Metagame Fortemons

[quagsirefan888]

Here’s some mons that aren’t on the VR but should be imo.

(Loaded Dice, Breaking Swipe, Crunch, Dragon Breath): Baxcalibur doesn’t benefit a whole lot from this meta’s mechanic but it can still abuse effect chances with its multi-hit STABs or just be a solid sweeper with Loaded Dice.
(Draining Kiss): Latias is a really solid offensive mon with longevity thanks to Draining Kiss and good bulk. It can often tank and get all its HP back with a boosted attack. Mist Ball is a good STAB that lets it duel opposing CMers too.
(Choice Scarf): with lots of snowballing effects like Charge Beam, Trailblaze, and Rapid Spin, Ditto is a great revenge killer
(Heavy-Duty Boots): This is literally just the best item for it with all the spikes going around
(Draining Kiss): It literally has draining kiss, no need for drain punch
(Rocky helmet): Contact punishing is great in this meta cause a lot of effects imbue contact on their moves. It can serve to limit annoying mons like Samurott-H, U-turn mons like Lokix, multi-hit mons, and Rapid Spin abusers.
(Body Press): Chesnaught is an interesting Body Press abuser cause it has two healing STAB options that give it nice longevity. It has a great matchup against Samurott-H and can blank some incidental mons with Bulletproof, but it’s really the ability to tank and regain all its HP that makes it hard to take out.

definitely agree on latias, it doesn't need any investment in bulk to be able to take a couple of hits, and with draining kiss and it's solid damage output it easily turns a 3HKO into a 5HKO, the one issue i find with it is that lokix can force it out for free

 

[quagsirefan888]

I may as well post my team, I'm pretty proud of it and it's proven to be pretty consistent outside of a couple of problem matchups.


https://pokepast.es/32559b4180d3658f

Nothing on the team is particularly special, it's just a well rounded team with some sets I like.

Sandy Shocks

Set

Sandy Shocks @ scorchingsands
Ability: Protosynthesis
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt

This team's main lead. It has a good matchup into some common leads like Samurott-H and Glimmora, outspeeding both and having a 75% chance to OHKO Samurott with Volt Switch while only taking around 40% from Aqua Jet. It's also a great pivot to have throughout the midgame, being able to switch in on any slower pokemon and get rocks up, do good damage, and likely get a burn or two with Volt Switch. It also serves as this team's answer to Raging Bolt, who would otherwise be a near unwinnable matchup. Lastly, it can switch into either of this team's defensive walls to get out of bad matchups, pivoting into Skarmory against ground or grass moves, and Toxapex against water moves.

Latias

Set

Latias (F) @ drainingkiss
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Recover / Dragon Pulse
- Mist Ball
- Aura Sphere / Dragon Pulse

Special attacker who's good at everything. Latias can switch in on plenty of attacks due to it's typing and ability covering for the Electric, Fire, and Ground weaknesses seen on the other members of the team. From there it's a fast, decently hard hitting attacker who makes amazing use of Draining Kiss to keep itself healthy and win 1v1s, being able to heal around 30% from most attacks even without a CM boost. If it finds an opportunity to get some CM boosts it becomes extremely difficult to take down, easily tanking special attacks and most physical attacks, then healing whatever HP it lost back by OHKO-ing the opponent. As for bad matchups, it's kind of helpless against Gholdengo, instantly forced to switch out by Lokix, and while it can OHKO Iron Valiant with Mist Ball it needs to be at full HP to survive moonblast before doing so. Still, it's a very versatile pokemon that's will be useful throughout the entire match.

Lokix

Set

Lokix @ uturn
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- Throat Chop
- Leech Life
- Sucker Punch

The perfect revenge killer. Not exactly the most complicated set, but it's certainly effective. You click First Impression, deal way too much damage for a bug move off of 102 base attack, and leave before they can hit you. If you KO with First Impression you get to bring in whatever you want for absolutely free, if you don't KO you should probably bring in Toxapex or Skarmory. The other 3 moves are rarely going to get used. Adamant nature lets it do some more damage, with the only drawback being that it means opposing Lokix outspeed you and force you to switch, as opposed to being a 50/50 of which Lokix dies.

Quaquaval

Set

Quaquaval @ rapidspin
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aqua Step
- Aqua Jet
- Close Combat
- U-turn / Triple Axel / Wave Crash / Brave Bird / anything tbh

Clears hazards and can sweep if it gets a solid opportunity. It's best at switching in against low HP opponents when it can, in which case Aqua Jet becomes a very safe and rewarding option, picking up the KO, clearing hazards, and getting a free dragon dance boost if they stay in, and still effectively just being rapid spin if they switch out. Aqua step lets you get to +2 speed in a single turn, Close Combat is your main attack once you've gotten some boosts, and your 4th moveslot can either be coverage or U-turn in case you need to get out after clearing hazards.

Toxapex

Set

Toxapex @ infestation
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Baneful Bunker
- Toxic
- Chilling Water/Surf

The team's main special wall. Traps and KOs some potentially dangerous and/or annoying pokemon such as Heatran, Dondozo, and some Iron Valiant sets. It also switches in for free against Pecharunt, and proceeds to trap and poison whatever Pecharunt pivots into. It can deal with Iron Valiant if it's healthy and the Iron Valiant is not running Psyshock. It also easily switches in on special fire moves, letting it cover for Skarmory.

