Metagame Fortemons

I personally think that all the common priority moves should be banned as items, but the ones like Accelerock and First Impression stay. Perhaps I'm just biased because Golisopod enjoys the priority.
I'm pretty sure this counts as a complex ban, or at least, a complicated ban. But I agree, priority moves in the item slot are overpowered and screw up the speed tiers, and are pretty uncompetitive, so I'd vote to add them to the item banlist.
 
ROM's current implementation doesn't copy that, as it would involve copying these effects too:
  • Blizzard/Hurricane/Thunder's weather-based accuracy
  • Hidden Power/Judgment/Multi-Attack/Revelation Dance/Techno Blast/Weather Ball's type-changing
  • Magnitude/Present's variable base power
  • Secret Power
  • Sky Drop's perfect accuracy
ROM's implementation currently copies the following effects:
  • Certain variable base power effects including Echoed Voice
  • Feint/Hyperspace Hole
  • Frost Breath/Storm Throw/other moves more likely to crit
  • Psyshock/Secret Sword
  • Draining moves
  • Contact/Bite/Punch etc.
  • Circle Throw/Dragon Tail
  • Moongeist Beam/Photon Geyser/Sunsteel Strike
  • Chip Away/Darkest Lariat/Sacred Sword
  • Plasma Fists
  • Recoil (for Reckless users)
  • U-turn/Volt Switch
  • Sleep Talk/Snore
  • Spectral Thief
  • Moves that thaw the opponent
  • Foul Play
  • Partially-trapping moves
Does Photon Geyser only grant the Mold Breaker effect or also make every move hit from Necrozma's highest stat? Does Psyshock make every move hit Defense, or Physical moves hit Special Defense? Can you use status moves while awake if Snore is your item?
 
Does Photon Geyser only grant the Mold Breaker effect or also make every move hit from Necrozma's highest stat? Does Psyshock make every move hit Defense, or Physical moves hit Special Defense? Can you use status moves while awake if Snore is your item?
  1. Currently only the Mold Breaker effect. (The other effect might be technically feasible but there may be unknown issues with other moves.)
  2. It would make all moves hit Defense.
  3. No, it just means that the sleep status doesn't affect you.
 
I've found this Celesteela set to be excellent in Fortemons:

Celesteela @ gigadrain
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 104 Def / 156 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Leech Seed
- Earthquake
- Heavy Slam
- Flamethrower

Yeah, it's the typical defensive Celesteela set, except with much better recovery. I swapped out Protect for Earthquake because Protect only buys back Leech Seed healing on this set and Earthquake nails a ton of Celesteela switch-ins (Fire-types, cocky Tapu Koko, etc.). This Celesteela walls so much and has so much sustain.

All I've got replay-wise are games against the bot, but this Celesteela walling 3 opposing mons isn't uncommon:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7fortemons-372429
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7fortemons-372432
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7fortemons-372434
 
I understand why the Serene Grace ban was put in place, but it also ends up completely banning Jirachi and Meloetta. I think a clause should be added to allow Jirachi and Meloetta to participate with a competitively useless ability like Run Away. If Shaymin-Sky ever drops down to OU, this clause should also apply to it as well.

As a note, Jirachi would probably end up running a traditional OU set, but without Leftovers. Something like this:
Jirachi @ Headbutt / Iron Head / Heart Stamp
Ability: Run Away
EVs: 248 HP / 196 SpD / 64 Spe
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Iron Head
- U-turn

...So it really wouldn't affect anything that much.

I've found this Celesteela set to be excellent in Fortemons:

Celesteela @ gigadrain
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 104 Def / 156 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Leech Seed
- Earthquake
- Heavy Slam
- Flamethrower

Yeah, it's the typical defensive Celesteela set, except with much better recovery. I swapped out Protect for Earthquake because Protect only buys back Leech Seed healing on this set and Earthquake nails a ton of Celesteela switch-ins (Fire-types, cocky Tapu Koko, etc.). This Celesteela walls so much and has so much sustain.

