Metagame Fortemons

After going over most of the sets in this thread, I present my 1 original idea.

Turtonator @Payback
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Shell Trap
- Will-O-Wisp
- Draco Meteor
- Explosion

Im not sure what this set is good for Match-up wise, but boosted Shell Traps and Explosions sound fun. You could probably fit shell smash in there but I'm not sure if that would mess with certain speed tiers / lowering your defence could be bad.
 


Marowak-Alola @ Icy Wind
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Bonemerang
- Shadow Bone
- Stone Edge / Swords Dance / Filler

Speed Drop to anything it touches, and a double speed drop with bonemerang :)


Porygon-Z @ Aerial Ace
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Zap Cannon
- Blizzard
- Ice Beam
- Tri Attack

100% Accuracy Zap Cannon, with 405 Special Attack

I'll come up with more later, but one question: Do stat drops like superpower/leaf storm lower your stats for every move?
 


Marowak-Alola @ Icy Wind
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Bonemerang
- Shadow Bone
- Stone Edge / Swords Dance / Filler

Speed Drop to anything it touches, and a double speed drop with bonemerang :)


Porygon-Z @ Aerial Ace
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Zap Cannon
- Blizzard
- Ice Beam
- Tri Attack

100% Accuracy Zap Cannon, with 405 Special Attack

I'll come up with more later, but one question: Do stat drops like superpower/leaf storm lower your stats for every move?
Multi-Hit moves are Moveslot and Item banned.
Aerial Ace =/= free accuracy.
 
Yes, stat drops like Leaf Storm apply the stat drops to every attack. This is abusable with the stat drop-flipping Contrary.
 
I think Nuzzle should be banned in the item slot, since it has a 100% paralysis chance. Admittedly, it’s not as widespread as Zap Cannon and friends, but it seems like it might potentially become a problem. And since you’ve banned Counter, Mirror Coat and Bide in the item slot, you should get rid of Metal Burst as well.

I’ve also thought of some things that might be neat to put in item slots (not broken, just neat):

-Poison Fang. With every attack giving a 50% chance to badly poison the opponent, it’s a great way to dish out hits while also spreading a very dangerous status effect. Unfortunately, very few Pokémon get this move, and none of them are extremely viable (with the exception of the two Pokémon on that list that can Mega Evolve, but they can’t have both a Mega Stone and a move in the item slot). The best bet for this one seems to be Venomoth.
-Binding moves. One of the first things I saw mentioned was Heatran with Magma Storm in the item slot. Of course, any binding move works the same way, and some of them have an enormous distribution, meaning that a huge number of Pokémon, including—God help us all—Dugtrio, can now trap the opponent using any attack.
-Trapping moves. Namely, Spirit Shackle, Anchor Shot and Thousand Waves. Ironically, Spirit Shackle turns out not to be that good in the item slot, since it’s Decidueye’s best physical Ghost STAB. Dhelmise’s Anchor Shot, on the other hand, can be replaced with the generally stronger Gyro Ball. As for Thousand Waves, it no longer has to take up a moveslot on physical Zygarde, which is nice.
-Draining Kiss. The user will be able to restore 75% of its HP with every attack, and Comfey specifically receives a +3 priority boost to every attack as well due to Triage. Comfey has the potential to be a real force to be reckoned with in this meta.
-Fell Stinger. If the opponent faints due to any attack, the user gets a +3 Attack boost. Especially dangerous on Buzzwole, who can also get a Defense boost (or another Attack boost) due to Beast Boost.
-Tri Attack. All attacks get a 20% chance to burn, paralyze or freeze. I don’t see it being a dominant force, but it’s probably going to be fun to play around with.
-Ancient Power, Silver Wind and Ominous Wind. All attacks get a chance to give +1 to every stat, leading to the potential for hilarious sweeps.
-Clear Smog. Any attack can stop setup sweepers in their tracks.
 

drampa's grandpa

#sobblesquad
is a Pre-Contributor
I think Nuzzle should be banned in the item slot, since it has a 100% paralysis chance. Admittedly, it’s not as widespread as Zap Cannon and friends, but it seems like it might potentially become a problem.
The best Nuzzle user is... Raichu-Alola. That's clearly not going to be broken.

