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Excadrill

^It's mainly for opposing Excadrills. It also makes an easier switch-ins. The max speed is there so opposing Excadrills, who will be running max speed for the same reason, won't outspeed you.
 
Rather than bring the match down to a 50/50 chance of winning, I'd rather just switch my own Excadrill out at all times and into a counter. You won't be able to outspeed enemy Excadrill if you're all running the same speed. I can understand how the balloon makes switching in easier though, as aside from the rare fire fang Gliscor and Hippowdon(!!), the only other coverage move most pokemon with earthqauke will be using is stone edge. As Dory isn't exactly bulky, I don't think EQ is the only thing you need to be worried about. The balloon may end up popping on the switch in anyway.
 
Balloon actually makes excadrill a lot more dangerous if you play smart. It gives it a ground immunity for free switch ins and immunity to spikes. With a 4x SR resist, it means that excadrill can find opportunities to come in for free a lot of the time without getting slowly worn down. At full HP, it can survive a mach punch from most things (not LO techniloom though) and if that's their only check then they're pretty screwed.
 
With balloon, Dory can set up on almost any offensive pokemon without close combat, since most physical pokemon carry either a fighting move or EQ to hit steels, but never both. And the list of EQ users is pretty long.
 
Honestly Dory with balloon isn't up for ban before some split of swift swim/drizzle?

REALLY?

This thing is so irritating- I honestly don't even bother with ground moves on it anymore, I just switch so it can get a swords dance and win the game. OR I use EQ, it swords dances and I then lose the game. Just the thought of it having balloon is enough to make it basically have an immunity to ground as the risk is too high.

It's like yachechomp all over again, I fucking swear
 
Use Lefties Dory when your on it.
No really, its good if your wanting a spinner that can sweep and revenge kill in same place
 
astrohawke said:
Balloon actually makes excadrill a lot more dangerous if you play smart. It gives it a ground immunity for free switch ins and immunity to spikes. With a 4x SR resist, it means that excadrill can find opportunities to come in for free a lot of the time without getting slowly worn down. At full HP, it can survive a mach punch from most things (not LO techniloom though) and if that's their only check then they're pretty screwed.
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I didn't take into consideration the balloon ignoring spikes damage. That's actually not bad at all. Setting up is also easier I guess and free switch ins are appreciated. Still though, the balloon (when running jolly) weakens you to the point where you end up getting revenged by things like bulky Torterra. Yes, yes, no one uses torterra (aside from JSND) but still. The added power is appreciated.
 
has anyone tried sand power instead of sand strength...i mean sand strength sure seems superior but actually sand power might be useful...for a more hard-hitting set or for a band or scarf set maybe?
 
ironman said:
has anyone tried sand power instead of sand strength...i mean sand strength sure seems superior but actually sand power might be useful...for a more hard-hitting set or for a band or scarf set maybe?
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I think in Sand Power's case, it's simply one of those abilities that works better on other pokemon - yes Landlos obviously, but even those that get it in the DW might use it better. Plus as far as "not using Sand Throw on Doryuuzu" goes, people generally prefer Mold Breaker (that's DW, though).
Plus it's only a bonus of 1.3x - it's decent but not great, and of course it's only going to be useful on Earthquake and Rock Slide (no Stone Edge is an issue) - Dory's Steel moves are not worth using.

Seems you're better off using Sand Throw and Swords Dance, as you're instantly doubling the power of all your moves, not just slightly raising the power of two moves and being slow whilst you're at it. You could try it with Choice Items, I guess, but there surely should be better substitutes at that point.
 
ironman said:
has anyone tried sand power instead of sand strength...i mean sand strength sure seems superior but actually sand power might be useful...for a more hard-hitting set or for a band or scarf set maybe?
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The trouble with Sand Power + Scarf is that you get a 30% boost to (some) attacks and a 50% boost to speed, whereas Sand Rush + Band gives you a 50% boost to attack and a 100% boost to speed. In essence, Sand Rush will almost always outclass Sand Power as a 100% speed boost always outweighs a 30% EQ/RSlide boost.

The only time I could see Sand Power being used is:
a) on a Trick Room team - for which I think Rhyperior is better suited,
b) when your team has a major issue with stall (and needs that 30% power boost), but is absolutely safe against offense - which I think would be exceedingly rare.
c) when you want to net surprise KOs on defensive switch-ins
 
If you're going to try using a Choice item, then it has to be Band. With Scarf+Power, you have 1.5x Speed and 1.3x "Attack"; with Band+Rush, it's 2x Speed and 1.5x "Attack". If you really want to use Sand Power, then go with Choice Band so it's a 1.95x "Attack" boost from the get-go... with no Speed.
 
What about a Sandstorm + Trick Room, Sand Power, Life Orb, Brave, max Attack, max HP, Excadrill?

Something like:

*Insert witty set nickname here*
Excadrill@Life Orb
Narure: Brave
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
IVs: 0 Spe
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
-X-Scissor/ Shadow Claw
-Brick Break

I didn't put SD since with the limits of TR there isn't much time to set up.
 
alphatron said:
Anyway, adamant Excadrill>Jolly Excadrill at all times.
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Apart from speed tying enemy Excadrill, there's also the corner case of stuff like +2 speed Kingdra and Nidoking, who outspeed Adamant but not Jolly (in the sand, obviously).

Nidokingdra. Kingdratini. Dratinidoking. Nidokingdratini?

