Metagame Fortemons

If Nuzzle ends up not being banned due to poor distribution, then Inferno shouldn't be banned either.
I think we should actually try to play this meta before talking about bans...
Anyway Inferno has substantially better distribution than Nuzzle (it's hard to be actually worse than "all your users are in PU and most of them are not even ranked there"), with at least three decent users in Mismagius, Chandelure and Victini.

Btw, Inferno + Hex sounds interesting, and Hex in itself could be great with Toxic Spikes.
 
Frost Breath sets. Frost Breath makes every move land as a critical hit, allowing for increased damage output.


Araquanid @ Frost Breath
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Leech Life/Lunge
- Crunch
- Sticky Web


Golisopod @ Frost Breath
Ability: Emergency Exit
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Leech Life/First Impression
- Sucker Punch/First Impression
- Aqua Jet


Mew @ Frost Breath
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind/Nasty Plot
- Psychic/Psyshock
- Dazzling Gleam
- Flamethrower
 
Why run any other item than First Impression? The way the meta's coded (Which it is on ROM, btw), it gives the +2 Priority WITHOUT the caveat of being first turn only. Therefore Golisopod's able to have +3 sucker punches/aqua jets and +2 any other attacking move with no penalty.
 
Why run any other item than First Impression? The way the meta's coded (Which it is on ROM, btw), it gives the +2 Priority WITHOUT the caveat of being first turn only. Therefore Golisopod's able to have +3 sucker punches/aqua jets and +2 any other attacking move with no penalty.
Easy--Golisopod's already known for being Tapu Lele-weak, and if they insist on switching it/her in every time Golisopod comes out, at least you can nail it/her with Liquidation on the switch if you don't use a priority attack as your weapon.

I've tried some Fortemons games on ROM against another user, and so far, sticking in no more than 2 priority-item users per team is paying off. Those users are already fairly hosed by Psychic Terrain.
 

drampa's grandpa

#sobblesquad
is a Pre-Contributor

Heracross @ Feint
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Megahorn
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Pursuit
You know what’s better than priority sweeping? Priority sweeping with Moxie. Now that all of Heracross’s moves have priority, you can now invest into health. Stone Edge can stop any problematic birbs and Hera’s strength could cause some Pursuit shenanigans. I’ve always loved this muscular beetle and I’m pretty excited to see what it could pull off in this meta.

This is all that I have! I’m really enjoying the concept currently!
I can confirm that this Heracross set is incredibly good. It's an amazing cleaner
I've been running Jolly for opposing priority and Earthquake > Pursuit for coverage purposes. EQ OHKOs Tapu Koko after rocks and deals with Victini more accurately than Heracross' other options (although it fails to OHKO even after rocks). Once you've got one KO it's easy to run through teams.

I run it alongside two terrain setters to counteract Tapu Lele, because damn that thing terrifies me. I haven't seen it yet but priority is so strong I'm sure it's gonna be S rank.

Here's a replay of Heracross in action
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7fortemons-346402
 
Speaking of Lele, Accelgor seems like a pretty good answer to it while not being half bad at simply wallbreaking. Acid Spray as the item basically destroys the opponent's chance of withstanding incoming special hits.
 
Here's a probably bad set

Heatmor @ firelash
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Flare Blitz
- Superpower

I've never played the meta so idk how useful this is. Probably not that great, but sounds interesting at tge least

Does "runs off user's higher offense" from Photon Geyser pass into moves?
 
Does "runs off user's higher offense" from Photon Geyser pass into moves?
ROM's current implementation doesn't copy that, as it would involve copying these effects too:
  • Blizzard/Hurricane/Thunder's weather-based accuracy
  • Hidden Power/Judgment/Multi-Attack/Revelation Dance/Techno Blast/Weather Ball's type-changing
  • Magnitude/Present's variable base power
  • Secret Power
  • Sky Drop's perfect accuracy
ROM's implementation currently copies the following effects:
  • Certain variable base power effects including Echoed Voice
  • Feint/Hyperspace Hole
  • Frost Breath/Storm Throw/other moves more likely to crit
  • Psyshock/Secret Sword
  • Draining moves
  • Contact/Bite/Punch etc.
  • Circle Throw/Dragon Tail
  • Moongeist Beam/Photon Geyser/Sunsteel Strike
  • Chip Away/Darkest Lariat/Sacred Sword
  • Plasma Fists
  • Recoil (for Reckless users)
  • U-turn/Volt Switch
  • Sleep Talk/Snore
  • Spectral Thief
  • Moves that thaw the opponent
  • Foul Play
  • Partially-trapping moves
 
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Azumarill @ Rollout
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Play Rough
- Knock Off
- Aqua Jet

Not sure if this would stack like normal rollout but rollout/ice ball seems like fun
 
How does Echoed Voice work as an itemized move here? Do moves with it get the boost as long as you use them consecutively, or do they only get the boost as long as you spam the same move?

E.g. I have Tapu Lele with itemized Echoed Voice. If it/she uses Psyshock on Turn 1 and Moonblast on Turn 2, does the Moonblast get the additional 40 BP?
 
The stacking of draining moves doesn't seem to be working on ROM- at turn 20 here is a Buzzwole with Leech Life as its item Drain Punching a Ferrothorn for 58%, and only recovering 24% of its hp.
 
Hello, I've taken interest in this meta, as I think it'll be broken in some aspects.

