Gen III Battle Frontier Discussion and Records

Damn it's finally happened. I personally don't RNG manipulate, so I feel a certain type of way about manipulating the starting drafts in the Factory. Especially when as of today, I have an ongoing Open level streak at 63 (again). Sure any decent player could smash through with a good team, but it seems like a different beast than the normal factory. Is it still the same game if you never swap? It would be sad to see the discussion grow stale from congruent teams being used by hitting the same frame. It just seems less like the same record I embarked on originally. Speedrun.com specifies if manipulations were used, but I doubt anyone would support the idea of a separate leaderboard for "manipulaters", so I worry my point is moot.

To keep me from sounding like a total sourpuss, I thought I'd contribute some fun replays. The second replay is Battle one of Set 9 (after one of my most meager starting drafts yet) and features a Vaporeon4 with a 1IV in Sp.Attack.



I totally get where you're coming from because it IS a very different experience. If rng manipulated runs start drowning out natural runs then I think giving them a separate leaderboard or marker (like for retail/emulator) would be justified. I'd never want other people's hard-won achievements to go uncelebrated.

On another note I was able to get to a 50 streak in Battle Factory lvl 50 singles on Sunday. The frames I shared for set 7 worked really well. Alakazam is a really impressive lead. I tried out a new frame window for set 8 and aimed for 1629-1646. Here's a pic of the spreadsheet where I mapped out the initial teams:

mons 8.png

Note that these are in the exact order they showed up.

Oddly enough I'm pretty sure that I hit frame 1635 except Latios was gone, the other 5 were shifted to the right, and the last spot was Tentacruel. It worked fine on an emulator while using frame-advancing so I'm thinking it might have been a split frame? IIRC split frames are impossible to predict and essentially blend the results of two adjacent frames. Starmie worked as a good backup lead but there just wasn't enough oomph to the rest of the team to get beyond 50.
 
Greetings people,

it's been a while since I've last been active on this forum/discord, but after seeing the "Bank of Hoenn" getting introduced by some members in the community, my passion for the Frontier has been reignited instantly.

Due to finally having access to Colo/XD exclusives, there were a lot of teams from others members of the community I wanted to try out and see how far I can get in the Battle Tower as a relative beginner.

I had a lot of fun trying out Kommo's Moltres team "Diamond Dust Crusaders", and was surprised how well Moltres is capable to perform in the Tower all by itself.

I experienced quite a few entertaining battles, from Moltres soloing entire teams to Moltres saving me in a 1v1 situation against a Suicune.

Unfortunately, I didn't make it that far, as my run was ended by a rather unfortunate encounter with a Whiscash 4 which haxed my team to certain death at battle 112.

Overall this has been the most fun I've ever had with any team in the Frontier and I feel like Moltres definitely deserves a lot of praise considering how well it performs in the Tower, sometimes even all by itself.

It's not a streak I want to submit for leaderbords purposes, considering it's not even my team, but it's my first opportunity for a contribution to the forums.

Team used:
Loss:

Picture:
IMG_20210216_225807[1].jpg
 

The Pike Bugs are Back
:latios: :heracross: :blissey:


Hello everyone, it's been a while since I actually updated the thread with a streak of mine. I've been taking a break away mostly since I had other important projects at the time and it was hard for me to actually dedicate some of my free time to streaking. I've been getting back into it lately and after a couple of heartbreaks at the Battle Dome. I decided to revisit and came back to my old Pike team mostly due to the fact that I felt that 289 wins was not really a good record worthy of it.

I'm proud to report that I have an on-going 308 cleared rooms streak on retail Emerald at Lv.50. It's basically the same team but with some slight changes from my previous streak.

1613591300209.png

Enkidu (Latios) (M) @ Lum Berry
IVs: 4 Atk
EVs: 28 HP / 12 Def / 244 SpA / 6 SpD / 220 Spe
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt

Latios pretty much remains unchanged with the exception that Dragon Claw has been dropped in favor of Ice Beam. The reason why I made this change is simply to have a better match-up against Pokemon like Zapdos and Salamence. With Heracross dropping Rock Slide, I felt that the coverage was much more important since it allows Latios to threaten the Flying types that can OHKO Heracross with their STAB Flying moves.

Latios is pretty much self-explanatory: It's the best sweeper in the game with a great powerful STAB in Psychic, access to Calm Mind to increase its special bulk and power, extraordinary Speed and coverage to threaten most of the Pokemon in Frontier. It pretty much cleans opponents in Singles with a Calm Mind and Levitate combines with Heracross' banded Earthquake to OHKO most opponents making it a deadly combination.

1613591326192.png

Megaera (Heracross) (F) @ Choice Band
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def / 15 SpA / 30 SpD
EVs: 248 Atk / 10 SpD / 252 Spe
Ability: Guts
Jolly Nature
- Facade
- Earthquake
- Brick Break
- Hidden Power Bug

Heracross is the most changed Pokemon on this new version of the team. Thanks to Runeblade14 who suggested running HP Bug on the event that I might reach +841 cleared rooms for Wobbufett spawning in the Wild Rooms, I ended up RNGing on my cartridge a different Heracross; HP Bug is a more accurate alternative to Megahorn. However, I actually really enjoyed using the move: It's strong enough to retain most of the super-effective KOs Megahorn can achieve, it's still strong enough to 2HKO Wild Dusclops (specially if they are unlucky to trigger Guts) and it doesn't misses unless it triggers Brightpowder.

The other change was replacing Rock Slide with Facade and the reason is pretty simple: Game Freak decided that on this generation, spread moves that don't damage your ally will be nerfed to 50% of their original base power. This makes Surf on Gen 3 a 47 base power move and an extremely weak attack to use even with STAB. Now imagine how much damage Rock Slide would be dealing in doubles LOL. Facade on the other hand is a powerful move that has 140 power once Guts is activated and will pretty much obliterate anything that is not named Gengar.

248 Atk EVs gives Heracross the highest Attack stat possible due to IV requirements of HP Bug. Max Speed with a Jolly nature to outspeed as many Pokemon as possible, specially foes like Houndoom and Alakazam. Unlike the previous HP Ghost spread, the 8 leftover EVs will actually increase a stat point which makes HP Bug an even better spread stat-wise.

Guts is the key since it allows Heracross to be burned or poisoned on purpose. While it looks counterproductive at first to poison it and lose health on every 3 steps, the damage Heracross is capable of dishing out makes it very worthwhile. Hell, on a double battle, you can even have Blissey poison it on purpose. It also makes nostalgia rooms free since it increases the odds of the gentlemen healing your party or in case it inflicts the rest of the team with another status, Heracross won't be useless.

1613591358359.png

Garnett (Blissey) (F) @ Leftovers
IVs: 4 Atk
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Def / 84 Spe
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 50
Bold Nature
- Toxic
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss
- Aromatherapy

The cleric support for my team and the reason why Pike "feels easy." Blissey only needs to click Aromatherapy on a Wild Pokemon battle to heal my whole team while it can replenish any lost HP, outside the battlefield, with Soft-boiled. To replenish more HP, simply use Soft-boiled on Milotic who is the wild Pokemon that can't harm Blissey at all regardless of what it does. Toxic is used to avoid making Blissey a sitting duck against Dusclops if you are fighting on the first 280 rooms and Seismic Toss as the main way to cause damage.

84 Spe EVs are needed to outspeed both Haxrein and Lapras who carries OHKO moves allowing her to poison them before they move. Max Defense to tank non-STAB physical hits and the rest goes into HP for a nice perfect Leftovers number.

QuoteResult 1Result 2Tier
For some odd reason, I felt a wave
of nostalgia coming from it...
Status ailmentHeals one or two PokémonGood room to pick if Heracross is either burned or poisoned since it increases the odds of the Gentleman healing your party. I usually avoid it early if my party is at full health. Always pick on the 13th room on every round because lol, your round is basically over at this point.

Usually avoided on the 11th room if you are in a round where you face the Pike Queen as otherwise Blissey struggles using Aromatherapy on the boss fight.
Is it...A Trainer?
I sense the presence of people...
Single battleHeals all PokémonAvoid this room at all costs. Not worth having an NPC battle without healing.

Because the AI has lower IVs in case of a trainer battle, I usually pick this only on the 13th room of each round.
It seems to have the distinct aroma
of Pokémon wafting around it...
Wild PokémonSingle battle, then heal partyPossibly the second best option. Wild Pokemon rooms are excellent opportunities for Blissey to heal the team from unexpected Kirlia/Dusclop events inflicting status ailments while repleneshing the team's HP with Softboiled. You can also lure wild Dusclops / Milotic to status Heracross which allows it to exploit Guts while making Nostalgia rooms free.

I don't recommend over-abusing this choice because the other chance is an NPC battle with healing. Doesn't sounds bad at first but the AI uses Pokemon with higher IVs. Considering that my team doesn't really has a strong defensive synergy, be mindful of this.
I seem to have heard something...
It may have been whispering...
Idle NPCDouble battleBest room to pick. Always pick unless one of Latios or Heracross are down. Thanks to Banded Heracross' Earthquake and Latios' high Speed, this combination can easily pick OHKOs and you can double target a specific threat to avoid mayor damage.

Double battles are mostly quick and you'll rarely lose a Pokemon in the process. If an idle NPC appears instead, it's basically a free pass.
From every path I sense a dreadful
presence...
Battle Pike Queen LucyAs long as the team is in good shape, you will be on a great position since Latios beats both Seviper and Gyarados and Steelix only needs a bit of chip damage to get OHKO'd by Banded Brick Break.

  • :granbull: :ursaring: Banded Normal types are a nightmare for this team since I got no resistances or immunities to their moves. The worst part is that Granbull gets a guaranteed kill depending on what it chooses since it could pick either Shadow Ball or Mega Kick with the latter breaking Blissey's eggs into smithereens.
  • :metagross: It's a troublesome Pokemon on Singles since I got no Steel type resist on the team either. Usually Blissey is sacked to land the OHKO with Earthquake. Extremely bad news if it leads on a non-healing battle. On Doubles, it's not so threatening since you can double target it. (Guts boosted Earthquake will OHKO any set)
  • :aggron: Deserves a special mention since it destroyed my last two attempts. Aggron 1 has Quick Claw and access to Aerial Ace to end Heracross and neither Blissey or Latios appreciate taking Iron Tail. No Iron Tail resistant switch-in makes this mon extremely painful unless it misses.
  • :aerodactyl: Dangerous if Set 2 gets an Ancient Power boost, but relatively harmless if it's locked on anything else.
  • :metagross: + :gengar: Explosion with Ghost type is a pretty dangerous combination and with the lack of Protect, it can be deadly if unchecked. To make matters worse, all Golem needs is a Quick Claw activation to completely fuck you over.
Pretty sure they are out there more threats but will update this section as I find them


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The Pike Bugs are Back
:latios: :heracross: :blissey:


Hello everyone, it's been a while since I actually updated the thread with a streak of mine. I've been taking a break away mostly since I had other important projects at the time and it was hard for me to actually dedicate some of my free time to streaking. I've been getting back into it lately and after a couple of heartbreaks at the Battle Dome. I decided to revisit and came back to my old Pike team mostly due to the fact that I felt that 289 wins was not really a good record worthy of it.

I'm proud to report that I have an on-going 308 cleared rooms streak on retail Emerald at Lv.50. It's basically the same team but with some slight changes from my previous streak.

View attachment 316695
Enkidu (Latios) (M) @ Lum Berry
IVs: 4 Atk
EVs: 28 HP / 12 Def / 244 SpA / 6 SpD / 220 Spe
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt

Latios pretty much remains unchanged with the exception that Dragon Claw has been dropped in favor of Ice Beam. The reason why I made this change is simply to have a better match-up against Pokemon like Zapdos and Salamence. With Heracross dropping Rock Slide, I felt that the coverage was much more important since it allows Latios to threaten the Flying types that can OHKO Heracross with their STAB Flying moves.

Latios is pretty much self-explanatory: It's the best sweeper in the game with a great powerful STAB in Psychic, access to Calm Mind to increase its special bulk and power, extraordinary Speed and coverage to threaten most of the Pokemon in Frontier. It pretty much cleans opponents in Singles with a Calm Mind and Levitate combines with Heracross' banded Earthquake to OHKO most opponents making it a deadly combination.

