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Metagame Frantic Fusions | Survey @ Post #484!

Imw0rstadP0keM0n said:
So you just decided to post a college thesis, this ignoring this is the "Frantic Fusions
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... Instead of addressing any of my points I made in my post you decide to ignore them and make fun of it for its length and cherrypicked a quote without any context given. Congratulations, you've proved the point I made in my post. I do not need to say anything further, I couldn't have even made up a better example for it.
 
Yikes, not sure what just happened. I think the OM is tons of fun with a lot of variety. We have a lot of time as the OMotM and I hope that brings a lot of fresh ideas along with the dlc pokes. We should be focusing on that, and in that vein I appreciate the councils quick ban action on Moth and Boulder. Thanks for a generally thankless job done in a responsive manner.
 
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rampardos (Cinderace) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pyro Ball
- U-turn
- High Jump Kick / Gunk Shot / Iron Head
- Sucker Punch

This set is insaneeee. Sheer force/life orb boosted pyro ball with rampardos +40 donation to cinderace attack stat. It 1kho 75% of neutral resists and 2hko the rest. This thing has single handedly carried me to high ladder. Youre kidding yourself if you think Tusk is a switch-in

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sylveon (Polteageist) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pixilate
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Shadow Ball
- Stored Power
- Tera Blast

This set is more gimmicky but polteageist can now fight back against dark types with pixilate boosted terablast. Ive had a couple sweeps with this thing and its always very satisfying. It also gets a nice SpA boost from sylveon making it extra threatening
 
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big miike said:
:cinderace:
rampardos (Cinderace) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pyro Ball
- U-turn
- High Jump Kick
- Sucker Punch

This set is insaneeee. Sheer force/life orb boosted pyro ball with rampardos +40 donation to cinderace attack stat. It 1kho 75% of neutral resists and 2hko the rest. This thing has single handedly carried me to high ladder. Youre kidding yourself if you think Tusk is a switch-in
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Don't forget about moves like Gunk Shot/Iron Head, those also do massive damage. SF-boosted Gunk Shot sometimes does enough damage to OHKO certain Dragon-types that would otherwise resist your Pyro Ball and kill you in retaliation. Also I would argue that Life Orb U-Turn might not be the best course of action as you would sometimes be taking more damage from the Life Orb recoil than you would be dealing with the move.
 
What a fucking loser.

Anyways, how are people feeling about Roaring Moon? Imo its easily one of the scariest Pokemon to account for due to how versatile it is and the fact that counterplay tends to vary set to set.
I've encountered the usual TClaws Band set, but ive been seeing Grea Tusk variants with Booster Arco of all things, many to use the various Defensive Klawf Tusks as set up bait with Acro.

Great Tusk (Roaring Moon) @ Booster Energy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Ability: Protosynthesis
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Knock Off
- Acrobatics
- Fire Fang

These variants hate facing Fluffy Iron Birds, but Fluffy Iron Birds hate being momentum sinks for Banded TClaws variants...seeing my point here. Scary how consistent of a set up sweeper it can be once the right checks are gone. And ofc god forbid your Iron Bird is like, a Hatterene variant. Its basically over.
 
Rain is really annoying imo, so I'm experimenting with Iron Treads to counter it.

Volcanion (Iron Treads) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 242 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Supercell Slam
- Earthquake
- Volt Switch

This is just to 1v1 any rain setter, for a more consistent switch-in that's less capable of 1v1-ing drizzle mons, fuse it with Tornadus-Therian.
 
G-Luke said:
Anyways, how are people feeling about Roaring Moon? Imo its easily one of the scariest Pokemon to account for due to how versatile it is and the fact that counterplay tends to vary set to set.
I've encountered the usual TClaws Band set, but ive been seeing Grea Tusk variants with Booster Arco of all things, many to use the various Defensive Klawf Tusks as set up bait with Acro.
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Personally my favourite is Scizor. Loaded Dice Scale Shot can really help turn around games in your favour if played right.

