Metagame Fortemons

I wonder if mah boi Feraligatr is good in this meta...

Feraligatr @ Avalanche
Ability: Sheer Force
EVS: 252 Attack/ 4 Defense / 252 Speed
Jolly Nature
- Liquidation
- Ice Punch
- Crunch
- Dragon Dance

BP 170 Liquidation getting another 30% from Sheer Force should blow massive bleeding holes through all comers.
Avalanche gives negative priority, so speed investment and Dragon Dance are pretty useless. Bulky Swords Dance could be pretty cool, though.
 
Oh dear.
I like this meta. For now. Another meta in which i can fail horribly *_*
So, i was looking at unaware mons. Two of them are decent, Clefable and Swoobat (in a pinch?) Quagsire and Bibarel are really meh, imho. Pyukumuku does not have any attack whatsoever XD So it won't use the specific feature of this meta.
Those are the only non lc mon that can have unaware.

Clefable @ whatever
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Moonlight
- Moonblast
- Fire Blast

(inb4 i can't read either and stored power can't be used) EDIT: corrected this shit, since i won't be remember as that dumb guy that... ops. Too late.

Swoobat @ whatever too
Ability: Unaware / Simple
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Roost
- Substitute
- Air Slash

Quagsire @ Scald/Sludge Bomb (what do you want to check?)
Ability: Unaware

And whatever.

Bibarel @ Scald
Ability: Unaware
- Aqua Jet

Yeah, no, nippity nope. If you want to meme, do it, otherwise, look away.

THEN, 4 priority blockers. Bruxish, Tsareena, Tapu Lele, Mew.


Tsareena (F) @ Trop Kick
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Power Whip/Seed Bomb
- High Jump Kick
- Facade
- U-turn

This is useful to check physical attackers too. More or less.

Lele was covered by oher people, Mew has to use Mewnium Z and Psychic (so it's a one use priority block) and Bruzish was covered by other people (but i won't use aqua jet as its item, since it will probably stopped by other priority blockers.)

I'll think about other sets now.
Bye.
 
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Oh dear.
I like this meta. For now. Another meta in which i can fail horribly *_*
So, i was looking at unaware mons. Two of them are decent, Clefable and Swoobat (in a pinch?) Quagsire and Bibarel are really meh, imho. Pyukumuku does not have any attack whatsoever XD So it won't use the specific feature of this meta.
Those are the only non lc mon that can have unaware.

Clefable @ Stored Power
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Moonlight
- Moonblast
- Fire Blast

(inb4 i can't read either and stored power can't be used)

Swoobat @ Stored Power
Ability: Unaware / Simple
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Roost
- Substitute
- Air Slash

Quagsire @ Scald/Sludge Bomb (what do you want to check?)
Ability: Unaware

And whatever.

Bibarel @ Scald
Ability: Unaware
- Aqua Jet

Yeah, no, nippity nope. If you want to meme, do it, otherwise, look away.

THEN, 4 priority blockers. Bruxish, Tsareena, Tapu Lele, Mew.


Tsareena (F) @ Trop Kick
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Power Whip/Seed Bomb
- High Jump Kick
- Facade
- U-turn

This is useful to check physical attackers too. More or less.

Lele was covered by oher people, Mew has to use Mewnium Z and Psychic (so it's a one use priority block) and Bruzish was covered by other people (but i won't use aqua jet as its item, since it will probably stopped by other priority blockers.)

I'll think about other sets now.
Bye.
can confirm that stored power in the item slot is banned
 

Vanilluxe @ Weather Ball
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Blizzard
- Freeze-Dry
- Explosion
- Frost Breath

The only mon to get weather ball and self-setting weather. Your coverage is mono ice + freeze dry which actually isn't all that bad and it's backed by stupid power:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 244 HP / 12 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 333-393 (47.4 - 55.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 147-174 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after hail damage and Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 125-147 (32.3 - 38%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock, hail damage, and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 188 HP / 192+ SpD Thick Fat Snorlax: 186-219 (36.6 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock, hail damage, and Leftovers recovery
 

Vanilluxe @ Weather Ball
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Blizzard
- Freeze-Dry
- Explosion
- Frost Breath