This thing is so irritating- I honestly don't even bother with ground moves on it anymore, I just switch so it can get a swords dance and win the game. OR I use EQ, it swords dances and I then lose the game. Just the thought of it having balloon is enough to make it basically have an immunity to ground as the risk is too high.
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You've really never noticed that the game informs you whenever an enemy Pokémon has a balloon?
 
I don't know if this has been discussed yet, but the idea suddenly popped in my head that a bulky Flygon is actually a great counter to this beast. +2 X-scissor is a 3HKO and +2 Return is barely a 2HKO. On the other side, Fire Blast is an easy OHKO without investment.

Yes, Gliscor generally does the job better, except that it has to use EQ to OHKO Excadrill who might have Balloon and it can't safely Roost without getting hit by EQ. Resistances to rock and fire and neutrality to water are the other advantages Flygon has.
 
A defensive Gliscor doesn't have to worry about anything from Excadrill, unless it ever finds itself well below half its HP. All it has to do is use a random attack into EQ and he's done for. Balloon has no hope of getting past it.

Defensive Flygon is a dubious endeavor at best. I don't see it doing anything besides countering Excadrill, which is a problem a lot of us concern ourselves with. The ability to counter and viability have to work in tandem.
 
You better check if fire blast without EV really OHKO
PLEASE . Doryuuzu is quite bulky for such a dang fast low base stats sweeper.
I mean flygon wont even OHKO skarm which is frailer than dory with Fire Blast !!!!

Unboosted 252 SpA MODEST scarf Flygon Fire BLAST
81.4% - 96.4%

Yeah stop that bullshit. He wont OHKO even with retarded Spread like that
EVEN mence uninvested Blast Wont OHKO

Neutral NO LO Fire Blast
73.7% - 87%

Garchomp FIRE BLAST IN THE SUN with neutral uninvested
84.8% - 99.7%

Some Calcs
Virizion Close Combat without attack EV neutral
83.1% - 98.1%
Kobaruon uninvested Holy Sword
74.8% - 88.1%

Wow hes quite bulky
 
I don't get why you'd bother trying to make a bulky dorryuuzu, since if you really wanted something bulkier you'd just use Sandslash (in DW).

Yeah, I went there.
 
Oops. Had it calculated with +2. Sorry. EQ OHKOs on average at least.

Flygon has an easier time switching into T-Tar, Tentacruel and Heatran, so it's not totally outclassed by Gliscor.
 
Well i am playing on non DW ladder. Also dory when used with bulky spread dont affect its speed too much which make him able to act as revenge killer. If im in DW i use both maybe. Slash for spinning purposes.
And dory dont get insta killed by surf from defensive water which is a plus and it has Toxicmunity. Thats good enough reason

Otherwise slash is better overall MAYBE(i havent test him. I wanted too but dont have time)
 
JSND said:
And dory dont get insta killed by surf from defensive water which is a plus and it has Toxicmunity. Thats good enough reason.
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in my opinion dory wouldn't have been such an important part of the game if it didn't have immunity to poison and thunder wave...i believe this is the second dory's(or excadrill's) main selling point as a sweeper after its great ability...
 
Bulky Flygon can work, but it has to be at near perfect health to do it assuming this spread:

Flygon@Leftovers
Jolly; 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 Spe

Roost
Substitute
Earthquake
Dragon Tail

I'm not particularly advocating this set, but it makes Flygon useful in general while not being totally outclassed by bulky Garchomp. I personally have it outrunning Adamant Lucario, but you can make it bulkier if you want. Dragon Tail lets it phaze if you are running Spikes (and breaks the balloon on Dory), Earthquake is for STAB, and SubRoost is to help Flygon stall should you have Toxic or something.

If it comes in on the SD, it can Dragon Tail to pop the balloon and force Dory out, and has a small chance of surviving the follow-up +2 X-Scissor (it increases with more defense EVs, obviously.
 
Sand Power Dory sounds great in a trick room until you realize that you could also be using Sand Power Gigalith. He's bulkier, has the same attack stat, gets Stone edge, doesn't get outrun by Bronzong and Reuniclus, and probably isn't countered by Gliscor.

While adamant Dory is outsped by certain +2 pokemon that jolly dory isn't, I would still would use adamant. Pokemon such as Kingdra need at least two turns to beat adamant excadrill. Pokemon like Terakion and Landorus will be doing it in one turn regardless of nature.

While gravity is seen as a gimmick, has anyone else tried running Dory alongside gravity support? It makes the pokemon who would otherwise try to counter you if you were healthy mere fodder. The rotom forms can no longer touch you. Bronzong is no longer switching in. Skarmory can't even try to phase. Balloon magnezone, heatran, and terakion are all smacked down. I personally used a mew and one other pokemon to set up gravity while running a utility role and the results were always positive. Usually, my opponents would avoid switching in their gravity crippled Dory counter and lose around 2-3 pokemon before gravity ended. But it still forces them into a corner. Obviously you don't want to end up doing this if your opponent has their own Dory, for reasons I need not mention.
 
Balloon works both ways. As such, Balloon Heatran is a damn good switch into Excadrill, since it has to pop the balloon while you Fire Blast for an easy KO. And it really isn't hard to either bait an EQ or switch in on a SD. Plus, Team Preview doesn't show that you have balloon.

True, relying on a an item isn't the best definition of a counter, but he's still highly viable.

Personally, I hope sand teams always run balloon Jolly as it makes walling it with Gliscor and friends much easier. If I were to use an Excadrill I would certainly run Adamant and just let something else counter Excadrill.
 
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