Some sets

Kartana @ vacuumwave
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sacred Sword
- Smart Strike / Return
- Leaf Blade

Priority coming off of a base 181 attack gonna hurt. Beast Boost makes it even better because it gets progressively harder to wall, and is already hard to revenge without priority of your own or Tapu Lele (notably Adamant Kartana speed ties Timid Lele, although it clearly is far outsped by Scarf).


Metagross @ icywind
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt

This set is designed to switch into Lele fairly well while also setting rocks. Icy Wind fixes its subpar Speed to a degree, although it still has trouble keeping pace with the metagame. Clear Body allows you to ignore the many stat-dropping items running around, making this mon that's rather subpar in standard more attractive. You could also run something like a Power-Up Punch item alongside Bullet Punch, but I don't recommend Bullet Punch as the item because this set needs to be able to beat Lele. If you have an otherwise solid Lele matchup though that is an option. Other options include Facade, Body Slam, and Rock Smash.
 
How does move legality work?
-Itemized moves dont have to worry about legality as long as the pokemon has access to the move.

That part isn't implemented on rom right? Tried a combo and didn't work
 
What's acrobatics base power? Does it stay 55?
Not really sure what you mean here. It wouldn't do anything in Item slot because you always have an item.

How does move legality work?
-Itemized moves dont have to worry about legality as long as the pokemon has access to the move.

That part isn't implemented on rom right? Tried a combo and didn't work
Here's a couple things to check:
-Do you have the move in the item slot and moveslot? Can't do that.
-Is the Item slot move legal?
 
I meant acro in the moveslot. Any moVe in the item slot doesn't count as an item right so it should do 110 right
First of all, moves don't pass base power, so it would just be 2x the base power. BUT, that would only be true if the Item Slot was empty, which it's not, because afaik, the Moves take up the item slot in the code.
 
This set is ban-worthy. After it sets up, it is practically unstoppable.

Muk-Alola @ Spit Up
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stockpile
- Payback
- Power-Up Punch
- Shadow Sneak

How it works: It sets up with Stockpile to get a 300 base power Shadow Sneak, and then spams Shadow Sneak. Payback can also be used to get 600 base power and STAB.

Counters: Mimikyu (Only if it's in when Muk comes in)
Checks: None that I know of.

Replay:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7fortemons-420049

I'd suggest banning Spit Up as an item.

NOTE: Gastrodon can do something similar with Stockpile, Recover, Whirlpool, and Mud Slap. It's weak to strong Grass-type moves, though. (Like Kartana's Leaf Blade)
 
I'm going to piggy-back off InvalidOS because there are two more abusers of that set, and they can arguably be more broken.

Hippowdon @ Spit Up
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stockpile
- Slack Off
- Bulldoze
- Rock Tomb

Let's take the Muk-Alola set mentioned previously, replace the priority and boosting for recovery, give it moves that neuter the opponent's speed for free, and slap on some Sandstorm damage for no reason and you get Hippowdon. The difference here is, unlike Muk-Alola's snowballing damage into victory by setup, Hippowdon's win condition is to steadily decrease the opponent's speed while being nearly IMPOSSIBLE to kill under normal means after it's set up. The EVs look obscure, but after full setup with Stockpile and healing back to full health, it can survive nonsense like this:

252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. +3 252 HP / 120+ Def Hippowdon in Grassy Terrain: 186-218 (44.2 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252 SpA Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. +3 252 HP / 136 SpD Hippowdon: 180-212 (42.8 - 50.4%) -- 1.6% chance to 2HKO (unlikely scenario but still)

Yes. What you just witnessed was a Hippowdon tanking two of the strongest potential super-effective attacks in the OU meta without any support from Fortemon mechanics. It then proceeds to hit back for huge damage or heal off the damage dealt to it and laugh at your miserable attempts.

This is why setup removal is important, kids.

