pac
Ubertrainer2000
Ubertrainer2000
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Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
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Pet Mod [Gen 1] RBY CAP [Feature-Complete]
- Thread starter Sabelette
- Start date
Ubertrainer2000
and to conclude CAP4, the vote winner is pac!
Name: Mandrelec
Typing: Electric
Stats:
HP: 110
ATK: 130
DEF: 90
SPC: 50
SPE: 35
Notable Moves:
Thunderbolt, Thunder Wave, Thunder, Body Slam, Submission, Hyper Beam, Counter, Seismic Toss
Height: 3'9"
Weight: 95 lbs. / 43 kg
Pokedex Entries:
Red and Blue - This Pokemon uses its electricity to subdue and consume much larger foes.
Yellow - Its spots deal a deadly electrical shock upon touch, and the lights they emit scare away other Pokemon.
Stadium - Its electricity can unintentionally harm those imprudent enough to be near it, especially if in the water.
How to Obtain: Has a 20% chance of being encountered when fishing on Route 10, at Level 15. There would also be a second trainer on the route, above the Jr. Trainer A that blocks the way to Rock Tunnel, that would feature a Mandrelic alongside a Voltorb. This trainer would hint the player towards the Power Plant that lies currently inaccessible below.
Gen 2+ Egg Group: Water 1
Level-up Moves:
Thundershock - Lvl 1
Tail Whip - Lvl 1
Bite - Lvl 6
Scratch - Lvl 17
Thunder Wave - Lvl 24
Focus Energy - Lvl 30
Light Screen - Lvl 36
Thunder - Lvl 42
TM Moves:
TM06 - Toxic
TM08 - Body Slam
TM09 - Take Down
TM10 - Double-Edge
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Submission
TM18 - Counter
TM19 - Seismic Toss
TM24 - Thunderbolt
TM25 - Thunder
TM28 - Dig
TM31 - Mimic
TM32 - Double Team
TM34 - Bide
TM40 - Skull Bash
TM44 - Rest
TM50 - Substitute
HM01 - Flash
Tradeback Moves:
Headbutt - TM02
BubbleBeam - Egg Move involving Poliwag
Aurora Beam - Egg Move involving Horsea
Haze - Egg Move involving Poliwag
Disable - Egg Move involving Horsea
Splash - Egg Move involving Poliwag
Name: Mandrelec
Typing: Electric
Stats:
HP: 110
ATK: 130
DEF: 90
SPC: 50
SPE: 35
Notable Moves:
Thunderbolt, Thunder Wave, Thunder, Body Slam, Submission, Hyper Beam, Counter, Seismic Toss
Height: 3'9"
Weight: 95 lbs. / 43 kg
Pokedex Entries:
Red and Blue - This Pokemon uses its electricity to subdue and consume much larger foes.
Yellow - Its spots deal a deadly electrical shock upon touch, and the lights they emit scare away other Pokemon.
Stadium - Its electricity can unintentionally harm those imprudent enough to be near it, especially if in the water.
How to Obtain: Has a 20% chance of being encountered when fishing on Route 10, at Level 15. There would also be a second trainer on the route, above the Jr. Trainer A that blocks the way to Rock Tunnel, that would feature a Mandrelic alongside a Voltorb. This trainer would hint the player towards the Power Plant that lies currently inaccessible below.
Gen 2+ Egg Group: Water 1
Level-up Moves:
Thundershock - Lvl 1
Tail Whip - Lvl 1
Bite - Lvl 6
Scratch - Lvl 17
Thunder Wave - Lvl 24
Focus Energy - Lvl 30
Light Screen - Lvl 36
Thunder - Lvl 42
TM Moves:
TM06 - Toxic
TM08 - Body Slam
TM09 - Take Down
TM10 - Double-Edge
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Submission
TM18 - Counter
TM19 - Seismic Toss
TM24 - Thunderbolt
TM25 - Thunder
TM28 - Dig
TM31 - Mimic
TM32 - Double Team
TM34 - Bide
TM40 - Skull Bash
TM44 - Rest
TM50 - Substitute
HM01 - Flash
Tradeback Moves:
Headbutt - TM02
BubbleBeam - Egg Move involving Poliwag
Aurora Beam - Egg Move involving Horsea
Haze - Egg Move involving Poliwag
Disable - Egg Move involving Horsea
Splash - Egg Move involving Poliwag
Important news, which is why this is a separate post: RBY CAP will be getting a 3-month ladder on the main Pokemon Showdown! server!!!!!!!! This is enormous as it gives us far more ability to actually playtest the mod, but this was definitely a shock to gastlies and I, so we're going to pause slates as CAP4 concludes, take a moment to figure out how to best use the incoming attention to improve the mod, and make some plans to give this mod a good playtest and follow-up balancing. Look forward to more announcements shortly!
