Garchomp [QC: 0/3]

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Overview
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  • Excellent STAB typing and high attack allow it to hit hard
  • Good user of Stealth Rock, it is rather fast and has respectable bulk
  • Good set up sweeper as it can utilize different items efficiently to set up and sweep
  • Unique 102 base Speed allows it to outpace certain important threats though still being outsped by Pokeon such as Keldeo, Gengar, and Thundurus-I
  • Mega Evolution can run a mixed set to more success than Chainchomp in previous gens

SET NAME
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name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Outrage / Dragon Claw
move 4: Fire Fang / Stone Edge
ability: Rough Skin
item: Yache Berry / Garchompite
nature: Jolly
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

Moves
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  • Swords Dance helps Garchomp sweep defensive teams when given the opportunity to set up
  • Earthquake is the primary attack and STAB move, allows it to hit Pokemon such as Aegislash and Heatran hard
  • Outrage is the secondary STAB attack, allows it to hit many Pokemon that are immune to Earthquake such as Rotom-W, Aegislash, Landorus, Thundurus, and Gyarados.
  • Dragon Claw can be considered over Outrage if being locked into Outrage is concerning -- such as in the case of Fairy-type Pokemon on the opponent's team
  • Fire Fang helps Garchomp take down Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Skarmory easier
  • Stone Edge can be used over Fire Fang if one wishes to hit Togekiss, as it would otherwise be immune to both of Garchomp's STAB moves.
  • You can also consider running Substitute in the last slot. You lose the ability to beat things like Skarmory but Dragon- and Ground-type coverage is still decent, and you have more safety against faster threats

Set Details
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  • EVs maximize Speed and Attack, max speed allows it to beat Pokemon such as Landorus-I and Thundurus-T with a Jolly nature, as well as others below 101 base Speed such as Jirachi, Volcarona, Celebi, and Kyurem-B
  • Yache Berry helps it survive Ice-type attacks from faster Pokemon such as Starmie, Greninja, and Keldeo, giving Garchomp the opportunity to survive a hit and attack back.
  • Garchompite can be used on teams with Sandstorm support, and hits noticeably harder than the standard Yache set due to Sand Force and the base Attack boost.
  • The additional bulk gives it the ability to survive priority attacks from Scizor or Breloom better, but the drop in Speed makes it lose to anything base 92 Speed and above
  • Other berries can be used in place of Yache Berry: Lum helps it against random Scald burns, Will-o-Wisp users, and Toxic users, Haban berry helps it survive against certain variants of Latias and Latios
  • Life Orb can be used to secure the kill on Pokemon like Gliscor and Landorus-T with Outrage. It hates the recoil but makes it even more threatening

Usage Tips
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  • Like most set up sweepers, it is best to save this type of Garchomp mid-late game so its checks and counters are weakened for the most part
  • Switch it in safely on defensive teams, and Swords Dance on a predicted switch. This strategy can be used for Pokemon such as defensive Excadrill, Heatran, and even Pokemon like Ferrothorn to an extent.
  • If running Lum Berry, you also have opportunities to set up Swords Dance on a status move such as Will-o-Wisp and Toxic. This is also helpful against Scald users like Jellicent
  • Be wary of using Outrage if there is still a Fairy-type on the opponent's team, as you could potentially be giving them a free turn if you use Outrage too early

Team Options
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  • Best used on offensive teams, as Swords Dance has great wall-breaking potential and can apply offensive pressure in a pinch
  • Thundurus-I makes a good partner because it can deal with Skarmory very easily, and also can utilize Prankster Thunder Wave to slow down faster threats for Garchomp to sweep through such as Latios, Keldeo, and Infernape
  • Rotom-W can also threaten Skarmory, and can switch into Ice-type attacks from Pokemon like Starmie or Mamoswine
  • Offensive Heatran can deal with Swords Dance Mega Mawile with Will-o-Wisp, can lay down Stealth Rock, and can threaten Ferrothorn and opposing switch-ins with Fire Blast
  • If using Mega Garchomp, Smooth Rock Tyranitar and Hippowdon are important for keeping the Sand Force boost for Garchomp
SET NAME
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name: Stealth Rock
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Outrage / Dragon Claw
move 4: Swords Dance / Fire Blast
ability: Rough Skin
item: Lum Berry / Focus Sash
nature: Jolly / Naive
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

