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Metagame Fortemons

Imperator Romanum said:
Have you tried using Zapdos? Sp.def Zapdos is a great counter to both of the birds and landorus-i (special variants). With Static you also have a chance to para no
matter what they use. It doesn't need a fortemon either, HDB works just fine.
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252 Atk Sheer Force Landorus Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 238-282 (62.1 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
My issue is that Zapdos seems to be the only real counter to the Body Pressing birds since it is the only one that permanently cripples them and doesn't suck into the rest of the metagame. Raging Bolt can also counter them, but Raging Bolt is broken and banworthy. Gholdengo loses to Drill Run.
 
Charge Beam and Body Press need to GO this is insane. Mons should not be allowed to get to +3 while attacking. Also IDBP + Agility is so dumb this is literally QD + VD at the same time
 
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:Baxcalibur:

Why has nobody been using this mon at all on ladder? With a Choice Band Glaive Rush/Icicle Crash/EQ hits everything in this tier like a truck, and Ice Shard is extremely good at revenge killing, in particular being able to snipe :Landorus: :Dragapult: and:Latios:. Its speed tier isn't awful as well, it outspeeds and threatens out :Glimmora: :Ceruledge: :Rillaboom: :Quaquaval: and :Raging-Bolt:, and its great bulk lets it tank hits from faster threats like :Darkrai:. This thing can even 2HKO :Alomomola:, and :Alomomola: can't do a thing back to it since its scalds just bounce off. While :Corviknight: and :Skarmory: are pretty much the only walls that can switch into it, pairing :Baxcalibur: with :Zapdos: gets around that, giving a as well as spreading paralysis to let :Baxcalibur: outspeed even boosted or naturally faster foes.
 
What exactly does Restricted mean on the Moves tab? I see that a bunch of things are listed that way, but I don't know what it means. Like do I only get one Restricted thing total? Do I get one from each category? Are they just soft-banned?

Edit: I think maybe it means you can use it as a move but not as an ability?
 
MrDrStevenson said:
What exactly does Restricted mean on the Moves tab? I see that a bunch of things are listed that way, but I don't know what it means. Like do I only get one Restricted thing total? Do I get one from each category? Are they just soft-banned?

Edit: I think maybe it means you can use it as a move but not as an ability?
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Correct, in general a restriction in an OM means that is excluded from the gimmick of that format.
So in this case that move cant be a forte.
 
KaenSoul said:
Correct, in general a restriction in an OM means that is excluded from the gimmick of that format.
So in this case that move cant be a forte.
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Thank you! I'm still venturing out of my VGC shell into showdown and these OMs are so interesting to me.

appreciate the guidance <3
 
Wanted to share a few ideas:

:raging-bolt:

Raging Bolt @ stompingtantrum
Ability: Protosynthesis
EVs: 160 HP / 252 SpA / 96 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 20 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderclap
- Thunderbolt

Volt Switch Forte is cool, but Stomping Tantrum is imo so much harder to play around. It takes all the guesswork out of clicking Bolt's STABs, since it can OHKO all ground/fairy type switchins on the next move. It also combos beautifully with Thunderclap.

:lilligant-hisui:

Lilligant-Hisui (F) @ hurricane
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Triple Axel
- Axe Kick
- Bullet Seed
- Victory Dance

This...isn't good. But it's a cool idea imo: Hurricane can't miss in rain, negating the downside of Hustle. The 30% confusion + multi hit moves is a nice bonus. I'd like to use this idea with Blizzard/Snow, but freeze moves can't be used as fortes :(
 
KaenSoul said:
Hey fellas, so you may already know that Fortemons is one of the formats in OMCL, so we kind of need to go back into developing the format, would like to hear what people think of it and what changes you would like to see, last time Body Press seemed like the most likely to receive action on so it may be worth discussing the most.
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Problematic Fortes
• Body Press (warps the meta too much plz just get rid of it)
• Charge Beam (pretty self explanatory)
• Volt Switch (either this or Bolt)
• Assurance (wdym 150 BP Dragon Darts)
• Draining Kiss (If you have Psychic Noise u are probably fine but otherwise it’s just cooked, 75% healing is way too much)

Problematic Pokemon
• Raging Bolt
This Giraffe is so broken I just dont understand why it or the 3 fortes it uses are legal, Why can this thing click a 137 SpA Draco and pivot? Why can it use Rising Voltage with Priority on electric terrain? This guy I fought the other day was using Clodsire to check it, it only switched into Draco twice before becoming useless, I don’t think this even needs a suspect, just get rid of it

• Dragapult
Either this goes or Hex and Assurance go as Fortes

• Quaquaval
• This is just busted if u are not carrying a Bolt, which employs the broken checking broken analogy which I wont go into

• I feel like all the Body Press abusers are fine if we can just restrict Body Press
 
DragonLordDX said:
Problematic Fortes
• Draining Kiss (If you have Psychic Noise u are probably fine but otherwise it’s just cooked, 75% healing is way too much)

Problematic Pokemon
• Raging Bolt
This Giraffe is so broken I just dont understand why it or the 3 fortes it uses are legal, Why can this thing click a 137 SpA Draco and pivot? Why can it use Rising Voltage with Priority on electric terrain? This guy I fought the other day was using Clodsire to check it, it only switched into Draco twice before becoming useless, I don’t think this even needs a suspect, just get rid of it

• Dragapult
Either this goes or Hex and Assurance go as Fortes
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I'm going to softly agree that Primarina, Raging Bolt and Dragapult should be discussed at the very least, though I'm not sure they are broken. Btw, perhaps you can edit your comment, but what three fortes do bolt run? Rising voltage, volt switch - but what's the third option here?

