Gen III Battle Frontier Discussion and Records

[wtset]

I'm not actually advocating that we factor in availability, I just think it contradicts the reasoning behind doing a combined list for all facilities.

 

[submenceisop]

Charm

How do you obtain a Registeel with such a specific IV spread? Waiting for the right method 1 frame to come up is surely impractical?

Hey bro. I just got one. Careful nature with 31/26/30/2/31/26 with HP steel in my Emerald version. It took a long time, especially because I'm not very good at getting on the right frame. But it was worth it. To get stats with the right nature though, you need to wait like 100,000 frames at the very least. But thankfully emulator allows you to save states to make it easy.

 

[submenceisop]

So decided to re-design the tier-list after some thought process and since more people are active on this thread, figured I could ask for everyone's opinion on this. I'll also add descriptions on the top 10-20 Pokemon and figured I could make this for Frontier overall:

S+ Rank

Blissey

Blissey

The queen of Generation III. Her incredible 255 base HP and her humongous base 135 SpD makes it arguably the best special wall in the game. No special sweeper in Gen III is capable of getting past her gargantuan special defense and it's almost guaranteed that Blissey will always end up achieving her goal which is either by setting up or stalling her opponent's PP. While her physical defense is pitiful, by investing fully on it, you get to tank many physical attacks as long as they don't come from Machamp or Hariyama. Access to Natural Care, Aromatherapy, Softboiled and Toxic makes it an incredible support Pokemon for teams in other facilities such as Pike, Tower and Pyramid where she can heal her teammates from status or replenish her teammate's HP with Softboiled's field effect.

Latios

Latios

The most broken Pokemon of Generation III. There's a reason why Game Freak disabled Soul Dew's effects on battle facilities but not that it matters a lot anyways because this absolute monster doesn't needs a lot of boosts to run through teams like a hot knife on butter. Base 110 Speed and 130 Special Attack are incredible stats for a sweeper on this generation. Access to Calm Mind means that Latios not only gains a way to boost itself for higher damage output but also gains durability from the special side as even with a +1 is good enough to avoid being 2HKO'd by non-STAB Ice Beams outside a critical hit. Latios also has decent defenses and while they don't make incredibly durable, they are good enough for him to stay on the field as long as it needs. Latios shines on almost any facility because its offensive attributes are simply too good to pass and most of the time you will only end up making a few modifications on its moveset for Gold Symbols on any facility.

Suicune

Suicune

What do you get when you combine incredible durability with a solid defensive typing, Pressure, Calm Mind and decent Speed? You get an unstoppable force of nature. Suicune is the perfect combination of Latios' sweeping potential and Blissey's durability into a single Pokemon capable of not only sweeping teams by itself once fully set-up but even those Pokemon meant to wall Suicune (Quagsire, Lapras and Vaporeon) get easily outstalled thanks to its absurdly high defenses and Pressure depleting their PP. With a Ground type, it is very easy to fit into many teams and swap stalling is also something Suicune can easily abuse. While Suicune shines the most on Tower and Dome, I'm pretty confident it can do well on a Pyramid run and in the Palace a Modest nature offers a great balance on the move types it will choose (Over 50%, Suicune has high odds of setting up and attacking while at below 50%, it will prioritize Rest use).

S Rank

Metagross

Metagross

This super computer doesn't really needs a lot to deliver over 1200 kilograms of pain. Metagross has an incredible stat distribution where it has been blessed by a titanic base 135 Attack with a great physical movepool and a beefy base 130 Defense which grants it great durability. Its main niche comes from the fact that it is the best Steel STAB user thanks to its signature Meteor Mash, a high risk, high reward move that has a chance of raising its Attack stat to obscene levels. With a Choice Band, Metagross will easily tear through anything that doesn't resists its coverage moves and it can even run some Spe EVs to outrun specific defensive threats such as Milotic without sacrificing a lot of bulk. It also gains access to Explosion which is arguably the best nuke on this Generation which completely annihilates Curse users such as Snorlax and Umbreon until kingdom comes.

It's only drawback comes from the fact that Metagross' Speed is just plain average which means that it will be outsped by threats such as Alakazam and Gengar who can potentially KO with a critical hit and it will easily get destroyed by strong specially based Fire types such as Moltres or Houndoom. Other than that, it is a very easy Pokemon to use and fit on many facility teams due to its favorable match-up against most of the Frontier Brain's teams.