View attachment 316696
Megaera (Heracross) (F) @ Choice Band
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def / 15 SpA / 30 SpD
EVs: 248 Atk / 10 SpD / 252 Spe
Ability: Guts
Jolly Nature
- Facade
- Earthquake
- Brick Break
- Hidden Power Bug

Heracross is the most changed Pokemon on this new version of the team. Thanks to Runeblade14 who suggested running HP Bug on the event that I might reach +841 cleared rooms for Wobbufett spawning in the Wild Rooms, I ended up RNGing on my cartridge a different Heracross; HP Bug is a more accurate alternative to Megahorn. However, I actually really enjoyed using the move: It's strong enough to retain most of the super-effective KOs Megahorn can achieve, it's still strong enough to 2HKO Wild Dusclops (specially if they are unlucky to trigger Guts) and it doesn't misses unless it triggers Brightpowder.

The other change was replacing Rock Slide with Facade and the reason is pretty simple: Game Freak decided that on this generation, spread moves that don't damage your ally will be nerfed to 50% of their original base power. This makes Surf on Gen 3 a 47 base power move and an extremely weak attack to use even with STAB. Now imagine how much damage Rock Slide would be dealing in doubles LOL. Facade on the other hand is a powerful move that has 140 power once Guts is activated and will pretty much obliterate anything that is not named Gengar.

248 Atk EVs gives Heracross the highest Attack stat possible due to IV requirements of HP Bug. Max Speed with a Jolly nature to outspeed as many Pokemon as possible, specially foes like Houndoom and Alakazam. Unlike the previous HP Ghost spread, the 8 leftover EVs will actually increase a stat point which makes HP Bug an even better spread stat-wise.

Guts is the key since it allows Heracross to be burned or poisoned on purpose. While it looks counterproductive at first to poison it and lose health on every 3 steps, the damage Heracross is capable of dishing out makes it very worthwhile. Hell, on a double battle, you can even have Blissey poison it on purpose. It also makes nostalgia rooms free since it increases the odds of the gentlemen healing your party or in case it inflicts the rest of the team with another status, Heracross won't be useless.

View attachment 316698
Garnett (Blissey) (F) @ Leftovers
IVs: 4 Atk
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Def / 84 Spe
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 50
Bold Nature
- Toxic
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss
- Aromatherapy

The cleric support for my team and the reason why Pike "feels easy." Blissey only needs to click Aromatherapy on a Wild Pokemon battle to heal my whole team while it can replenish any lost HP, outside the battlefield, with Soft-boiled. To replenish more HP, simply use Soft-boiled on Milotic who is the wild Pokemon that can't harm Blissey at all regardless of what it does. Toxic is used to avoid making Blissey a sitting duck against Dusclops if you are fighting on the first 280 rooms and Seismic Toss as the main way to cause damage.

84 Spe EVs are needed to outspeed both Haxrein and Lapras who carries OHKO moves allowing her to poison them before they move. Max Defense to tank non-STAB physical hits and the rest goes into HP for a nice perfect Leftovers number.

QuoteResult 1Result 2Tier
For some odd reason, I felt a wave
of nostalgia coming from it...
Status ailmentHeals one or two PokémonGood room to pick if Heracross is either burned or poisoned since it increases the odds of the Gentleman healing your party. I usually avoid it early if my party is at full health. Always pick on the 13th room on every round because lol, your round is basically over at this point.

Usually avoided on the 11th room if you are in a round where you face the Pike Queen as otherwise Blissey struggles using Aromatherapy on the boss fight.
Is it...A Trainer?
I sense the presence of people...
Single battleHeals all PokémonAvoid this room at all costs. Not worth having an NPC battle without healing.

Because the AI has lower IVs in case of a trainer battle, I usually pick this only on the 13th room of each round.
It seems to have the distinct aroma
of Pokémon wafting around it...
Wild PokémonSingle battle, then heal partyPossibly the second best option. Wild Pokemon rooms are excellent opportunities for Blissey to heal the team from unexpected Kirlia/Dusclop events inflicting status ailments while repleneshing the team's HP with Softboiled. You can also lure wild Dusclops / Milotic to status Heracross which allows it to exploit Guts while making Nostalgia rooms free.

I don't recommend over-abusing this choice because the other chance is an NPC battle with healing. Doesn't sounds bad at first but the AI uses Pokemon with higher IVs. Considering that my team doesn't really has a strong defensive synergy, be mindful of this.
I seem to have heard something...
It may have been whispering...
Idle NPCDouble battleBest room to pick. Always pick unless one of Latios or Heracross are down. Thanks to Banded Heracross' Earthquake and Latios' high Speed, this combination can easily pick OHKOs and you can double target a specific threat to avoid mayor damage.

Double battles are mostly quick and you'll rarely lose a Pokemon in the process. If an idle NPC appears instead, it's basically a free pass.
From every path I sense a dreadful
presence...
Battle Pike Queen LucyAs long as the team is in good shape, you will be on a great position since Latios beats both Seviper and Gyarados and Steelix only needs a bit of chip damage to get OHKO'd by Banded Brick Break.

  • :granbull: :ursaring: Banded Normal types are a nightmare for this team since I got no resistances or immunities to their moves. The worst part is that Granbull gets a guaranteed kill depending on what it chooses since it could pick either Shadow Ball or Mega Kick with the latter breaking Blissey's eggs into smithereens.
  • :metagross: It's a troublesome Pokemon on Singles since I got no Steel type resist on the team either. Usually Blissey is sacked to land the OHKO with Earthquake. Extremely bad news if it leads on a non-healing battle. On Doubles, it's not so threatening since you can double target it. (Guts boosted Earthquake will OHKO any set)
  • :aggron: Deserves a special mention since it destroyed my last two attempts. Aggron 1 has Quick Claw and access to Aerial Ace to end Heracross and neither Blissey or Latios appreciate taking Iron Tail. No Iron Tail resistant switch-in makes this mon extremely painful unless it misses.
  • :aerodactyl: Dangerous if Set 2 gets an Ancient Power boost, but relatively harmless if it's locked on anything else.
  • :golem: + :quagsire: or :metagross: + :gengar: Explosion with Damp / Ghost type is a pretty dangerous combination and with the lack of Protect, it can be deadly if unchecked. To make matters worse, all Golem needs is a Quick Claw activation to completely fuck you over.
Pretty sure they are out there more threats but will update this section as I find them


IMG_20210217_091031.jpg
Explosion + Damp only prevents Explosion from working!
 
Which move is better for the Lati twins: Ice Beam or Dragon Claw? It seems like Calm Mind, Psychic, and Thunderbolt are pretty much standard, but I'm wondering which of the two is better as the 4th move.

Off the top of my head, the advantages to Ice Beam are being able to hit ground types like Rhydon super effectively, being able to guarantee OHKO bulky Salamence/Dragonite sets, and hitting Zapdos. And Dragon Claw would be better versus Psychic types like Gardevoir or Espeon and maybe also against Dark types.

If anyone has an opinion about which move is better overall, I'd be interested to hear it.
 
Lati-Sandwich
latios lil.png
snorlax lil.png
latias lil.png

Hello all, first time poster but long time reader. Always been a huge fan of the frontier and have played on my gen 3 GBA cartridges since I was a kid. Battle Tower has always been my favourite, but I was inspired by other posts on teams for the Battle Arena. I saw this same team under two different posts, one without some moveset edits, so credit where credit is due. Really great team and works basically uniquely for Arena.

I'm reporting a 313 Streak in the Battle Arena Emerald at lvl. 100 with the wonderful lati-sandwich team.

latios gif.gif

Latios:
(M) @ Cheri Berry
IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/31
EVs: 252 SpA / 78 SpD / 180 Spe
Ability: Levitate
Lvl: 100
Modest nature
-Psychic
-Ice beam
-Thunderbolt
-Memento

Latios is the best possible lead for the Arena without a doubt. The plan with Latios is simple: just sweep. 9 times out of 10 Latios will be able to tear through the opposing team by one hit KOing or two hit KOing most of the arena's threats, while surviving most things that aren't super-effective (and some things that are). Psychic, Ice beam, and Thunderbolt simply supply the best coverage. Testing with things like HP fire, Dragon claw, and HP grass it becomes clear that these three moves can simply do the same things as any other set, in two hitting most things. As said above, if this can sweep there is no reason to stop that by hitting memento. That being said anything that walls latios or will likely OHKO it memento is a fantastic move. There is very little that can take a chunk out of second mon Snorlax at -2, nonetheless stop it from setting up a curse and knocking it out in two hits subsequently.

180 speed is all you need to beat out the base 100 speed tiers that are present in arena, and anything that is faster is OHKO'd with very few exceptions. Only thing worth looking out for is some Electrodes that carry Mirror coat, but they can be easily neutralized by just Thunderbolting first then hitting Psychic. Rest of the EVs go into SpD to just give it a little more survivability to finish off things that take three hits and tank an Ice beam. It's best in SpD vs. HP because there are no physical threats to Latios that won't OHKO it anyways, better to just take less from super-effective special attacks.

The biggest change that's present here is the use of Cheri Berry over what is commonly brightpowder, twistedspoon, or similar. There are a LOT of twave, body slam or otherwise paralysis users in the Arena, ALOT. The Cheri Berry forces them all to hit twave twice and practically guarantee a loss in judging. This is particularly useful against several electric types or things like Registeel which Latios would otherwise lose to or take more than one hit to kill. Even if I wasn't running Lum Berry elsewhere on the team I would still recommend running Cheri, sleeper item pick for sure.

Latios was obtained with the Battle Tower trick in Ruby using the roamer to get perfect IV's.

snorlax gif.gif

Snorlax:
(M) @ Leftovers
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Ability: Thick Fat
Lvl: 100
Adamant nature
-Curse
-Shadow ball
-Earthquake
-Selfdestruct

I wouldn't call Snorlax the star of the team but it does seem to put in the most work. This is pretty standard stuff based on the leading Latios set. Again, 9 times out of 10 Latios will get enough work done for easy cleanup for Snorlax, and if it doesn't, Snorlax comes in against a -2 pokemon that will inevitably die to unboosted or 1 curse Lax.

EV's and nature are pretty standard, special mons, especially at -2 don't stand a chance at breaking through Lax. I've tested with some defensive or special defensive investments, but Lax shines with the big HP stat and needs all the attack to get some KOs due to not running a normal STAB. The standout part of this set is the crazy strong Selfdestruct.

Selfdestruct on Snorlax is the strongest unboosted attack in the game. It is seriously unreal how powerful it is, Slaking Hyper beam can't even compare. I won't post calcs here but I recommend just checking them out and seeing the damage it can do to things like Skarm, Wobbuffet, Etc. It makes explosion on things like Metagross and Gengar look pathetic. This synergizes so beautifully with the Latios lead that can kill most teams on its own. Probably around 250+ of the games in this streak are Latios sweeping into Snorlax blowing up. Selfdestruct is a XD move tutor move that Snorlax can learn. Lots of people don't know this because most PKMN resources don't list Lax as able to learn it, but it can and it's amazing.

Snorlax should avoid setting up unless it is out against the opponent's lead or a second mon that makes it free. Examples being Wobbuffet, Counter Swampert, and CurseLax. You're always better off just trying to kill whatever is out because the incredible Selfdestruct will annihilate the 3rd 95% of the time - and if it doesn't the last mon is specifically designed to always beat weakened PKMN.

It's also worth noting that while I used a male snorlax in my streak, female Snorlax avoids more attract mons than the male one does, hence making it the better option if possible, but to RNG one that has the right nature, IVs, ability, and gender can get old (assuming you want to do it all on cartridge).

Snorlax was obtained using egg IV RNG in Emerald with a 3 IV ditto and I think 3 different Snorlax.

latias gif.gif

Latias:
(F) @ Lum Berry
IVs: 31/6/31/30/31/30
EVs: 128 HP / 202 SpA / 180 Spe
Ability: Levitate
Lvl: 100
Modest nature
-Psychic
-Ice beam
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power Fire

To complete the sandwich is Latias on the other end. Latias is a weird one, and only really barely outperformed other PKMN that I tested such as Suicune, Slaking, Tauros, Etc. At the end of the day Latias does a very similar job that Latios does, just instead of sweeping it is on cleanup duty. Whatever Latios and Lax can't take out falls on Latias to finish off. The thing about Latias is simple, but important. YOU NEVER WANT TO BRING OUT LATIAS. Latias is not made on this team to sweep or beat several mons. It can and will do that if it has to, but should be avoided at all costs. If you come down to Latias on this team, especially out against the second opponent mon, you should be very afraid of what comes after, it lacks the firepower and survivability to either win or get to judging. Generally though, this is designed to take out stuff at low health or nab quick OHKOs with super-effective attacks, hence moves like HP Fire.