Currently, the meta is very fast paced and Raging Bolt is really nice once it gets those two-three turns to Draco the Ting-Lu/Clodsire/Excadrill. After that its super strong, but you still need those switch ins. Slowking-Galar is a solid switch in everytime, recovering all the damage it takes. Volt switch is a two-edged sword as well. I've beaten bolt with Primarina if you have a substitute up because you can just use substitute again, and you're still behind a sub once they have to switch something in. Point being that sometimes you really do want to stay in. Raging Bolt has also been a nice check to Quaq, Darkrai and Valiant in a pinch, as you can thunderclap and switch out. Rising Voltage seems like a noob trap to me tbh. You're still going to struggle versus bulky ground types (several options here) and you need to set electric terrain - which is also quite difficult. None of the above will save you from getting revenge killed by Dragapult, Landorus-I, Excadrill and Baxcalibur either. Great mon, probably top 5 in the current meta, but there is counterplay in the current fast paced meta.

Primarina is imo one of the big threes of this meta, alongside Quaq and Dragapult. Psychic Noise completely shuts it down, sub or not, but without that it's very difficult to beat it 1v1 consistently. There's so many good psychic noise users to choose from though, I'd like to keep it around for now.

I agree with you fully on Dragapult though, yeah. I haven't found a consistent way to switch into this at all. It has nukes on sides of the spectrum, 160 BP Shadowball, 240 BP Draco, or 150 BP Dragon Darts. But it is a bit tricky to use. If you are statused then tough luck, but it still needs to get off a wisp to hit hard with hex. With assurance it does help that a bulky fairy type can switch in on the predict. Banning assurance seems like the best option here, something should probably be done.
 
Imperator Romanum said:
I'm going to softly agree that Primarina, Raging Bolt and Dragapult should be discussed at the very least, though I'm not sure they are broken. Btw, perhaps you can edit your comment, but what three fortes do bolt run? Rising voltage, volt switch - but what's the third option here?

Currently, the meta is very fast paced and Raging Bolt is really nice once it gets those two-three turns to Draco the Ting-Lu/Clodsire/Excadrill. After that its super strong, but you still need those switch ins. Slowking-Galar is a solid switch in everytime, recovering all the damage it takes. Volt switch is a two-edged sword as well. I've beaten bolt with Primarina if you have a substitute up because you can just use substitute again, and you're still behind a sub once they have to switch something in. Point being that sometimes you really do want to stay in. Raging Bolt has also been a nice check to Quaq, Darkrai and Valiant in a pinch, as you can thunderclap and switch out. Rising Voltage seems like a noob trap to me tbh. You're still going to struggle versus bulky ground types (several options here) and you need to set electric terrain - which is also quite difficult. None of the above will save you from getting revenge killed by Dragapult, Landorus-I, Excadrill and Baxcalibur either. Great mon, probably top 5 in the current meta, but there is counterplay in the current fast paced meta.

Primarina is imo one of the big threes of this meta, alongside Quaq and Dragapult. Psychic Noise completely shuts it down, sub or not, but without that it's very difficult to beat it 1v1 consistently. There's so many good psychic noise users to choose from though, I'd like to keep it around for now.

I agree with you fully on Dragapult though, yeah. I haven't found a consistent way to switch into this at all. It has nukes on sides of the spectrum, 160 BP Shadowball, 240 BP Draco, or 150 BP Dragon Darts. But it is a bit tricky to use. If you are statused then tough luck, but it still needs to get off a wisp to hit hard with hex. With assurance it does help that a bulky fairy type can switch in on the predict. Banning assurance seems like the best option here, something should probably be done.
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The 3rd Raging Bolt Forte that atleast I’ve used is Charge Beam on Hyper Offense
 
InkyDarkBird said:
252 Atk Sheer Force Landorus Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 238-282 (62.1 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
My issue is that Zapdos seems to be the only real counter to the Body Pressing birds since it is the only one that permanently cripples them and doesn't suck into the rest of the metagame. Raging Bolt can also counter them, but Raging Bolt is broken and banworthy. Gholdengo loses to Drill Run.
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at this point just run stone edge??
 