Slaking

Slaking

Once this monster goes apeshit, your opponent's Pokemon are going down like a miserable pile of swatted flies. Slaking's base stat distribution (670) is the same one as legendary Pokemon such as Groudon. With a Choice Band and its humongous Attack stat, it is almost guaranteed to get a kill on the turns that Truant allows it to move. Slaking also has decent physical bulk and a large base HP, allowing it to tank some hits from physical threats such as Metagross or Snorlax. Hyper Beam, Double-Edge, Earthquake and Shadow Ball all provide immense damage and coverage to any threat in the Frontier.

Because of these attributes and great Speed tier, Slaking rules dominantly on short format fights in facilities such as Dome and Pyramid where Truant has little or no influence on the outcome of the match. It also does decently on Tower although for every turn you'll be usually forced out which kills your momentum and it is highly undesired.

Truth be told, Slaking is not without flaws. Besides the inherent problem of having Truant as an ability, Slaking has no inherent protection against OHKO moves or status, as it will almost always have a Choice Band and no Substitute. If Slaking is unable to OHKO the opposing Pokemon, it can present a problem if the opponent begins to set up or cripple Slaking, severely reducing its utility.

Latias

Latias

While Latios outclasses Latias on almost every role possible she can hope to do on the offensive side (Offensive CM and SubCM), there is but one small but valuable role in which Latias can actually justify its slot over Latios which is being one of the best cripplers on this Generation. If you've seen my previous team on DDW, this is pretty much Latias' main role for the Tower to guarantee a support sweeper or a bulky win-con get the job done. Even though this set only applies for the Tower, Latias is a decent mon to use as an offensive sweeper in case you favor its higher defense stats or you can't RNG a good Latios.

Salamence

Salamence

Salamence is arguably one of the best sweepers of this generation and that has proven to be true throughout the years. A great stat distribution where its offensive stats and great Speed gets the highlight, very few things are able to stop Salamence's sweep after a couple of boosts. HP Flying is a reliable STAB that gets a respectable amount of kills after a Dragon Dance and it gets Earthquake to complement its coverage with the whole purpose of punishing Steel and Rock types who think they are safe from its onslaught. It also gets Intimidate which is one of the best abilities on this game which lowers the foe's Attack stat and weakens it either to grab more chances to set-up against a weakened foe or for another teammates to take advantage of the Attack redcuction.

It's biggest drawback comes from the fact that because this Trumpet Seaworld region has too much water (7/10), any water type and its mother will surely have an Ice Beam ready to obliterate Salamence's dream of getting the sweep. Also, if you can afford running HP Flying, Aerial Ace is its second best STAB which due to its pathetic base power, it is simply unable to grab kills even at +1 or +2. But hey, at least it won't miss against Double Team spammers which is something.

Gengar

Gengar

Gengar's great speed tier, expansive movepool and it's actually great defensive typing combined with Levitate makes it a really awesome Pokemon to use in Frontier. You'll never want to run fully offensive sets because Gengar has no special STABs on this generation which hampers a lot its offensive potential. However, Gengar has an incredible support moveset, often overlooked, and with options such as Taunt, Destiny Bond and even Perish Song, if you know how to use these at your own advantage, you got a solid Pokemon that can shine on many facilities. It's also worth to mention that because of its Ghost typing and Levitate, Gengar is only vulnerable to Sheer Cold from all OHKO moves available.

It's main flaws relies on the fact that its defenses are paper thin and even if you invest bulk on Gengar, any respectable super-effective STAB will destroy it. With Psychic types being very common on this generation, Gengar can't really do a lot to them unless it involves taking them down with him via Destiny Bond assuming you're ok with losing him on the process. Destiny Bond is pretty OP on Dome and has great utility on Tower.

PS: You are a complete noob if you're using a fully special attacking Gengar.

A+ Rank

Steelix

Steelix

Steelix is IMO the 2nd best Steel type of this generation and trust me, me and Adedede spent a hell lot of our time to put some respect on its name. While its overall BST is not that impressive outside that outstanding base 200 Defense, Steelix possesses a unique type combination which grants it 9 resistances and two immunities only for the price of 3 weaknesses. It also possesses Sturdy which is a fantastic ability to block and laugh at Lapras 8's miserable attempts on doing anything relevant in front of it.

The CB set is the most splashable one facility-wise because it gains a respectable amount of power with the item and it does very well on the Dome and Pyramid (with Steelix having a super favorable match-up against Brandon's Silver and Gold parties). However, if you aim for higher streaks on the Tower, you definitely want to use the Calm Protect + Torment set I built with my friend Thomaz. Because most Pokemon rely on a single coverage move to hurt Steelix, after a Protect Steelix can easily block said move and recover the lost HP on a move that is not threatening towards it while stalling out the opponent.