Announcement: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/pet-mod-of-the-season-voting.3747817/post-10208377
Announcement: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/pet-mod-of-the-season-voting.3747817/post-10208377
So some updates! First, we have a spreadsheet now! It containes info on the first 4 CAPs, and will be updated as more CAPs are added:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...0UFUOwzBmVGQ/edit?gid=955529693#gid=955529693
Sabel and I were discussing the two existing mons in the original, abandoned RBY CAP project: Lagosnow and Dracolilla. We were considering bringing back these mons, or parts of these mons, into this mod and want to hear your general opinion on it.
In case you forgot or weren't here for the first slate, here's the basic run-down of each mon:
Lagosnow is a Grass/Ice type that was meant to complete a matchup triangle with Cloyster and Articuni (Cloyster beats Articuno, Articuno beats Lagosnow, Lagosnow beats Cloyster. The mon's statspread and relavant movepool were the following:
100/60/50/115/80
Stun Spore, Ice Beam, Razor Leaf, Body Slam, Rest, Substitute, Hyper Beam
Dracolilla is a Bug/Dragon type that was meant to be a mon of an underutilized type (Bug and Dragon are both basically nonexistent in RBY OU). The mon's statspread and relavant movepool were the following:
80/80/95/100/100
Twineedle, Razor Leaf, Thunder Wave, Recover*, Hyper Beam, High Jump Kick, Explosion, Psychic, Agility, Thunderbolt
*Thunder Wave and Recover are incompatible on the same set
Overall these were two fully fleshed-out CAPs that died with the mod. We don't have to fully bring back these mons, but if there are elements that you find interesting in each mon, or some things that should be left behind (like Dracolilla having every move in existence LOL) then feel free to discuss below!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...0UFUOwzBmVGQ/edit?gid=955529693#gid=955529693
Sabel and I were discussing the two existing mons in the original, abandoned RBY CAP project: Lagosnow and Dracolilla. We were considering bringing back these mons, or parts of these mons, into this mod and want to hear your general opinion on it.
In case you forgot or weren't here for the first slate, here's the basic run-down of each mon:
Lagosnow is a Grass/Ice type that was meant to complete a matchup triangle with Cloyster and Articuni (Cloyster beats Articuno, Articuno beats Lagosnow, Lagosnow beats Cloyster. The mon's statspread and relavant movepool were the following:
100/60/50/115/80
Stun Spore, Ice Beam, Razor Leaf, Body Slam, Rest, Substitute, Hyper Beam
Dracolilla is a Bug/Dragon type that was meant to be a mon of an underutilized type (Bug and Dragon are both basically nonexistent in RBY OU). The mon's statspread and relavant movepool were the following:
80/80/95/100/100
Twineedle, Razor Leaf, Thunder Wave, Recover*, Hyper Beam, High Jump Kick, Explosion, Psychic, Agility, Thunderbolt
*Thunder Wave and Recover are incompatible on the same set
Overall these were two fully fleshed-out CAPs that died with the mod. We don't have to fully bring back these mons, but if there are elements that you find interesting in each mon, or some things that should be left behind (like Dracolilla having every move in existence LOL) then feel free to discuss below!
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I personally would love to bring back Lagosnow's concept and typing but have new votes on the stats/movepool/flavor. The typing is extra nice because we've added 2 Fires and a Fighting and they definitely need more targets, and Lagosnow addresses some existing OU stuff like Starmie and Cloyster nicely to help balance things out.
Dracolilla, I could pass on because the horrendous typing led to some bad balance decisions (yours truly overcompensated on the movepool as a baby RBYer). I'm down to bring it back to the concept stage and try "underutilized type" again, I think I'd submit a Bug/Fighting and take away that wild Special move pool and focus more on it being a Ground resist + Rock neutral that isn't weak to Ice, giving it some room to play with the Lagosnow/Rhydon/Cloyster type stuff (also it can have Twineedle as a treat).
If people like significant pieces of these old mons I'd personally be down for a "rapid CAP" exercise where we have quick votes on the competitive components to diversify current CAP a bit with these new mons as we go into the ladder. For me I like Lagosnow's concept and typing and I'm cool with the stats but would like to leave it open for people to submit new spreads and go from there, with Dracolilla I'd want to restart from the typing phase.
Dracolilla, I could pass on because the horrendous typing led to some bad balance decisions (yours truly overcompensated on the movepool as a baby RBYer). I'm down to bring it back to the concept stage and try "underutilized type" again, I think I'd submit a Bug/Fighting and take away that wild Special move pool and focus more on it being a Ground resist + Rock neutral that isn't weak to Ice, giving it some room to play with the Lagosnow/Rhydon/Cloyster type stuff (also it can have Twineedle as a treat).