Moveset is very obvious, best coverage possible. EVs are to maximize bulk while still getting important OHKOs on things like heracross, that can easily take you out. The HP Fire on Latias is important beyond the expected Forretress and Scizor, it is absolutely necessary for taking out Mirror coat users without getting blasted by PKMN such as Swampert, Tentacruel Milotic, and Blastoise. Dive is also a move I considered on this set, to try and kind of cheat your way to win judging, but things like Gold Greta's Shedinja are just too inconsistent. The IVs on this set are basically the best I could get while still getting 70 BP HP Fire on Latias.

Latias was obtained in Emerald on Southern Island using the Battle Record frame skip, Method 1 RNG abuse on stationary and the Pomeg Glitch to get the Eon Ticket.

little pinsir.png

Pinsir(2) Can easily sweep the team if you're careless. This is the Flail Endure Salac SD pinsir set, basically always memento on this because Latios will let it set up and sweep, being unable to get the kill before it hits SD and Endure to outspeed your team.
little jynx.png

Jynx being an ice type is annoying, but sleep mons can make snorlax lose judging easily, this PKMN is only threat if it kills or comes out after Latios. Jynx(1) is the worst because Ice beam + Lovely kiss can beat both Latis and Lax.
little gardevoir.png

Gardevoir(3/4) Both carry ice punch but no set that beats Latios beats Lax, still worth keeping an eye out for. Especially with Destiny bond around.
armaldo.png
little ursaring.png
little granbull.png
little slaking.png

Choice band users are VERY annoying for this team, generally you just want to memento on these guys to try and sweep with Lax. Granbull(4), Ursaring(2/4), Armaldo(4), Slaking(3) are the big bad boys. Generally I only really saw and worried about them on lead, but constant threats.
little dusclops.png

Dusclops(4) is Adamant with both shadow ball and pain split making it a nuissance for Latios and then Snorlax. You can risk losing judging if you're not careful.
little porygon2.png

This one is a funny one. Porygon2(4) has trace and Ice beam, so if they come out second against Latios and get levitate while revenge killing with Ice beam, they are untouchable to Snorlax, forcing him to blow up and rely on Latias, which is always undesirable. On lead, Psychic kills before it kills you, so only as a second or third mon is it annoying.
little scizor.png

Scizor(4) is ALWAYS an instant memento. it is 252 HP 252 SpD and Latios will always let it set up and get swept by it. Even if it doesn't get an Agility or omniboost by the time Latias comes out, HP Fire doesn't take out the insane Scizor bulk. Scizor(2) looks threatening but without the HP and SpD investments Latios should win fairly easily.
little umbreon.png

All Umbreon sets can hax you in some capacity, I frequently am forced into just blowing Lax up on them to guarantee I don't get haxed by them, hoping to win with Latias which is always a gamble. Confuse ray and Double team are brutal. It's also worth noting that this team ALWAYS beats Gold Greta. (Turn 1 Memento, turn 2 Selfdestruct, turn 3/4 ohko with two Psychics).
little medicham.png

HJK medicham can mess you up if it comes in on Lax with something that kills Latias in the back. Medicham(1/2) are usually fine but worth looking out for.
little blastoice.png
little swampert.png
little tentacruel.png
little milotic.png

These are the Mirror coat users in Arena that you need to watch out for. Swampert(2/4), Tentacruel(3/4), Milotic(1/2/4), and Blastoise(2/4) all pack Mirror coat. For Latios these guys aren't a big deal, but for Latias you have to be very very careful. Latias should always HP Fire, Ice beam, or Psychic these mons first to then kill with Thunderbolt or else it's game over. These guys are the ultimate streak killers when they come out against Latias.

These guys aren't really a big deal, but look like threats at first glance. If you know what to do, you beat them 100% of the time.

little wobbuffet.png

Wobbuffet is something that you just damage with Latios as much as you can to then just Curse 3 times with Lax, you'll always win judging. A good example of a second mon that Lax likes to Curse on.
little swampert.png
little snorlax.png

Swampert(1/2/3) all bring counter, if Latios is dead or dies to an Ice beam, just Curse up on these guys because you'll win judging and be +2 or +3 on the second or third mon, in which case Selfdestruct kills +Def Aggrons. This is the same deal for Snorlax(2/3/7) who will curse 3 times and Snorlax(5/6) who will spam counter.
little registeel.png

Registeel looks spooky when it's in lead slot, Latios being unable to kill in 3 turns, but with Cheri Berry Latios will always win judging as it will just Thunderwave you twice.
little chansey.png
little blissey.png

Chansey and Bissey look really scary with this team, especially without a non-Selfdestruct normal STAB on Snorlax, but you will almost always win if you just spam Psychic, because they have tendencies to spam non attacking moves and lose the judging. Blissey(4) is the only remotely threatening one with Calm mind and Ice beam, but Lax always beats it. This is just a long way of saying DON'T MEMENTO ON CHANSEY OR BLISSEY. I lost too many streaks being afraid of these guys by Mementoing with Latios to be Double teamed on against Lax.

This loss is actually less unlucky then you'd think, and more matchup based. But then again that is the nature of Arena, no switching all matchup.

The Culprit: Expert Emma
experft emma.png

Her dastardly team:
little regirock.png

This dude comes out on opening, something that is usually never an issue. Easy 2 or 3HKO with Psychic. Not this time though, it's Regirock(2), that means adamant quick claw Explosion - on turn 1. Latios is out of the picture.
little umbreon.png

This is one of the worst possible pokemon that could come out next. Umbreon is very hard for Lax to beat without blowing up. First turn Confuse ray - hit myself, this is Umbreon(1/4), turn 2 double team, I hit EQ, turn 3 - Selfdestruct MISS. Latias comes out and hits 3 Thunderbolts while breaking through confusion, and taking 2 FEINT ATTACKS LEAVING LATIAS AT AROUND 50%. there is still hope.
little milotic.png

This is not a great last mon to see but there is still hope. 3/4 sets run mirror coat. I go for Ice beam - standard procedure, weaken without dying to mirror coat. First turn I get an Ice beam CRIT and die to Mirror Coat. Reverse hax and the streak is dead.

This felt Kinda unavoidable, I probably would've had a better chance if I had tried to blow up Lax on Umbreon from the beginning instead of trying to weaken it, but the way Latias died to Milotic was just a little silly, but at the same time it's unrealistic for Latias to beat milotic unweakened without some luck. This streak was the longest by over 100 wins, several others reaching just under 200.

Thats Pretty much it, very strong team, but as demonstrated in my loss, more than 1 mon that's on the threatlist can spell bad news in Arena, not being able to switch and play around threats is what makes this so challenging, and what makes the threatlist so long. As I said above I tried other stuff out in the Latias slot, namely Suicune, Tauros, and Slaking, but locking into Choice Band against the second mon is just a little too risky and requires alot of knowledge about what trainers carry what mons, and Suicune can't really shine without some real setup behind it, all it takes is a crit from a super-effective attack that you can't switch out to avoid to end the streak. A pokemon that can do a good amount of damage, has good coverage, and can eat some hits is what is needed in the back of a team like this, and nobody really does that like Latias does. Starmie is another PKMN that has potential in this slot, but it is simply too frail and works better in a sweeping position like Latios, whereas nothing in gen 3 is like Latios.

Clearly Golden Blissey hasn't been active in awhile, so I'm not sure what the current top streak is in Arena, I'd really appreciate it if someone could let me know so I can get some motivation to beat another person's record. The competitive nature of the frontier has always been my favourite, trying to get high streaks and beat others'.
 
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Which move is better for the Lati twins: Ice Beam or Dragon Claw? It seems like Calm Mind, Psychic, and Thunderbolt are pretty much standard, but I'm wondering which of the two is better as the 4th move.

Off the top of my head, the advantages to Ice Beam are being able to hit ground types like Rhydon super effectively, being able to guarantee OHKO bulky Salamence/Dragonite sets, and hitting Zapdos. And Dragon Claw would be better versus Psychic types like Gardevoir or Espeon and maybe also against Dark types.

If anyone has an opinion about which move is better overall, I'd be interested to hear it.

Dragon Claw is always the better move since it's STAB and it gets the ability to 2HKO Houndoom, beat CM Espeon and Gardevoir 1-v-1, and let's you beat the opposing Lati@s since you can survive a hit when setting up a CM and +1 Dragon Claw always OHKOs.

What Ice Beam gets is being able to 2HKO Zapdos and OHKO Salamence 4, but it isn't really worth sacrificing STAB coverage and it's a move that you should only consider as a valid alternative only if your team has a team member that will beat Psychic types no matter what (like Blissey as an example).
 
Dragon Claw is always the better move since it's STAB and it gets the ability to 2HKO Houndoom, beat CM Espeon and Gardevoir 1-v-1, and let's you beat the opposing Lati@s since you can survive a hit when setting up a CM and +1 Dragon Claw always OHKOs.

What Ice Beam gets is being able to 2HKO Zapdos and OHKO Salamence 4, but it isn't really worth sacrificing STAB coverage and it's a move that you should only consider as a valid alternative only if your team has a team member that will beat Psychic types no matter what (like Blissey as an example).

This is a very good point. I prefer Ice beam on mine, mostly because I have a hard special wall (Blissey or Umbreon who I think is the 2nd best special wall in the game imo). I prefer the ability to ohko dragon dance Salamence/ Zapdos because I find these threats to be more dangerous to my team. Take your team composition into consideration Purple Kecleon.
 
Dragon Claw is always the better move since it's STAB and it gets the ability to 2HKO Houndoom, beat CM Espeon and Gardevoir 1-v-1, and let's you beat the opposing Lati@s since you can survive a hit when setting up a CM and +1 Dragon Claw always OHKOs.

What Ice Beam gets is being able to 2HKO Zapdos and OHKO Salamence 4, but it isn't really worth sacrificing STAB coverage and it's a move that you should only consider as a valid alternative only if your team has a team member that will beat Psychic types no matter what (like Blissey as an example).

Thanks for the insight, I think that makes a lot of sense. I just noticed that your profile has replaced Golden Blissey on the front page. Are you planning on taking over the record updates?

Lati-Sandwich
:rs/latios: :rs/snorlax: :rs/latias:
Hello all, first time poster but long time reader. Always been a huge fan of the frontier and have played on my gen 3 GBA cartridges since I was a kid. Battle Tower has always been my favourite, but I was inspired by other posts on teams for the Battle Arena. I saw this same team under two different posts, one without some moveset edits, so credit where credit is due. Really great team and works basically uniquely for Arena.

Nice! Glad to see someone using the Lati Sandwich team. That was actually what I was planning on doing next for the Battle Frontier but looks like you beat me to it. 313 wins is an insane record, though I feel like you would need a lot of luck to get that far in this facility no matter what team you are using.

Running Curse without Return on Snorlax seems counterintuitive to me so I'm surprised it worked out well for you. I was debating whether to run Selfdestruct or Curse, but never considered dropping Return. Return and +1 Earthquake are the roughly the same power, so your Snorlax would not be any stronger than a regular Snorlax with only 1 boost.

Have you tested Calm Mind on Latios? Memento seems like a cool idea, but I'm curious if you have any experience with how the 2 moves compare against each other.

Btw, here are 2 Youtube videos with the Lati sandwich team being used, in case you haven't seen them before.
Pokemon Emerald: Arena Tycoon Swept by Latios (112 Win Streak)
Battle Arena - Gold Battle Fatum vs. Greta
 
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Nice! Glad to see someone using the Lati Sandwich team. That was actually what I was planning on doing next for the Battle Frontier but looks like you beat me to it. 313 wins is an insane record, though I feel like you would need a lot of luck to get that far in this facility no matter what team you are using.

Running Curse without Return on Snorlax seems counterintuitive to me so I'm surprised it worked out well for you. I was debating whether to run Selfdestruct or Curse, but never considered dropping Return. Return and +1 Earthquake are the roughly the same power, so your Snorlax would not be any stronger than a regular Snorlax with only 1 boost.

Have you tested Calm Mind on Latios? Memento seems like a cool idea, but I'm curious if you have any experience with how the 2 moves compare against each other.

Btw, here are 2 Youtube videos with the Lati sandwich team being used, in case you haven't seen them before.
Pokemon Emerald: Arena Tycoon Swept by Latios (112 Win Streak)
Battle Arena - Gold Battle Fatum vs. Greta

latios gif.gif
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latias gif.png
Cheers! Streak-wise I don't really think it has as much to do with luck or hax as much as it does just not seeing certain matchups. This team and the Arena in general isn't really designed in such a way that bad luck is what beats you. Most of my streaks reach the 190-210 range with this one being a standout. All you really have to be looking out for is more than one PKMN on the threatlist coming at you. It's not like tower where a crit on setup is what tears your team apart.

Snorlax and Latios-wise...

