Froslass (Analysis) [QC 0/3]

[Spekkio]

Well with disable having 100 accuracy now. I think it should be up for consideration on hail stall, Substitute + Disable Gengar is annoying as hell and I figure Froslass can be as well , especially coupled with the residual damage of hail and her Snow Cloak ability. That and Froslass loves to be revenge killed by pursuit users such as Scizor, Weavile and T-Tar so I figure disabling Pursuit from behind a sub would help her ton loads. Altought then again, you can just switch out while substitute's in play it makes a good way to check some of the opponents attack; that or they usually use their strongest offense to break the sub so disabling that move could be a plus for the whole team. She can outwall an unsuspecting Conkeldurr with Disable (Bulk Up, Mach Punch, Drain Punch, Payback or StoneEdge)

EDIT: Double Stat Booster Terakion is also walled if she can get rid of his Stone Edge. It will also works wonder against choice locked pokemon.

I was thinking of something like this if she is going to carry disable. (spike can't be used in conjunction with Disable. =()

Move 1: Taunt
Move 2: Blizzard / Shadow Ball
Move 3: Disable
Move 4: Substitute
Item: Leftovers / Brightpowder
Nature: Timid
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs: 248 HP / 228 Def / 32 Spe

I personally prefer taunt way over T.Wave or Fake Tears since HailStall Froslass will usually come in play in conjunction with T.Spikes where it renders T.Wave pretty useless.
I noticed the most common switches (back in 4th gen) against her were T.Tar, Scizor, bulky waters, Bulky Spikers (Skarm and Fortress) and pursuit users.
While she will never be able to counter both T.Tar or Scizor no matter what; she can still stall bulky water and Bulky Spikers who just love to use her as set up fodder on her since since she can't do much damage to them. Taunt simply shuts down the opportunity for bulky pokemon to set up, Wish Vaporeon, CMing Suicune and Jelllcient. Coupled with Disable she can get rid of Scald or Surf which means they are left with no form of offense or ether ice beam which she'll scoff at with a defensive spread (Although Jellicent seems to carry Shadow Ball often as well so you'll have to watch out for that). If her cards are played right , she can shut down standard CMing Reuniclus if it carries Focus Blast or Hp Fighting which seems to be the most popular variant: Taunt it, Disable Psychic then all it has left is Focus Blast so ether he will have to switch or you'll have to sacrifice a few Blizzards to kill it off. Shutting down Reuniclus will probably be very important since it will be one of the BIGGEST threat to hail stall team this generation since it just outright resists everything about Hail Stall.

 

[IronGross]

I personally still belive Snow Cloak is useful on the lead set for opposing Abomasnow...

 

[Trucy]

This should be Icy Windnot Ice Beam, right?

Thanks for the catch mate!

Agreeing with Raikoulover, but suggest 156 HP / 100 Def / 252 Spe, as 320 HP is divisible by 4 and thus Froslass will die in 4 switch-ins to rocks.

I also think the bulkier spread should be used, as it isn't Frosslass' main job to attack (especially with only one attacking move) but rather to support. I think Pain Split should get at least a mention in AC, if not slashed with Destiny Bond. With the defensive investment, this allows Froslass to switch into walls such as Gliscor and the aforementioned Vaporeon to spike, and Pain Split off any damage it might have taken.

Tyranitar should be stressed as a basically perfect counter as it can come in on any move, barring Destiny Bond, set up the sand, and trap Froslass with pursuit. Whereas with Hippowdon and Excadrill, you could at least hit them with Ice Beam and switch out without fear of pursuit if need be.

Will do, thanks guys!

Move 1: Taunt
Move 2: Blizzard / Shadow Ball
Move 3: Disable
Move 4: Substitute
Item: Leftovers / Brightpowder
Nature: Timid
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs: 248 HP / 228 Def / 32 Spe

That does sound promising, although can other people vouch for this set? I can give it a mention in additional comments under the hail stall set or other options, as I personally haven't seen many people use this effectively... if people do come forward I will definitely add this as a set though :p. Thanks!

I personally still belive Snow Cloak is useful on the lead set for opposing Abomasnow...

Actually, this is a good lead in to my question - I need confirmation, has Snow Cloak been released on Froslass or not? I've searched but can't find the answer.

Help is appreciated, and once again thanks for the help guys!