Moves
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  • Garchomp is a good user of Stealth Rock because it can force switches from Pokemon like Heatran and Aegislash, then set up Stealth Rock
  • Earthquake is primary STAB and gives Garchomp some offensive presence
  • Outrage is used to round out Garchomp's coverage by hitting the Levitate users, Flying-types, and Ground-type resistant Pokemon
  • Dragon Claw can be used if one does not wish to be locked into Outrage, though the damage output is noticeably weaker
  • Swords Dance gives Garchomp extra sweeping capabilities if it is still around late game, and makes Garchomp an additional threat to the opponent's team
  • Fire Blast can be used to hit Ferrothorn, Skarmory and Forretress harder, though Garchomp trades coverage for sweeping capabilities

Set Details
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  • Jolly nature with max Attack and Speed allow it to outspeed anything base 101 and below, Garchomp wants to hit as fast as hard as possible
  • In the case of Fire Blast, Naive is used so there is no drop in damage
  • Lum Berry is useful for both setting up Stealth Rock and sweeping, as Garchomp can set up Stealth Rock during a Toxic or Will-o-Wisp, or it can utilize Lum Berry to set up Swords Dance
  • Focus Sash can be used so Garchomp functions more like a suicide lead. It can set up Stealth Rock against Pokemon like Starmie, Latias, and Latios. Or, it can simply choose to kill those threats instead
  • Rocky Helmet is also an item to consider which is pretty useful against weaker U-turns, Aegislash Shadow Sneaks, or Talonflame Flare Blitzes in order to rack up more residual damage in tandem with Rough Skin
Usage Tips
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  • Unlike the Swords Dance set, this Garchomp is best used early game to get Stealth Rock up early
  • As such, it is very common for this Garchomp to be used as a lead
  • This Garchomp is more efficient at weakening things early game as opposed to flat-out sweeping with Swords Dance
  • By weakening the opponent's team, cleanup sweepers can come in late game and finish up

Team Options
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  • Gengar, Talonflame, Starmie are all decent options to consider to aid in a late-game cleanup in combination with Garchomp, as they are all able to take down physically bulky threats with ease
  • Ferrothorn and Forretress can make good entry hazard combinations with Garchomp because they can set up Spikes while luring in things like Heatran, which Garchomp can switch into
  • Similarly, Garchomp can bring in Pokemon like Gliscor, Skarmory, and Hippowdon, which both Ferrothorn and Forretress can spikestack on
SET NAME
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name: Mixed
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Draco Meteor
move 3: Fire Blast
move 4: Stone Edge
ability: Rough Skin
item: Garchompite
nature: Naughty
evs: 224 Atk / 32 SpA / 252 Spe

Moves
========
  • Earthquake gets a nice attack boost with Sand Force, and hits extremely hard with Mega Garchomp's boosted offenses
  • Draco Meteor is used to hit common switch-ins such as Landorus-T, Gliscor, and Hippowdon, putting them in a 2HKO range with Stealth Rock up.
  • Fire Blast takes advantage of Mega Garchomp's mixed capabilities, being able to hit Skarmory and Ferrothorn much harder than usual because it is a specially based attack
  • Stone Edge completes Mega Garchomp's coverage, allowing it to hit Togekiss. Furthermore, Stone Edge gets a nice boost from Sand Force

Set Details
========
  • Naughty nature is used for maximum mixed damage output, as it can dent many bulky teams easily with Earthquake and Draco Meteor
  • 32 Special Attack EVs allow for Garchomp to 2HKO the standard Hippowdon with Draco Meteor and Earthquake under Sand
  • Max Speed EVs let Garchomp hit 283, capable of outspeeding all Heatran and Adamant Lucario, as well as most bulky Rotom-W sets.
  • However, it is outsped by max Speed Gyarados, max Speed Rotom-W, and Kyurem-B

Usage Tips
========
  • This set is best used to take down slower, defensive teams
  • Best used early-mid game to take down walls
  • Should be brought in safely with a U-turn or a double switch
  • Hit and run with this set. Stay in and fire off attacks accordingly, then switch out
Team Options
========
  • Sandstorm support is highly recommended, so Smooth Rock Tyranitar or Hippowdon are common teammates to use. They can also set up Stealth Rock to help Mega Garchomp break down defenses
  • Sand Rush Excadrill helps clean up in Sandstorm and can use Rapid Spin if need be to keep Garchomp healthy
  • Swords Dance Aegislash can take advantage of weakened physical walls and can clean up lategame with Shadow Sneak as well
  • Choice Band Azumarill is also a good teammate as it benefits off of Garchomp's wall-breaking abilities and has Aqua Jet to finish up late game