The only mon to get weather ball and self-setting weather. Your coverage is mono ice + freeze dry which actually isn't all that bad and it's backed by stupid power:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 244 HP / 12 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 333-393 (47.4 - 55.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 147-174 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after hail damage and Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 125-147 (32.3 - 38%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock, hail damage, and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 188 HP / 192+ SpD Thick Fat Snorlax: 186-219 (36.6 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock, hail damage, and Leftovers recovery
Keep in mind that Vanilluxe won't be holding Choice Specs in this scenario, since Weather Ball is eating its item slot. Also, minor point, but these mons won't run Leftovers. The calcs look more like this:

252+ SpA Vanilluxe Blizzard (220 BP) vs. 244 HP / 12 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 222-262 (31.6 - 37.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after hail damage
252+ SpA Vanilluxe Blizzard (220 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 83-98 (21.5 - 25.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after hail damage
252+ SpA Vanilluxe Blizzard (220 BP) vs. 188 HP / 192+ SpD Thick Fat Snorlax: 124-147 (24.4 - 28.9%) -- 99.6% chance to 4HKO after hail damage

FWIW, you can obliterate Toxapex with Freeze-Dry.
 
Keep in mind that Vanilluxe won't be holding Choice Specs in this scenario, since Weather Ball is eating its item slot. Also, minor point, but these mons won't run Leftovers. The calcs look more like this:

252+ SpA Vanilluxe Blizzard (220 BP) vs. 244 HP / 12 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 222-262 (31.6 - 37.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after hail damage
252+ SpA Vanilluxe Blizzard (220 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 83-98 (21.5 - 25.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after hail damage
252+ SpA Vanilluxe Blizzard (220 BP) vs. 188 HP / 192+ SpD Thick Fat Snorlax: 124-147 (24.4 - 28.9%) -- 99.6% chance to 4HKO after hail damage

FWIW, you can obliterate Toxapex with Freeze-Dry.
Oh duh yeah thanks, was just using the calc set without thinking. Probably worth going with a non -attk nature then for the guaranteed kill on Chansey with explosion.
 

Vanilluxe @ Weather Ball
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Blizzard
- Freeze-Dry
- Explosion
- Frost Breath

The only mon to get weather ball and self-setting weather. Your coverage is mono ice + freeze dry which actually isn't all that bad and it's backed by stupid power:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 244 HP / 12 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 333-393 (47.4 - 55.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 147-174 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after hail damage and Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 125-147 (32.3 - 38%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock, hail damage, and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 188 HP / 192+ SpD Thick Fat Snorlax: 186-219 (36.6 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock, hail damage, and Leftovers recovery
The problem with Vanilluxe is that it is neither fast nor bulky and will probably be walked over by everything and anything in this meta which will probably be oriented towards offense. I would use this instead :

Victreebel @ Weather Ball
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Solar Beam
- Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ground
- Sunny Day / Sleep Powder / Growth
- Sleep Powder / Growth

+2 252+ SpA Victreebel Solar Beam (240 BP) vs. 244 HP / 12 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 453-534 (64.5 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Come while Psychic Terrain is up, set up sun, desintegrate all opposition. Its coverage is crap but who needs that when you can spam a +2 240 BP STAB move ? The choice between the two HPs is a Ferrothorn vs Heatran debate.
You can forego Sunny Day if you have another sun setter.
 
I'm surprised to see that mooves like whirpool or magma storm arent banned in the item slot. That could give very powerfull poke:
Milotic @ whirpool
Ability: Marvel Scale
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Toxic / perish song
- Scald
- Haze / protect
This could totally destroy defensive poke or even offensive ones that dont touch milotic, depending of your EVs.
In the same idea, we can have Heatran:
Heatran @ magma storm
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Toxic
- Protect
- Earth Power
The only problem of heatran is that without lefto it doesnt have recovery.
Finally, I'm curious to see what would give the combo of whirpool + pursuit in case of a switch:
Weavile @ Whirpool
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pursuit
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
- Poison Jab
 
The problem with Vanilluxe is that it is neither fast nor bulky and will probably be walked over by everything and anything in this meta which will probably be oriented towards offense. I would use this instead :

Victreebel @ Weather Ball
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Solar Beam
- Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ground
- Sunny Day / Sleep Powder / Growth
- Sleep Powder / Growth

+2 252+ SpA Victreebel Solar Beam (240 BP) vs. 244 HP / 12 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 453-534 (64.5 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Come while Psychic Terrain is up, set up sun, desintegrate all opposition. Its coverage is crap but who needs that when you can spam a +2 240 BP STAB move ? The choice between the two HPs is a Ferrothorn vs Heatran debate.
You can forego Sunny Day if you have another sun setter.
The issue with this is that Weather Ball changes typing in weather which very well may mean the entire moveset will be Fire type, making it a little less impressive thanks to being non-STAB, and nowhere near as good coverage as Freeze-Dry for instance. Sure is interesting though
 
Interesting looking meta...

