• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

Garchomp, the most broken pokemon in OU.

Status
Not open for further replies.
I agree that Garchomp should be banned from the OU metagame.
ShoddyBattle January Ladder Stats said:
1. Blissey (44472 usages)
2. Garchomp (43334 usages)
3. Gengar (42642 usages)
4. Gyarados (33503 usages)
5. Tyranitar (31865 usages)
As we can see here, Garchomp is one of the most overused pokes in the game, second only to Blissey, somewhat proving that Garchomp is overcentralizing the metagame.

Garchomp is an extremely threatening Pokemon and nearly impossible to counter. Unlike Deoxy-E, whose main counter is prediction, Garchomp is so powerful as a Swords Dance Sweeper that prediction is almost meaningless. If you want to try to outpredict a Garchomp, espically the Swords Dance variety, be my guest.

Dragon/ Fire/ Ground hits all Pokemon for at least netural damage. Garchomp seprates itself from the other Dragons that can also sport this combo in many ways. STAB on two of these moves make for an extremely dangerous threat, and with combined with its bulky stats, few weaknesses, and Speed: you have an extremely threatening Poke.

For those people that say "Garchomp is so predictable! It only runs the same few moves! We can counter it!" consider this. Pokes that people run to deal with Garchomp include the following: Vaporeon, Gliscor, Milotic, Starmie, Skarmory, Bronzong, Cresselia, Hippowdon, Starmie, Bulky Gyarados; the list goes on. Through experience with Garchomp and the current metagame in general, I would like to claim that Garchomp can commonly beat these pokes, and therefore is uncounterable. Slow bulky pokes with Ice Beam can in theory beat Garchomp, but in practice they all come short. The Sub/ Brightpower set can beat all of these bulky counters save Skarmory and Bronzong, given that Sandstream is present (which it often is). A standard Swords Dance Garchomp beats Bronzong no problem, and often has enough power to easily sweep teams once early game sweepers such as Gengar and Weavile are killed. Most physical walls will hate to come face to face with a Chainchomp. So even though Garchomp seemingly lacks diversity, its few moves can deal with all its counters, and often the rest of an opponents team. In this way, Garchomp is silimar to Manaphy, who was banned from standard play, even though it only uses few moves to do its job. I would argue that Garchomp is even more deadly than Manaphy was in the early D/P enviroment. Manaphy had two or three reliable counters, while Garchomp has none.

Some may claim that many other Pokes that exist in OU (Gengar, Lucario, Tyranitar and Metagross to an extent) lack specific counters, and since Garchomp seems to fall under this cateorgy, it is acceptable to keep him in OU. Garchomp is a greater threat than all of these Pokes. Gengar has Speed and unpredictably, but is too fragile to be as dealy as Garchomp. Lucario can hit from both sides of the spectrum very hard, and has decent speed, does that mean he is uber? Once the Lucario set is revealed, it can be countered to an extent. Even after Garchomp's set is revealed, it still is extremely hard to find a sure fire counter. Those few moves that Garchomp uses kills all of its "counters". Tyranitar and Metagross are incredibly strong, but have to give up a huge amount of power to be fast enough to sweep an entire team, which often does not happen. Garchomp has all the speed and power it can get.

In conclusion, I believe that Garchomp should be moved to the Uber tier. It is the biggeset threat in today's metagame (and the most used one) and has all the same syndromes that Manaphy had when he was it standard. Banning it would allow people to bring more creativity into the standard enviroment, instead of having to worry about Garchomp all the time.
 
I was fairly certain that CB Tar 2HKO Hariyama with Earthquake, but regardless, it's a definite 2HKO with CB Aerial Ace, so take that off the list.

There's about a 50% chance of a 2HKO, so just try to predict stone edge or crunch. I've never seen tyranitar use aerial ace either.
 
You're all trying to counter Garchomp and that's why you all FAIL and get owned by it, GARCHOMP GOT NO COUNTERS.

But it can be stopped anytime if you just put your shameless brain to work and act like a true player.

Just read my last post.

WindScar said:
Hello. I'm WindScar and I'm an extreme Garchomp user. I use only 1 team, never change it, and Garchamp is one of the six. I just saw this thread and had to reply. Garchomp is NOT uber. People just don't know how to deal with him properly.

He's an awesome pokémon, but there's one thing that'll stop it, ever. Skill. The reason it's so threatening to you is because you don't know how to deal with him. People keep trying to send their "Garchomp Counters". Failure! It's just what I need to build my way to victory, because Garchomp got NO counters. But it IS stoppable, just in different ways. Just think differently, evaluate the situation and do the right moves to stop him. I could write down a guide of how stop almost every Garchomp with almost every OU team in almost every sittuation. But I'm not stupid.