Skarmory

Set

Skarmory @ bodypress
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 228 HP / 252 Def / 28 Spe
Bold Nature
- Iron Defense
- Brave Bird
- Flash Cannon
- Roost

Physical wall and mixed wallbreaker at the same time. It's probably outclassed by Corviknight in many cases, but it's higher speed and defence lets it be a greater threat to the other team's walls, being faster than plenty of them and dealing absurd damage with STAB Brave Bird off of it's potentially boosted 140 base defence. Flash Cannon lets it hit physical walls, such as other Body Press users. 28 Speed lets it outspeed everyone who's using the recommended spread. It still eats hits with ease of course, switching in on most physical attackers, as well as Serperior.

The worst matchups for this team are Iron Valiant and Psychic Terrain, with Iron Valiant especially requiring hazards to be cleared and Skarmory, Latias, or Toxapex to get in with full HP to deal with it, 2 of which not even working if it gets a Charge Beam boost.

tldr; ban valiant pls

Edit: gg lappy6, and pansears

Images

 

[ponchlake]

U-Turn is restricted. Greninja is unbanned and Volt Switch is unrestricted in Fortemons.
​

You can all rejoice because U-Turn is now restricted. We've also decided to unrestrict Volt Switch since the list of users is less offensive than the Flip Turn roster (looking at the Hydro Cannon spammers and Latios Draco Meteors). Since U-Turn has been hit, we're going to unban Greninja since its main gimmick was U-Turn + Protean.

Kris poke for implement

 

[BoringHumour]

May I ask what is happening at this battle

Present as Item Rollout as Move
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2038824532

 

[Dahness]

U-Turn is restricted. Greninja is unbanned and Volt Switch is unrestricted in Fortemons.
​

You can all rejoice because U-Turn is now restricted. We've also decided to unrestrict Volt Switch since the list of users is less offensive than the Flip Turn roster (looking at the Hydro Cannon spammers and Latios Draco Meteors). Since U-Turn has been hit, we're going to unban Greninja since its main gimmick was U-Turn + Protean.

Kris poke for implement

rip lokix, it's been a good run

 

[Exotic - Alter]

they just killed my boy lokix

 

[quagsirefan888]

I may as well post my team, I'm pretty proud of it and it's proven to be pretty consistent outside of a couple of problem matchups.


https://pokepast.es/32559b4180d3658f

Nothing on the team is particularly special, it's just a well rounded team with some sets I like.

Sandy Shocks

Set

Sandy Shocks @ scorchingsands
Ability: Protosynthesis
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt

This team's main lead. It has a good matchup into some common leads like Samurott-H and Glimmora, outspeeding both and having a 75% chance to OHKO Samurott with Volt Switch while only taking around 40% from Aqua Jet. It's also a great pivot to have throughout the midgame, being able to switch in on any slower pokemon and get rocks up, do good damage, and likely get a burn or two with Volt Switch. It also serves as this team's answer to Raging Bolt, who would otherwise be a near unwinnable matchup. Lastly, it can switch into either of this team's defensive walls to get out of bad matchups, pivoting into Skarmory against ground or grass moves, and Toxapex against water moves.

Latias

Set

Latias (F) @ drainingkiss
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Recover / Dragon Pulse
- Mist Ball
- Aura Sphere / Dragon Pulse

Special attacker who's good at everything. Latias can switch in on plenty of attacks due to it's typing and ability covering for the Electric, Fire, and Ground weaknesses seen on the other members of the team. From there it's a fast, decently hard hitting attacker who makes amazing use of Draining Kiss to keep itself healthy and win 1v1s, being able to heal around 30% from most attacks even without a CM boost. If it finds an opportunity to get some CM boosts it becomes extremely difficult to take down, easily tanking special attacks and most physical attacks, then healing whatever HP it lost back by OHKO-ing the opponent. As for bad matchups, it's kind of helpless against Gholdengo, instantly forced to switch out by Lokix, and while it can OHKO Iron Valiant with Mist Ball it needs to be at full HP to survive moonblast before doing so. Still, it's a very versatile pokemon that's will be useful throughout the entire match.

Lokix

Set

Lokix @ uturn
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- Throat Chop
- Leech Life
- Sucker Punch

The perfect revenge killer. Not exactly the most complicated set, but it's certainly effective. You click First Impression, deal way too much damage for a bug move off of 102 base attack, and leave before they can hit you. If you KO with First Impression you get to bring in whatever you want for absolutely free, if you don't KO you should probably bring in Toxapex or Skarmory. The other 3 moves are rarely going to get used. Adamant nature lets it do some more damage, with the only drawback being that it means opposing Lokix outspeed you and force you to switch, as opposed to being a 50/50 of which Lokix dies.