Other Options
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  • A Band set can be used for some instant offense and pure physical power
  • Toxic could be used to cripple incoming Hippowdon or Landorus switches
  • If used on rain, Aqua Tail can be considered on the Swords Dance set to hit Landorus, Gliscor, and Hippowdon harder
  • A Scarf set can be used to revenge kill certain threats -- this would be used more as a clean up sweeper as opposed to a wall-breaking type of sweeper
  • Substitute in tandem with Swords Dance can be considered as well, but the lack of coverage hurts its ability to sweep. It can be utilized with Salac Berry to outspeed the majority of the metagame

Checks & Counters
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  • Skarmory
  • Ferrothorn
  • Bronzong
  • Gliscor
  • Landorus-T
  • Hippowdon
  • Starmie
  • Latias
  • Latios
  • Thundurus-I
  • Keldeo
  • Greninja
  • Talonflame
  • Scizor
  • Mamoswine
  • Weavile
  • Cloyster
  • Donphan
  • Mega Mawile
 
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I would move LO and Substitute from OO to AC on the SD set, Life Orb makes it much harder to wall and secures the OHKO on Gliscor/Lando-T with +2/1 Outrage, a 93,8% chance to OHKO Lando-I with +0 Outrage after SR, allows you to OHKO on 252/0 Togekiss with +0 Stone Edge with SR, will OHKO 252/0 Aegislash with EQ 93% of the time, you get a 80% chance to OHKO 252/252+ Rotom-W with +2 Dragon Claw and SR and can OHKO Dragonite with +2 Dragon Claw even with Multiscale. Just mention that Garchomp hates the recoil as it can't capitalize on its otherwise great bulk as much, but in return can break through almost every wall in the game.
Also mention the possibilty to lower your Def IVs when using Yache berry so Scarf Genesect won't get the Download boost and can't KO you anymore. You say that Substitute cuts down garchomps coverage, but even with fairies running around Dragon/Ground is still one of the best stab combinations in the game and Substitute can really help against offensive teams especially with all the Priority moves in the current meta game, i would leave Salac berry in OO though.

I would take out Fire Fang from the SR set as its damage is really disappointing without a boost and replace it with an AC mention of LO+Fire Blast as this also turns it into a decent early game walll breaker to punch holes for other sweepers like Excadrill and Talonflame.
 
I would place Mixed over Stealth Rock because Mixed Mega Garchomp is probably one of stall's and balanced team's number one threat.

Scarf and Band sets are fine to add but I would definitely put these sets last. I'll let QC weigh on that one though.
 
I think the Stealth Rock set should go back to using Fire Blast. The ability to 2HKO virtually every Steel-type with Fire Blast is still great, and I don't think the metagame has significantly changed in a way to lessen that sets original effectiveness.

BTW, Garchomp needs to have its Defense IVs lowered to 10 if it wants to prevent Genesect from gaining the Special Attack boost. I guess this goes without saying, but this is strictly a set details thing. (You're lowering your Defense for the sole purpose of fucking over Genesect)

Everything else is solid.
 
PK Gaming said:
I think the Stealth Rock set should go back to using Fire Blast. The ability to 2HKO virtually every Steel-type with Fire Blast is still great, and I don't think the metagame has significantly changed in a way to lessen that sets original effectiveness.

BTW, Garchomp needs to have its Defense IVs lowered to 10 if it wants to prevent Genesect from gaining the Special Attack boost. I guess this goes without saying, but this is strictly a set details thing. (You're lowering your Defense for the sole purpose of fucking over Genesect)

Everything else is solid.
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Agreeing with Fire Blast.

Somewhat disagreeing with your suggestion of Defense IV lowering. You're making yourself softer to force Genesect to an Attack boost. And with it Scarf Genesect can simply U-turn for days on Garchomp to another Pokemon anyway (+1 4 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 153-181 (42.7 - 50.5%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO).
 
I'll make the changes for LO and Fire Blast mentions on the sets, but Colonel M raises a pretty good point about Genesect. I'm not sure if it's really beneficial for the IV drop because it a) lowers Garchomp's defenses a little bit for one set on one Pokemon and b) powers up a Genesect U-turn, which is still pretty bad.