If people like significant pieces of these old mons I'd personally be down for a "rapid CAP" exercise where we have quick votes on the competitive components to diversify current CAP a bit with these new mons as we go into the ladder. For me I like Lagosnow's concept and typing and I'm cool with the stats but would like to leave it open for people to submit new spreads and go from there, with Dracolilla I'd want to restart from the typing phase.
I'll be honest - I really don't like Dracolilla.
Its concept would get veto'ed by the current rules as being just "X typing" and not defining a proper role for the pokemon.
Its typing is insane, defensively and offensively.
It has great and imo uninteresting BST
Its movepool is large, bloated and unfocused.
[I also don't like how it looks, and its visual niche is kinda contested by Gargoyle. But those are minor things].
There's a lot of rough here and I don't see a diamond. I'd be down to skipping it and not doing anything - no redoing the same concept, no reusing the same sprite, nothing. Just skip this one.
Lagosnow is a lot better - the typing fits to make our other (struggling) CAPs better, it has a defined role in the metagame via the concept (unlike Lilla) and [subjective] I like the art. I would be very down to keeping the art, typing and concept and just redo the competitive movepool and flavor movepool steps, everything else staying.
Its concept would get veto'ed by the current rules as being just "X typing" and not defining a proper role for the pokemon.
Its typing is insane, defensively and offensively.
It has great and imo uninteresting BST
Its movepool is large, bloated and unfocused.
[I also don't like how it looks, and its visual niche is kinda contested by Gargoyle. But those are minor things].
There's a lot of rough here and I don't see a diamond. I'd be down to skipping it and not doing anything - no redoing the same concept, no reusing the same sprite, nothing. Just skip this one.
Lagosnow is a lot better - the typing fits to make our other (struggling) CAPs better, it has a defined role in the metagame via the concept (unlike Lilla) and [subjective] I like the art. I would be very down to keeping the art, typing and concept and just redo the competitive movepool and flavor movepool steps, everything else staying.
Echoing Dracolilla's criticisms made on the thread. Defintely think the concept is worth a redo since as it stands it looks like the Voodoom of the project, and "underused typing" has a lot of potential. However, with the new rules of the project revival said concept would be ilegal, so its up to the community if they want to break the rules to somewhat revive that idea.
I also agree that in contrast, Lagosnow deserves to not only stay in the project, but have some of its aspects revisited. Its concept its way more specific, which doesn't seem fun enough to exploring again. As said before typing+concept can be retained easily, and its the stats+movepool be changed. As it stands, Lagosnow fits pretty well into the current meta, especially since it gives all 3 newest caps an extra niche.
I also agree that in contrast, Lagosnow deserves to not only stay in the project, but have some of its aspects revisited. Its concept its way more specific, which doesn't seem fun enough to exploring again. As said before typing+concept can be retained easily, and its the stats+movepool be changed. As it stands, Lagosnow fits pretty well into the current meta, especially since it gives all 3 newest caps an extra niche.
After the discussion held here and on discord we have decided on the following course of action.
Dracolilla will not be added to the mod. Overall it was unpopular and most people were not happy with how the CAP turned out.
Lagosnow was a lot more popular, so we will be brining this CAP back, but we will have a slate to modify the mon a bit. Essentially, we will be keeping the Grass/Ice typing but will have new submissions for the Stats/Movepool. We will also re-do the Flavor, but there will be an option to just keep the original design for Lagosnow if that's the popular opinion.
With that, let's start with stats!
HP: 100
Attack: 60
Defense: 50
Special: 115
Speed: 80
Dracolilla will not be added to the mod. Overall it was unpopular and most people were not happy with how the CAP turned out.
Lagosnow was a lot more popular, so we will be brining this CAP back, but we will have a slate to modify the mon a bit. Essentially, we will be keeping the Grass/Ice typing but will have new submissions for the Stats/Movepool. We will also re-do the Flavor, but there will be an option to just keep the original design for Lagosnow if that's the popular opinion.
With that, let's start with stats!
Slate 0 Part 1: Stats
You will have 5 days to submit a stat spread for this Pokemon. Please give an HP, Attack, Defense, Special, and Speed stat and specify which is which. Keep in mind the typing for this mon is Grass/Ice. Some guidelines:- Be careful not to go overboard with the stats. Remember that the goal is for the CAP to be somewhere in the range of 9th-20th in power on a theoretical viability rankings.
- Similarly, be careful not to directly outclass anything relevant in OU
HP: 100
Attack: 60
Defense: 50
Special: 115
Speed: 80
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100/60/50/115/80
unchanged jumpscare
unchanged jumpscare
I propose slightly less bulk and an increased physical attack
HP: 90
Attack: 75
Defense: 50
Special: 115
Speed: 80
HP: 90
Attack: 75
Defense: 50
Special: 115
Speed: 80
HP: 110
Attack: 50
Defense: 75
Special: 110
Speed: 65
Suggesting a slower, bulkier set. Grass types get good status moves, and the Ice type gets good use out of STAB spam and potential freezes - which benefit from bulk to make sure you land these (the existing set involving Stun Spore, Ice Beam, Rest, and something else benefits). 60 base speed lets it move before the other slow statusers (Chansey and Exeggutor) but it lacks the physical power of Exeggutor (ie explosion) or the raw hp to perfectly wall special attackers (Zam psychic is a garunteed 4hKO compared to a possible 6hKO on chansey).
