer the latter) shut down Blissey, although Substitute falls to Seismic Toss. Still, Substitute is useful for scouting those Scarfed Heatrans who throw Dragon Pulses your way, as you CM until they can't break your Sub. It also prevents random Explosions from ruining your sweep.
 
blasphemy1 said:
Thus allowing those entry hazards go to work, as well as obtaining yet another DT. Besides, only so many pokemon can viably run Taunt, so if they pre-Taunt on your Gliscor/Aerodactyl/Azelf, then they can DT as you switch, as it is unlikely that a team would carry more than one Taunter.
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Pre taunt means you taunt with another pokemon meaning that you don't get a DT.
 
the_artic_one said:
Pre taunt means you taunt with another pokemon meaning that you don't get a DT.
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Erm... this Pre-Taunt is made with the assumption you know what their Taunter is, and that they only have 1 of them. You get 2 entry hazard damages (Suggested Stealth Rock for Flyers and T-Spikes for Groundeds but really, most anything works), a switch, a free switch in of your double teamer, and a turn to Double Team while they are forced to switch in their Taunter. But I dunno. I wouldn't plan things to work perfectly, but then again, I wouldn't expect things to work perfectly for my opponent either.

Cool thing about the Recover/Refresh Latias. I suppose T-Tar and Scizor really limit it's effectiveness though :(. Otherwise I would run it.
 
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