I chose not to include the Scarf and Band sets because there are a lot of more threats that can set up offensively, and there are usually better ways to deal with faster threats than using Scarfchomp nowadays. For example, Scarf Chomp was able to easily handle +1 Volcarona and Dragon Dancers last generation, but things like Talonflame are usually better to deal with those things because it's not as prone to giving your opponent free turns afterwards compared to Chomp. SD Aegislash and Belly Drum Azumarill for example can easily set up on Outrage, and from there it's usually game. It had this problem last generation too but it's gotten a bit worse this gen. I put them in OO, but I suppose if people want it that much I'll include them last.
 
This may pend on your teams and such but, from a personal standpoint, I would rather Genesect get a +1 SpA boost. This can force it to get greedy with Ice Beam or Bug Buzz. If Garchomp packs Magnezone on the team, consider Genesect as good as dead.
 
Well given how prominent Genesect is in standard OU, the ability to stop it from revenge killing SD Garchomp is actually very significant. If Genesect's your only revenge killer, and you're matched up against Garchomp that just set up Swords Dance, then you're going to lose 1-2 Pokemon to that particular variant of Garchomp.
This may pend on your teams and such but, from a personal standpoint, I would rather Genesect get a +1 SpA boost. This can force it to get greedy with Ice Beam or Bug Buzz. If Garchomp packs Magnezone on the team, consider Genesect as good as dead.
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The offensive momentum you concede by switching out is pretty damn significant, especially if you set up a Swords Dance. Like you say, it completely depends on the circumstance. Having a guaranteed ace against non-Specs Genesect is pretty cool.

And to reiterate, this isn't a primary option; it's an alternative IV spread that lets you deal with (arguably) the single best Pokemon in the game. And in all honesty, we've suggested worse.
 
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In the SR set, Fire Blast > SD. Also, get rid of Focus Sash from the main set, i would never sac Chomp in the first turns against teams with Defog users, which are a lot. And wtf is Lum Berry a main item? SR Chomp is an SR setter first and foremost and sweeping / wallbreaking is just an afterthought. Leftovers / Rocky Helmet should be the two main items, longevity vs harassing U-turn users and other annoying physical attackers such as Talonflame. Finally, a bulky EV spread should be mentioned in the set comments. Don't know which exactly though.

Also, agreeing with PK that in the SD set, 10 Def IVs should be given a heavy mention when using Yache Berry, otherwise what's the point of using the berry if you end up losing against one of the most common users of Ice moves?

Finally, i have faced both CB and Scarf Chomp and they were decent, so i think that both deserve main sets.
 
I'm getting a bunch of mixed reviews regarding what to do with a couple things. I'll take off Focus Sash and mention it elsewhere in AC, but I am keeping Lum on that main set after talking to a couple of people for now. It definitely has its uses, because Lum helps set up Stealth Rock against things like Rotom without having to fear Will-o-Wisp, which is really nice to have. No, it is not just used for sweeping purposes, although it definitely helps if you still have it intact. It's not just for Rotom-W either, it's also for things like Trevenant and Gourgeist who might try to burn you, and it's also so you get to land a hit on a Sash Breloom to break sash while it tries to Sleep you, then you Stealth Rock on the predicted switch.

I'll put Rocky Helmet slashed alongside Lum, but I am putting Leftovers in AC alongside a bulky set. Unless you can convince me why I'd use it over the bulky pivot Landorus-T, it's going to stay that way. If you really wanted longevity, you'd be using Landorus-T because Leftovers is much more fitting alongside Intimidate, and has excellent defenses to make us of. I can't think of many instances where I'd use that over pivot Lando, but if you want to give me a set and spread and a reason as to why it's better, then I'll listen and include it after talking to some more QC members.

So currently I have BurningMan, PK, and alexwolf on pro IV drop and I have CM and Fuzznip on the against IV drop side for Genesect. I'm torn on what to do, It sure would be great if we could come to a consensus on this.

And yeah I'll add Scarf and Band, there seems to be enough support. But for the other things I'd really like for QC to reach an agreement on some of these things lol
 
This may or may not be useful, but would Dual Chop be a viable alternative to Dragon Claw? It is only 90% accurate, and it does activate Iron Barbs, Rough Skin, and Rocky Helmet twice, but it has the neat ability to break through Focus Sash, Sturdy, and Substitute.
 
