Metagame Fortemons

Just some random thoughts and questions:

Knock Off: Would it cause all moves to remove items and get 1.5x power as they do? If so this is very strong and worth looking out for, probably broken? (edit: apparently I can't read)
Nuzzle: If Zap Cannon is banned this should likely be as well as it has guaranteed paralysis, although it does have worse distribution
Fell Stinger: you now have Super Moxie. Again this is good on paper but limited by poor distibution
Flying Press: All moves have built in flying effectiveness, could get confusing
Fusion Bolt/Flare: Doubles in power if used after the other one. You would use one as an item and the other in your moveset. After you use your Fusion move, your next move is doubled in power, including the Fusion move itself. Seems like it has a lot of potential, although only Victini can use this of course.
Beak Blast: Limited only to Toucannon but seems like a decent answer to physical priority spammers
Storm Throw/Frost Breath: Basically a free 1.5x damage on all your attacks, as they will now always crit.
Rollout/Ice Ball: This move doubles in power each turn but forces you to use it. Seems completely busted if you use it with a high power move with no immunities.
Future Sight/Doom Desire: Now this just seems fun. You need to be constantly thinking two turns ahead to make this work.
Other moves with variable power: It would be good to explain whether Gyro Ball/Electro Ball/Flail/Reversal/Return/Frustration etc. can be used, and how they would work if they can.

How would Trick/Switcheroo/item switching in general work? Can the move-items be traded between Pokemon or Knocked Off? If so passing a debilitating move to an opponent can be a viable strategy. For instance you can use Hoopa-U to Trick Hyperspace Fury to an opponent, which only works if you are Hoopa-U, therefore completely incapacitating it. Or you can trick Hyper Beam, forcing the target to always rest after attacking, or Sucker Punch, making them only able to attack if you are, limiting them completely. Or Last Resort from Klutz Lopunny, basically locking them from doing anything. I could go on, there are other moves that can only be used under certain conditions and completely screw over an opponent.
 
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He's not the only one with trapping :3

Toxapex @ Infestation
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic / Toxic Spikes
- Recover
- Scald
- Haze

This is a cancer set I just thought of! Trap them, Toxic them, and sit back and watch 12%+Toxic damage murder them. Haze if they try to set up etc. This set ofc has the problems move trapping always has (you likely trap counters that switched in on you instead of the thing you switched in on) but otherwise this would be hella broken.
If you're trying to Toxic stall, you probably shouldn't have Scald as your only trapping move.

Speaking of Toxic, Sharpedo-Mega/Tyrantrum/Bruxish can use Poison Fang to give all their attacks a 50% power boost and a 50% chance of badly poisoning anything that lives (which isn't much if you're using banded head smash Tyrantrum).

252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 576-678 (168.9 - 198.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Edit: Forgot that the attack uses up the item slot - neither Mega Sharpedo nor banded Tyrantrum would have room for Poison Fang. A Dragon Dance set on Tyrantrum might still have potential though.

Tyrantrum @ Poison Fang
Ability: Strong Jaw
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
 
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Zeraora is released so why not make a set for that
Zeraora @ Volt Switch/Drain Punch
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Fake Out
- Superpower
- Grass Knot/Hp Ice
It could also run Quick Attack but does it really need that with so much speed
Questions:
Will low kick/Grass knot as an item boost moves depending on the opponent’s weight?
This meta looks super lit and if I have time maybe I’ll put some work into some more sets.
 
Chatot op?

Chatot @ Chatter
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Boomburst
- Heat Wave
- Nasty Plot / Roost
- Substitute / Roost

Confuse and Destroy anyone that stands in your way with STAB Boomburst and nasty plot.
 
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Just some random thoughts and questions:

Knock Off: Would it cause all moves to remove items and get 1.5x power as they do? If so this is very strong and worth looking out for, probably broken?

How would Trick/Switcheroo/item switching in general work? Can the move-items be traded between Pokemon or Knocked Off? If so passing a debilitating move to an opponent can be a viable strategy. For instance you can use Hoopa-U to Trick Hyperspace Fury to an opponent, which only works if you are Hoopa-U, therefore completely incapacitating it. Or you can trick Hyper Beam, forcing the target to always rest after attacking, or Sucker Punch, making them only able to attack if you are, limiting them completely. Or Last Resort from Klutz Lopunny, basically locking them from doing anything. I could go on, there are other moves that can only be used under certain conditions and completely screw over an opponent.
Q+A
Q+A: (taken from the metagame workshop)

How does Knock Off work?
-Itemized moves cant be knocked off or removed in any way such as Trick or Fling. So Knock Off would be a constant 65BP.
 
first off, the OP forgot to ban Metal Burst

second off, I really hate toxic spikes so here's a set to sow fear in tspike users across the globe


Ursaring @ Facade
Ability: Quick Feet
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Close Combat
- Return
- Stone Edge
It's kinda difficult to activate this but if you do you can do a LOT of damage. Good lord.
In fact, it seems Facade is a great tech item to put on almost anything to just completely kick TSpikes and status sets out of the meta.

third off, are you allowed to put a move in the item slot and on the moveset at the same time?

fourth o - ok I'll stop doing that, but as an alternative to the scarf lele shown on the first page you can do a nice bulky set


Tapu Lele @ Draining Kiss
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Moonblast
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Shadow Ball
Very tanky thanks to all the lifesteal and any grounded priority item user is just forced out as soon as it comes in.