Quaquaval

Set

Quaquaval @ rapidspin
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aqua Step
- Aqua Jet
- Close Combat
- U-turn / Triple Axel / Wave Crash / Brave Bird / anything tbh

Clears hazards and can sweep if it gets a solid opportunity. It's best at switching in against low HP opponents when it can, in which case Aqua Jet becomes a very safe and rewarding option, picking up the KO, clearing hazards, and getting a free dragon dance boost if they stay in, and still effectively just being rapid spin if they switch out. Aqua step lets you get to +2 speed in a single turn, Close Combat is your main attack once you've gotten some boosts, and your 4th moveslot can either be coverage or U-turn in case you need to get out after clearing hazards.

Toxapex

Set

Toxapex @ infestation
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Baneful Bunker
- Toxic
- Chilling Water/Surf

The team's main special wall. Traps and KOs some potentially dangerous and/or annoying pokemon such as Heatran, Dondozo, and some Iron Valiant sets. It also switches in for free against Pecharunt, and proceeds to trap and poison whatever Pecharunt pivots into. It can deal with Iron Valiant if it's healthy and the Iron Valiant is not running Psyshock. It also easily switches in on special fire moves, letting it cover for Skarmory.

Skarmory

Set

Skarmory @ bodypress
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 228 HP / 252 Def / 28 Spe
Bold Nature
- Iron Defense
- Brave Bird
- Flash Cannon
- Roost

Physical wall and mixed wallbreaker at the same time. It's probably outclassed by Corviknight in many cases, but it's higher speed and defence lets it be a greater threat to the other team's walls, being faster than plenty of them and dealing absurd damage with STAB Brave Bird off of it's potentially boosted 140 base defence. Flash Cannon lets it hit physical walls, such as other Body Press users. 28 Speed lets it outspeed everyone who's using the recommended spread. It still eats hits with ease of course, switching in on most physical attackers, as well as Serperior.

The worst matchups for this team are Iron Valiant and Psychic Terrain, with Iron Valiant especially requiring hazards to be cleared and Skarmory, Latias, or Toxapex to get in with full HP to deal with it, 2 of which not even working if it gets a Charge Beam boost.

tldr; ban valiant pls

Edit: gg lappy6, and pansears

Images

View attachment 594041View attachment 594049

U-Turn is restricted. Greninja is unbanned and Volt Switch is unrestricted in Fortemons.
​

You can all rejoice because U-Turn is now restricted. We've also decided to unrestrict Volt Switch since the list of users is less offensive than the Flip Turn roster (looking at the Hydro Cannon spammers and Latios Draco Meteors). Since U-Turn has been hit, we're going to unban Greninja since its main gimmick was U-Turn + Protean.

Kris poke for implement

7 hours and it's already outdated, unfortunate

anyway, i've been trying to think of replacements for lokix and i think i've come up with an interesting idea for a revenge killer

Arcanine-Hisui @ Retaliate
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Head Smash
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat

on the turn after a KO you get 160 BP extreme speed, or if they're slower the absurdly powerful 240 BP stab flare blitz or 300 BP stab head smash

 

[SomeJibbaHuff]

There is a bug with itemized Psychic Noise where it prevents healing for longer than two turns. From what I've seen, it can last forever until switching out.

 

[ZarbyXar]

(Paradox)
Iron Boulder @ Mighty Cleave
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Psycho Cut

Please don’t use this set. The sacred sword set doesn’t get walled by body press mons. Running sacred sword on a move slot isn’t anywhere near enough because it lacks power. Also forgoing mighty cleave as a move just is horrible. You’re better off using mighty cleave against protect since not many Pokemon with protect can take it.

 

[ponchlake]

There is a bug with itemized Psychic Noise where it prevents healing for longer than two turns. From what I've seen, it can last forever until switching out.

There is no bug. It’s working properly and as intended by the code.

 

[Dark Koopatrol]

There is no bug. It’s working properly and as intended by the code.

To add to this, all Psychic Noise does it inflict the Heal Block status, which lasts for 5 turns by default but gets changed to 2 turns if you're using Psychic Noise. Holding Psychic Noise allows you to inflict Heal Block with a move that isn't Psychic Noise, so the game doesn't set it to 2 turns and lasts the default 5.

 

[All Lice]

U-Turn is restricted. Greninja is unbanned and Volt Switch is unrestricted in Fortemons.
​

You can all rejoice because U-Turn is now restricted. We've also decided to unrestrict Volt Switch since the list of users is less offensive than the Flip Turn roster (looking at the Hydro Cannon spammers and Latios Draco Meteors). Since U-Turn has been hit, we're going to unban Greninja since its main gimmick was U-Turn + Protean.

Kris poke for implement

Of course when I post a team it immediately becomes outdated. Good riddance if I'm being honest though. One less set Dragapult can run!

Volt Switch is an interesting unban too since it's users are a bit more narrow than u-turn or flip.


Can pivot with prio using thunderclap or slow pivot + phaze with dragon tail. Also a fine draco spammer. Just really slow vs previous abusers. It also means your giving up on other, probably better sets


Fully plays into the hit and run role vs the rapid spin forte. Saves rapid spin for Exca and Quaq I guess but you lose out on spinning in front of ghosts. Espeed means it'll never have to sponge a hit until end game too. Hyper Beam is now free to spam as well which is something even if the best ground in the meta is also part steel.