Steelix also has its flaws which means that despite its huge defensive prowess, Steelix falls down to special Fire and Water attacks which significantly hurt it a lot. While Steelix can shrug off any non-STAB Ground and Fight attack, STAB users like Machamp or Flygon are an issue. However, Sturdy and its immunity to OHKO attacks makes up for its shortcomings and it is a very good Pokemon to use on this Generation, much more than what you can think of.

Swampert

Swampert

Greatly balanced stats, two strong STABs and an awesome defensive typing with only one weakness, there's a reason why Werster used Swampert on his speedrun team. STAB Ground attacks are incredibly powerful on this generation and Swampert is easily capable of destroying Pokemon such as opposing Metagross and it also gains access to Ice Beam to put Salamence on its toes. It's STAB Surf is also a great offensive move Swampert can rely on to hit targets like Golem and Rhydon who take more damage from it than Earthquake. It's biggest strength relies on its immunity to Electric types which allows it to beat very easily Pokemon like Jolteon or Zapdos. It also brings a sturdy Rock resistance which is very welcome against Pokemon like Regirock or Tyranitar (if you are on Open Level).

One of its main issues comes from the fact that Swampert "doesn't knows" what exactly it wants to be due to its balanced stats. There's not really a stat you want to hinder because even by adding Spe EVs on a -Spe nature it has a valuable niche (Which is what Werster used on his run) and as a result, there's no ideal EV spread for Swampert which makes it complicated to use it. As a Water type, it's lack of an Ice and Water resistance makes it a very shaky answer against its own kindred; unlike Pokemon like Suicune, Milotic or even Vaporeon, Swampert has an unfavorable match-up against opposing Water types because it gets hit neutrally from them and critical hits can easily take it down. Also, it's lack of recovery outside Rest makes it very easy to worn out on longer games which is not ideal. Swampert is a great Pokemon but not a suitable one for longer streaks in facilities such as the Battle Tower.

Starmie

Starmie

Starmie is basically a poor man's Lati@s or at least your excuse of not being able to use an Eon Dragon with decent IVs. It's amazing Speed and respectable Special Attack combined with its simple yet incredible coverage options makes it a great Pokemon to use as a lead if you decide to use it. Thanks to Natural Care, Starmie can easily switch out and heal its status ailments.

Due to the incredibly limited item options in Gen 3 for a sweeper, Starmie doesn't has an ideal item (sigh, if only Life Orb or Expert Belt were introduced a generation sooner) which makes it awkward to decide upon. Starmie's defenses are not that good and pretty much anything that is able to take a hit from Starmie and able to hit back with super-effective moves, will surely take it down.

Flygon

Flygon

Flygon is one of my personal favorites and while you might be wondering what does it brings ahead of Salamence or Lati@s the answer is simple: STAB Earthquake. With a Choice Band, Flygon is guaranteed to kill any Rock or Steel type outside Regirock or Skarm (obvious) with its STAB Earthquake while dealing huge damage to anything that is hit neutrally to it. It also gains access to Rock Slide which hits whatever is immune or resistant to Earthquake which pretty much complements its coverage.

That's where my praise of Flygon ends though. One of my main issues on using it is that it is very difficult to teambuild with. Flygon can't really use any other item such as Choice Band which makes it harder to balance with a Pokemon like Metagross who also needs the item. It's other two moves outside Rock Slide and Earthquake are pretty much filler. Fire Blast could be used but you'll need a significant amount of SpA EVs in order to kill Forretress and Scizor while it remains as its only option to defeat Skarmory because Flamethrower is so pitifully weak. Fly is an option but simply because for some odd reason Game Freak couldn't put Aerial Ace on its moveset for this generation. Quick Attack works for Reversal Medicham and Heracross, I guess.

Milotic

Milotic

Milotic or commonly aka "the Suicune replacement" as a bad taste joke for April Fool's. Milotic is a pretty good Pokemon on its own if you know exactly what its role is supposed to mean to. One of its biggest niches steams from the fact that since it gains access to instant recovery unlike Suicune, Milotic can pretty much free its last moveslot deciding on how it wants to support its team. Base 81 Speed is pretty good since with Icy Wind, it can outrun base uninvested 100s like Salamence 4 and defeat them 1-v-1. Also, since its Special Attack is higher, it can effectively use Ice Beam since it will definitely take out big chunks of health from its targets. Toxic is also a good move since it lets Milotic wall most of its kindred and put them on timer (shame that Gyarados 4 will beat you regardless). While most invest on their Defense state to maximize its durability considering how high its Special Defense is, Milotic is a very difficult Pokemon to take down meaning to stay in the match and provide that defensive backbone a team is looking for.