I guarantee you that almost 90% of the people I win with Garchomp HAD something that they could do to stop me. I say that because I know what it is. But They don't realize it, and so I proceed to victory.

Edit: And if you don't trust me, I challange you. Make a team with Garchomp. You can even use more than one if you want. I'll not just stop it but use it to build my way to victory. Using my main team; that one I never changed.
And then just stop with that shameless uber bullshit and find yourself the right way to deal with Garchomp.
 
You're all trying to counter Garchomp and that's why you all FAIL and get owned by it, GARCHOMP GOT NO COUNTERS.

But it can be stopped anytime if you just put your shameless brain to work and act like a true player.

Just read my last post.

So how do you suggest it be killed?

Don't say Ice attacks. List off actual pokemon that can switch in, and survive long enough to fire off a round that can KO Garchomp before Chomp begins to slaughter your team.
 
I disagree. Why?

Because I can (and have) used your counters arguments that you have for Garchomp for Tyranitar, Garchomp, Salamence and Lucario. The counters argument is inherently flawed because it makes too many assumptions regarding the specific scenario in battle.

Your second argument is irrelevant. It assumes OHKO'ing Garchomp is a necessity, which is not true at all. Sure, Weavile has to OHKO it...which it does with Life Orb and Max Attack (which is the most common) everytime with Life Orb.

Your third argument might be the most relevant. Because I can build any team that can fall due to sand veil hax, I might support removing Sand Veil as Garchomp's ability. People might complain that we are removing Gamefreak's intentions by doing this...but who gives a crap? Instead of banning a Pokemon, why not just the ability? We already ban evasion moves, people have been clamoring for evasion items to be banned for a while now, so evasion abilities are only around the corner.

My point is your first 2 arguments really should hold no bearing whatsoever. The counters argument has always been and will always be flawed, and the your second argument is largely irrelevant.

The only big problem Garchomp has is with Sand Veil hax. Remove that, remove the problems.

You can't just change a pokemon's abilities etc to ways you see fit. If gamefreak gave garchomp sand veil, it will always have sand veil weather you fucking like it or not. It's not right to modify pokemon just so they can stay in standard.
 
Please, explain this foolproof strategy for winning against Garchomp that doesn't include countering it.
 
So how do you suggest it be killed?

Don't say Ice attacks. List off actual pokemon that can switch in, and survive long enough to fire off a round that can KO Garchomp before Chomp begins to slaughter your team.

Uh, if he was planning on doing that, why would he be ranting that we need to kill off Garchomp in non-traditional ways? He clearly said that sending out a generic counter is the wrong way to go about things. >.>
 
Ttar is very easily countered by Swampert, Hippo, and Skarm. Just scout its set and switch in accordingly. Ttar is also very very slow and gets murdered by any faster poke with a good fighting attack. Bad typing and low speed are what hold him in check.
 
Figure it by yourself.

Or just fight me. You can even use 6 garchomps if you want to.
Your not being helpful. The only thing you have proven is that it is supossed to be banned. If you think it is counterable, give us examples. Telling us to battle you isn't helpful at all.
 
Ttar is very easily countered by Swampert, Hippo, and Skarm. Just scout its set and switch in accordingly. Ttar is also very very slow and gets murdered by any faster poke with a good fighting attack. Bad typing and low speed are what hold him in check.

Skarmory is not a tyranitar counter. in fact it's mere set up fodder for DD taunt versions and boah can tbolt it to hell.
 
Figure it by yourself.

Or just fight me. You can even use 6 garchomps if you want to.


I know how to stop Garchomps, i've done it many times before.

Taking down Garchomp is all about getting the right pokemon in on him, without taking the wrong attack. Switch Cresselia in on EQ or Fire Fang. Switch Skarmory in on Swords Dance or Outrage. Switch Starmie in on Swords Dance or Fire attack.

If you fuck up once, Garchomp gets a kill and is in a position to tear a hole in your team.
 
No, Garchomp is an important part of my team and it's not like I'm going to give you the formula to beat him.

See, you're saying about sending an ice pokémon and that's just one of the stupid mistakes that ppl do against my chomp.

I know how to stop Garchomps, i've done it many times before.

Taking down Garchomp is all about getting the right pokemon in on him, without taking the wrong attack. Switch Cresselia in on EQ or Fire Fang. Switch Skarmory in on Swords Dance or Outrage. Switch Starmie in on Swords Dance or Fire attack.

