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Garchomp
- Thread starter Rising_Dusk
- Start date
Even with the new dragons, the old dragons, and Ditto, I'm pretty sure Chomp is bulky enough to take an unboosted Dragon Claw/Dragon Pulse as opposed to an Ice Beam.
My opinion may be the tiniest bit bias, seeing as I run YacheChomp on my team.
After some more play testing, gotta agree that ScarfChomp is THE chomp set for this gen. I find every other chomp too slow for anything while scarfchomp is speedy and gets the job done.
Hopefully chomp is not as big a deal this gen.
Hopefully chomp is not as big a deal this gen.
SD chomp actually works very well. The only problem is that outrage is even more of a iffy decision. It has incredible power, but it means that habanChomp (the item I use) can be revenge killed by ditto. Even at +2, ditto's dragon claw can't KO chomp through a haban.
SDchomp may not be the uberpowered sweeper it once was, but it's still up there.
SDchomp may not be the uberpowered sweeper it once was, but it's still up there.
Outrage is somewhat overkill on Garchomp; Earthquake is just fine after an SD and Dragon Claw is good coverage.
Still, I think that Ditto is the least of Garchomp's worries. Mostly just faster revengers that are capable of doing damage with even a neutral attack. Haban Chomp for example, is checked by: LO Latias, Latios, ScarfSazandora, LO Birijion, LO Terakion, LO Kobaruon, LO Doryuuzu, LO Starmie, etc.
Bolded pokemon are capable of bringing Garchomp down to 25% health or less despite the berry, while those in italics usually leave it in the range of 35%. Stealth Rock is of course included. Other threats include Jaroda, Meloetta, Torunerosu, Kerudio, Zoroark, and Kojondo, and those are new threats alone.
The point is, SDChomp can definitely rip stall to shreds, but it fairs significantly less against effective against offense, who is likely to be packing at least one or two of the aforementioned threats.
On the other hand, ScarfChomp has more difficulty against Stall while dealing with offense quite effectively, cleaning up once the sweepers have been adequately weakened.
garchomp has been fantastic for me
scarf set apparently is the set to run and it packs SO much power with fantastic ablity to rkill. the sd set worked quite well for me. if there werent latios and latias around, it may be able to run yache once again but thats theorymoning so im going to put that aside.
ive also tried invisichomp and this thing is outrageous for its ninja abilities or srsl disappearing.
scarf set apparently is the set to run and it packs SO much power with fantastic ablity to rkill. the sd set worked quite well for me. if there werent latios and latias around, it may be able to run yache once again but thats theorymoning so im going to put that aside.
ive also tried invisichomp and this thing is outrageous for its ninja abilities or srsl disappearing.
Nattorei does it better, it has superior typing and defenses, and can also add leech seed to rack up even more damage, and heal some of the incoming damage.
Chiming in to say ScarfChomp is beast.
Everyone remembers how awesome Scarf Flygon was last gen, no? It's hard to pick flygon considering the huge difference in power and its troll speed (though spikes/t-spikes immunity and U-Turn . . . hmm . . .).
With no U-Turn, Garchomp's gotta figure out what to do with its slots. None of them are as good as U-Turn, but it's got some toys to choose from . . .
Garchomp
Jolly (yes Jolly)
@Choice Scarf
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Fire Blast / Dragon Claw / Dragon Rush / Aqua Tail / Stealth Rock
-Fire Blast / Dragon Claw / Dragon Rush / Aqua Tail / Stealth Rock
Jolly Fire Fang isn't taking down any steel type not named Forry / Nattorei / Scizor / Genosekuto / Aianto, so you might as well add Skarm to that list and go with Fire Blast.
Dragon Claw I have found to be incredibly useful on the scarf set. There are so many times in the early game where you want to attack dragon but locking into Outrage would be suicidal. Dragon Claw is where its at!
Dragon Rush is an alternative for people who are rightfully put off by Dragon Claw's lack of power. Claw really can't 1hko anything (not even shit like Espeon or Blaziken), and misses 2hko's or even 3 on a lot of common pokemon. >__> It's early game, probably crap-shooting on an unknown switch in. Missing ain't the end of the world since with only Outrage/EQ you'd probably mis-predict anyway. That's the rationale behind Rush.
Aquatail is pretty much only for Balloon Doryuuzu switch ins (or maybe balloon Shanderaa?? Haven't seen any yet).