All I've got replay-wise are games against the bot, but this Celesteela walling 3 opposing mons isn't uncommon:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7fortemons-372429
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7fortemons-372432
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7fortemons-372434
I've used a variant of that set for a while, here it is if you want it:

Celesteela @ Absorb / Mega Drain / Giga Drain
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flash Cannon
- Flamethrower
- Giga Drain
- Leech Seed

It's a bit more of a sweeper, but that allows it to heal more from it's attacks
 
I understand why the Serene Grace ban was put in place, but it also ends up completely banning Jirachi and Meloetta. I think a clause should be added to allow Jirachi and Meloetta to participate with a competitively useless ability like Run Away. If Shaymin-Sky ever drops down to OU, this clause should also apply to it as well.
This is a complex ban, which isn't allowed. Also, that would actually be changing a pokemon's ability, even if it is a useless one,which isn't something that can happen.
 
I haven't had the chance to test out this meta yet, but I have a few preliminary ideas I hope to try once I do test it out:

Ninetales-Alola @ Freeze-Dry
Ability: Snow Warning
EV's: 60 HP / 196 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IV's: 0 Atk
-Blizzard
-Moonblast
-Aurora Veil
-Hypnosis / Icy Wind

Pretty much the same as the kind of set it runs in OU, but with a couple of tweaks. Freeze-Dry gives it a super-effective damage output against all Water-types with whatever attack it uses, so you can take some liberties with the attacks you use. Aurora Veil is Aurora Veil; I would put it in the Item slot instead if using any other attack would set it up, but from the other sets I've seen, it doesn't look like that would be the case.

Umbreon @ Foul Play
Ability: Synchronize
EV's: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
IV's: 0 Atk, 0 Spd
-Payback
-Wish
-Heal Bell
-Iron Tail

This is a very rough draft, as I thought of making a Foul Play-centered moveset about five seconds before typing this post, and Umbreon was pretty much the only Pokemon that came to my mind. The idea I had here was that Payback would do double damage when Umbreon attacks last (which it usually will with only 65 Speed), while Foul Play means the damage output would go off its opponent's Attack stat (which is usually higher than Umbreon's), so it essentially becomes a more powerful version of a standard Foul Play. Iron Tail is there as another coverage option for Fairy-types, while Wish and Heal Bell still allow Umbreon to still support its team when it needs to.
 
A couple of moves that seem interesting to me are Snore and Facade. The former basically let you negates the drawbacks of rest so long as you use an attack instead of trying to boost or something. The latter is potentially great for Resttalk mono attackers like Zygarde, as it boosts the power of your moves while asleep. As much as people are hyping priority users, and rightly so, I still think bulky set up sweepers will still be viable. Speaking of sleep...

Komala @ facade
Ability: Comatose
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant nature
- Return
- Sucker Punch
- Earthquake
- U-turn

Yeah probably still not viable, but still pretty funny. Facade doubles the power of all your moves when statused, and Komala is always considered asleep thanks to Comatose. So you end up with 306 power Return, 140 bp Sucker Punch and 200 bp Earthquake.
Facade doesn't double in power when asleep unfortunately. Also I tried using Snore on ROM a while back and it didn't work, dunno if the coding was unfinished or just glitched.
 
Facade doesn't double in power when asleep unfortunately. Also I tried using Snore on ROM a while back and it didn't work, dunno if the coding was unfinished or just glitched.
Facade only doubles in power if the user is paralyzed, burned, or poisoned. As for Snore, it should work:
"The Pokémon with this Ability can still use moves (including successfully using Sleep Talk and Snore)."
 
Mew @ Swift
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Focus Blast
- Fire Blast
- Thunder
- Blizzard

Because yay memes
 
If fixed 2-3 moves are fine, does that mean these are legal?


Scizor @ Double Hit
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Brick Break / Bug Bite / U-Turn
- Curse
- Roost

Brick Break is used over Superpower to avoid 2 Atk drops. Set probably isn't optimal, but you get the idea.