If you fuck up once, Garchomp gets a kill and is in a position to tear a hole in your team.
No no no no no! Wrong!
Sorry, you don't know how to counter a Garchomp.
 
Regardless of how broken Garchomp is or isn't, I would not support testing it in any way at this time.

Why? Because nobody can seem to agree on an accurate benchmark to rate the test by. Nobody can even agree on the line between centralization and overcentralization.

Gyarados, Tyranitar, Heracross, Heatran, Lucario, Metagross, Infernape, Salamence, Weavile, Porygon-Z...

Look familiar? There Pokemon are all major metagame threats that every team has to have some way of dealing with, or they will falter in the OU metagame. They all centralize the meta around them in some way. This is unavoidable.

Now, I'm not saying if Garchomp does or doesn't overcentralize OU around him or is or isn't broken because of Sand Veil. What I am saying is that the line needs to be established between overcentralization of a broken Pokemon and normal centralization around the stronger Pokemon.

Until that line is established, a test's results cannot be interpreted objectively and no conclusions can be drawn.
 
Okay, by that Logic Lucario has no counters? Gliscor, pfffft Specs Hp Ice!
Also guys about Garchomp having no counters, a lot of OU pokes have no counters. -_-
By the way, I loved that quote that you made of my argument (makes me wonder if you read it in full)

I agree that many OU pokes have no counters. I tried to explain that in my "long ass rant", but aparently I wasn't clear enough for some. So I will tie in together for everybody.

Of all the pokes who don't have counters in OU, Garchomp is the most dangerous, most used (a testimant to its strength), and most broken. Most people attempt to outpredict something in order to bring it a poke that threatening enought to beat it. This can be seen with Weavile, who does not counter Gengar in the traditional since, but can come in on a predicted Shadow Ball and Pursuit. Gengar has no counters, yet Weavile just "countered" it. This cannot happen with Garchomp, as its duel STAB lets it be powerful enough to deal netural damage to most, it outruns most of the Pokes that try and beat it, and if its in enough danger: switch out. All of the other Pokes in OU have a "suffient counter", but there really isnt one for Garchomp.
 
Gyarados, Tyranitar, Heracross, Heatran, Lucario, Metagross, Infernape, Salamence, Weavile, Porygon-Z...

Look familiar? There Pokemon are all major metagame threats that every team has to have some way of dealing with
No that's another mistake, ppl are too worried trying to counter stuff, that's why you loose so much. I never ever though in any of those pokemons when creating my team and i still can take the crap out of em. Any of them.
 
I know how to stop Garchomps, i've done it many times before.

Taking down Garchomp is all about getting the right pokemon in on him, without taking the wrong attack. Switch Cresselia in on EQ or Fire Fang. Switch Skarmory in on Swords Dance or Outrage. Switch Starmie in on Swords Dance or Fire attack.

If you fuck up once, Garchomp gets a kill and is in a position to tear a hole in your team.

Much the same as ANY OU/BL/UU sweeper in their own respective tiers.
Its all about prediction and figuring out your opponents set, and dealing with it. Chomp is nothing special.
 
No, Garchomp is an important part of my team and it's not like I'm going to give you the formula to beat him.

Because you have no idea.

See, you're saying about sending an ice pokémon and that's just one of the stupid mistakes that ppl do against my chomp.

I said NOT to do that. Unless you mean an Ice type move, in which case that is the only reliable way to do it. Dragon moves usually have STAB attached, and that makes you at risk of switching in on Outrage.


No no no no no! Wrong!
Sorry, you don't know how to counter a Garchomp.

Tell that to all the Garchomps i've beaten. You have said nothing useful. Defeating Garchomp is not some big "mystery" that only you have unlocked. All it takes is the brains to hit it in the right spot, so it dies more then you do.

WindScar is you have any idea what you are talking about at all, say so now or i'll go Kikyo on your ass. Not in the good way.

You have said nothing but "Garchomp has no counters" and "You are wrong!".
 
No that's another mistake, ppl are too worried trying to counter stuff, that's why you loose so much. I never ever though in any of those pokemons when creating my team and i still can take the crap out of em. Any of them.
I never said you had to construct your team specifically to counter those Pokemon, but you do need a way to deal with them. You might not be able to counter them in the strict sense of the word, but being able to at least handle them can be good enough.

BTW, lose is spelled with one "o".
 
What a coincidence, because I'm looking for a battle at the moment, and he thinks no one can beat him.

EDIT: I bet he uses Chainchomp and thinks he's invincible.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top