Stealth Rock makes its way in if you don't have a Stealth Rock user. Scarf Stealth Rock is surprisingly useful (in semi-stall, with some sturdy teammates), avoiding almost any taunt. Garchomp forces so many switch ins that there are turns where predicting with attacks is so difficult you might as well just Stealth Rock (these are the same hard-to-predict turns where you normally throw up your hands and spam Claw/Rush).
Anyone doing anything else with their extra Garchomp move slots?
Also I can't count the number of matches that have ended with Chomp v. Chomp or Chomp v. Ditto (though then Flygon v. Flygon/Jirachi ended way too many 4th gen battles, so point is moot metagame-wise.).
Everyone remembers how awesome Scarf Flygon was last gen, no? It's hard to pick flygon considering the huge difference in power and its troll speed (though spikes/t-spikes immunity and U-Turn . . . hmm . . .).
With no U-Turn, Garchomp's gotta figure out what to do with its slots. None of them are as good as U-Turn, but it's got some toys to choose from . . .
Garchomp
Jolly (yes Jolly)
@Choice Scarf
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Fire Blast / Dragon Claw / Dragon Rush / Aqua Tail / Stealth Rock
-Fire Blast / Dragon Claw / Dragon Rush / Aqua Tail / Stealth Rock
Jolly Fire Fang isn't taking down any steel type not named Forry / Nattorei / Scizor / Genosekuto / Aianto, so you might as well add Skarm to that list and go with Fire Blast.
Dragon Claw I have found to be incredibly useful on the scarf set. There are so many times in the early game where you want to attack dragon but locking into Outrage would be suicidal. Dragon Claw is where its at!
Dragon Rush is an alternative for people who are rightfully put off by Dragon Claw's lack of power. Claw really can't 1hko anything (not even shit like Espeon or Blaziken), and misses 2hko's or even 3 on a lot of common pokemon. >__> It's early game, probably crap-shooting on an unknown switch in. Missing ain't the end of the world since with only Outrage/EQ you'd probably mis-predict anyway. That's the rationale behind Rush.
Aquatail is pretty much only for Balloon Doryuuzu switch ins (or maybe balloon Shanderaa?? Haven't seen any yet).
Stealth Rock makes its way in if you don't have a Stealth Rock user. Scarf Stealth Rock is surprisingly useful (in semi-stall, with some sturdy teammates), avoiding almost any taunt. Garchomp forces so many switch ins that there are turns where predicting with attacks is so difficult you might as well just Stealth Rock (these are the same hard-to-predict turns where you normally throw up your hands and spam Claw/Rush).
Anyone doing anything else with their extra Garchomp move slots?
Also I can't count the number of matches that have ended with Chomp v. Chomp or Chomp v. Ditto (though then Flygon v. Flygon/Jirachi ended way too many 4th gen battles, so point is moot metagame-wise.).
they would be very different.
Nattorei is a dedicated physical wall.
Garchomp on the other hand is not a physical wall. It can however technically played sort of as a tank, who with support moves (toxic, sr, etc though not too many) and its offensive prowess can be a good one at that.
I just dont see any reason to compare the two in such manner.
I've used the standard scarfchomp set
Garchomp@CScarf
Jolly nature
252atk/252spe/6HP
~ outrage
~ dragon claw
~ earthquake
~ stone edge/fire fang
Stone Edge is mostly for the genies? I never found Stone Edge all that useful on Flygon, so it never even crossed my mind to run it on Garchomp. There aren't too many flying pokemon off the top of my head that Garchomp couldn't just maul with Dragon Claw (after SR).
I realy love the garchomp vs blaziken scenario. With all the high jump kick unning around gachomp sand veil is very2 annoying. I mean fire blast do miss sometime and having almost ALL your attack even worse than Fire Blast doesnt help. HJK only has 71 acc ? come on. SD chomp still works well though.
Zapdos mostly and it eases prediction against fire types that may switch out to a Flying type (and imo the fire type attacks are often too weak to OHKO Fire Fang doesn't even OHKO standart 252/252 HP/Def Nattorei).
Dragon Rush is an option for early game as you said but you miss the option for a late game sweep with Dragon Claw to pick off weakend stuff if you don't want to take the risk of Outrages confusion ending your sweep and it allows you to revenge Dragons without locking yourself into Outrage and 75 acc isn't reliable against other Dragons that are likely to have Super effetive options that will OHKO you.