Oh, and speaking of draining kiss...


Comfey @ Draining Kiss
Ability: Triage
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dazzling Gleam
- Giga Drain
- Calm Mind
- Synthesis
Giga Drain heals for 150% of the damage it deals, and Dazzling Gleam heals a lot too. They also both have priority. The trick here is to avoid Heatran at all costs.

And finally, how to really annoy everyone:


Greninja @ U-Turn
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Hydro Cannon
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Shadow Sneak
You can run the Ash version if you want but this is just funny. Hydro Cannon is a very powerful version of U-Turn, Shadow Sneak is a priority switchout, and then you've just got some other standard attacks.
 
Ok, I'm super excited about this meta so I made a team even though it isn't playable or established yet.


Araquanid @ Lunge
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Sticky Web
- Liquidation
- Leech Life
- Mirror Coat

First, I'm thinking Speed Control is going to be important in this meta so I want a bulky sticky web user. With every attack lowering the opponent's Atk, it can effectively defend against both Physical and Special attackers. Leech Life is a decent form of recovery, and Mirror Coat can take out boosted special threats. EVs probably could be better, but I'm not great at that sort of thing. They maximise SpD because of Lunge providing a sort of defense boost. Water Bubble gives liquidation great damage output, and also allows Araquanid to switch into fire type attacks for the 3 fire-weak members of the team.


Zygarde @ Thousand Waves
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Extreme Speed
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute

Zygarde is going to be good in this Meta, just like every OM. It can get behind a substitute when it switches in on a threat, set up, and trap and kill many enemy pokemon. Espeed is there to prevent revenge killing and give a priority trapping move, and Tarrows is still a good STAB move. Classic EVs to improve Atk and Spe.


Magearna @ Volt Switch
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fleur Cannon
- Flash Cannon
- Aura Sphere
- Thunderbolt

This is the sample set from the intro. I thought it could provide a nice pivot that is very hard to switch into, and you can switch into Zygarde or Lele depending on the situation.


Tapu Lele @ Draining Kiss
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- Taunt
- Focus Blast

An interesting set allowing for Tapu Lele to do great damage while still recovering lots of health. Taunt is if you predict your opponent is going to use Status or try to set up. Priority control is definitely going to be a major part of this meta, and Tapu Lele gives it in the best way. Just don't forget about the terrain when trying to use Espeed on Zygarde. Classic coverage and STAB for the moveset.


Cryogonal @ Rapid Spin
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Ice Beam
- Freeze-Dry
- Toxic
- Recover

This may seem like a weird choice, but it provides a few things I thought my team needed. It's mainly a form of hazard removal, providing a fast rapid spin that can't be blocked. It can also act as a hazard spreader, using recover to stall out the turns. Ice beam is a more powerful attack than Freeze-Dry, but it doesn't really need any other moves so Freeze-Dry is good for water types.


Celesteela @ Absorb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 104 Def / 156 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Heavy Slam
- Flamethrower

Celesteela acts as a secondary Steel-type check that can drain large amounts of health from the opponent using Leech Seed and Heavy Slam with Absorb as an item. It's just standard OU Celesteela but absorb provides slightly better recovery than leftovers.
Araquanid @ lunge
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Sticky Web
- Liquidation
- Magic Coat
- Mirror Coat

Zygarde @ thousandwaves
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Extreme Speed
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute

Magearna @ voltswitch
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fleur Cannon
- Flash Cannon
- Aura Sphere
- Thunderbolt

Tapu Lele @ drainingkiss
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- Taunt
- Focus Blast

Celesteela @ absorb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 104 Def / 156 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Heavy Slam
- Flamethrower

Cryogonal @ rapidspin
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Ice Beam
- Freeze-Dry
- Toxic
- Recover
So, that's it. If anyone has any feedback it would be greatly appreciated, as I mainly use sample teams and don't build very often.
 
Regarding the talk about Echoed Voice from earlier, I'd like to bring up Fury Cutter. Unlike Echoed Voice, it explicitly doubles in power after each use, but caps the maximum base power at 160, making the optimum initial base power 80.
 
Chatot op?

Chatot @ Chatter
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Boomburst
- Heat Wave
- Nasty Plot / Roost
- Substitute / Roost

Confuse and Destroy anyone that stands in your way with STAB Boomburst and nasty plot.
Chatot's a double whammy in this meta. It can run a setup set like yours, but has the versatility of also being the most obnoxious pivot to exist.