Snorlax without normal stab is without a doubt a bit of a deficit that this team faces
. And I did do testing with Return over Earthquake. Overall Selfdestruct is just so damn dominant, being able to OHKO way too much of the Frontier's pokemon, IMO it is irreplaceable on this team. Keeping in mind that I'll be dropping Return for the boom, Earthquake and Shadow ball severely lack the firepower to take out most pokemon unboosted. Curse is a necessity on Snorlax. Even with return it is hardpressed to pick up KOs without blowing up. And Curse synergizes beautifully with Memento on Latios. Return over Earthquake can be considered but alot of things that might force Snorlax out after Latios are things like electric types or steel types, the latter especially are impossible to deal with without quake. In my experience EQ just offers the applicable coverage than Return or another normal STAB does, and either way, 9/10 battles have Latios getting 2 or 3 kills with Lax blowing up on the third. Curse is the best option, as long as you have an understanding that you'll only really want to use it against PKMN that make it free or that beat out lead Latios, which are few and far in between and listed in the threatlist. One bad example being Jynx(1) who actually can beat Snorlax given some bad sleep luck.

Latios-wise - calm mind just doesn't shine in Arena in my experience. It's almost never worth it to set up because Latios just beats SO much. In other facilities Latios might face struggles in bulky mons that it can't kill quickly, here in the Arena it will pick up a 3HKO on 95% of mons and win judging against specially bulky walls. Lati kills or handicaps every single PKMN you can face, no exceptions. Through either damage or Memento Lax and Latias can always finish. If you really wanted to run CM I'd suggest dropping curse for Return on Lax. But really if you run setup you should change the entire dynamic of the team, the Lati-Sandwich works around being offensive with essentially two amazing cleanup PKMN in the back. I think you'd be better off running Latias second with another CM set and something banded or DD based like Gyarados or TTar in the back. Just a different type of team.
 
For those who might have paid attention to the thread recently, you might have noticed a few changes and some small updates. As you should know, the leaderboard has not been updated over months and due to the continuous streaks being posted, I asked for the ownership of this thread to keep the records on each facility being updated. With that being said, first and most importantly, I would like to give my thanks to Golden Blissey for being the person who pretty much set up the initiative to have an active leader-board for Gen 3 just like the current Maison, Tree and Tower threads. He did a wonderful job on keeping the thread updated with all these streaks that have been added over the years and I never expected the interest in Gen 3 to explode the way it did. Thank you once again Golden Blissey and we all hope everything is fine from your end if you see this message!

Considering that even though we've been over a year with a new generation, there is still a very strong interest in Generation 3 due to nostalgic reasons and I'm really happy to see many people give it a try and use this thread as an important resource to finally being able to beat the facilities we were unable to beat back when we were 12 years old.

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Just figured I'd post a small update on my Pike team. We are currently sitting on 364 wins and still going!

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Hello all, first time poster but long time reader. Always been a huge fan of the frontier and have played on my gen 3 GBA cartridges since I was a kid. Battle Tower has always been my favourite, but I was inspired by other posts on teams for the Battle Arena. I saw this same team under two different posts, one without some moveset edits, so credit where credit is due. Really great team and works basically uniquely for Arena.

I'm reporting a 313 Streak in the Battle Arena on retail Emerald at lvl. 100 with the wonderful lati-sandwich team.

View attachment 317378
Latios:
(M) @ Cheri Berry
IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/31
EVs: 252 SpA / 78 SpD / 180 Spe
Ability: Levitate
Lvl: 100
Modest nature
-Psychic
-Ice beam
-Thunderbolt
-Memento

Latios is the best possible lead for the Arena without a doubt. The plan with Latios is simple: just sweep. 9 times out of 10 Latios will be able to tear through the opposing team by one hit KOing or two hit KOing most of the arena's threats, while surviving most things that aren't super-effective (and some things that are). Psychic, Ice beam, and Thunderbolt simply supply the best coverage. Testing with things like HP fire, Dragon claw, and HP grass it becomes clear that these three moves can simply do the same things as any other set, in two hitting most things. As said above, if this can sweep there is no reason to stop that by hitting memento. That being said anything that walls latios or will likely OHKO it memento is a fantastic move. There is very little that can take a chunk out of second mon Snorlax at -2, nonetheless stop it from setting up a curse and knocking it out in two hits subsequently.

180 speed is all you need to beat out the base 100 speed tiers that are present in arena, and anything that is faster is OHKO'd with very few exceptions. Only thing worth looking out for is some Electrodes that carry Mirror coat, but they can be easily neutralized by just Thunderbolting first then hitting Psychic. Rest of the EVs go into SpD to just give it a little more survivability to finish off things that take three hits and tank an Ice beam. It's best in SpD vs. HP because there are no physical threats to Latios that won't OHKO it anyways, better to just take less from super-effective special attacks.

The biggest change that's present here is the use of Cheri Berry over what is commonly brightpowder, twistedspoon, or similar. There are a LOT of twave, body slam or otherwise paralysis users in the Arena, ALOT. The Cheri Berry forces them all to hit twave twice and practically guarantee a loss in judging. This is particularly useful against several electric types or things like Registeel which Latios would otherwise lose to or take more than one hit to kill. Even if I wasn't running Lum Berry elsewhere on the team I would still recommend running Cheri, sleeper item pick for sure.

Latios was obtained with the Battle Tower trick in a Ruby cartridge using the roamer to get perfect IV's.

View attachment 317388
Snorlax:
(M) @ Leftovers
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Ability: Thick Fat
Lvl: 100
Adamant nature
-Curse
-Shadow ball
-Earthquake
-Selfdestruct

I wouldn't call Snorlax the star of the team but it does seem to put in the most work. This is pretty standard stuff based on the leading Latios set. Again, 9 times out of 10 Latios will get enough work done for easy cleanup for Snorlax, and if it doesn't, Snorlax comes in against a -2 pokemon that will inevitably die to unboosted or 1 curse Lax.

EV's and nature are pretty standard, special mons, especially at -2 don't stand a chance at breaking through Lax. I've tested with some defensive or special defensive investments, but Lax shines with the big HP stat and needs all the attack to get some KOs due to not running a normal STAB. The standout part of this set is the crazy strong Selfdestruct.

Selfdestruct on Snorlax is the strongest unboosted attack in the game. It is seriously unreal how powerful it is, Slaking Hyper beam can't even compare. I won't post calcs here but I recommend just checking them out and seeing the damage it can do to things like Skarm, Wobbuffet, Etc. It makes explosion on things like Metagross and Gengar look pathetic. This synergizes so beautifully with the Latios lead that can kill most teams on its own. Probably around 250+ of the games in this streak are Latios sweeping into Snorlax blowing up. Selfdestruct is a XD move tutor move that Snorlax can learn. Lots of people don't know this because most PKMN resources don't list Lax as able to learn it, but it can and it's amazing.

Snorlax should avoid setting up unless it is out against the opponent's lead or a second mon that makes it free. Examples being Wobbuffet, Counter Swampert, and CurseLax. You're always better off just trying to kill whatever is out because the incredible Selfdestruct will annihilate the 3rd 95% of the time - and if it doesn't the last mon is specifically designed to always beat weakened PKMN.

It's also worth noting that while I used a male snorlax in my streak, female Snorlax avoids more attract mons than the male one does, hence making it the better option if possible, but to RNG one that has the right nature, IVs, ability, and gender can get old (assuming you want to do it all on cartridge).

Snorlax was obtained using egg IV RNG on an Emerald cartridge with a 3 IV ditto and I think 3 different Snorlax.

View attachment 317392
Latias:
(F) @ Lum Berry
IVs: 31/6/31/30/31/30
EVs: 128 HP / 202 SpA / 180 Spe
Ability: Levitate
Lvl: 100
Modest nature
-Psychic
-Ice beam
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power Fire

To complete the sandwich is Latias on the other end. Latias is a weird one, and only really barely outperformed other PKMN that I tested such as Suicune, Slaking, Tauros, Etc. At the end of the day Latias does a very similar job that Latios does, just instead of sweeping it is on cleanup duty. Whatever Latios and Lax can't take out falls on Latias to finish off. The thing about Latias is simple, but important. YOU NEVER WANT TO BRING OUT LATIAS. Latias is not made on this team to sweep or beat several mons. It can and will do that if it has to, but should be avoided at all costs. If you come down to Latias on this team, especially out against the second opponent mon, you should be very afraid of what comes after, it lacks the firepower and survivability to either win or get to judging. Generally though, this is designed to take out stuff at low health or nab quick OHKOs with super-effective attacks, hence moves like HP Fire.

Moveset is very obvious, best coverage possible. EVs are to maximize bulk while still getting important OHKOs on things like heracross, that can easily take you out. The HP Fire on Latias is important beyond the expected Forretress and Scizor, it is absolutely necessary for taking out Mirror coat users without getting blasted by PKMN such as Swampert, Tentacruel Milotic, and Blastoise. Dive is also a move I considered on this set, to try and kind of cheat your way to win judging, but things like Gold Greta's Shedinja are just too inconsistent. The IVs on this set are basically the best I could get while still getting 70 BP HP Fire on Latias.

Latias was obtained in an Emerald cartridge on Southern Island using the Battle Record frame skip, Method 1 RNG abuse on stationary and the Pomeg Glitch to get the Eon Ticket.

View attachment 317402
Pinsir(2) Can easily sweep the team if you're careless. This is the Flail Endure Salac SD pinsir set, basically always memento on this because Latios will let it set up and sweep, being unable to get the kill before it hits SD and Endure to outspeed your team.
View attachment 317403
Jynx being an ice type is annoying, but sleep mons can make snorlax lose judging easily, this PKMN is only threat if it kills or comes out after Latios. Jynx(1) is the worst because Ice beam + Lovely kiss can beat both Latis and Lax.
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Gardevoir(3/4) Both carry ice punch but no set that beats Latios beats Lax, still worth keeping an eye out for. Especially with Destiny bond around.
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Choice band users are VERY annoying for this team, generally you just want to memento on these guys to try and sweep with Lax. Granbull(4), Ursaring(2/4), Armaldo(4), Slaking(3) are the big bad boys. Generally I only really saw and worried about them on lead, but constant threats.
View attachment 317409
Dusclops(4) is Adamant with both shadow ball and pain split making it a nuissance for Latios and then Snorlax. You can risk losing judging if you're not careful.
View attachment 317410
This one is a funny one. Porygon2(4) has trace and Ice beam, so if they come out second against Latios and get levitate while revenge killing with Ice beam, they are untouchable to Snorlax, forcing him to blow up and rely on Latias, which is always undesirable. On lead, Psychic kills before it kills you, so only as a second or third mon is it annoying.
View attachment 317411
Scizor(4) is ALWAYS an instant memento. it is 252 HP 252 SpD and Latios will always let it set up and get swept by it. Even if it doesn't get an Agility or omniboost by the time Latias comes out, HP Fire doesn't take out the insane Scizor bulk. Scizor(2) looks threatening but without the HP and SpD investments Latios should win fairly easily.
View attachment 317412
All Umbreon sets can hax you in some capacity, I frequently am forced into just blowing Lax up on them to guarantee I don't get haxed by them, hoping to win with Latias which is always a gamble. Confuse ray and Double team are brutal. It's also worth noting that this team ALWAYS beats Gold Greta. (Turn 1 Memento, turn 2 Selfdestruct, turn 3/4 ohko with two Psychics).
View attachment 317413
HJK medicham can mess you up if it comes in on Lax with something that kills Latias in the back. Medicham(1/2) are usually fine but worth looking out for.
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These are the Mirror coat users in Arena that you need to watch out for. Swampert(2/4), Tentacruel(3/4), Milotic(1/2/4), and Blastoise(2/4) all pack Mirror coat. For Latios these guys aren't a big deal, but for Latias you have to be very very careful. Latias should always HP Fire, Ice beam, or Psychic these mons first to then kill with Thunderbolt or else it's game over. These guys are the ultimate streak killers when they come out against Latias.

These guys aren't really a big deal, but look like threats at first glance. If you know what to do, you beat them 100% of the time.

View attachment 317587
Wobbuffet is something that you just damage with Latios as much as you can to then just Curse 3 times with Lax, you'll always win judging. A good example of a second mon that Lax likes to Curse on.
View attachment 317421View attachment 317446
Swampert(1/2/3) all bring counter, if Latios is dead or dies to an Ice beam, just Curse up on these guys because you'll win judging and be +2 or +3 on the second or third mon, in which case Selfdestruct kills +Def Aggrons. This is the same deal for Snorlax(2/3/7) who will curse 3 times and Snorlax(5/6) who will spam counter.
View attachment 317423
Registeel looks spooky when it's in lead slot, Latios being unable to kill in 3 turns, but with Cheri Berry Latios will always win judging as it will just Thunderwave you twice.
View attachment 317425View attachment 317426
Chansey and Bissey look really scary with this team, especially without a non-Selfdestruct normal STAB on Snorlax, but you will almost always win if you just spam Psychic, because they have tendencies to spam non attacking moves and lose the judging. Blissey(4) is the only remotely threatening one with Calm mind and Ice beam, but Lax always beats it. This is just a long way of saying DON'T MEMENTO ON CHANSEY OR BLISSEY. I lost too many streaks being afraid of these guys by Mementoing with Latios to be Double teamed on against Lax.