-"Attacks" that call other moves (Assist, Sleep Talk, etc)
These are both status moves rather than attacks, and so, I believe, are all other aliasing moves (e.g. Mimic, Mirror Move), so they wouldn't need an explicit ban.

-Charge moves (Solar Beam, etc)
I don't understand the reasoning for this being banned in the item slot. It seems like it would only have negative consequences by forcing you to waste a turn charging every attack.

How does Swift work? Does it grant 100% accuracy to all attacks?
-Itemized moves dont pass their accuracy on to moveslot moves.
Swift always hitting isn't due to it having 100% accuracy, but having a property that causes it not to check accuracy at all (like No Guard). That means the answer to this question is ambiguous, as although the implication seems to be that Swift wouldn't cause attacks to never miss, this goes against the general rule of the meta and seems to contradict other statements in the OP about how property inheritance works. As people are posting sets with similar moves like Aerial Ace, it might be worth clarifying this point.

How does Knock Off work?
-Itemized moves cant be knocked off or removed in any way such as Trick or Fling. So Knock Off would be a constant 65BP.
Nonetheless, for cases like removing an opposing Tapu Lele's Choice Scarf, couldn't Knock Off be set as the item move to give your attacks item removing properties (and perhaps the one-off BP boost)?

---

Somebody else mentioned that Nuzzle wasn't banned even though it has the same effect as Zap Cannon in the item slot. Although Nuzzle has poor distribution, Togedemaru could be a nice little troll with it.

Togedemaru @ Nuzzle
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Zing Zap
- Spiky Shield
- Substitute / Encore / Disarming Voice

U-turn is the move of choice, as a guaranteed paralysis attack that can't be absorbed by ground types and pivots the user out afterwards. If the opponent wants to keep switching in the same already paralysed mon to soak status, you still benefit from massive momentum that will likely give you chances to kill and move on to cripple another mon.
 
Interesting looking meta...
To respond to any confusion regarding whether things count as "effects" or not- some of my explanations may be incorrect and some bans exist for fringe cases that I wasnt aware would be abusable or not. When the metagame is fully coded, expect the rulings on most of these confusing cases to update (although for the case of swift and never-miss moves, if it turns out to transfer the never-miss property to all of the moveslot attacks then it will be banned from the meta anyway.)

The main bulk of the meta will stay the same, but exception cases will be cleared up and perhaps some more things may have to hit the banlist. Cant say much else right now though!
 
The issue with this is that Weather Ball changes typing in weather which very well may mean the entire moveset will be Fire type, making it a little less impressive thanks to being non-STAB, and nowhere near as good coverage as Freeze-Dry for instance. Sure is interesting though
The op does say that moves retain their regular types, but I guess the typing-changing thing is part of Weather Ball primary effect so you're probably right. However, it actually makes Victreebell much better because it has pseudo Fire STAB from Sunny Day, and I'm not sure wether Weather Ball would change the typing of Hidden Power (it is unaffected by things like Normalize, -ate abilities...). If it does not, it gives Victreebell great Fire/Ground coverage. If it does, well, at least mono Fire is better than mono Grass...

Anyway you're right : we should probably wait for the meta to be even coded before going into such details. On a side note, what's the reasoning behind preventing moves in the item slot from behing removed/Tricked ? Imo Knock Off would allow people to cope with priority spam without splashing Tapu Lele on every single team, and balance things out altogether.
 
Do Abilities stack? If I put Drain Punch (punching, contact, drains 50% of damage inflicted) in Conkeldurr's item slot, will that stack an additional 20% damage on top of what Hammer Arm, Poison Jab, and Ice/Thunder Punch already get? I'm asking because this is a thing, then.

Conkeldurr @ Drain Punch
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Hammer Arm
- Knock Off
- Mach Punch
- Filler

Like, that's still gonna be pretty devastating without the additional 20% damage boost, but getting bonus damage to Knock Off as well as making everything heal a bit is nutty.
I dont believe it will double up on categories like that- the check for iron fist doesnt try and calculate how many times its in the same category. Good question though.