Raging Bolt can use too much sets to be healthy. You cant know what it is running until it already killed like one or two members of your team. Volt switch isnt the most threatening, it's actually the easiest to handle since it's just annoying and doesnt boosts its damage. Stomping really hard punishes reads you are trying to do vs its STABs, raising voltage destroys even Excadrill (Draco Meteor from Modest variants actually ohkoes it from full health) and even if it means running pincurchin, well the outside is just too good that it's not even a drawback, not to mention it buffs moth and valiant too.

Diancie is really the only real Pokemon broken using Body Press. The two others which are corv and skarm are checked by either faster threats or just by hitting them hard to prevent them from setting up. Diancie can attack and setup at the same time with its broken signature move, and just use Draining Kiss to heal back to full and it can even Trick Room or Rock Polish to beat faster threats. Even stuff like Goodra Hisui isnt checking it if it got too much boosts and it needs to run flash cannon to be able to do something back.

Rapid Spin/Mortal Spin is ridiculous. It basically makes hazards close to useless since you cant block it anymore on top of making the user fast as hell. Quak is probably the most popular choice right now but Glimmora is also annoying, not to mention it can poison steel types too.

Bloodmoon Ursaluna is also for me a bit of a concern. Incredible physical bulk lets it stand a phletora of physical threats and Mind Eye also means that you cant stop Blood Moon from giving it a speed boost thanks to Trailblaze. Its low initial speed and spdef makes it manageable, but the bulky calm mind variants can just get too easy sweeps if the opponent lack strong counters to it.
 
I believe Body Press and Charge Beam really have to be restricted. Skarmory and Diancie, both on the survey, both use this move. Therefore, Body Press is what's broken. Also Rapid Spin Forte is cheap, but I'd argue Quaquaval or even Excadrill are more broken as abusers than the Forte itself.
 
Imperator Romanum said:
Well, if body press is banned, can we unban great tusk and iron treads?
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Great Tusk was banned for Rapid Spin, but Iron Treads would likely be freed.

This metagame is oversaturated with threats. You have the Body Pressing birds, Cobalion, and Diancie, all 4 of which can sweep teams, Dragapult with physical Dragon Energy, Raging Bolt nuke with Rising Voltage or Stomping Tantrum, Regieleki Volt Switcher, 8 legal Ubers, 4 of which are definitely broken because they either deal too much damage or can sweep with almost no counterplay (Baxcalibur, Ursaluna-Bloodmoon, Dialga-O, Landorus-I), Quaquaval being a staple in the metagame, the 3 Charge Beamers sweeping teams, Primarina healing off of everything (except Psychic Noise Glowking), Hex and Zapdos teams attempting to counter IronPress and Quaquaval (and creating toxic paraspam, although if Body Press is restricted it might be easier to face).

If we are concerned about Fortemons' "identity", I don't see an easy solution. This tier has had to ban so many Pokemon and restrict so many moves because defensive Pokemon get almost no tools, yet they are still losing to the setup sweepers, or Raging Bolt just nuking stuff with Rising Voltage, or mixed Body Press users wrecking everything, or Primarina constantly healing off of defensive walls, etc.
 
Has anyone else tried out Tsareena? Didn't see any other mentions of this mon so just wondering.

Tsareena (F) @ rapidspin
Ability: Queenly Majesty
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Power Whip
- Triple Axel
- High Jump Kick

Not sure if it's just a good anti-meta pick rn or if the set has actual sauce, but it's been putting in a lot of work for me.
 
granny_snubbull said:
Has anyone else tried out Tsareena? Didn't see any other mentions of this mon so just wondering.

Tsareena (F) @ rapidspin
Ability: Queenly Majesty
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Power Whip
- Triple Axel
- High Jump Kick

Not sure if it's just a good anti-meta pick rn or if the set has actual sauce, but it's been putting in a lot of work for me.
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I remember trying Tsareena in earlier versions of the meta. It was a decent auto-Spinner, but Quaquaval being faster and having priority eventually won over.
 
Lectrys said:
I remember trying Tsareena in earlier versions of the meta. It was a decent auto-Spinner, but Quaquaval being faster and having priority eventually won over.
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Yeah, that makes sense, Quaquaval is probably just straight-up better. Although sometimes the Ice Spinner +3 speed comes in clutch (especially against opposing rapid spin mons, it's nice to automatically outpace them like that). At the very least I feel like it's better than most of the mons who are ranked C lol
 
THE thned said:
easy battle lol
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Hey, I have a question - I know it’s been said that moves don’t pass on their accuracy, but does that include moves that never miss, like Aura Sphere, Swift etc.? It seems like that might count as a secondary effect, seeing as it’s specifically mentioned in the move descriptions.
 
Monsieur23 said:
Hey, I have a question - I know it’s been said that moves don’t pass on their accuracy, but does that include moves that never miss, like Aura Sphere, Swift etc.? It seems like that might count as a secondary effect, seeing as it’s specifically mentioned in the move descriptions.
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No as they are coded as a value in their accuracy stat, unlike something like Thunder under rain that is an additional effect that overwrites its original accuracy allowing it to be passed as a forte.
 
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