Scizor (Roaring Moon) @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Bite
- Scale Shot
- Earthquake (any other coverage move could work but this seem to be the better coverage most of the time)
 
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Bonsly (Treecko) @ Shell Bell
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 1
Tera Type: Grass
- Endeavor
- Quick Attack
- Leech Seed
- Endure/Substitute

It probably won't work on more experienced players and of course there's plenty of counters but it is a fairly unique facet of this meta since you can fit endeavor, leech seed, priority, and sturdy all on the same set. Shell bell is to have a chance at getting more value as long as you have hazard removal. Hazard support is also useful as it forces switches on a lot of stuff. Heavy-duty boots can also be used instead but I think magic guard with focus sash would be superior in that case.
 
PQRDG said:
Personally my favourite is Scizor. Loaded Dice Scale Shot can really help turn around games in your favour if played right.

Scizor (Roaring Moon) @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Bite
- Scale Shot
- Earthquake
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is bite really worth running over knock off? scale shot is already strong, idk if losing out on part of what makes moon so strong is worth for the extra power
 
:florges: + :archaludon: Archaludon (Florges) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish / Synthesis
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Moonblast

Base stats: 78/91/100/143/170/96

Really annoying stored power sweeper with ridiculous stats and a pretty good typing
 
Railroader17 said:
Oh boy this OM is coming back, and I have some chicanery for you all!

Mudsdale (Florges) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Stamina
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draining Kiss
- Stored Power
- Calm Mind
- Wish

Bases post fusion: 78/96/93/125/175/83, Total: 650

Used this set a little to some decent results. If your opponent couldn't get this thing off the field, they were very screwed as it could easily bulk up thanks to Stamina & Calm Mind to high heaven, blast them with Stored Power, with Draining Kiss and Wish for healing.

Except now, Mudsdale is out of a job, thanks to the newest Stamina mon in town, Archaludon!

Archaludon (Florges) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Stamina
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draining Kiss
- Stored Power
- Calm Mind
- Wish

Bases post fusion: 78/91/100/143/170/96, Total: 678

The loss of some SpDef kind of stings, but the Def boost is great, as is the MASSIVE boost to it's SpAtk so it can hit even harder.

Is it good? Maybe, TBH I haven't played this OM since the last time it was OM of the month. But it can make for a decent win con to catch your foe off guard.
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quagsirefan888 said:
:florges: + :archaludon: Archaludon (Florges) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish / Synthesis
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Moonblast

Base stats: 78/91/100/143/170/96

Really annoying stored power sweeper with ridiculous stats and a pretty good typing
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I've actually been using this myself (and even posted about it earlier in the thread. Though I've been running Draining Kiss over Moonblast for more HP recovery while maintaining offensive pressure.
 
I haven't seen anyone else share their personal VRs, so I might as well.
upper ranks are also going to get their fusions listed, with more niche options being unbolded.

S rank (ordered by viability)
:latios: Latios (Porygon-Z / Espeon)
:swampert: Swampert (Hydrapple / Slowking)

S- rank (ordered by viability)
:roaring moon: Roaring Moon (Lycanroc-Dusk)
:great tusk: Great Tusk (Tornadus-Therian / Klawf / Flamigo / Lycanroc-Dusk)
:gholdengo: Gholdengo (Latias / Latios / Heatran / Reuniclus)
:skarmory: Skarmory (Houndstone / Scrafty / Dachsbun)

A+ rank (ordered by viability)
:gouging fire: Gouging Fire (Clefable / Haxorus)
:corviknight: Corviknight (Houndstone / Scrafty / Dachsbun)
:raging bolt: Raging Bolt (Latios / Porygon-Z / Slowking-Galar)
:ogerpon-wellspring: Ogerpon-Wellspring (Basculin / Lokix)
:sneasler: Sneasler (Lycanroc-Dusk)
:samurott-hisui: Samurott-Hisui (Tornadus-Therian / Lycanroc-Dusk / Porygon-Z)

A rank (ordered by viability)
:archaludon: Archaludon (Hydrapple / Politoed / Porygon-Z)
:ogerpon-cornerstone: Ogerpon-Cornerstone (Basculin / Lokix / Bombirdier)
:dragonite: Dragonite (Cinderace / Meowscarada)
:excadrill: Excadrill (Tornadus-Therian / Hydrapple / Sneasler / Lycanroc-Dusk)
:iron treads: Iron Treads (Tornadus-Therian / Hydrapple)
:deoxys-defense: Deoxys-Defense (Dondozo / Hatterene / Scrafty / whatever you want)
:iron crown: Iron Crown (Archaludon / Gholdengo / Espeon)