Scizor @ Fury Cutter
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- X-Scissor
- Aerial Ace
- Bullet Punch

Would this technically work? I mean, the first three moves would hit 160 BP in 2 turns. Bullet Punch is mainly for priority, and I guess if you abuse it, it'll be a 160 BP move in 3 moves.

The stacking of draining moves doesn't seem to be working on ROM- at turn 20 here is a Buzzwole with Leech Life as its item Drain Punching a Ferrothorn for 58%, and only recovering 24% of its hp.
Are you running HP EVs? Because the percentage isn't based on the simulator's percentage. It's based on total HP. So if your Buzzwole hit for 100 HP, then it gains that 100 HP. Not the percentage done to the Ferrothorn itself.
 
Are you running HP EVs? Because the percentage isn't based on the simulator's percentage. It's based on total HP. So if your Buzzwole hit for 100 HP, then it gains that 100 HP. Not the percentage done to the Ferrothorn itself.
Yeah, but 58% of an hp invested Ferrothorn is 205hp, which works out at about 50% for a full hp Buzzwole which sits at 417hp, so it's definitely not working as it should.
 
Yeah, but 58% of an hp invested Ferrothorn is 205hp, which works out at about 50% for a full hp Buzzwole which sits at 417hp, so it's definitely not working as it should.
But we don't know the EVs for the Ferrothorn. Maybe it didn't have any. There should be more tests conducted before it is truly known it isn't working.
 
But we don't know the EVs for the Ferrothorn. Maybe it didn't have any. There should be more tests conducted before it is truly known it isn't working.
Even a completely uninvested in hp Ferrothorn (but like, who is gonna give the bot a team with that spread) upon taking a 58% drain punch would mean Buzzwole would recover around 40%. It's definitely not stacking as it should.

Anyway here's a set:

Tapu Lele @ drainingkiss
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Psyshock


Draining Kiss recovers a huge 75% of damage done, which coupled with Lele's power and these defensive setup moves makes this set a nuisance for offensive teams and gives it the longevity to set its terrain multiple times. Here's a lil replay:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7fortemons-350008
 
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Even a completely uninvested in hp Ferrothorn (but like, who is gonna give the bot a team with that spread) upon taking a 58% drain punch would mean Buzzwole would recover around 40%. It's definitely not stacking as it should.

Anyway here's a set:

Tapu Lele @ drainingkiss
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Psyshock


Draining Kiss recovers a huge 75% of damage done, which coupled with Lele's power and these defensive setup moves makes this set a nuisance for offensive teams and gives it the longevity to set its terrain multiple times. Here's a lil replay:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7fortemons-350008
I apologize. You seem to be correct. Here's a replay of the proof and the math adds up: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7fortemons-350189

Buzzwole does 41% damage to the 289 health Ferrothorn. It only recovers 16% of it's own 355 health, when in fact, it should be closer to 31%.
Tagging Kris and urkerab to check it out.
 
Not sure if this would stack like normal rollout but rollout/ice ball seems like fun
I think all that would happen is that you get locked into Rollout (but at least you're already at 60BP by then).
How does Echoed Voice work as an itemized move here?
It doesn't, I misread the coding. Sorry about that.
The stacking of draining moves doesn't seem to be working on ROM- at turn 20 here is a Buzzwole with Leech Life as its item Drain Punching a Ferrothorn for 58%, and only recovering 24% of its hp.
Draining isn't coded as a stackable effect, so you might as well use Power-Up Punch or Superpower or something.
 
The stacking of draining moves doesn't seem to be working on ROM- at turn 20 here is a Buzzwole with Leech Life as its item Drain Punching a Ferrothorn for 58%, and only recovering 24% of its hp.

Draining isn't coded as a stackable effect, so you might as well use Power-Up Punch or Superpower or something.
but
How do itemized effects stack with move effects?
-Two separate rolls, so you would roll for a 30% scald burn and then roll for a 10% flamethrower burn for a 37% total chance, rather than adding 30+10 and having a 40% burn chance overall. When it comes to healing, you'll heal once for 50% (assuming giga drain) and then once again for 50% (assuming another move like mega drain)- so in this particular case, you'll be effectively healing additively for 100% of the damage dealt.
 

drampa's grandpa

#sobblesquad
is a Pre-Contributor
I would like to recommend that moves with more than 0 priority be banned from the item slot.

In my brief experience playing the metagame it has been a priorityfest versus Tapu Lele. Powerful priority abusers such as Heracross, Entei, Zygarde, etc. control the meta, and make it very difficult to play without either playing that priority game, or refusing to with Tapu Lele (or stall, which I tried briefly and found workable but tough thanks to people spamming high bp moves).

This replay is a good example of how oriented around priority the meta currently is I think. In it, my team was essentially at a disadvantage, but thanks to Feint Heracross + Tapu Lele (and a way to remove Psychic Terrain in two other Tapus) I was able to control the priority game and thus win the match.

I do not believe this Lele/priority duality is a healthy state for the meta, as it is horribly overcentralizing, and I would love to hear other people's thoughts on the matter.
 
If STABmons can ban Extremespeed, this meta should stay far away from the concept too. Yeah it's a logical fallacy but it's true. Looks like Fake Out got quickbanned too, maybe because it was implemented wrongly in the first place, but the concept is sound.
 
I personally think that all the common priority moves should be banned as items, but the ones like Accelerock and First Impression stay. Perhaps I'm just biased because Golisopod enjoys the priority.
 

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