Has better coverage than the rest including god damn scald and aura sphere but doesn't have any big hitter moves like the old u-turners. Notably it occupies the best speed tier among the potentially relevant volt switchers not named Regieleki (Jolteon and Zeb aren't real, Kilo is sadly copium, and I refuse to acknowledge Hisuian Electrode as good)


Overheat go brrrrrrrrr


It's Mew. It does whatever you want. It has all the recharge and stat drop moves so your at no shortage for coverage and has good bulk to sponge the hits it'll take with it's middling speed. The big issue here is that it doesn't get stab on any of the relevant moves for a pivot set meaning it'll only do okayish damage even with high bp moves. It still might just be worse than phazing Mew anyways (lmao Metronome)

I don't think any of these will be as strong or as miserable to play vs as the better u-turners but will still have a valuable niche as mons that provide insane momentum while chunking huge amounts of damage.

EDIT: In my scatterbrained haste I forgot some words

 

[Schpoonman]

Has better coverage than the rest including god damn scald and aura sphere but doesn't have any big hitter moves like the old u-turners. Notably it

Think you dropped some words at the end.

 

[InkyDarkBird]

Samurott-Hisui deserves to be banned from Fortemons due to its unpunishable pivots and nearly free Spikes.

Samurott-Hisui is extremely powerful with Ceaseless Edge as its item boosting all of its moves by 1.5x with Sharpness. This, paired with Flip Turn, allows it to easily chip down any Pokemon that switches into it as well as pivoting out of any counters while dropping down a Spike. Since Lokix is nearly unviable with the restriction of U-Turn, there are essentially zero ways to stop Samurott-Hisui from pivoting all over your team and dropping hazards. It can easily switch it to walls such as Alomomola, Corviknight, and Slowking-Galar and pivot out to a counter that prevents the opponent from sending out their Rapid Spinner. In addition, the current best Rapid Spinners, Quaquaval and Excadrill, suffer from their low speed and Excadrill is borderline useless against Samurott-Hisui due to its fragility and weakness to Water.

252 Atk Samurott-Hisui Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Excadrill on a critical hit: 260-308 (72 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(critical hit is to assume Sharpness)

Samurott-Hisui requires nearly zero skill to play as it is mainly consisted of spamming Flip Turn over and over and over to get free chip damage and hazards. It is uncreative, boring, and uncompetitive.

 

[Catcus111111111111]

Samurott-Hisui deserves to be banned from Fortemons due to its unpunishable pivots and nearly free Spikes.

Samurott-Hisui is extremely powerful with Ceaseless Edge as its item boosting all of its moves by 1.5x with Sharpness. This, paired with Flip Turn, allows it to easily chip down any Pokemon that switches into it as well as pivoting out of any counters while dropping down a Spike. Since Lokix is nearly unviable with the restriction of U-Turn, there are essentially zero ways to stop Samurott-Hisui from pivoting all over your team and dropping hazards. It can easily switch it to walls such as Alomomola, Corviknight, and Slowking-Galar and pivot out to a counter that prevents the opponent from sending out their Rapid Spinner. In addition, the current best Rapid Spinners, Quaquaval and Excadrill, suffer from their low speed and Excadrill is borderline useless against Samurott-Hisui due to its fragility and weakness to Water.

252 Atk Samurott-Hisui Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Excadrill on a critical hit: 260-308 (72 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(critical hit is to assume Sharpness)

Samurott-Hisui requires nearly zero skill to play as it is mainly consisted of spamming Flip Turn over and over and over to get free chip damage and hazards. It is uncreative, boring, and uncompetitive.

Samurott is the best pokemon in the tier, but it isn't primarily because of its Damage. Quaquaval resists its stabs, speed ties with it and KOs it with CC and Excadrill Can at least Two shot it with Earthquake. Its low speed makes vulnerable to most revenge killers too. while I'm not opposed to a ban, I feel like its main strength is how easily it set its spikes up if anything, and there is plenty of rapid spinners. Plus, it can act as a good check to a lot of popular body press users with sacred sword and it helps against the plethora of fast Offensive threats in the tier with its priority. So while there is a reason to ban it for its hazard setting, i don't think its damage is that bad, so I feel like if anything, we could just ban Ceaseless edge if it becomes too overwhelming.

 

[InkyDarkBird]

Samurott is the best pokemon in the tier, but it isn't primarily because of its Damage. Quaquaval resists its stabs, speed ties with it and KOs it with CC and Excadrill Can at least Two shot it with Earthquake. Its low speed makes vulnerable to most revenge killers too. while I'm not opposed to a ban, I feel like its main strength is how easily it set its spikes up if anything, and there is plenty of rapid spinners. Plus, it can act as a good check to a lot of popular body press users with sacred sword and it helps against the plethora of fast Offensive threats in the tier with its priority. So while there is a reason to ban it for its hazard setting, i don't think its damage is that bad, so I feel like if anything, we could just ban Ceaseless edge if it becomes too overwhelming.