A- rank (not ordered by viability)
:manaphy: Manaphy
:azelf: Azelf
:zapdos-galar: Zapdos-Galar
:alomomola: Alomomola
:kingambit: Kingambit
:pecharunt: Pecharunt
:goodra-hisui: Goodra-Hisui
:barraskewda: Barraskewda
:scream tail: Scream Tail
:ting-lu: Ting-Lu
:zapdos: Zapdos
:slither wing: Slither Wing

B+ rank (not ordered by viability)
:cinderace: Cinderace
:zoroark-hisui: Zoroark-Hisui
:enamorus-therian: Enamorus-Therian
:empoleon: Empoleon
:slowking: Slowking
:meowscarada: Meowscarada
:landorus-therian: Landorus-Therian
:dondozo: Dondozo
:ribombee: Ribombee
:ursaluna: Ursaluna

B rank (not ordered by viability)
:mandibuzz: Mandibuzz
:blissey: Blissey
:cobalion: Cobalion
:entei: Entei
:haxorus: Haxorus
:slowking-galar: Slowking-Galar
:gengar: Gengar
:meloetta: Meloetta
:electrode-hisui: Electrode-Hisui
:sneasel: Sneasel
:fezandipiti: Fezandipiti

:latios: Latios is not only the most threatening wallbreaker in the metagame, but it's the most splashable too. Even with only one Fusion it can easily catch all of its checks off guard with plenty of different options. Choice Specs, Choice Scarf, and Calm Mind are all incredibly effective no matter the team or matchup.
:swampert: Swampert is the most versatile RegenVest in the metagame with its great movepool, bulk, and typing letting it excel in every single game.
:roaring moon: The second best wallbreaker after Latios, Roaring Moon is far more straightforward. Choice Band sets are a nightmare to switch in to because of its ridiculous power and metagame defining speed tier, whereas Choice Scarf sets can outspeed almost any boosted threat while still being very powerful, making it a premier revenge killer.
:great tusk: Great Tusk brings a lot of role compression as a crucial part of the hazard game and an important check to both Roaring Moon and Gouging Fire. Just tons of utility and incredibly splashable.
:gholdengo: Gholdengo can pick and choose between top threats for it to manhandle while innately having a lot of very desireable attributes as a Dragon- and Psychic-type resist. Very good bulk means it can live a lot of the most powerful hits in the meta, even without a resistance to them.
:skarmory: The premier catch-all physical wall, Skarmory rises above its competitor in Corviknight because Skarmory is the single best user of Spikes in the metagame, and it has access to the very valuable Whirlwind. Skarmory is just a very effective glue mon for many teams.
 
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InkyDarkBird said:
The council should definitely take some action against this. Final Gambit Copycat teams can easily screw over Pokemon not running priority and turns the entire game into a potential 1v1, which is heavily uncompetitive and not fun.
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I think this can be countered somewhat easily with cautious steps, obviously, the first copycat could be unexpected but afterwards you gotta play around it, and use context clues to figure out that something might have Scrappy, which means you should save the ghost type, that being Sinistcha.
 
random meta post

- Toxic Debris+Good as Gold
:great tusk: :zapdos: :gholdengo:
gag / debris arent rly broken imo cuz 1. youre forced to run like 3 mons for it to work effectively 2. these mons would love using some other ability, like regen for tusk 3. all game youre realistically going 4v6. great tusk is imo the best debris mon cuz it can spin and take physical hits well. zapdos is the go-to gag mon cuz of its ability to pressure corviknight. pdef ghold@latios owns tusk / treads and is near mandatory.

debris is a nice way to punish common full-regen cores and even common offense structures reliant on tusk. it kinda struggles vs boots / semi-regen spam tho so there's that. theres also the occasional poison-types clod / pecha / fezan. and vs those, well, good luck. GaGbris offense likes strong knockers like roaring moon / trick mons like azelf.

overall, it's a good playstyle that is good at punishing common structures but at times feels really underwhelming. not really worth taking action rn imo.