This loss is actually less unlucky then you'd think, and more matchup based. But then again that is the nature of Arena, no switching all matchup.

The Culprit: Expert Emma
View attachment 317450
Her dastardly team:
View attachment 317431
This dude comes out on opening, something that is usually never an issue. Easy 2 or 3HKO with Psychic. Not this time though, it's Regirock(2), that means adamant quick claw Explosion - on turn 1. Latios is out of the picture.
View attachment 317432
This is one of the worst possible pokemon that could come out next. Umbreon is very hard for Lax to beat without blowing up. First turn Confuse ray - hit myself, this is Umbreon(1/4), turn 2 double team, I hit EQ, turn 3 - Selfdestruct MISS. Latias comes out and hits 3 Thunderbolts while breaking through confusion, and taking 2 FEINT ATTACKS LEAVING LATIAS AT AROUND 50%. there is still hope.
View attachment 317435
This is not a great last mon to see but there is still hope. 3/4 sets run mirror coat. I go for Ice beam - standard procedure, weaken without dying to mirror coat. First turn I get an Ice beam CRIT and die to Mirror Coat. Reverse hax and the streak is dead.

This felt Kinda unavoidable, I probably would've had a better chance if I had tried to blow up Lax on Umbreon from the beginning instead of trying to weaken it, but the way Latias died to Milotic was just a little silly, but at the same time it's unrealistic for Latias to beat milotic unweakened without some luck. This streak was the longest by over 100 wins, several others reaching just under 200.

Thats Pretty much it, very strong team, but as demonstrated in my loss, more than 1 mon that's on the threatlist can spell bad news in Arena, not being able to switch and play around threats is what makes this so challenging, and what makes the threatlist so long. As I said above I tried other stuff out in the Latias slot, namely Suicune, Tauros, and Slaking, but locking into Choice Band against the second mon is just a little too risky and requires alot of knowledge about what trainers carry what mons, and Suicune can't really shine without some real setup behind it, all it takes is a crit from a super-effective attack that you can't switch out to avoid to end the streak. A pokemon that can do a good amount of damage, has good coverage, and can eat some hits is what is needed in the back of a team like this, and nobody really does that like Latias does. Starmie is another PKMN that has potential in this slot, but it is simply too frail and works better in a sweeping position like Latios, whereas nothing in gen 3 is like Latios.

Clearly Golden Blissey hasn't been active in awhile, so I'm not sure what the current top streak is in Arena, I'd really appreciate it if someone could let me know so I can get some motivation to beat another person's record. The competitive nature of the frontier has always been my favourite, trying to get high streaks and beat others'.
That's an insane streak, congrats. Non-STAB Snorlax is really underrated, and I think Arena might be the best place to use it. Have you read my post about Latias into BellyLax by any chance? Using Curse is probably the way after all. Your team is definitely better against OHKO users as well; I think the most I ever got was around 70/80.
 
That's an insane streak, congrats. Non-STAB Snorlax is really underrated, and I think Arena might be the best place to use it. Have you read my post about Latias into BellyLax by any chance? Using Curse is probably the way after all. Your team is definitely better against OHKO users as well; I think the most I ever got was around 70/80.

You should give the team a try, even in an emulator it's very effective and I never had a streak that died before 100. I agree the Snorlax set is what lets this team shine in the Arena, being a facility where matchup is key and has much less to do with clever team composition and different counters for different things. Like I said in one of my previous replies, I think a team like yours and others with setup bases to them are great, but just don't really shine in the Arena. It being a 3 turn based game mode setting up just seems a little backwards, and things like crits or low percent move effects become far more detrimental than for example in battle tower. I.E. Snorlax would never be bothered by Jynx(1) in the tower, no matter how much sleep and how many Ice beams it got off, but in Arena that Jynx is actually extremely threatning because you'll just lose judging.

And either way any team that I can use Selfdestruct Lax is one that I'll use until I die. It is so strong and so much fun to use.

I also like the use of Banded Salamence in the back, I did lots of testing with stuff like that before I settled into Latias. Things like Tauros, Slaking, Flygon, Etc. At the end of the day it is a) too much work to check what trainers have what PKMN to decide what move to lock into and b) just too risky when put in a bad situation by threats to the first two like the aforementioned Jynx(1). If Latios and Snorlax are dead I feel much safer with Latias out than a band user.
 
I do have some questions about this team. I read the whole write up and I am even more confused by some choices here. The Lati-Sandwich team is not a new concept in here and I'm pretty sure I saw a variant that used Fly Latios to take advantage of the judging points. While it's true that on three turns, battles go swiftly and it eliminates defensive threats like Blissey and Umbreon, there are still some gaps that I would like to understand here.

Hello all, first time poster but long time reader. Always been a huge fan of the frontier and have played on my gen 3 GBA cartridges since I was a kid. Battle Tower has always been my favourite, but I was inspired by other posts on teams for the Battle Arena. I saw this same team under two different posts, one without some moveset edits, so credit where credit is due. Really great team and works basically uniquely for Arena.

I'm reporting a 313 Streak in the Battle Arena on retail Emerald at lvl. 100 with the wonderful lati-sandwich team.

View attachment 317378
Latios:
(M) @ Cheri Berry
IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/31
EVs: 252 SpA / 78 SpD / 180 Spe
Ability: Levitate
Lvl: 100
Modest nature
-Psychic
-Ice beam
-Thunderbolt
-Memento

Latios is the best possible lead for the Arena without a doubt. The plan with Latios is simple: just sweep. 9 times out of 10 Latios will be able to tear through the opposing team by one hit KOing or two hit KOing most of the arena's threats, while surviving most things that aren't super-effective (and some things that are). Psychic, Ice beam, and Thunderbolt simply supply the best coverage. Testing with things like HP fire, Dragon claw, and HP grass it becomes clear that these three moves can simply do the same things as any other set, in two hitting most things. As said above, if this can sweep there is no reason to stop that by hitting memento. That being said anything that walls latios or will likely OHKO it memento is a fantastic move. There is very little that can take a chunk out of second mon Snorlax at -2, nonetheless stop it from setting up a curse and knocking it out in two hits subsequently.

180 speed is all you need to beat out the base 100 speed tiers that are present in arena, and anything that is faster is OHKO'd with very few exceptions. Only thing worth looking out for is some Electrodes that carry Mirror coat, but they can be easily neutralized by just Thunderbolting first then hitting Psychic. Rest of the EVs go into SpD to just give it a little more survivability to finish off things that take three hits and tank an Ice beam. It's best in SpD vs. HP because there are no physical threats to Latios that won't OHKO it anyways, better to just take less from super-effective special attacks.

The biggest change that's present here is the use of Cheri Berry over what is commonly brightpowder, twistedspoon, or similar. There are a LOT of twave, body slam or otherwise paralysis users in the Arena, ALOT. The Cheri Berry forces them all to hit twave twice and practically guarantee a loss in judging. This is particularly useful against several electric types or things like Registeel which Latios would otherwise lose to or take more than one hit to kill. Even if I wasn't running Lum Berry elsewhere on the team I would still recommend running Cheri, sleeper item pick for sure.

Latios was obtained with the Battle Tower trick in a Ruby cartridge using the roamer to get perfect IV's.

I'm confused as to why you chose the least optimal choice of nature for this facility. While Modest Latios is not bad at all means, the speed tier chosen is perplexing. 153 is a solid speed stat but for something as fast as Latios when you miss out on so many other targets like Espeon 2-4, Gengar, Starmie 4-8, Manectric and most importantly Aerodactyl 2 and Sceptile 4 is what makes me curious. Why letting these Pokemon, who can carry super-effective moves on Latios outspeed you? I'd probably assume that you're fine on losing Latios and then having Snorlax beat the special attackers I mentioned, but wouldn't that be counter-productive on the Arena to be in a disadvantage when you still don't know the other two Pokemon that your opponent brings?

What's the purpose of the magical calc in 76 SpD when there's no 2HKO or OHKO avoided?
  • 255+ SpA Alakazam Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 76 SpD Latios: 85-100 (54.8 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 255+ SpA Alakazam Ice Punch vs. 76 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 91-108 (55.1 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

  • 255+ SpA Starmie Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 76 SpD Latios: 86-102 (55.4 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 255+ SpA Starmie Ice Beam vs. 76 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 93-110 (56.3 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

  • 255+ SpA Lapras Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 76 SpD Latios: 117-138 (75.4 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 255+ SpA Lapras Ice Beam vs. 76 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 127-150 (76.9 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

View attachment 317388
Snorlax:
(M) @ Leftovers
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Ability: Thick Fat
Lvl: 100
Adamant nature
-Curse
-Shadow ball
-Earthquake
-Selfdestruct

I wouldn't call Snorlax the star of the team but it does seem to put in the most work. This is pretty standard stuff based on the leading Latios set. Again, 9 times out of 10 Latios will get enough work done for easy cleanup for Snorlax, and if it doesn't, Snorlax comes in against a -2 pokemon that will inevitably die to unboosted or 1 curse Lax.

EV's and nature are pretty standard, special mons, especially at -2 don't stand a chance at breaking through Lax. I've tested with some defensive or special defensive investments, but Lax shines with the big HP stat and needs all the attack to get some KOs due to not running a normal STAB. The standout part of this set is the crazy strong Selfdestruct.

Selfdestruct on Snorlax is the strongest unboosted attack in the game. It is seriously unreal how powerful it is, Slaking Hyper beam can't even compare. I won't post calcs here but I recommend just checking them out and seeing the damage it can do to things like Skarm, Wobbuffet, Etc. It makes explosion on things like Metagross and Gengar look pathetic. This synergizes so beautifully with the Latios lead that can kill most teams on its own. Probably around 250+ of the games in this streak are Latios sweeping into Snorlax blowing up. Selfdestruct is a XD move tutor move that Snorlax can learn. Lots of people don't know this because most PKMN resources don't list Lax as able to learn it, but it can and it's amazing.

Snorlax should avoid setting up unless it is out against the opponent's lead or a second mon that makes it free. Examples being Wobbuffet, Counter Swampert, and CurseLax. You're always better off just trying to kill whatever is out because the incredible Selfdestruct will annihilate the 3rd 95% of the time - and if it doesn't the last mon is specifically designed to always beat weakened PKMN.

It's also worth noting that while I used a male snorlax in my streak, female Snorlax avoids more attract mons than the male one does, hence making it the better option if possible, but to RNG one that has the right nature, IVs, ability, and gender can get old (assuming you want to do it all on cartridge).

Snorlax was obtained using egg IV RNG on an Emerald cartridge with a 3 IV ditto and I think 3 different Snorlax.

Max HP and Attack. PvP spread. All while ignoring that there's actually some defensive benchmarks you can reach to survive non-STAB Cross Chops. Next...

View attachment 317392
Latias:
(F) @ Lum Berry
IVs: 31/6/31/30/31/30
EVs: 128 HP / 202 SpA / 180 Spe
Ability: Levitate
Lvl: 100
Modest nature
-Psychic
-Ice beam
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power Fire

To complete the sandwich is Latias on the other end. Latias is a weird one, and only really barely outperformed other PKMN that I tested such as Suicune, Slaking, Tauros, Etc. At the end of the day Latias does a very similar job that Latios does, just instead of sweeping it is on cleanup duty. Whatever Latios and Lax can't take out falls on Latias to finish off. The thing about Latias is simple, but important. YOU NEVER WANT TO BRING OUT LATIAS. Latias is not made on this team to sweep or beat several mons. It can and will do that if it has to, but should be avoided at all costs. If you come down to Latias on this team, especially out against the second opponent mon, you should be very afraid of what comes after, it lacks the firepower and survivability to either win or get to judging. Generally though, this is designed to take out stuff at low health or nab quick OHKOs with super-effective attacks, hence moves like HP Fire.

Moveset is very obvious, best coverage possible. EVs are to maximize bulk while still getting important OHKOs on things like heracross, that can easily take you out. The HP Fire on Latias is important beyond the expected Forretress and Scizor, it is absolutely necessary for taking out Mirror coat users without getting blasted by PKMN such as Swampert, Tentacruel Milotic, and Blastoise. Dive is also a move I considered on this set, to try and kind of cheat your way to win judging, but things like Gold Greta's Shedinja are just too inconsistent. The IVs on this set are basically the best I could get while still getting 70 BP HP Fire on Latias.