 

[Rakan]

On the lead set I would personally put Icy Wind as the first slash over Ice Beam and Shadow Ball as it allows you to defeat faster leads with a combo of that and Destiny Bond. In addition, I don't think Cursed Body Froslass has been released yet so don't put that as the ability for any of the sets yet.

 

[Trucy]

On the lead set I would personally put Icy Wind as the first slash over Ice Beam and Shadow Ball as it allows you to defeat faster leads with a combo of that and Destiny Bond. In addition, I don't think Cursed Body Froslass has been released yet so don't put that as the ability for any of the sets yet.

Finally got around to addressing all the changes in my other post. Icy Wind is now the first offensive option for the Leadlass set, and all mentions of Cursed Body in the sets have been removed. Thanks!

 

[IronGross]

It's pointless to invest in HP and defenses with a Sash, just run 4HP/252SpA/252Spe.

 

[RazeHell]

Bump.
What I think everybody is missing is Froslass's potential as a scarfer.

<ScarfLass>
Froslass @ Choice Scarf
Modest nature
EVs: 252 Sp.At / 252 Speed / 4 HP
Ability: Cursed Body

Moves:
Ice Beam
Shadow Ball
Thunderbolt
HP Fight / Destiny Bond
Basically, I like to call this set an anti-sweep set, though she's still a magnificent revenge killer.


<Comments>
Her nature is Modest, this takes attacks that normally wouldn't be a OHKO and makes them so (such as T-bolt > Gyarados)
I really like Froslass's DW ability, so I'm sticking with that. At any rate, it's normally than her other ability, which only works in hail. (Snow Cloak would be better if you're running hail, though)

Ice Beam
Requisite STAB move. If you're felling a little crazy, you can replace with Blizzard, but I highly recommend against it, unless you're running a hail team. Dragonites be weary.

Shadow Ball
Another STAB move. Works wonders against other ghosts, as she outspeeds most of them.

Thunderbolt
For coverage. Gyarados fears this like it fears God.*

Hidden Power Fight / Destiny Bond
Here's the meat of the dilemma when with this moveset.
You could go with HPF for excellent coverage, but admittedly, it's a pretty bad move on Froslass
Destiny Bond is another option, and a very viable one at that. Basically, if you decide a to use this, a pokemon on your opponent's side is going down. Being scarfed allows Froslass to almost always move first, so she can almost always get in a Destiny Bond right before an attack that would kill her. This is best against foes that she has no chance if OHKOing.

<Team support>
Froslass can deal major damage to several main threats. However, due to her relatively small Special Attack, these hits won't always OHKO. It is suggested that Froslass has a teammate that can set up entry hazards, which will turn several hard hits into KOs.

<additional comments>
At first glance, one would assume that Gengar would be better with this set, with his equal speed and superior Sp. attack. However, this isn't the case. First of all, Gengar can't learn Ice beam, preventing him from applying the classic BoltBeam combination. Second, he has slightly better defenses, preventing him from using Destiny Bond as effectively.

<counters>
Unfortunately, Froslass is stopped cold if paralyzed and she can't even touch Blissey.
Also, Shadow Sneak (thankfully pretty rare) and Bullet Punch are brutal to Froslass.
Scizor is Froslass's worst nightmare, as it is impossible to predict whether he will Pursuit or Bullet Punch, and either of these will be an OHKO.

Sorry if this isn't the correct format; this is my first post on Smogon, and I'm trying to get used to everything.

 

[Bugbot]

Bump.
What I think everybody is missing is Froslass's potential as a scarfer.

This Froslass is pretty much outclassed by Gengar. Besides, Ghost-types are bad Choice-locked Pokemon: they beg for Pursuit to OHKO them. STAB Ice Beam doesn't make up for the lower SpA and the "bad" typing. Maybe it could get an Other Options mention, but that's the best it can get.

 

[GtM]

This Froslass is pretty much outclassed by Gengar. Besides, Ghost-types are bad Choice-locked Pokemon: they beg for Pursuit to OHKO them. STAB Ice Beam doesn't make up for the lower SpA and the "bad" typing. Maybe it could get an Other Options mention, but that's the best it can get.

What he said. Here's the relative damage ratings of each of Gengar's attacks vs those of Froslass.