Hydreigon @ Double Hit
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Dark Pulse
- Roost
- Fire Blast

Same thing, but with a Special attacker. Hydreigon suffers from the lack of Scarf so it might be good on a Webs team.

Some other good double hit users are probably Mamoswine, Weavile, and Crawdaunt. I could be misinterpreting the banlist but I'm pretty sure these are legal. Essentially doubling the damage of every hit if very strong, but luckily Double Hit has limited distribution and I mentioned the best users in my post.
 
If fixed 2-3 moves are fine, does that mean these are legal?


Scizor @ Double Hit
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Brick Break / Bug Bite / U-Turn
- Curse
- Roost

Brick Break is used over Superpower to avoid 2 Atk drops. Set probably isn't optimal, but you get the idea.


Hydreigon @ Double Hit
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Dark Pulse
- Roost
- Fire Blast

Same thing, but with a Special attacker. Hydreigon suffers from the lack of Scarf so it might be good on a Webs team.

Some other good double hit users are probably Mamoswine, Weavile, and Crawdaunt. I could be misinterpreting the banlist but I'm pretty sure these are legal. Essentially doubling the damage of every hit if very strong, but luckily Double Hit has limited distribution and I mentioned the best users in my post.
No, Double-Hit is banned as an item slot. Re-Check that banlist and you'll see Multi-Hit moves are banned. Even though it's only twice, Double-Hit is still a multi-hit move.
 
Some set ideas I had but many will depend on the specifics of the mechanics.

Tapu Lele @ Echoed Voice
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Thunderbolt

Snorlax @ Snore
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Body Slam
- Rest
- Crunch
- Earthquake

Hawlucha @ Acrobatics
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Aerial Ace
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance

Bisharp @ Knock Off
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Pursuit
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance

Tyranitar @ Pursuit
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch

Lucario @ Extreme Speed
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Meteor Mash
- Stone Edge

Entei @ Extreme Speed
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Stone Edge
- Iron Head
- Stomping Tantrum
 
Some set ideas I had but many will depend on the specifics of the mechanics.

Tapu Lele @ Echoed Voice
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Thunderbolt

Snorlax @ Snore
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Body Slam
- Rest
- Crunch
- Earthquake

Hawlucha @ Acrobatics
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Aerial Ace
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance

Bisharp @ Knock Off
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Pursuit
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance

Tyranitar @ Pursuit
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch

Lucario @ Extreme Speed
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Meteor Mash
- Stone Edge

Entei @ Extreme Speed
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Stone Edge
- Iron Head
- Stomping Tantrum
Just gonna mention that Bisharp set because you can’t Knock Off moves in the item slot.

Also Pursuit is banned so T-tar doesn’t work either...
 
One more set idea I had.

Alakazam @ Shock Wave
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Zap Cannon
- Focus Blast
- Psychic
- Calm Mind
 
Greninja-Ash (M) @ Icy Wind
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Water Shuriken
- Ice Beam

Interesting set here. I was more of thinking a Reverse Choice Scarf in all moves lower opponents Speed by 1.

Edit: nvm
 
Greninja-Ash (M) @ Icy Wind
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Water Shuriken
- Ice Beam

Interesting set here. I was more of thinking a Reverse Choice Scarf in all moves lower opponents Speed by 1.

Edit: nvm
That's one of the more common types of itemized move I've used--the speed lowerer. It sucks on Keldeo from my experience (it/he won't 2HKO much of its/his checks), but it's one of the better itemized moves to give to Lando-T (at least SR setter or Defogger versions, since you get to try your best to win the Lando-T speed tie and then set up stuff).
 
I could try to add support for Clear Smog, which would also make Bug Bite, Core Enforcer, Incinerate, Pay Day (!), Pluck, Relic Song, Smelling Salts, Thousand Waves and Wake-Up Slap work as an item. And it might break Fling, Sky Drop and Splintered Stormshards. Or it might not.
Is there a way for me to see or contribute to the code? IMO, this is the coolest mod since Balanced Hackmons.
 

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