Im not going to let knock off affect itemized moves by the way, because a) the whole point of the metagame is about itemized moves and b) knocking off any item in this meta is a devastating blow to the mon affected, making it an unbalanced, uncompetitive spam move.
 
Thought I'd throw out one more "obvious" contender for greatness as well as a few wildcards:


Zygarde @ Extreme Speed
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 228 HP / 252 Attack / 28 Sp. Def
Adamant Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Coil
- Iron Tail
- Outrage/Dragon Tail/Stone Edge

Zygarde is already a top-tier threat, but now he can use Extreme Speed in his item slot so everything has priority. This allows him to ditch the Dragon Dances and Speed IVs, improving his bulk and allowing for a nasty coil set. Iron Tail was selected for coverage versus fairy and ice types, and the choice on dragon moves is a key one - more power from Outrage, the ability to kill rocks-weak enemies with Stone Edge, or phazing (which then begets more set-up turns) with Dragon Tail?


Scolipede @ Bulldoze
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Attack / 4 Defense / 252 Speed
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Megahorn
- Earthquake
- Aqua Tail / Steamroller / Rock Slide

Bulldoze doubles the impact of his Speed Boost, allowing for truly ludicrous speed control. While priority is a major thing in this meta, it's still an impressive trick. Megahorn and Earthquake remain the primary attacks of choice, but the last move slot is tough - Aqua Tail still provides nice coverage even without a Z-crystal, Steamroller provides silly flinch chances, and Rock Slide splits the difference with some light anti-flying coverage and a light flinch chance.

Mimikyu @ Shadow Sneak
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 Attack / 4 Defense / 252 Speed
Adamant Nature
-Swords Dance
- Play Rough
- Shadow Claw
- Will-o-wisp

Mimikyu's greatest weakness is answered by equipping Shadow Sneak as an item. Now, it can get a free turn to set-up or cripple something thanks to Disguise, and then go to town with priority STAB attacks that have perfect neutral coverage. Given the sheer amount of Pokes abusing priority, I still kept some Speed IVs.
 
A little core I thought of.
Greninja @ u-turn
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Cannon
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Extrasensory


Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt

Greninja's item U-Turn allows it to spam Hydro Cannon to great lengths, effectively removing Hydro Cannon's effect of Greninja not being able to move next turn. Coupled with Scarf Tapu Lele, this can not only block the many priority users in the meta but also have a ton of power and outspeed most of the meta.
 
Mirror Coat doesn't change priority, so it's entirely possible for the move to fail outright if you go first.

Well, that's how it works in standard.
 
Mirror Coat doesn't change priority, so it's entirely possible for the move to fail outright if you go first.

Well, that's how it works in standard.
It doesn’t matter, any move with undetermined base power will not work in item slot. OP clarified

Also, how will increased critcal hit ratio move works in item slot if i also use increased critical hot ratio in normal moveslot? Will the critical ratio counts as stage 2 or it will perform 2 separate stage 1 crit check?
 
Exploud @ Shock Wave (a tutor move)
Ability: Scrappy
252 SpA, 252 somewhere, 4 somewhere; Modest
Rest & Sleep Talk, Boomburst, Focus Blast
or Work Up, Boomburst, Focus Blast, and filler
 
I don't agree with Inferno being banned. Sure, it's very similar to Dynamic Punch and Zap Cannon, but those have much higher distribution and inflict much more obnoxious status conditions.

I also think Feint should definitely be on the ban radar once this gets coded. Because it's two priority levels higher than normal priority attacks, it's near impossible to out-priority without a Feint mon of your own.
 
Speaking of coded, Fortemons is already playable on ROM!

I don't think Feint should be on the ban radar yet--it's got surprisingly iffy distribution, and it gets bit by the same anti-priority measures as Extreme Speed does.

As for Inferno, though, the burn it inflicts is already a pretty obnoxious status condition--it heavily nerfs physical attackers at the very least.
 
Speaking of coded, Fortemons is already playable on ROM!

I don't think Feint should be on the ban radar yet--it's got surprisingly iffy distribution, and it gets bit by the same anti-priority measures as Extreme Speed does.

As for Inferno, though, the burn it inflicts is already a pretty obnoxious status condition--it heavily nerfs physical attackers at the very least.
If Nuzzle ends up not being banned due to poor distribution, then Inferno shouldn't be banned either.
 

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