Chatot @ Chatter
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Boomburst
- Heat Wave
- Nasty Plot / Roost
- U-turn
 
Hey, don’t know how this slipped by, but.....

Tsareena @ Punishment
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Swagger
- Power Whip
- High Jump Kick / Play Rough
- Synthesis / Play Rough

Punishment increases 20 power for each stat boost the foe has. With Swagger, you have 170 power HJK, 160 power Power Whip and 130 Play Rough. Either Punishment or the combo of Punishment + Swagger should be banned imo.
 
Better yet:


Persian-Alola @Foul Play
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Punishment
- Taunt
- U-turn
- Swagger

480 Def with STAB 100 BP Foul Play, can also pivot and checks set up / hazards
 
Oooh this looks like a really neat meta. I got some cool nifty set ideas coming up so get ready!

Stakataka @ Gyro Ball
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Lonely Nature
IVs: 14 Def / 0 Spe
- Iron Head
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Superpower
Gyro Ball is stronger the slower you are against your opponent. Seeing that there will be a load of revenge killers and speedy mons in general in this meta, Staka could be pretty anti meta. You now have a bunch of moves in your kit that are now dramatically boosted because you’re slow as shit. Just watch out for earthquakes and you’ll be good as gold.


Tapu Koko @ Electroweb
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 104 HP / 12 Def / 176 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Defog
Standard Shuca Koko except it now has Electroweb in the item slot. This gives a speed drop after every attack. Although, this might not be that great because of the massive priority spam. This is still a bunch of experimentation for now, so let’s see how this’ll work when the meta is up on PS.


Heracross @ Feint
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Megahorn
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Pursuit
You know what’s better than priority sweeping? Priority sweeping with Moxie. Now that all of Heracross’s moves have priority, you can now invest into health. Stone Edge can stop any problematic birbs and Hera’s strength could cause some Pursuit shenanigans. I’ve always loved this muscular beetle and I’m pretty excited to see what it could pull off in this meta.

This is all that I have! I’m really enjoying the concept currently!
 
Oooh this looks like a really neat meta. I got some cool nifty set ideas coming up so get ready!

Stakataka @ Gyro Ball
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Lonely Nature
IVs: 14 Def / 0 Spe
- Iron Head
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Superpower
Gyro Ball is stronger the slower you are against your opponent. Seeing that there will be a load of revenge killers and speedy mons in general in this meta, Staka could be pretty anti meta. You now have a bunch of moves in your kit that are now dramatically boosted because you’re slow as shit. Just watch out for earthquakes and you’ll be good as gold.
Q+A
Q+A: (taken from the metagame workshop)

How would Gyro Ball in the item slot work?
-Probably not at all, since the base damage would be that of the moveslot attack.
If I understood well, that stakataka set doesn't really work
 
Aerial Ace is looking like to be very powerfull in this meta, particularly with mew:

Mew @ Aerial Ace
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Zap Cannon
- Fire Blast
- Blizzard
- Focus Blast

We can even have a physical set:

Mew @ Aerial Ace
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dynamic Punch
- Stone Edge
- Gunk Shot
- Iron Tail

He could be used as a good check for lots of threats and rk them easily, thanks to its great stats.

I dont know if it's viable, but it seems interesting.
 
I also thought about a strat which could be very powerfull: toxic spikes + venoshock
Venoshock could give a very powerfull boost to all of the attacks of the poke. In more, lots of pokes learn venoshock, among which scizor, breloom, heracross, gengar... We could have a team like that:

Salazzle (F) @ Venoshock
Ability: Corrosion
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Sludge Wave
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Ground]

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic Spikes
- Toxic
- Recover
- Haze


Scizor @ Venoshock
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Roost
- Swords Dance


Bruxish @ Venoshock
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Liquidation
- Psychic Fangs
- Crunch

Greninja @ Focus Sash
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Taunt
- Ice Beam

Gengar @ Venoshock
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hex
- Sludge Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast

The sets are just here as an example, but I think that venoshock is a threat that shouldnt be underestimated.
 
Technically Water Shuriken is a 3 hit move with Battle Bond, does that move get banned even on that? Or just Torrent Greninja, Smeargle and Accelgor?

What about Ice Ball, or Rollout? Do they double damage per hit for all Attack moves? Fury Cutter? Triple Kick?

How does U-Turn pair with 2-Turn moves like Sky Drop, Hyper Beam? Double-switch yourself and the foe? No recharge?

What about priority abilities like Gale Wings? Does the item priority take precedence over the ability? Same for Triage.

How does Future Sight work? I know you can’t use Future Sight with Doom Desire before the first one has fired off. What if you paired it with Hyper Beam? Would it force whatever Pokémon is on the field to when it hits to recharge?

Thief/Covet?

Does Thousand Arrows allow all Attacks, or just Ground moves to hit their immunities? I.e. Earthquake, Thunderbolt.

Reversal/Flail?

Photon Geyser Smeargle- Everything is Mold Breaker.
 
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