Attack: 50
Defense: 75
Special: 110
Speed: 65
Suggesting a slower, bulkier set. Grass types get good status moves, and the Ice type gets good use out of STAB spam and potential freezes - which benefit from bulk to make sure you land these (the existing set involving Stun Spore, Ice Beam, Rest, and something else benefits). 60 base speed lets it move before the other slow statusers (Chansey and Exeggutor) but it lacks the physical power of Exeggutor (ie explosion) or the raw hp to perfectly wall special attackers (Zam psychic is a garunteed 4hKO compared to a possible 6hKO on chansey).
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HP: 120
ATK: 70
DEF: 40
SPC: 95
SPE: 80
This is intentionally almost identical to my original submission, with minor alterations suggested by Sabelette. The physical bulk is almost literally identical to prior, with a minor reduction in special bulk making way for a slight increase in power. These changes don't really affect full HP 1v1s too much but they attempt to push Lagosnow in a slightly more aggressive direction than my last spread, with more breaking capability and a little less specially defensive staying power.
ATK: 70
DEF: 40
SPC: 95
SPE: 80
This is intentionally almost identical to my original submission, with minor alterations suggested by Sabelette. The physical bulk is almost literally identical to prior, with a minor reduction in special bulk making way for a slight increase in power. These changes don't really affect full HP 1v1s too much but they attempt to push Lagosnow in a slightly more aggressive direction than my last spread, with more breaking capability and a little less specially defensive staying power.
Eve
Bedal Roscoe
Reasoning: Original is balanced around Ice Beam but no Blizzard, Eve's spread perfectly gives it enough power to hit hard without murdering everything with Blizz and gives it a notable physical weakness to keep it in check. Bedal Roscoe's spread is close to the original but nerfing its bulk a bit helps keep it in check; I still think all the other spreads just give this thing too much offense and 110/75/110 bulk is too much for something with better offense than Starmie to boot.
Bedal Roscoe
Reasoning: Original is balanced around Ice Beam but no Blizzard, Eve's spread perfectly gives it enough power to hit hard without murdering everything with Blizz and gives it a notable physical weakness to keep it in check. Bedal Roscoe's spread is close to the original but nerfing its bulk a bit helps keep it in check; I still think all the other spreads just give this thing too much offense and 110/75/110 bulk is too much for something with better offense than Starmie to boot.
original
eve
living 4 stosses seems p important, keeps the chansey matchup relatively consistent regardless of chansey's moveset and makes substitute an option. underspeeding vic and cloy seems undesirable, unsure what the idea was there but coming in on any pt locked mon is nice to have and thats the only difference in the speed tiers, i dont see any appeal to having it underspeed vic/cloy. also yea the phys bulk might be too much anyway. so that leaves original and eve spreads
i can see reasons for both between these two, 120/95 taking a bit less from stoss and a smaller gap between stoss damage and chans ice beam damage with eve spread is nice. 95 special razor leaf having bad odds to 2hko starmie through recover is annoying, even if u position correctly vs mie there are p big odds that u just get twaved and mie gets to exit healthy ish. 95 special razor loses the 3hko on snorlax compared to with 115 special, i can see that as going either way in terms of which calc vs lax is preferable. ultimately going with the 115 special as my slight preference bc of the psyblizz starmie matchup but overall both of these spreads are v good options to me, and looks like eve spread will win so yay
eve
living 4 stosses seems p important, keeps the chansey matchup relatively consistent regardless of chansey's moveset and makes substitute an option. underspeeding vic and cloy seems undesirable, unsure what the idea was there but coming in on any pt locked mon is nice to have and thats the only difference in the speed tiers, i dont see any appeal to having it underspeed vic/cloy. also yea the phys bulk might be too much anyway. so that leaves original and eve spreads
i can see reasons for both between these two, 120/95 taking a bit less from stoss and a smaller gap between stoss damage and chans ice beam damage with eve spread is nice. 95 special razor leaf having bad odds to 2hko starmie through recover is annoying, even if u position correctly vs mie there are p big odds that u just get twaved and mie gets to exit healthy ish. 95 special razor loses the 3hko on snorlax compared to with 115 special, i can see that as going either way in terms of which calc vs lax is preferable. ultimately going with the 115 special as my slight preference bc of the psyblizz starmie matchup but overall both of these spreads are v good options to me, and looks like eve spread will win so yay