Latias was obtained in an Emerald cartridge on Southern Island using the Battle Record frame skip, Method 1 RNG abuse on stationary and the Pomeg Glitch to get the Eon Ticket.
[/SPOILER]

You don't seem to be so confident when you talk about Latias? Wasn't the point of making a team to make sure all team members can fill in a role? Sure, one of them could be a weak link, but you probably should realize that HP Fire doesn't outright kills Scizor 1 who still has a chance to survive the hit and Counter Latias to death:

200+ SpA Latias Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 255 SpD Scizor: 139-164 (95.8 - 113.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

You mentioned that this EVs are meant to kill Heracross as well, but you forgot about the most important Heracross:
200+ SpA Latias Psychic vs. 255 HP / 0 SpD Heracross: 153-180 (81.8 - 96.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Also 180 Speed with a 30 Speed IV, puts you on 152 Speed. It's speed-tying with most Charizard, Ninetales and Zapdos sets.

View attachment 317402
Pinsir(2) Can easily sweep the team if you're careless. This is the Flail Endure Salac SD pinsir set, basically always memento on this because Latios will let it set up and sweep, being unable to get the kill before it hits SD and Endure to outspeed your team.
View attachment 317403
Jynx being an ice type is annoying, but sleep mons can make snorlax lose judging easily, this PKMN is only threat if it kills or comes out after Latios. Jynx(1) is the worst because Ice beam + Lovely kiss can beat both Latis and Lax.
View attachment 317404
Gardevoir(3/4) Both carry ice punch but no set that beats Latios beats Lax, still worth keeping an eye out for. Especially with Destiny bond around.
View attachment 317405View attachment 317406View attachment 317407View attachment 317408
Choice band users are VERY annoying for this team, generally you just want to memento on these guys to try and sweep with Lax. Granbull(4), Ursaring(2/4), Armaldo(4), Slaking(3) are the big bad boys. Generally I only really saw and worried about them on lead, but constant threats.
View attachment 317409
Dusclops(4) is Adamant with both shadow ball and pain split making it a nuissance for Latios and then Snorlax. You can risk losing judging if you're not careful.
View attachment 317410
This one is a funny one. Porygon2(4) has trace and Ice beam, so if they come out second against Latios and get levitate while revenge killing with Ice beam, they are untouchable to Snorlax, forcing him to blow up and rely on Latias, which is always undesirable. On lead, Psychic kills before it kills you, so only as a second or third mon is it annoying.
View attachment 317411
Scizor(4) is ALWAYS an instant memento. it is 252 HP 252 SpD and Latios will always let it set up and get swept by it. Even if it doesn't get an Agility or omniboost by the time Latias comes out, HP Fire doesn't take out the insane Scizor bulk. Scizor(2) looks threatening but without the HP and SpD investments Latios should win fairly easily.
View attachment 317412
All Umbreon sets can hax you in some capacity, I frequently am forced into just blowing Lax up on them to guarantee I don't get haxed by them, hoping to win with Latias which is always a gamble. Confuse ray and Double team are brutal. It's also worth noting that this team ALWAYS beats Gold Greta. (Turn 1 Memento, turn 2 Selfdestruct, turn 3/4 ohko with two Psychics).
View attachment 317413
HJK medicham can mess you up if it comes in on Lax with something that kills Latias in the back. Medicham(1/2) are usually fine but worth looking out for.
View attachment 317414View attachment 317415View attachment 317416View attachment 317417
These are the Mirror coat users in Arena that you need to watch out for. Swampert(2/4), Tentacruel(3/4), Milotic(1/2/4), and Blastoise(2/4) all pack Mirror coat. For Latios these guys aren't a big deal, but for Latias you have to be very very careful. Latias should always HP Fire, Ice beam, or Psychic these mons first to then kill with Thunderbolt or else it's game over. These guys are the ultimate streak killers when they come out against Latias.

Main reason why I'm suspicious about this streak is mostly because of this threat-list and how incredibly barren it is.

  • Pinsir 2 is only carried by the Bug Maniac class after +70 wins. It's so incredibly rare after beating the Gold symbol, I am surprised it was mentioned as a big threat here.
  • I see Jynx 1 is being mentioned and within reason, but what about Gengar 1? It's faster than Latios due to the speed stat you chose and it can pretty much do the same. Jynx 2 has Lovely Kiss too and Perish Song; If this move is used, you're guaranteed to lose your mon no matter what. Latios can't even come close to 2HKO with Thunderbolt. To make things better, Jynx 3 has Lovely Kiss, Substitue and Dream Eater. I guess I shouldn't describe what happens if she lands that kiss of death, right? So what's the plan in here when all Jynx sets are threatening to this team?
  • What if the CB Banders (:ursaring: :slaking: :granbull:) actually land a crit on Snorlax? This can happen a lot of times, specially on a very long streak.
  • Probably I should add that Metagross not being included in here is what makes me extremely doubtful about this team. At ~300 wins, you're guaranteed that you'll see it eventually. Metagross 2 can confuse Latios / Snorlax with Swagger and easily win the judging rounds. Words are not needed to describe Metagross 3 and how easily it could beat this team from start. STAB Meteor Mash or Shadow Ball will easily 2HKO Latios and beat Snorlax 1-v-1 since Metagross will always tank an Earthquake.
  • What about your game plan against Rhydon if it manages to QC OHKO Latios? Surprised you didn't buff Latias' SpA when it can actually be strengthened to get a OHKO on it: 200+ SpA Latias Ice Beam vs. 255 HP / 0 SpD Rhydon: 188-222 (88.6 - 104.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO.
  • Steelix 4 and Aggron 1/4 not being mentioned is also baffling. Both have QC, STAB Iron Tail to 2HKO Latios and if they manage to beat Latios and are under low HP, they'll explode on Snorlax leaving Latias alone against the rest of the world.



Clearly Golden Blissey hasn't been active in awhile, so I'm not sure what the current top streak is in Arena, I'd really appreciate it if someone could let me know so I can get some motivation to beat another person's record. The competitive nature of the frontier has always been my favourite, trying to get high streaks and beat others'.

I have a lot of concerns about this team and I don't like to step into threads this way, but considering that some of the explanations in here are very sub-optimal this may lead to misleading information. At most, sure, this current team can reach 56 wins and get the Gold Symbol with a couple of tries, but I don't think this reached 313 wins at all. Considering that there are people who experimented a lot on Arena, including myself, with different set ups; I don't think this is better than the Arena team wtset made (which btw does have a more detailed explanation compared to this write up, even with less words).

I need to see more of this team due to the concerns I have in here. I won't publish this streak at least until I see definitive proof that this team can actually reach to +100 wins consistently per attempt. Arena eliminates the switching factor which makes it even more difficult to build an ideal team. Teams in Arena will always lose to an unfavorable match-up the CPU might have which makes it really questionable to see high numbers being posted for this facility. If you have any video proof or anything that you can provide to prove this streak did reach +300 wins, I'll gladly re-consider my decision.
 
You should give the team a try, even in an emulator it's very effective and I never had a streak that died before 100. I agree the Snorlax set is what lets this team shine in the Arena, being a facility where matchup is key and has much less to do with clever team composition and different counters for different things. Like I said in one of my previous replies, I think a team like yours and others with setup bases to them are great, but just don't really shine in the Arena. It being a 3 turn based game mode setting up just seems a little backwards, and things like crits or low percent move effects become far more detrimental than for example in battle tower. I.E. Snorlax would never be bothered by Jynx(1) in the tower, no matter how much sleep and how many Ice beams it got off, but in Arena that Jynx is actually extremely threatning because you'll just lose judging.

And either way any team that I can use Selfdestruct Lax is one that I'll use until I die. It is so strong and so much fun to use.

I also like the use of Banded Salamence in the back, I did lots of testing with stuff like that before I settled into Latias. Things like Tauros, Slaking, Flygon, Etc. At the end of the day it is a) too much work to check what trainers have what PKMN to decide what move to lock into and b) just too risky when put in a bad situation by threats to the first two like the aforementioned Jynx(1). If Latios and Snorlax are dead I feel much safer with Latias out than a band user.

To add onto Kommo's opinion, I also have heavy doubts with this streak. I've done close to 100 runs in the Arena. I've lost more times than I can count by bs like focus band procs, double team misses and quick claw activations. Even my most recent record of 117 in the Arena, I felt invincible only to get haxed by King rock Aero. Even wtset, an excellent player who holds the current record, did not reach above 150.

Regarding actual problems with the spreads you listed, the Modest nature on both Latis seem to be wasted. Kommo-o already listed the fact that your defensive investment is arbitrary and I see no reason to run max speed if you are running Modest. Hell, there's a benefit to running Timid too, given how important speed is in the Arena.

You also completely ignore the threat that Blissey, Chansey and opposing Snorlax can cause your team. You are bound to lose the judging, miss or get countered by one of these blobs. Even QC Snorlax is a huge threat to your team, because you are going to be in a curse war, which you could easily lose with a QC activation or crit.

Regarding your Snorlax spread, it's very clearly lazily copied/ uninventive at best. I actually looked at the damage calculator and created my own spread that could live even cross chops from Machamp and CB attacks from Ursaring and is faster than opposing Snorlax/Steelix. Your Snorlax is not optimized for opposing damage calcs. Jynx also can screw over your team, especially since Latios doesn't ohko and Snorlax is at risk to get put to sleep. Leftovers is also a crappy item for Snorlax in the Arena. Furthermore, if you use curse, you only have 2 turns to ko a target. You better ko, otherwise you will lose the judging if the AI attacks you 3 times. I'll also remind you that you will not even 2ko Blissey without Return or booming on them.

252+ Atk Snorlax Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 193-228 (29.6 - 35%) -- 15.8% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Snorlax Return vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 295-348 (45.3 - 53.4%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO

I'm not even going to go into Latias. I don't mean to sound harsh by saying this. I have heavy doubts because I've played a ton of Arena and I think I would have difficulty reaching 70, let alone 100+.
 
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Just my 2 cents on the matter; like I already mentioned in the original post of my Arena streak, I do think that some form of a "Lati Sandwich" team is actually the better (and perhaps even the optimal) approach to Arena.

That being said, considering that Luke Warm who originally came up with the Lati Sandwich concept (and I think also Actaeon) tried very similar teams and did not get anywhere close to 313 wins (or even 200 for that matter), makes me very doubtful of the claimed record as well.
 
Just my 2 cents on the matter; like I already mentioned in the original post of my Arena streak, I do think that some form of a "Lati Sandwich" team is actually the better (and perhaps even the optimal) approach to Arena.

That being said, considering that Luke Warm who originally came up with the Lati Sandwich concept (and I think also Actaeon) tried very similar teams and did not get anywhere close to 313 wins (or even 200 for that matter), makes me very doubtful of the claimed record as well.

Mind you, I do believe Lati-Sandwich can be a successful concept if done properly. I'm not criticizing the Pokemon that were being used, but the nature and sets chosen along with the lacking explanations. It would make much more sense to me to use a Timid Latios on the lead spot instead to take advantage of the higher Speed, destroy Gengar 1 before it sweeps the team and take advantage of a faster Memento if needed. By being slower, you are at risk of getting critted before you move and you don't want that to happen if you have a Pokemon with a really high BST Speed like Latios does.

I also believe that the Snorlax could've been more optimized since Curse sweepers are vulnerable to crits and as someone who also experimented before with Snorlax, I do know you can take advantage of surviving crit Cross Chops from the likes of Magmar and Electabuzz which are worthy targets:

  • 255 Atk Magmar Cross Chop vs. 0 HP / 236 Def Snorlax on a critical hit: 197-232 (83.8 - 98.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Not claiming this is a definitive calc but Snorlax allows for much more experimentation than just slapping a Max HP / Max Atk spread.

On the Latias, my only criticism is that a wider array of threats were not taken into consideration. It doesn't even seems that the Speed drop due to the HP Fire IVs was taken into consideration and the benchmarks seems arbitrarily chosen. I see Latios more as a worthy user of a Lum Berry and you can probably use something like a Twisted Spoon to actually have a bigger chance of netting the KO on Heracross. I saw Actaeon using Salamence on that spot as well to justify its need to take down Heracross and his team also has an interesting concept that can lead to a healthy streak using Wish Latias on the lead spot instead. Who knows? I feel this team could be much better given the concept but the baffling team-building decisions taken in here makes me feel otherwise which is kind of disappointing.
 