If one Pokemon only knows a move and is considered bannable, the general practice is to that Pokemon and not the move. Look at Meowscarada's ban.
Excadrill is 2HKOed by Aqua Jet and OHKOed by Flip Turn. It cannot reliably face Samurott-Hisui whatsoever.
Revenge killers barely have opportunities to directly face Samurott-Hisui since, as I said before, it mainly just spams Flip Turn to get unpunishable chip damage and hazards. Samurott-Hisui being able to "check" Body Press users just goes to show how even the most bulky offensive Pokemon cannot compete with it. Its fast priority is far too oppressive, as it can beat Dragapult and Lati@s with ease while getting up more free hazards. The mere threat of a Sucker Punch allows people to predict a switch and use Flip Turn and easily get a free Spike.

To add another point, Slowking-Galar having to run Heavy-Duty Boots of all items in order to survive Spikes just shows how effective and easy it is to get up Spikes and deter Rapid Spinners with Samurott-Hisui.

 

[Catcus111111111111]

If one Pokemon only knows a move and is considered bannable, the general practice is to that Pokemon and not the move. Look at Meowscarada's ban.
Excadrill is 2HKOed by Aqua Jet and OHKOed by Flip Turn. It cannot reliably face Samurott-Hisui whatsoever.
Revenge killers barely have opportunities to directly face Samurott-Hisui since, as I said before, it mainly just spams Flip Turn to get unpunishable chip damage and hazards. Samurott-Hisui being able to "check" Body Press users just goes to show how even the most bulky offensive Pokemon cannot compete with it. Its fast priority is far too oppressive, as it can beat Dragapult and Lati@s with ease while getting up more free hazards. The mere threat of a Sucker Punch allows people to predict a switch and use Flip Turn and easily get a free Spike.

To add another point, Slowking-Galar having to run Heavy-Duty Boots of all items in order to survive Spikes just shows how effective and easy it is to get up Spikes and deter Rapid Spinners with Samurott-Hisui.

You have a good point, and if we aren't banning ceaseless edge, then I do support a samurott ban. But I also feel like we could just take away ceaseless edge. Without it, all Samurott offers is pretty good power with priority instead of that and free spikes. However, banning samurott would also make sense since banning ceaseless edge would just be a nerf to samurott.
Also, what I meant by checking BP users is that it can use sacred sword to ignore iron defense while punishing roosts from Corv and Skarm. Outside of that Samurott can't take hits from them.

 

[LoDart210]

Hi, not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but I had a match recently, and I hit a Ribombee (presumably with Giga Drain in the item slot) with Heat Crash with my Gouging Flame (which had temper flare in the item slot) and for some reason the move did absolutely nothing. Is this a known issue? What exactly went wrong here? https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2040233814-cdjvsjybomizypqqrr3awe5uwlfec7qpw

 

[Djarian]

Hi, not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but I had a match recently, and I hit a Ribombee (presumably with Giga Drain in the item slot) with Heat Crash with my Gouging Flame (which had temper flare in the item slot) and for some reason the move did absolutely nothing. Is this a known issue? What exactly went wrong here? https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2040233814-cdjvsjybomizypqqrr3awe5uwlfec7qpw

Moves like Temper Flare and Echoed Voice seems to do this (Echoed Voice on Maushold) to moves with “-“ base power. I assume it overrides moves like Heat Crash and Low Kick, and multiplies their starting zero power by 2 or whatever the multiplier is. In this example battle, Low Kick doesn’t even gain 40 base power, which I presume is because the game considers it a status move.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2040267052

 

[Toxtection]

What's up with turn 1 Sacred Sword clickers? Do ppl wanna risk the entire game on a 50/50 turn 1? Do they think they're the only ones with Sacred Sword?

Here's the scenario I'm referring to:

1. Both go Sam-H
2. Both click Sacred Sword
3. One side loses the speed tie and starts the game 5v6 facing a spike, which is completely lost if the winning side is any good

I should really run scarf megahorn for the memes...

I don't get it, is too valuable to risk it like that imo.

There's not really a good way to punish such brainless play besides wisp-hex pult

Note that yes you can EV yourself to always live Adamant Sacred Sword but then they can do the same and the same scenario happens on turn 2, both samus are weakened, someone is gonna lose the speed tie/be slower and get into a losing position after

To further InkyDarkBird's point about Samu, here's a few examples of an average game:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2040578648
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2040533604

(these were pretty terrible showcases of Riolu, because who needs gimmicks when you can wipe the floor with overpowered pokemon)



How do you even stop this mon? Hyper Beam does too much to most checks, Excadrill taking 30% plus potentially spikes damage gets worn down too quickly and that's one of the best answers to eleki. Thundurus-T gets 2 HKO'd by Hyper Beam after Volt Absorb Recovery from the 2nd Thunderbolt

 

[Schpoonman]

What's up with turn 1 Sacred Sword clickers? Do ppl wanna risk the entire game on a 50/50 turn 1? Do they think they're the only ones with Sacred Sword?

Here's the scenario I'm referring to:

1. Both go Sam-H
2. Both click Sacred Sword
3. One side loses the speed tie and starts the game 5v6 facing a spike, which is completely lost if the winning side is any good

I should really run scarf megahorn for the memes...

Fear is for the weak, this is the only way I can feel alive anymore. Also you wouldn't even need Megahorn, just click Scarf Sharpness Sacred Sword, it hits harder without missing.