- Raging Bolt ETerrain Spam
:raging-bolt:
raging bolt lowkey feels broken. if it didnt have that horrible speed tier it would be on the BL rn probably. eterrain voltage is amazing and its dragon stab is good vs most grounds (except treads). but its not just that, bolt also enables other (otherwise low speed) surge surfer attackers such as ursaluna / iron hands etc. overall a v nice strategy.

- SkarmLu
:skarmory: :ting-lu:
a v nice defensive core, skarm deals w physical mons like ogerpon / rmoon / sneasler etc. tinglu handles special ones, most notably the monster named latios. both are good at stacking up hazards.

- Other terrains
:ogerpon: :azelf:
Ogerpon-W / C@Rillaboom and Azelf@Indeedee are also commonly seen and very good options in the current metagame. Ogerpon especially can just SD and heal itself with Horn Leech like fuck LOL. azelf can eforce past everything and a good trick / gleam into the dark and youre finished.

Ice Spinner stuff like Great Tusk and Treads and maybe Dragonite...? seem like great options in the current metagame.

- Archaludon
:archaludon:
eshot idef bp is a nightmare to deal with at times.
pelipper (Archaludon) @ Leftovers Ability: Drizzle Tera Type: Steel EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD Modest Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Iron Defense - Electro Shot - Body Press - Rest / Substitute
this is a set ive been enjoying a lot. u dont see a lot of bu tusks and idef bp just rolls grounds like treads / tinglu / even pert. rest ensures u stay healthy, but sub can be run for garg salt cure-->6-0 stall. eshot is enough to deal w stuff like ghold. has issues with like latios but what fucking doesnt lol.

- Gouging Fire
:gouging-fire:
mad bulky and can set up to outright crush teams like buzz off lol. run gfire@clef w dd / msun / blitz / filler (usually eq / stedge / dclaw) and ure done. gg. not even alomomola wins. max pdef tusk checks if no balloon at least, i suppose.

On Regenerator / Stall:
:alomomola:
the meta is not friendly to big stall with trick spam / rbolt / gagbris / archaludon / physical setup.... and so on heavily pressuring regen-heavy cores. def viable still but don't expect any action soon.

overall, i think the meta is in a decent spot rn with a LOT of viable playstyles. im interested to know what the community thinks about the current brokens (if you think there are any). personally i think the meta doesnt need any immediate bans but i will decide after playing some more games.
 
TaxFraud said:
I haven't seen anyone else share their personal VRs, so I might as well.
upper ranks are also going to get their fusions listed, with more niche options being unbolded.

S rank (ordered by viability)
:latios: Latios (Porygon-Z / Espeon)
:swampert: Swampert (Hydrapple / Slowking)
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I don't think Swampert or Latios are bad by any means but those are the S tiers??? I personally don't think this meta is mature enough for even an S tier ranking. Neither of those seem particularly strong vs your S- ranks which I do think are comparable. I'd say Swampert is an alright choice for a regenvester, not the top tier one, with bulk worse than A-Muk, Manaphy and other 6 100s, Raging Bolt, better than Treads at least.
 
zezaktest said:
I don't think Swampert or Latios are bad by any means but those are the S tiers??? I personally don't think this meta is mature enough for even an S tier ranking. Neither of those seem particularly strong vs your S- ranks which I do think are comparable. I'd say Swampert is an alright choice for a regenvester, not the top tier one, with bulk worse than A-Muk, Manaphy and other 6 100s, Raging Bolt, better than Treads at least.
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:sv/swampert:
If you're gonna judge a mon off of surface level observations such as having lower stats than pokemon that fill a similar role, then you're bound to miss the full picture. It's the whole package that makes a mon good. Swampert is better than its competition because it has a better movepool and typing than its competition. The most comparable is Manaphy, as they are both bulky water types with access to Knock Off and pivoting. The key difference is in Swampert's secondary typing, Ground.
The Ground-type gives Swampert three key advantages over Manaphy. The first, and most obvious, is that Swampert is immune to Electric rather than weak to it, meaning it can comfortably check Raging Bolt and Archaludon, whereas Manaphy would need to pack a teammate to handle them. The second is that Swampert resists Stealth Rock, which is a small but very major difference between the two. Swampert is able to switch into a lot more attacks with rocks up than Manaphy can. Finally, and maybe the most crucial, is that Swampert has STAB Earthquake. Earthquake is able to put out very respectable damage against a wide range of targets, greatly alleviating passivity issues (130 base attack is nothing to scoff at.)
Swampert simply has an insane amount of role compression for one pokemon. Playing a lot has only reinforced this opinion, cementing Swampert among the very elite in terms of viability.