Gastrodon @ Spit Up
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 232 HP / 76 Def / 200 SpD
Calm Nature
- Stockpile
- Recover
- Scald
- Mud-Slap

This set is downright insulting. It follows the same setup theory that Hippowdon does but this time wins by infuriating the opponent. Scald can apply Burn which makes it even harder to deal with while Mud-Slap can continuously make it harder and harder to hit Gastrodon as it sits there menacingly. The EVs gives it an extra point in SpDef, lets it avoid a 2HKO from Keldeo's Secret Sword (which can avoid the defense boost if Sacred Sword is equipped as an item), and can barely avoid a 2HKO from Tsareena's Trop Kick if at full health with 3 Stockpiles and are lucky with landing a burn with Scald.


Oh and before you say Roar/Whirlwind will stop these or they're too passive, let me remind you exactly how Spit Up mechanics work;

Spit Up:
  • After 0 Stockpiles: Attack will fail
  • After 1 Stockpile: Base Power of move = 100
  • After 2 Stockpiles: Base Power of move = 200
  • After 3 Stockpiles: Base Power of move = 300
This will apply to every single attack in Fortemons. That means that the puny Mud Slap or Rock Tomb you see up there can be adjusted to having a fixed 300 Base Power once fully set up. Good luck trying to phaze or outstall it when it sweeps through while debilitating your team after it sets up! Yeah, this means that Gastrodon can 2HKO Latios with Scalds, Hippowdon can murder Ferrothorn with Bulldoze, and Muk-Alola can nuke virtually anything with Payback.

The only way of stopping these are to kill them before they set up or prevent the setup entirely. Once it's set up, your only hope is to run things like Haze or Clear Smog, status them and hope you can survive longer than they can, or gimmicky sets designed just to stop their rampage. They are nearly impossible to revenge kill, nearly impossible to defend against, and nearly impossible to counter-play against after they set up which is fairly easy to do given their types and natural bulk.
 
I'm going to piggy-back off InvalidOS because there are two more abusers of that set, and they can arguably be more broken.

Hippowdon @ Spit Up
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stockpile
- Slack Off
- Bulldoze
- Rock Tomb

Let's take the Muk-Alola set mentioned previously, replace the priority and boosting for recovery, give it moves that neuter the opponent's speed for free, and slap on some Sandstorm damage for no reason and you get Hippowdon. The difference here is, unlike Muk-Alola's snowballing damage into victory by setup, Hippowdon's win condition is to steadily decrease the opponent's speed while being nearly IMPOSSIBLE to kill under normal means after it's set up. The EVs look obscure, but after full setup with Stockpile and healing back to full health, it can survive nonsense like this:

252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. +3 252 HP / 120+ Def Hippowdon in Grassy Terrain: 186-218 (44.2 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252 SpA Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. +3 252 HP / 136 SpD Hippowdon: 180-212 (42.8 - 50.4%) -- 1.6% chance to 2HKO (unlikely scenario but still)

Yes. What you just witnessed was a Hippowdon tanking two of the strongest potential super-effective attacks in the OU meta without any support from Fortemon mechanics. It then proceeds to hit back for huge damage or heal off the damage dealt to it and laugh at your miserable attempts.

This is why setup removal is important, kids.

Gastrodon @ Spit Up
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 232 HP / 76 Def / 200 SpD
Calm Nature
- Stockpile
- Recover
- Scald
- Mud-Slap

This set is downright insulting. It follows the same setup theory that Hippowdon does but this time wins by infuriating the opponent. Scald can apply Burn which makes it even harder to deal with while Mud-Slap can continuously make it harder and harder to hit Gastrodon as it sits there menacingly. The EVs gives it an extra point in SpDef, lets it avoid a 2HKO from Keldeo's Secret Sword (which can avoid the defense boost if Sacred Sword is equipped as an item), and can barely avoid a 2HKO from Tsareena's Trop Kick if at full health with 3 Stockpiles and are lucky with landing a burn with Scald.