I feel like Hamurott is actually keeping a lot of problem mons in check right now just from Sharpness-boosted moves, but setting Spikes on every attack on top is too much. Flip Turn spam is a real problem, there's not enough Pokemon that can stuff the Flip Turn entirely to prevent Spikes. I'm looking for a replacement for Tatsugiri, by the way. Base 82 Speed sucks when the most important Pokemon in the metagame is base 85 and the Water immunity doesn't matter when you explode from Throat Chop or Sucker Punch. We might be starting a cascade if Hamurott goes, but it's what the tier needs to grow.

Speaking of growing the tier, U-turn's ban and Volt Switch and Flip Turn being freed just have highlighted to me how pivoting moves all need to be nuked. Bypassing recharge turns, spamming priority to chip down Pokemon without a chance at retaliating. I know we have One Forte Clause, but having two moves has effectively doubled the number of pivoters per team. Dragon Tail and Circle Throw should also definitely get nuked for being uncompetitive. Metronome is definitely absurd (in every sense of the word), I've also seen Rest Talk Mew with Trailblaze and Flame Charge, and you just mentioned Riolu. Pokemon is a two-player game, get this shit out of the tier.

 

[Raoul Sanchez]

I'm all for a Hamu ban as being able to set up free spikes in an OM centered around forsaking held items for an extra effect to your moves means you're forcing yourself to take spikes dmg on your mons switch in or give up access on to the OMs effect to ensure no hazard damage for some of your pokemon by running heavy duty boots. Rapid spinners aren't that good in the tier due to having unfavorable matchups against the number 1 mon in the tier right now. Yes there is quaquaval but just like the usual fortemon games go Hamu has healthy teammate(s) in the back that deals with quaquaval and force it out which is fine since qua has taken chip dmg which eventually leads to it not being a Hamu check anymore unless you're giving up a moveslot on quaquaval to run roost.

On the other hand I can say right away that if Hisuian Samurott is banned that you're going to have to look at mons like Dragapult and Deoxys Speed since the only mon that keeping them from sweeping is Hisuian Samurott. Bear in mind that if the Dragapult is running wisp it will happily take advantage of Samurott sole dark stab typically used sucker punch by burning it to make it more manageable for Pult's teammates.

tl;dr Hisuian Samurott should be banned as others like Inky can attest to it being too much for the OM. Setting free hazards and the opponents is now forced to create an opening for their hazard removal pokemon to come in and temporarily (once Hisuian Samurott is alive as it will always be able to get back up spikes) solve the problem or give up the general premise of the OM to run heavy duty boots since knock off is non existent. Banning this Pokémon creates a power vacuum to let Dragapult and Deoxys Speed to run amok.

 

[Lectrys]

On the other hand I can say right away that if Hisuian Samurott is banned that you're going to have to look at mons like Dragapult and Deoxys Speed since the only mon that keeping them from sweeping is Hisuian Samurott.

<snip>

Banning this Pokémon creates a power vacuum to let Dragapult and Deoxys Speed to run amok.

I haven't encountered that many Deoxys-S or tried it myself, but I've tried and encountered Dragapult quite a bit and I'm actually of the opinion that Dragapult should be A+ instead of S tier.

Samurott-H is not the only (non-Pult) Pokemon preventing Pult from sweeping. I've threatened to OHKO Pult quite a lot with Absorb Forte Goodra-H and yes, the mon can tank a Hex Forte hit or two while statused. Dialga-O plays a similar role and even manages to hit random stuff like Ceruledge harder than Goodra-H does. I've crashed into Kingambit a bunch on ladder despite that mon's Forte list actually not being all that good (put it this way - there's a Same Six Fortemons roomtour in Tours Plaza on Showdown every so often, and my Kingambit's Forte there is the situational Facade), and Supreme Overlord still lets Kingambit tear really big holes. Payback Forte Ting-Lu tears much bigger holes than it does in OU and really should be running Throat Chop. There's also offensive counterplay to Pult such as Quaquaval getting +1 in Speed on some random it forces out and then threatening to OHKO Pult with Triple Axel (this has happened to me the Pult user more times than I like to admit).

Hex Forte Pult (what I currently use to fix a weakness to Alomomola and other bulky waters) wants status support too much. Assurance Forte Pult is boosting only one move with that Forte (Dragon Darts). U-turn Forte Pult needs bulkier teammates and hits like a pansy compared to even Choice Specs Pult. (Ah wait, we banned U-turn from the Forte slot.) I have seriously considered Specs Pult instead of Hex Forte Pult. I guess Light Clay Pult may be underrated.

Darkrai at least resists Sucker Punch and snowballs quite hard with Charge Beam Forte. Samurott-H warps other mons' EVs around it (e.g. the Regieleki set I posted earlier). Slowking-G at least survives hits it shouldn't and packs the nice police move Psychic Noise. Pult has a hard time snowballing and is no longer the fastest mon in Fortemons, which means it no longer warps Speed EVs around it as much as it used to. Pult doesn't look S tier to me.