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I do have some questions about this team. I read the whole write up and I am even more confused by some choices here. The Lati-Sandwich team is not a new concept in here and I'm pretty sure I saw a variant that used Fly Latios to take advantage of the judging points. While it's true that on three turns, battles go swiftly and it eliminates defensive threats like Blissey and Umbreon, there are still some gaps that I would like to understand here.



I'm confused as to why you chose the least optimal choice of nature for this facility. While Modest Latios is not bad at all means, the speed tier chosen is perplexing. 153 is a solid speed stat but for something as fast as Latios when you miss out on so many other targets like Espeon 2-4, Gengar, Starmie 4-8, Manectric and most importantly Aerodactyl 2 and Sceptile 4 is what makes me curious. Why letting these Pokemon, who can carry super-effective moves on Latios outspeed you? I'd probably assume that you're fine on losing Latios and then having Snorlax beat the special attackers I mentioned, but wouldn't that be counter-productive on the Arena to be in a disadvantage when you still don't know the other two Pokemon that your opponent brings?

What's the purpose of the magical calc in 76 SpD when there's no 2HKO or OHKO avoided?
  • 255+ SpA Alakazam Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 76 SpD Latios: 85-100 (54.8 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 255+ SpA Alakazam Ice Punch vs. 76 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 91-108 (55.1 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

  • 255+ SpA Starmie Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 76 SpD Latios: 86-102 (55.4 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 255+ SpA Starmie Ice Beam vs. 76 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 93-110 (56.3 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

  • 255+ SpA Lapras Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 76 SpD Latios: 117-138 (75.4 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 255+ SpA Lapras Ice Beam vs. 76 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 127-150 (76.9 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



Max HP and Attack. PvP spread. All while ignoring that there's actually some defensive benchmarks you can reach to survive non-STAB Cross Chops. Next...



You don't seem to be so confident when you talk about Latias? Wasn't the point of making a team to make sure all team members can fill in a role? Sure, one of them could be a weak link, but you probably should realize that HP Fire doesn't outright kills Scizor 1 who still has a chance to survive the hit and Counter Latias to death:

200+ SpA Latias Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 255 SpD Scizor: 139-164 (95.8 - 113.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

You mentioned that this EVs are meant to kill Heracross as well, but you forgot about the most important Heracross:
200+ SpA Latias Psychic vs. 255 HP / 0 SpD Heracross: 153-180 (81.8 - 96.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Also 180 Speed with a 30 Speed IV, puts you on 152 Speed. It's speed-tying with most Charizard, Ninetales and Zapdos sets.



Main reason why I'm suspicious about this streak is mostly because of this threat-list and how incredibly barren it is.

  • Pinsir 2 is only carried by the Bug Maniac class after +70 wins. It's so incredibly rare after beating the Gold symbol, I am surprised it was mentioned as a big threat here.
  • I see Jynx 1 is being mentioned and within reason, but what about Gengar 1? It's faster than Latios due to the speed stat you chose and it can pretty much do the same. Jynx 2 has Lovely Kiss too and Perish Song; If this move is used, you're guaranteed to lose your mon no matter what. Latios can't even come close to 2HKO with Thunderbolt. To make things better, Jynx 3 has Lovely Kiss, Substitue and Dream Eater. I guess I shouldn't describe what happens if she lands that kiss of death, right? So what's the plan in here when all Jynx sets are threatening to this team?
  • What if the CB Banders (:ursaring: :slaking: :granbull:) actually land a crit on Snorlax? This can happen a lot of times, specially on a very long streak.
  • Probably I should add that Metagross not being included in here is what makes me extremely doubtful about this team. At ~300 wins, you're guaranteed that you'll see it eventually. Metagross 2 can confuse Latios / Snorlax with Swagger and easily win the judging rounds. Words are not needed to describe Metagross 3 and how easily it could beat this team from start. STAB Meteor Mash or Shadow Ball will easily 2HKO Latios and beat Snorlax 1-v-1 since Metagross will always tank an Earthquake.
  • What about your game plan against Rhydon if it manages to QC OHKO Latios? Surprised you didn't buff Latias' SpA when it can actually be strengthened to get a OHKO on it: 200+ SpA Latias Ice Beam vs. 255 HP / 0 SpD Rhydon: 188-222 (88.6 - 104.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO.
  • Steelix 4 and Aggron 1/4 not being mentioned is also baffling. Both have QC, STAB Iron Tail to 2HKO Latios and if they manage to beat Latios and are under low HP, they'll explode on Snorlax leaving Latias alone against the rest of the world.





I have a lot of concerns about this team and I don't like to step into threads this way, but considering that some of the explanations in here are very sub-optimal this may lead to misleading information. At most, sure, this current team can reach 56 wins and get the Gold Symbol with a couple of tries, but I don't think this reached 313 wins at all. Considering that there are people who experimented a lot on Arena, including myself, with different set ups; I don't think this is better than the Arena team wtset made (which btw does have a more detailed explanation compared to this write up, even with less words).

I need to see more of this team due to the concerns I have in here. I won't publish this streak at least until I see definitive proof that this team can actually reach to +100 wins consistently per attempt. Arena eliminates the switching factor which makes it even more difficult to build an ideal team. Teams in Arena will always lose to an unfavorable match-up the CPU might have which makes it really questionable to see high numbers being posted for this facility. If you have any video proof or anything that you can provide to prove this streak did reach +300 wins, I'll gladly re-consider my decision.

Hi! First of all my apologies if I implied that this team was an original concept or thought up by me in it's basic form in any sense. This was seen and inspired by other teams and users I saw on this forum.

When it comes to Latios being modest over Timid - my thinking around the team was really rooted in the idea that Latios does as much damage or mementos everything it can, with the other two being strictly for finishing off the others. This is through things like selfdestruct and like you said having curse on Lax to capitalize on fast special attackers. Reading through your post I'm looking at calcs for the faster PKMN than Latios - I'm not going to act like I have a deep knowledge of every set and there are alot of things here that I didn't even consider, just threats that had team behind them that could beat the other tow that I hadn't run into. Espeon is something that I hadn't really thought about in the lead slot, same as Aerodactyl(2) no doubt would be annoying if the other two beat Lax. Things like Gengar, Starmie, Manectric, Sceptile, and Aerodactyl I never really found to be threats, Latios is a glass cannon on this team and as long as it can take out them out first, HP doesn't matter. Every Gengar is OHKOd, and Gengar(1) is annoying but I never actually lost to one. Every starmie that is bothersome is OHKOd by Tbolt, Manectric is 2HKOd, and Sceptile(4) is OHKOd. I actually didn't even consider making Latios faster as most of the heavy lifting on the team is done by Snorlax. Obviously all of this is to be taken with a grain of salt with the consideration that crits will just take out Latios outright, which happened infrequently and even less on lead.

Same deal with the SpD on Latios, in playing Latios really only died to special attackers, so it just made more sense to me to put SpD, I hadn't done those specific calcs like you presented - and really just played the stats by ear while playing with the team.

I actually had no idea there was defensive benchmarks for Snorlax to survive certain moves. Is it just Magmar and Electabuzz?

I only meant to say that Latias is the weakest member of the team, the other two being so dominant. I'm glad that all of these calcs are being shown to me because the Latias being a member that I constantly was changing around the stats are far from perfect. Latias was always able to OHKO Scizor apart from 4, I never actually got countered by Scizor(1). Same deal with Heracross(2) Latias just never came out against a full health Heracross(2) I guess, don't really have an excuse here understand why it looks bad lol.

Also Latias at lvl 100 30 IV and 180 EV hits 300, I played at open lvl. Sorry if I didn't make that clear - first post.

-The threatlist is just things that were the reasons for losses, and things that can cause similar trouble. Pinsir(2) was something that I lost to in lead or 2nd slot by trying to beat it with Latios instead of hitting Memento.
-Jynx(1) and (4) are very threatening through and through it's just a threat to this team everytime it comes out. Jynx(2) always loses judging and allows Latios to get a hit or a Memento off on whatever comes out next. Jynx(3) also loses to judging after Latios gets the first neutral hit with Tbolt. Jynx is just a threat that sucks to face in Arena with Latis and a slow mon.
-CB user crits happen. I've lost streaks to them I don't really know how to respond to this because yeah CB Ursaring will tear Snorlax up.
-Metagross should have been on the list I agree. Every Metagross is killed by two Tbolts into EQ. That's really all that happened with Metagross in my experience. Alot of these threats that have been outlined are things that take down the team after a crucial crit or similar. I understand and have experienced that crits are going to happen and I have and will continue to lose streaks to poorly timed crits. The same goes for QC and OHKO move users in general. I didn't think to include them in the Threatlist as the just seemed like factors out of my control. I don't know what to do when something gets hit with an OHKO move in general, same goes for Steelix and Aggron. It's frustrating but unavoidable, especially when they carry explosion for Lax. I generally memento on things that kill Latios before it can kill them, to give Lax the best chance possible. This was the emphasis I placed on avoiding bringing out Latias if possible. I do understand that long streaks are prone to bad luck and that's why you mentioned these, though. Again I want to mention that the Latias spread is imperfect and that I can't wait to make adjustments based on all of this information to get more streaks.

As for Submenceisop's reply, I didn't know that Modest wouldn't be optimal as I said above, beating out the 100 speed tier had been working for me. And I don't mean to downplay any of the bulky normal types that you can face. I never lost a streak to blissey, Latios only ever lost to 3/4 both of which Snorlax beats. I also literally never had any issues against opposing Snorlax. Not once. Snorlax with counter always spam that up against your lax allowing you blow up or curse up, and ones with curse always use that 3 times allowing you to do it twice and hitting them to win judging. Please give me your Snorlax spread because I'd love to apply it and try the calcs for myself.


I'm sorry to see that there are lots of doubts about the streak. I am appreciative of all the replies, Kommo-0, Submenceisop, and wtset. I'm going to take all of the feedback and do streaks in an emulator to create some video of high streaks as proof. I'd love some more advice on better spreads because I completely understand the doubt and would love to get more high streaks. I have no issues with not wanting to make official this streak and I want to continue the conversation and hopefully others will try the team too.
 
Hi! First of all my apologies if I implied that this team was an original concept or thought up by me in it's basic form in any sense. This was seen and inspired by other teams and users I saw on this forum.

When it comes to Latios being modest over Timid - my thinking around the team was really rooted in the idea that Latios does as much damage or mementos everything it can, with the other two being strictly for finishing off the others. This is through things like selfdestruct and like you said having curse on Lax to capitalize on fast special attackers. Reading through your post I'm looking at calcs for the faster PKMN than Latios - I'm not going to act like I have a deep knowledge of every set and there are alot of things here that I didn't even consider, just threats that had team behind them that could beat the other tow that I hadn't run into. Espeon is something that I hadn't really thought about in the lead slot, same as Aerodactyl(2) no doubt would be annoying if the other two beat Lax. Things like Gengar, Starmie, Manectric, Sceptile, and Aerodactyl I never really found to be threats, Latios is a glass cannon on this team and as long as it can take out them out first, HP doesn't matter. Every Gengar is OHKOd, and Gengar(1) is annoying but I never actually lost to one. Every starmie that is bothersome is OHKOd by Tbolt, Manectric is 2HKOd, and Sceptile(4) is OHKOd. I actually didn't even consider making Latios faster as most of the heavy lifting on the team is done by Snorlax. Obviously all of this is to be taken with a grain of salt with the consideration that crits will just take out Latios outright, which happened infrequently and even less on lead.

Same deal with the SpD on Latios, in playing Latios really only died to special attackers, so it just made more sense to me to put SpD, I hadn't done those specific calcs like you presented - and really just played the stats by ear while playing with the team.

I actually had no idea there was defensive benchmarks for Snorlax to survive certain moves. Is it just Magmar and Electabuzz?

I only meant to say that Latias is the weakest member of the team, the other two being so dominant. I'm glad that all of these calcs are being shown to me because the Latias being a member that I constantly was changing around the stats are far from perfect. Latias was always able to OHKO Scizor apart from 4, I never actually got countered by Scizor(1). Same deal with Heracross(2) Latias just never came out against a full health Heracross(2) I guess, don't really have an excuse here understand why it looks bad lol.

Also Latias at lvl 100 30 IV and 180 EV hits 300, I played at open lvl. Sorry if I didn't make that clear - first post.