When running swords dance(like you probably should when using a berry.), Haban is an absolute must, though.
I say stay with the say scarf set.
Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)
~ Double Chop- Breaks those pesky subs.
~ Outrage
~ Earthquake
~ Fire Fang
Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)
~ Double Chop- Breaks those pesky subs.
~ Outrage
~ Earthquake
~ Fire Fang
Well, Garchomp does have notable resists, namely fire, Electric, and rock. And sand veil, which can make critical OHKOs miss. Lets not forget that it hits like a truck, with a stab dragon claw for stealth rock suffleling with sandstorm and massive damage. It fills a different niche from Nattoeri, one of a tank/shuffler.
1. Nattorei has more resist, none to fire, but water, ice, steel, Ghost, Dragon and Dark count for something.
2.Rough Skin Garchomp can't have Sand Veil ^^
3. Your absolutly right that they fill a different niche, however Nattoreis high powered Stabs (gyro Ball and Power Whip) arent that bad too and i killed tons of Pokemon with nattorei.
Garchomp can use a more defensive set with rough skin, but IMO its a bit gimmicky and its weakenesses can be to easy exploited so you prpably won't have too much success.
1. Don't underestimate fire resist. Also no fighting weakness. Admitedly 4x Ice and 2x Dragon trade off for 4x Fire and 2x Fighting.
2. So just run it sand veil. Rough Skin defensive Garchomp is stupid and can't run sleep talk.
3. Rest Talk 102 spd shuffle. One of the fastest pokemon in the game that can do this. I.E.
Garchomp @ Leftovers
Sand Veil
Impish 252 HP/ Mixed Defenses
~Dragon Tail
~Swords Dance/Filler
~Rest
~Sleep Talk
SD, get hit, rest it off then shuffle things. It won't die quickly, and +2 Stab Dragon Tail can really kill stuff. Admittedly its stallchomp, but still.
And because this will come up, you can have sleep talk and dragon tail on the same set (just not with rough skin). Teach 4th gen Garchomp Sleep Talk and transfer it. Teach it Dragon Tail. Done.
I've actually used this set before with some minor differences
garchomp@leftovers
adamant nature (you could go impish or other defensive natures i guess)
252HP/252spe/4atk
~sleep talk
~double chop (breaking sub is actaully awesome on this set when it runs across a dedicated stall team)
~swords dance
~rest
Read the quotes, it's about reflecting incoming damage with rough skin, and most likely rugged helmet causing the opponent to take 25% health whenever they hit with a contact move. You can argue all you want, the reason they were compared is because they could fill that same niche, as no other pokemon would be able to(Sharpedo for example doesn't have the defenses to do it)
If you're running sand veil, the whole point behind the idea is gone. This is no longer about rough skin abuse.
Kurimugan would like to have word with you. :P
Its pretty clear to me even in Gen5 Scarfchomp prescence alone still manages to cause a whole game to degenerate into revenge kills. Its not exactly hard to take out Nattorei and once hes gone Scarfchomp or any of the other big dragons with CB/CS or Specs are pretty much free to do way too much and obscene ammounts of damage which simply can't be switched into.
Often feels more like a way to cheat the species clause sometimes with how all of them do virtually the same thing. They CAN do other strategies but nobody actually does because there is no point.
Often feels more like a way to cheat the species clause sometimes with how all of them do virtually the same thing. They CAN do other strategies but nobody actually does because there is no point.
again they are VERY different two pokemons. no matter how much garchomp goes defensively, it will never be as nearly as good of a wall nattorei is and no matter what nattorei does, it won't be as good of a tank garchomp is (which was explained earlier). You can argue all you want but it doesn't change the fact that the two discussed mons are way too different to be compared in such matter.
Kurimungan doesn't have the defenses to do this in OU either ( still much better than Sharpedo though^^).
Anybody ready for a LOL? Okay, here it goes.
So... has SpecialChomp ever been viable? Could it perhaps be viable now? (LOL yeah right)
It does have a pretty good special movepool, though, just sayin'.
SpecsChomp
Modest / Timid
4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Earth Power
- Fire Blast
- Surf / Dragon Pulse
So... has SpecialChomp ever been viable? Could it perhaps be viable now? (LOL yeah right)
It does have a pretty good special movepool, though, just sayin'.
SpecsChomp
Modest / Timid
4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Earth Power
- Fire Blast
- Surf / Dragon Pulse