 

[LoDart210]

Moves like Temper Flare and Echoed Voice seems to do this (Echoed Voice on Maushold) to moves with “-“ base power. I assume it overrides moves like Heat Crash and Low Kick, and multiplies their starting zero power by 2 or whatever the multiplier is. In this example battle, Low Kick doesn’t even gain 40 base power, which I presume is because the game considers it a status move.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2040267052

I see, thanks for the explanation. That actually makes a lot of sense. I didn't consider that the lack of power on heat crash might bungle things up. Guess I have to run flare blitz. It's not a terribly impressive set anyway. It mostly relies on mindgames.

What's up with turn 1 Sacred Sword clickers? Do ppl wanna risk the entire game on a 50/50 turn 1? Do they think they're the only ones with Sacred Sword?

Here's the scenario I'm referring to:

1. Both go Sam-H
2. Both click Sacred Sword
3. One side loses the speed tie and starts the game 5v6 facing a spike, which is completely lost if the winning side is any good

I should really run scarf megahorn for the memes...

I don't get it, is too valuable to risk it like that imo.

There's not really a good way to punish such brainless play besides wisp-hex pult

Note that yes you can EV yourself to always live Adamant Sacred Sword but then they can do the same and the same scenario happens on turn 2, both samus are weakened, someone is gonna lose the speed tie/be slower and get into a losing position after

To further InkyDarkBird's point about Samu, here's a few examples of an average game:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2040578648
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2040533604

(these were pretty terrible showcases of Riolu, because who needs gimmicks when you can wipe the floor with overpowered pokemon)



How do you even stop this mon? Hyper Beam does too much to most checks, Excadrill taking 30% plus potentially spikes damage gets worn down too quickly and that's one of the best answers to eleki. Thundurus-T gets 2 HKO'd by Hyper Beam after Volt Absorb Recovery from the 2nd Thunderbolt

That second replay was really funny. I'm always impressed by people that can use crafty strategies like that.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Full House - Two peaks & three teams

peak proof

Gooood morning everybody! I've played a lot of Fortemons this month and managed to peak the ladder with two accounts, using three different teams.

To explain what I mean with the full house I peaked the ladder using three different teams. I initially peaked the ladder with the Corviknight + Alomomola balanced team. I wanted to explore other archtypes and fell down to the 1400s on the ladder before I created the HO Volcanion team, which led me to peak the ladder for a second time. I then began laddering with my alt "Its GOS(Grains of Salt)" and experimenting with stall. This lead to my HDB team which is by far the strongest and most consistent of the three. I've only lost 3 games using this team in its final iteration - this will therefore be the main focus of this post.

Introduction:
Fortemons is defined by hazards, much like the entire generation. There's key reasons for this. Hazards are simultaneously easy to setup and easy to remove. There's multiple great hazard setters and great hazard removers. Hazards are also more dangerous as few pokemon carry heavy dute boots or leftovers.

All three teams were therefore built around this defining aspect of Fortemons, each exploiting the prevailing meta in their own ways.

1# Peak Alomomola + Cinderace Balance

Team 1: Balanced Corviknight + Alomomola

This team was built around Wish-passing Alomomola for longevity and HDB Cinderace for hazard controll. The team functions best if you're comfortable making bold predictins to make progress and to keep up offensive pressure. Scald Alomomolas job is to check many common offensive threads (Samurott H, Lokix, Excadrill & Quaq), spread burns and support the team with wish. Cinderaces presence makes your opponent think twice about setting up hazards. Cinderace also checks offensive threats such as Iron Valient, Dragapult and Serperior with Sucker Punch and Pyro Ball. Excadrill is the best method of hazard controll in the current metagame, and if you get an SD-up it can easily sweep. Dragapult was an obvious inclusion as a pivot, wallbreaker and speed controll. Dragapult is good for the same reason its good everywhere: speed, power and a great typing. Corviknight and Raging Bolt are the main sweepers on the team. Iron Defence mixed Corviknight auto-wins if you're not prepared for it and with Alomomola + Corviknight you wall most of the physical threats in the meta. Raging Bolt was the last inclusion on the team and it really pushed it from good to great. With wish from Alomomola and its naturally good bulk it can stay in the game for a long time. There's very few viable ground types (Excadrill, Ting-Lu and Gliscor) running around right now, and the former two lack recovery and all three are setup fodder for Corviknight. Raging Bolt can clean up weakened teams and checks sweepers with Thunder Clap.

It's impossible to check everything and this iteration of the team is particularly weak to Primarina - although you can use Gunk Shot on Cinderace if you want. However, this means you're weak to other things depending on what you give up. As I stated before this team is best used if you're comfortable making bold plays to keep up momentum.

2# Peak Hazard stacking + Volcanion



certified "cheap and easy" by Blundern, Joey and CTC

Team 2: HO Hazards + Volcanion

The idea here was to build a hyper offense team that 1) constantly setup hazards, and 2) where each member could threaten the common hazard removers. Currently, the best spinners are Excadrill, Quag, Glimmora, Regieleki and Cyclizar. None of these pokemon can safely switch into any member of my team.

By setting up hazards you pressure your opponent into bringing out their hazard remover. Because each member can threaten the common spinners in the tier they will often be forced to sacrifice their spinner in the process. This clears a path for one of the other hazard setters to set up their own hazards. This makes for very quick paced games where you either sweep or get swept - as is usually goes with hyper offense teams.