-The threatlist is just things that were the reasons for losses, and things that can cause similar trouble. Pinsir(2) was something that I lost to in lead or 2nd slot by trying to beat it with Latios instead of hitting Memento.
-Jynx(1) and (4) are very threatening through and through it's just a threat to this team everytime it comes out. Jynx(2) always loses judging and allows Latios to get a hit or a Memento off on whatever comes out next. Jynx(3) also loses to judging after Latios gets the first neutral hit with Tbolt. Jynx is just a threat that sucks to face in Arena with Latis and a slow mon.
-CB user crits happen. I've lost streaks to them I don't really know how to respond to this because yeah CB Ursaring will tear Snorlax up.
-Metagross should have been on the list I agree. Every Metagross is killed by two Tbolts into EQ. That's really all that happened with Metagross in my experience. Alot of these threats that have been outlined are things that take down the team after a crucial crit or similar. I understand and have experienced that crits are going to happen and I have and will continue to lose streaks to poorly timed crits. The same goes for QC and OHKO move users in general. I didn't think to include them in the Threatlist as the just seemed like factors out of my control. I don't know what to do when something gets hit with an OHKO move in general, same goes for Steelix and Aggron. It's frustrating but unavoidable, especially when they carry explosion for Lax. I generally memento on things that kill Latios before it can kill them, to give Lax the best chance possible. This was the emphasis I placed on avoiding bringing out Latias if possible. I do understand that long streaks are prone to bad luck and that's why you mentioned these, though. Again I want to mention that the Latias spread is imperfect and that I can't wait to make adjustments based on all of this information to get more streaks.

As for Submenceisop's reply, I didn't know that Modest wouldn't be optimal as I said above, beating out the 100 speed tier had been working for me. And I don't mean to downplay any of the bulky normal types that you can face. I never lost a streak to blissey, Latios only ever lost to 3/4 both of which Snorlax beats. I also literally never had any issues against opposing Snorlax. Not once. Snorlax with counter always spam that up against your lax allowing you blow up or curse up, and ones with curse always use that 3 times allowing you to do it twice and hitting them to win judging. Please give me your Snorlax spread because I'd love to apply it and try the calcs for myself.


I'm sorry to see that there are lots of doubts about the streak. I am appreciative of all the replies, Kommo-0, Submenceisop, and wtset. I'm going to take all of the feedback and do streaks in an emulator to create some video of high streaks as proof. I'd love some more advice on better spreads because I completely understand the doubt and would love to get more high streaks. I have no issues with not wanting to make official this streak and I want to continue the conversation and hopefully others will try the team too.
I'll definitely try it out tonight! I'm not THAT sure Modest Latios has no merits here combined with Snorlax' assaults. I'm pretty confident that Snorlax' EVs are suboptimal though.
 
Hi! First of all my apologies if I implied that this team was an original concept or thought up by me in it's basic form in any sense. This was seen and inspired by other teams and users I saw on this forum.

When it comes to Latios being modest over Timid - my thinking around the team was really rooted in the idea that Latios does as much damage or mementos everything it can, with the other two being strictly for finishing off the others. This is through things like selfdestruct and like you said having curse on Lax to capitalize on fast special attackers. Reading through your post I'm looking at calcs for the faster PKMN than Latios - I'm not going to act like I have a deep knowledge of every set and there are alot of things here that I didn't even consider, just threats that had team behind them that could beat the other tow that I hadn't run into. Espeon is something that I hadn't really thought about in the lead slot, same as Aerodactyl(2) no doubt would be annoying if the other two beat Lax. Things like Gengar, Starmie, Manectric, Sceptile, and Aerodactyl I never really found to be threats, Latios is a glass cannon on this team and as long as it can take out them out first, HP doesn't matter. Every Gengar is OHKOd, and Gengar(1) is annoying but I never actually lost to one. Every starmie that is bothersome is OHKOd by Tbolt, Manectric is 2HKOd, and Sceptile(4) is OHKOd. I actually didn't even consider making Latios faster as most of the heavy lifting on the team is done by Snorlax. Obviously all of this is to be taken with a grain of salt with the consideration that crits will just take out Latios outright, which happened infrequently and even less on lead.

Same deal with the SpD on Latios, in playing Latios really only died to special attackers, so it just made more sense to me to put SpD, I hadn't done those specific calcs like you presented - and really just played the stats by ear while playing with the team.

I actually had no idea there was defensive benchmarks for Snorlax to survive certain moves. Is it just Magmar and Electabuzz?

I only meant to say that Latias is the weakest member of the team, the other two being so dominant. I'm glad that all of these calcs are being shown to me because the Latias being a member that I constantly was changing around the stats are far from perfect. Latias was always able to OHKO Scizor apart from 4, I never actually got countered by Scizor(1). Same deal with Heracross(2) Latias just never came out against a full health Heracross(2) I guess, don't really have an excuse here understand why it looks bad lol.

Also Latias at lvl 100 30 IV and 180 EV hits 300, I played at open lvl. Sorry if I didn't make that clear - first post.

-The threatlist is just things that were the reasons for losses, and things that can cause similar trouble. Pinsir(2) was something that I lost to in lead or 2nd slot by trying to beat it with Latios instead of hitting Memento.
-Jynx(1) and (4) are very threatening through and through it's just a threat to this team everytime it comes out. Jynx(2) always loses judging and allows Latios to get a hit or a Memento off on whatever comes out next. Jynx(3) also loses to judging after Latios gets the first neutral hit with Tbolt. Jynx is just a threat that sucks to face in Arena with Latis and a slow mon.
-CB user crits happen. I've lost streaks to them I don't really know how to respond to this because yeah CB Ursaring will tear Snorlax up.
-Metagross should have been on the list I agree. Every Metagross is killed by two Tbolts into EQ. That's really all that happened with Metagross in my experience. Alot of these threats that have been outlined are things that take down the team after a crucial crit or similar. I understand and have experienced that crits are going to happen and I have and will continue to lose streaks to poorly timed crits. The same goes for QC and OHKO move users in general. I didn't think to include them in the Threatlist as the just seemed like factors out of my control. I don't know what to do when something gets hit with an OHKO move in general, same goes for Steelix and Aggron. It's frustrating but unavoidable, especially when they carry explosion for Lax. I generally memento on things that kill Latios before it can kill them, to give Lax the best chance possible. This was the emphasis I placed on avoiding bringing out Latias if possible. I do understand that long streaks are prone to bad luck and that's why you mentioned these, though. Again I want to mention that the Latias spread is imperfect and that I can't wait to make adjustments based on all of this information to get more streaks.

As for Submenceisop's reply, I didn't know that Modest wouldn't be optimal as I said above, beating out the 100 speed tier had been working for me. And I don't mean to downplay any of the bulky normal types that you can face. I never lost a streak to blissey, Latios only ever lost to 3/4 both of which Snorlax beats. I also literally never had any issues against opposing Snorlax. Not once. Snorlax with counter always spam that up against your lax allowing you blow up or curse up, and ones with curse always use that 3 times allowing you to do it twice and hitting them to win judging. Please give me your Snorlax spread because I'd love to apply it and try the calcs for myself.


I'm sorry to see that there are lots of doubts about the streak. I am appreciative of all the replies, Kommo-0, Submenceisop, and wtset. I'm going to take all of the feedback and do streaks in an emulator to create some video of high streaks as proof. I'd love some more advice on better spreads because I completely understand the doubt and would love to get more high streaks. I have no issues with not wanting to make official this streak and I want to continue the conversation and hopefully others will try the team too.

I'll be more than happy to see any videos being uploaded considering that some of us expressed their doubts already. Just take into account that if you do plan to edit some of the EV spreads and sets, I will be counting it as a different streak. For the record, I don't mind on whether people use other people's teams or not (FYI I added Maizup's streak using one of my teams as a formal streak in here since I only presented it as a concept originally). Also, if you're playing on Open Level, was Tyranitar taken into account? I would definitely add that Pokemon as a mayor threat. Open Level also opens up more legendary sets (Legendaries set 6-8 and so on...)

I don't want to jump into conclusions at least until I see what you have. Feel free to tag me when it's done and thanks for keeping this civilized. We do appreciate that you didn't took any of this in bad blood and there's no intention from us to cause harm either. As mentioned before, I'll be more than happy to include this team assuming there's real evidence that it can reach more than +100 wins.
 
Streak-wise I don't really think it has as much to do with luck or hax as much as it does just not seeing certain matchups. This team and the Arena in general isn't really designed in such a way that bad luck is what beats you.
While other users (Kommo-o , submenceisop , wtset ) have clearly pointed out some clear tactical issues of the team, I know I'll sound rude but I must admit indeed that the previous statement is completely out of reality.

Due to its format, Arena is one of the most hax-prone facilities, period.
A single turn of miss due to confusion/evasion/status/QC/BP/CH can spell the word end for every streak, especially considering that one cannot even try to avoid hax with some defensive gameplans, once again due to this really punishing format.


A plain-offensive team is not suited for a long streak and we all know it, your team has issues and it can even be ok: I would have definitely liked and trusted a player who claimed a 313 Wins streak in the Arena after some tries, conscious of his luck (because, once again, this is the n°1 aspect one needs to pass 100w in Arena, especially with a sub-optimized team like this).



Well, I honestly think it was way to bold to claim that hax/luck is not an issue in the Arena, especially for an all-out attacking team like that, also claiming that it can (and also had!) always reach(ed) such numbers, like no one has ever tried an haymaker strategy before.
I know this was just a phrase in a post, but this statement is way more suspicious than every EVs calc in my opinion.
 
While other users (Kommo-o , submenceisop , wtset ) have clearly pointed out some clear tactical issues of the team, I know I'll sound rude but I must admit indeed that the previous statement is completely out of reality.

Due to its format, Arena is one of the most hax-prone facilities, period.
A single turn of miss due to confusion/evasion/status/QC/BP/CH can spell the word end for every streak, especially considering that one cannot even try to avoid hax with some defensive gameplans, once again due to this really punishing format.


A plain-offensive team is not suited for a long streak and we all know it, your team has issues and it can even be ok: I would have definitely liked and trusted a player who claimed a 313 Wins streak in the Arena after some tries, conscious of his luck (because, once again, this is the n°1 aspect one needs to pass 100w in Arena, especially with a sub-optimized team like this).



Well, I honestly think it was way to bold to claim that hax/luck is not an issue in the Arena, especially for an all-out attacking team like that, also claiming that it can (and also had!) always reach(ed) such numbers, like no one has ever tried an haymaker strategy before.
I know this was just a phrase in a post, but this statement is way more suspicious than every EVs calc in my opinion.

I only meant to say that unlike a facility that rewards setting up or stalling the opponent like in the Battle Tower, Arena is one that you're far more prone to lose to a team of 3 counters - considering switching is out of the picture.

Really I meant to emphasize the effect that no switching has on gameplay. Hopefully I'll post some video's of sets higher in streaks to make things more official and verifiable.
 
Congrats on the promotion, Kommo! You've come a long way from being the Team Azure guy I once knew you as. That post really opened my eyes to the possibilities and structure of the frontier.

And with an active mod, I don't feel as bad bumping up my best Open Level Factory score from 63 to 78! I hope to write a full length strategy guide to the factory someday. It's the most exciting facility and has the best replays imo.

Round 5: Gyarados4 ➡ Latios6, Regirock6, Machamp5Lanturn1 ➡ Raikou2
Round 6: Latios8, Registeel6 ➡ Metagross5, Starmie8
Round 7: Gengar6, Tyranitar4, Regirock1
Round 8: Raikou6, Snorlax7 ➡ Salamence5, Swampert3
Round 9: Misdreavus1 ➡ Raikou4, Vaporeon4 ➡ Starmie7, Electabuzz4 ➡ Blissey4
This is a battle I posted previously, but it was during this round and is the first battle after a heavily flawed IV starting draft.
Round 10: Zapdos1, Starmie8, Blissey2
Round 11: Espeon2 ➡ Latias8, Blastoise3 ➡ Suicune5, Snorlax3
Below is a real nail biter during this round!
So I got absolutely wrecked by my starting picks. And I'm not one to complain, but not only are these wimpy Pokemon, but the EV's and movesets themselves suck!
Glalie2 - Max attack and speed with Explosion, Icy wind, endure, body slam
Mr.Mime2 - Leichi Berry, Adamant -with no Special Attack investment, with swagger, psych up, baton pass, psychic.
Hypno1 - Twistedspoon with all elemental punches and hypnosis.
Fearow3 - Max Attack and Speed with Frustration and Drill peck.
Raichu2 - Max Attack and Speed with Endure, Reversal, Thunderbolt and Agility.
Machamp7 - Max HP and Attack with Substitute, Focus Punch, Double Team, and attract.

I thought long and hard before choosing Raichu2, Fearow3, and Glalie2. The synergy lands me one win at Battle 78, and I ditch Boom Glalie for Marowak4. A response to a steel type, which my team desperately needed.. But Battle 79 shot me down hard, as you'll see:
20210221_122021.jpg
 
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