:sv/latios:
You didn't elaborate whatsoever so I'm not sure what I need to further explain for Latios. In case you just missed it the first time I'll repaste my explanation, which is quite succinct and accurate.
Latios is not only the most threatening wallbreaker in the metagame, but it's the most splashable too. Even with only one Fusion it can easily catch all of its checks off guard with plenty of different options. Choice Specs, Choice Scarf, and Calm Mind are all incredibly effective no matter the team or matchup.
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Latios fits on every team, and it's good in every game. It's as simple as that.
 
Gambit_Gamin said:
I think this can be countered somewhat easily with cautious steps, obviously, the first copycat could be unexpected but afterwards you gotta play around it, and use context clues to figure out that something might have Scrappy, which means you should save the ghost type, that being Sinistcha.
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Why doesn't Raging Bolt have Pincurchin as one of the viable fusions?
 
I might just be going out on a limb here, but I have an idea. Just wanna say, I don't play Frantic Fusions very often, but I've seen a lot of people complaining about this. My idea is that for certain abilities, you could restrict those abilities to once per mon. An example of an ability that could be restricted is Regenerator. I've seen plenty of people complaining about having to deal with two or three Regenerator mons and I think this might be a solution to this problem. This allows for less viable abilities that should be allowed on multiple mons to be able to be used. This also means you don't have to allow all abilities to ability stack and you don't have to add a clause allowing only different abilities.
 
Gambit_Gamin said:
I might just be going out on a limb here, but I have an idea. Just wanna say, I don't play Frantic Fusions very often, but I've seen a lot of people complaining about this. My idea is that for certain abilities, you could restrict those abilities to once per mon. An example of an ability that could be restricted is Regenerator. I've seen plenty of people complaining about having to deal with two or three Regenerator mons and I think this might be a solution to this problem. This allows for less viable abilities that should be allowed on multiple mons to be able to be used. This also means you don't have to allow all abilities to ability stack and you don't have to add a clause allowing only different abilities.
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While I sort of agree with this (mostly that I think Regen needs to be nerfed a bit in this meta), I'd offer an alternative solution.

Restrict certain abilities to their native users

Idea being that while you don't completely eliminate teams comps like Regen cores from existence, you instead make them more predictable, and easier to counter as a result.

Say for instance Regenerator winds up restricted in this manner, and someone wants to fuse Great Tusk with Hydrapple.

greattusk.png


New Stats: HP: 115, Atk: 151, Def: 158, SpA: 83, SpDef: 73, Spe: 98

Abilities: Protosynthesis, Supersweet Syrup, Sticky Hold, Regenerator

Because Regen is now restricted to native mons, Tusk can't click Regenerator anymore.

But Hyrapple can

hydrapple.png


New Stats: HP: 106, Atk: 112, Def: 142, SpA: 133, SpDef: 93, Spe: 65

Abilities: Supersweet Syrup, Sticky Hold, Regenerator, Protosynthesis

While not as physically bulky, it still has much better Special bulk, and can still click Regenerator, making it a solid Regenvest Pivot. But with a glaring weakness to Ice.

So now Regenerator would be limited to the Slow family, Alomomola, Amoonguss, Hydrapple, Torn-Therian, Mienshao, Reuniclus, Klawf, and Cyclizar. And while the donors and the stats gained can vary, it's easier to slot in coverage to deal with the now more predictable Regen cores.
 
we do not plan on restricting abilities in any way, we’ve had this discussion in the past and came to that conclusion; it doesnt help that the discussion was pretty heated as well. no meta changing rule will be added to the ruleset, and especially ones that change the tiers whole identity, so i would prefer we dont go down that rabbit hole. also regenerator is beatable once you truly realize how strong offensive tools are in this meta

on an unrelated note a VR, role compendium, and donor compendium and more are on the way, so stay tuned for that
 
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