Samurott-H, Ribombee and Glimmora are fairly self explanatory additions on this team. I highlighted Volcanion is a previous post as it's one of the most fun mons to use right now. It's an excellent mixed wallbreaker with body press. Duel stabs + Earthquake & Wild Charge covers much of the metagame. Balanced teams struggle to switch into it and offensive teams get swept if Sticky Web is up. Life Orb Landorus-I is quite solid as a fast all out attacking ground type as most people expect it to be physical.

3# Heavy Duty Boots Stall


The team I'm most proud of and easily the best of the three.

As Highv0ltag3 said, quoting juliusfunnel, in his ultimate stall rmt the goal of this team is the same as any other stall team, to check every threat possible on the opponents team. While Fortemons differs from OU substantially, the idea behind stall does not. There is no tera in Fortemons, which is both a blessing and a curse. However, knock off and trick is virtually never seen either.

Motivation and General idea:
My motivation for this team was to exploit the lack of item removal methods in the metagame to kneecap offensive teams overly relient on hazards to make progress. Except for Gliscor and Corviknight every team member runs HDB. Not having to worry about hazards throughout the entire team gives the team the breathing space to outlast most offensive threats. Even if your opponent runs knock off Corviknight or Gliscor is able to absorb it.


Individual team roles:

The premier special wall and cleric on the team. As the bulkiest special wall on the team Blissey gives you a wall/check to non-psyshock Iron Valiant, slow Primarina, Serperior, Dragapult, Iron Moth, Volcarona, Enamorus, Landorus-I, Tornadus-T, Latios, Raging Bolt etc. The speed investment is to outspeed bulky Primarina to heal before they can hit you with Psychic Noise. The mixed defence investments is to wall the many mixed body press threats - such as Volcanion. Although I considered running shadow ball + stealth rock over calm mind + hyper voice I would then lose to Primarina.

The premier physical wall and one half of the unaware core. Physical defensive Dondozo walls most physically offensive threats common in the metagame. Although it walls much of the metagame you should be wary of switching it in to often as it relies on rest for recovery. If you switch it into flip turn from Samurott-H too often it can be worn down. Curse is used to turn certain 3HKOs into 4HKOs, such as Dragon Dart Dragapult. If you face Excadrill then Dondozo should be kept especially health as Rock slide flinches + moldbreaker can break the team - though Excadrill can only setup an SD vs. Blissey/Clodsire.

The teams general multipurpose tool, pivot and paralyzis spreader. Zapdos gives the team a solid counter to mixed iron defence Corviknight/Skarmory as well as a way to spread paralyzis with static. Since many item slotted moves make contact (Body press, rapid spin, draining kiss etc) Zapdos has lots of opportunities to spread paralyzis. Facing teams that constantly pivot with u-turn/volt switch static gives you a chance to throw a wrench in their gameplan and cripple important pokemon.

The teams main wincondition for the team. If you've managed to spread enough poison and paralyzis with the team you can break through with flinches from Iron head or Air Slash. With the exception of opposing Zapdos there's always a chance to break your opponents team with a lucky flinch. Together with Gliscor this can also absorb knock off - if you ever were to face it.

The teams hazard setter and toxic spreader. I usually lead Gliscor and play around my opponents team to scout out their sets with protect. If your opponent runs Regieleki as their spinner this usually means you'll continously be able to keep spikes up. Quaq can force it out with Ice spinner, but if you're able to toxic on the swithc its lack of healing will eventually wear it down. Excadrill will always fear earthquake and is therefore not a reliable hazard remover either. Gliscor has enough bulk to live some hits from Primarina, depending on the move and their investment, and get off a toxic.

The other half of the unaware core. Clodsire gives the team another special wall. With amnesia + poison jab you wall Serperior and check certain stored powered users (such as Deoxys-D). Its also the best way to wall to Iron valiant, given its not running psyshock. In a pinch it can also help versus physical setup sweepers if Dondozo gets weakened by OHKOing or poisoning with poison jab.

Threats:
Hex

Mixed attacking Dragapult with Dragon Darts, Shadow ball and will-o-wisp can deal massive damage to everything on my team. It's very difficult to play around, often making me sack a mon to status it.
Acid Spray

I got absolutely rocked by Acid Spray nasty plot Pecharunt once. My team really has no good way to handle it as its immune to hyper voice and has the bulk to live earthquake from Gliscor.

Draining Kiss

If this thing is faster than Blissey and has psychic noise then its a good chance it wins. If you can toxic it with Gliscor you have a chance to wear it down, but its still very dangerous.

Replays Stall HDB

I don't have a lot of replays saved so this is the best I got.
Vs. Offensive Hex Dragapult & Iron Valiant: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2041249920
Vs. Acid spray Slowking and hex Dragapult - almost lost but got lucky in the end & correctly predicted SD from Excadrill. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2041302417
Vs. Iron Valiant + Psychich Noise Slowking https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2041314050
Loss: Stupidly sacked Gliscor turn 3, had no way to make progress through Rotom-W and got worn down. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2041322877