Oh and before you say Roar/Whirlwind will stop these or they're too passive, let me remind you exactly how Spit Up mechanics work;

Spit Up:
  • After 0 Stockpiles: Attack will fail
  • After 1 Stockpile: Base Power of move = 100
  • After 2 Stockpiles: Base Power of move = 200
  • After 3 Stockpiles: Base Power of move = 300
This will apply to every single attack in Fortemons. That means that the puny Mud Slap or Rock Tomb you see up there can be adjusted to having a fixed 300 Base Power once fully set up. Good luck trying to phaze or outstall it when it sweeps through while debilitating your team after it sets up! Yeah, this means that Gastrodon can 2HKO Latios with Scalds, Hippowdon can murder Ferrothorn with Bulldoze, and Muk-Alola can nuke virtually anything with Payback.

The only way of stopping these are to kill them before they set up or prevent the setup entirely. Once it's set up, your only hope is to run things like Haze or Clear Smog, status them and hope you can survive longer than they can, or gimmicky sets designed just to stop their rampage. They are nearly impossible to revenge kill, nearly impossible to defend against, and nearly impossible to counter-play against after they set up which is fairly easy to do given their types and natural bulk.
I kinda started the Gastrodon set, but NidoTheKing improved upon the set. I originally had Stockpile, Recover, Whirlpool, and Mud Slap, but Whirlpool was eventually swapped out for Scald for the burn chance instead of partial trapping. The move swap was also partly because of Whirlpool only having 85% accuracy compared to Scald's 100%.

Also, a common weakness of most of these sets is to Samurott and Keldeo when they hold Sacred Sword as an item. Samurott is, in most ways, the better counter, as it can lock the opponent into Stockpile and then phaze it out with Dragon Tail, or, if the opponent already has set up, just use Aqua Jet. Samurott also has a higher Attack stat than Keldeo, so it doesn't lose to Alolan Muk. Both Keldeo and Samurott lose to Gastrodon, however, unless they carry HP Grass. (Or, alternatively, Grass Knot, though Keldeo doesn't get it.)

There is actually one set that could kill some Spit Up sets without being a gimmick - Mew @ Frost Breath. Frost Breath makes every move crit 100% of the time, which increases damage output and ignores stat boosts. Mew would have to run an uncommon moveset, however, consisting of either Earth Power and Energy Ball or Earthquake and Seed Bomb, depending on if it wants to be special or physical. Definitely not a preferable moveset for it, but it's probably the only counter to these sets that isn't a gimmick. However, it still loses to Muk-Alola, because Mew's only priority move, Sucker Punch, is resisted by Muk-Alola.
 
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I kinda started the Gastrodon set, but NidoTheKing improved upon the set. I originally had Stockpile, Recover, Whirlpool, and Mud Slap, but Whirlpool was eventually swapped out for Scald for the burn chance instead of partial trapping. The move swap was also partly because of Whirlpool only having 85% accuracy compared to Scald's 100%.

Also, a common weakness of most of these sets is to Samurott and Keldeo when they hold Sacred Sword as an item. Samurott is, in most ways, the better counter, as it can lock the opponent into Stockpile and then phaze it out with Dragon Tail, or, if the opponent already has set up, just use Aqua Jet. Samurott also has a higher Attack stat than Keldeo, so it doesn't lose to Alolan Muk. Both Keldeo and Samurott lose to Gastrodon, however, unless they carry HP Grass. (Or, alternatively, Grass Knot, though Keldeo doesn't get it.)
Would this set work too?

Gastrodon @ spitup
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Stockpile
- Swallow
- Earth Power
- Trump Card
 
I kinda started the Gastrodon set, but NidoTheKing improved upon the set. I originally had Stockpile, Recover, Whirlpool, and Mud Slap, but Whirlpool was eventually swapped out for Scald for the burn chance instead of partial trapping. The move swap was also partly because of Whirlpool only having 85% accuracy compared to Scald's 100%.
Guilty as charged. Shoutouts to InvalidOS and Szoenzsoen for the set ideas, I just improved upon them to make them monsters.


There is actually one set that could kill some Spit Up sets without being a gimmick - Mew @ Frost Breath. Frost Breath makes every move crit 100% of the time, which increases damage output and ignores stat boosts. Mew would have to run an uncommon moveset, however, consisting of either Earth Power and Energy Ball or Earthquake and Seed Bomb, depending on if it wants to be special or physical. Definitely not a preferable moveset for it, but it's probably the only counter to these sets that isn't a gimmick. However, it still loses to Muk-Alola, because Mew's only priority move, Sucker Punch, is resisted by Muk-Alola.
You're only half right.