RE: Dual Chop - it's okay maybe in the OO or within the Moves column, but to justify it as a main move is hard because it is prone to missing and, as noted by yourself, activates Iron Barbs / Rocky Helmet.
 
Lefties is good on the SR set for a lot of reasons: Chomp has great bulk and resistances even without HP investment, meaning it can switch in quite a lot. Also, it is quite resilient to residual damage, being immune to sand and resistant to SR, so with Lefties it can last a lot against team that lack strong attacks. Finally, Defog is everywhere, and having better longevity means more chances to set up SR again.

As for Lum, i don't buy it. Sacing one item just to set up SR once against Rotom-W or Gourgeist is not worth it, especially when it's so easy to remove SR from the field. Lum is good on SD sets where setting up SD can win you a game, but not on a SR set. Doesn't even deserve AC.
 
Lum Berry works fine on the Stealth Rock set if you're using Swords Dance / Outrage (Dragon Claw) / Earthquake for your filler moves.
 
Oh lol, forgot about SD. But i don't like SD as a primary slash anyway, though with SD on the set it's true that Lum is good, but imo Lefties is equally good.
 
32 Special Attack EVs allow for Garchomp to 2HKO the standard Hippowdon with Draco Meteor and Earthquake under Sand
Click to expand...

32 SpA Mega Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 220-261 (52.5 - 62.2%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(220, 223, 226, 229, 231, 234, 237, 240, 241, 244, 247, 250, 252, 255, 258, 261)

224+ Atk Sand Force Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon in Sand: 180-213 (42.9 - 50.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
(180, 183, 184, 186, 189, 190, 193, 195, 198, 199, 201, 204, 205, 208, 210, 213)

I'm not quite sure that statement is correct. I'm pretty sure SR guarantees the OHKO though.
 
One suggestion that I have for the SR set is slashing Dragon Tail with the other dragon moves. This not only allows him to prevent set-up on most stuff bar fairies(to most of whom he does a sizable amount w/ eq), but allows him to rack up a lot of damage on stuff like Landorus-Therian and Mandibuzz. Speaking of Mandibuzz, you deal with Mandibuzz a whole lot better with Dragon Tail, since you can just set-up SR again after it switches out and it has to take that SR damage once it comes back. SR damage + Dragon Tail damage really lets the rest of your team deal with these walls a bit easier. Dragon Claw and Outrage may offer more immediate damage, but Dragon Tail offers a whole lot more momentum by shuffling things around. I'd say if you're going with Outrage/dragon Claw go Swords Dance and go Fire Blast if you're going with Dragon Tail.
 
Bulky SR with Rocky Helmet should get its own set. This is the set:

Bulky Stealth Rock
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name: Bulky Stealth Rock
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Dragon Tail / Dragon Claw
move 4: Toxic / Fire Blast
ability: Rough Skin
item: Rocky Helmet
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 Spe

Great to wear down U-turn users (which are everywhere), good SR setter that can do something against most spinners / Defog users, and nice bulky pivot in general. Spe EVs outrun Timid Heatran (offensive sets) and Adamant regular Lucario, which may be non-existent, but you need only 4 or 8 EVs to outspeed it so it doesn't really matter.
 
Just a question, how is Mega Mawile a check at all to the Swords Dance set?
+1 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 408-480 (134.2 - 157.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 172-203 (48 - 56.7%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO
This is assuming that it hasn't Mega Evolved yet. But then even with Garchompite:
+1 252 Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 494-584 (162.5 - 192.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 147-173 (41 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
It isn't a counter, nor a check, Garchomp cannot switch into it, but Mega Mawile is outsped, even with Sticky Web and 252+ (M-Mawile gets to 218, but Garchomp with 252+ at -1 will reach 222, unless it is Mega Garchomp, it isn't gonna be outspeed and hit by Play Rough). Am I missing something?
 
Mawile can come in on a dragon attack, stone edge, or fire fang and survive a -1 earthquake and OHKO with play rough. It's a shaky check at best. Nonetheless a check.

-1 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 182-216 (59.8 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-1 252 Atk Garchomp Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 78-94 (25.6 - 30.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 578-684 (161.4 - 191%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
add the bulky chomp alexwolf posted

remove garchompite on sd it's kinda shitty except on mixed

add lum to sd

i think fire blast is better than fire fang except when you have a sun partner
 
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