Shadow Ball from Gengar: 43080
Shadow Ball from Froslass: 31080

Ice Beam from Froslass: 34965
HP Ice from Gengar: 25130

Thunderbolt from Gengar: 34105
Thunderbolt from Froslass: 24605

Focus Blast from Gengar: 43080
HP Fighting from Froslass: 18130

As you can see, Gengar can BoltBeam just as effectively as Froslass, with his Thunderbolt being as powerful as Froslass' Ice Beam and with Gengar's HP Ice being as powerful as Froslass' Thunderbolt. Not that Gengar needs to run BoltBeam with Shadow Ball and Focus Blast being much more powerful... HP Fighting isn't really a sensible option for Froslass when it fails to 2HKO offensive Tyranitar. Plus Gengar isn't as weak to Pursuit since he can significantly damage common Pursuit users with Focus Blast, unlike Froslass.

If you're running Modest then I assume you'd do the same with Gengar, so there was no need to include natures in my calculations. Both Froslass and Gengar also get Destiny Bond, so that's not a selling point.

 

[RazeHell]

This Froslass is intended to be anti-set up.
It's potency is in it's surprise.

The thing is, Gengar can't OHKO Garchomp, Salamence, or Dragonite with HP Ice.
Also, opponents will be expecting an offensive Gengar and will act accordingly.

 

[Bugbot]

This Froslass is intended to be anti-set up.
It's potency is in it's surprise.

The thing is, Gengar can't OHKO Garchomp, Salamence, or Dragonite with HP Ice.
Also, opponents will be expecting an offensive Gengar and will act accordingly.

Surprise isn't important when the set is not effective at all. Also, Gengar can OHKO Garchomp & Salamence with Hidden Power Ice. Dragonite is another story. I'm not even sure Froslass can OHKO the Parashuffler set.

tl;dr: Gengar > Froslass. Froslass does not deserve a Scarf set.

 

[GtM]

This Froslass is intended to be anti-set up.
It's potency is in it's surprise.

If its potency is in its surprise, then why do you want the set to be on the analysis? If it is, people will expect it, and hence it won't be a surprise.

The thing is, Gengar can't OHKO Garchomp, Salamence, or Dragonite with HP Ice.

List of pokémon that Scarf Gengar can OHKO whilst Froslass cannot.

• Tyranitar, both offensive and defensive sets.
• Excadrill.
• Latios.
• Reuniclus.
• Starmie.
• Bulky Gyarados.

List of pokémon that Scarf Gengar can 2HKO whilst Froslass cannot.

• Ferrothorn
• Defensive Jellicent.
• Specially Defensive Skarmory.

Notice that all of these relevent targets don't require a Scarf to be outsped, making me think a Life Orb set would be much more viable.

 

[Bloo]

The only reason Froslass has an OU analysis is this: the ability to use Spikes while spinblocking at the same time thanks to its Ghost-typing. As such, I am of the opinion that Froslass' only set should be the Spiker, meaning that I would like to see the Hail Stall set removed. Setsuna and I talked about it and we both agreed that it's ineffective in today's metagame with Tyranitar and Steel-types roaming free. BrightPowder is also banned, lessening the effectiveness of that set.

Here's how I think the Spikes set should look:

[SET]
name: Spikes
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Taunt
move 3: Ice Beam / Shadow Ball
move 4: Destiny Bond
item: Leftovers
nature: Timid
ability: Snow Cloak
evs: 160 HP / 96 Def / 252 Spe

• The set name has been changed to "Spikes," as that accurately portrays what Froslass does. LeadLass isn't a fitting name because 1) Froslass is perfectly usable outside of the lead position and 2) Team Previews means your opponent can lead with their best defense versus Lass in the lead spot to stop any plans you may have (Taunt users).
• I removed Icy Wind as an option. Sure, it slows stuff down, but it won't be doing much damage to anything, and seems Ac material at best if you ask me. Ice Beam should definitely be the main STAB option, with Shadow Ball as the second.
• Leftovers is now item of choice here, since it gives Froslass a bit more survivability. Focus Sash is also only applicable in the lead position (which, again, Froslass can be used outside of), since Stealth Rock will negate Froslass' Sash if it isn't used as a lead (assuming your opponent uses / sets up SR, of course).

That's all I have for you. I'll approve this once the changes are made.

 

[Setsuna]

Posting to confirm that these were the changes that Bloo and I drew.

 

[Meru]

I think you should change it from a lead set to a spiker set. Bulky Froslass is good outside of the lead position.