252+ SpA Mew Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 136 SpD Hippowdon on a critical hit: 296-350 (70.4 - 83.3%)

Shockingly enough even to me, Mew doesn't have the raw strength to bring it down even with the buffs. Grass Knot will kill it for sure, but Gastrodon is oddly lightweight with it only dealing 60 BP (meaning it may as well be Hidden Power Grass against it), so you'll be left with this:

252+ SpA Mew Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 232 HP / 200+ SpD Gastrodon on a critical hit: 316-372 (75 - 88.3%)

And to clarify, this is Modest Mew here. Unless you devote the entire set to killing both of them in one shot, Mew can only really deal with one of the two listed, meaning it only can successfully win against one out of the total three due to Muk-Alola's Shadow Sneak. The same can be said with the Samurott and Keldeo sets, which only guarantees victory against Hippowdon (Gastrodon has Storm Drain and Muk-Alola out-prioritizes), so you're left with semi-specific sets that can only effectively stop one of the three juggernauts at a time effectively.



Yeah this shit needs to be fixed.
 
Would this set work too?

Gastrodon @ spitup
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Stockpile
- Swallow
- Earth Power
- Trump Card
No. Swallow gets rid of its Stockpiles, Mud Slap is better for the set, and Scald can burn, while Trump Card is just bad.
 
Guilty as charged. Shoutouts to InvalidOS and Szoenzsoen for the set ideas, I just improved upon them to make them monsters.




You're only half right.

252+ SpA Mew Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 136 SpD Hippowdon on a critical hit: 296-350 (70.4 - 83.3%)

Shockingly enough even to me, Mew doesn't have the raw strength to bring it down even with the buffs. Grass Knot will kill it for sure, but Gastrodon is oddly lightweight with it only dealing 60 BP (meaning it may as well be Hidden Power Grass against it), so you'll be left with this:

252+ SpA Mew Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 232 HP / 200+ SpD Gastrodon on a critical hit: 316-372 (75 - 88.3%)

And to clarify, this is Modest Mew here. Unless you devote the entire set to killing both of them in one shot, Mew can only really deal with one of the two listed, meaning it only can successfully win against one out of the total three due to Muk-Alola's Shadow Sneak. The same can be said with the Samurott and Keldeo sets, which only guarantees victory against Hippowdon (Gastrodon has Storm Drain and Muk-Alola out-prioritizes), so you're left with semi-specific sets that can only effectively stop one of the three juggernauts at a time effectively.



Yeah this shit needs to be fixed.
Couldn't Kartana @ Sacred Sword work, actually? It dies to Muk because priority, but it could kill Gastrodon and Hippowdon easily.

252 Atk Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 232 HP / 76 Def Gastrodon: 936-1104 (222.3 - 262.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Ok, it does well against Gastrodon...

252 Atk Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 120+ Def Hippowdon: 270-318 (64.2 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Hippowdon Bulldoze (300 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 280-331 (108.1 - 127.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
...Oh.

252 Atk Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 120+ Def Hippowdon: 270-318 (64.2 - 75.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock, 3 layers of Spikes, hail damage, and Leech Seed damage
...Not even guaranteed with all of this.


I tried.
 
Sheer force rampardos with Brick break as the item slot is terrifying, negating recoil damage and offering a screen breaker if the ability gets nullified or changed
 

CoolMan6001

formerly reagularman
Sheer force rampardos with Brick break as the item slot is terrifying, negating recoil damage and offering a screen breaker if the ability gets nullified or changed
Multiple issues with that:
  1. There's better Sheer Force users than Rampardos
  2. Brick Break is unnafected by Sheer Force
 
Multiple issues with that:
  1. There's better Sheer Force users than Rampardos
  2. Brick Break is unnafected by Sheer Force
I know, that is why i said if the ability is negated or changed you get a screen breaker, if it is not then you get the effects of sheer force, the crazy attack of rampardos is just funny to picture
 

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