The only flaw I can think on Milotic is that since it lacks Suicune's sweeping potential, it only limits itself to a defensive role which is inferior to what Blissey can already provide to a team.

PS: Please don't use him as a Suicune replacement. Milotic is a good Pokemon on its own, not on a role where you wish you had Cune instead.

A Rank
Tauros
Raikou
Gyarados
Snorlax
Heracross

A- Rank
Moltres
Vaporeon
Zapdos
Aerodactyl
Registeel
Skarmory

B+ Rank
Dusclops
Registeel
Ludicolo
Regice
Gardevoir
Alakazam

B Rank
Medicham
Espeon
Scizor
Jolteon
Wobbuffet
Sceptile
Quagsire

B- Rank
Blaziken
Wobbufet
Porygon2
Magneton
Crobat
Umbreon

+C Rank
Weezing
Shedinja
Linoone
Smeargle
Machamp
Ninetales

C Rank
Regirock
Meganium
Ursaring
Dodrio
Houndoom
Rhydon

-C Rank
Venusaur
Hitmonlee
Charizard
Dragonite
Donphan
Arcanine
Articuno

I would say Suicune is S+ rank if you get a good IV one in Colosseum, A+ rank otherwise. I was estastic to get one in LG with a Bold nature with 29/1/0/0/0/0 ivs after like 6 resets, but the lack of ivs is noticeable compared to the one I got from Colosseum. I agree with your assessment on the other S tiers. I'm not a huge fan of perish song gengar or full special (because of the lack of stab), but I really think explosion Gengar with Hasty is where it's at. I used a smogon set, but someone can probably generate a better one that optimizes the attack evs. Obviously there's some that prefer the D-bond route, but I think it's worth mentioning because explosion is useful even in match ups vs fat teams that can't kill you. Like booming on Blissey and Umbreon, which I've done loads of times in my Battle Arena runs. In fact, I think it's especially useful in that format, because you can't switch and even if you don't ko the target (which is rare besides immunities and hard resists), you end the turn (which prevents double team/curse from stuff like Snorlax). There's also only 6 ghost types (Misdreavus, Dusclops, Gengar, Shedninja, Banette, Sable-eye) but I've only ever struggled with Gengar and Dusclops with double team.

I tried a specially defensive Dusclops set in the Tower with Sub CM Latias and Suicune and got 84 wins. But Dusclops was underwhelming. It's bad hp stat really undermines it's great defenses and it's prone to getting haxed. No reliable recovery either, so it has to rely on rest or pain split. When the matchup is good, Dusclops pp stalls with the best of them, but I found it was a little too frail for my liking. I replaced it with Registeel and I'm experiencing way more success. Registeel deserves to be A or A+ rank imo.

Magneton and Jolteon seem high. Trapping steels isn't an important niche and I struggle to see how Magneton is useful even with it's great resistances and good special attack. Jolteon needs to run Timid to guarantee speed ties vs Aero and it's special attack is nothing special. It's coverage is basically just t-bolt and hidden power. I guess you can t-wave or baton pass subs/petaya/liechi berry, but I don't think Baton pass is particularly useful in any facility.

Same goes for Ninetales. Maybe grudge is interesting? I don't see how it excels defensively or offensively with that barren movepool.
Tyranitar should be on the list. No higher than B-, probably a C or C+ ranker. I don't think it's a good DD user and wouldn't be as useful as you would like in the defensive role with it's weaknesses. Not going to argue too much for it, because I'm not sure what niche it has. Maybe the sub focus punch set is worth exploring.
Breloom should be on the list too. Spore, Focus punch, sub, leech/hidden power/snatch is interesting enough to warrant a C or C+ grade imo.

 

[Adedede]

I'm not a huge fan of perish song gengar

 

[howtogetpikachuonabus]

I think skarmory should be higher. Imo its very close to steelix.
Regice is too high. And registeel is on there twice. I think registeel should be in A- rank and not in B+

On a separate note I have been following Adedede's and Kommo-o's Records and I have to say congrats to you both. I do have questions for Adedede, how do you deal with calm mind Entei and calm mind Latios? It seems like you couldn't do anything with skarmory and I don't think blissey would be able to survive an onslaught of +6 moves

 

[Adedede]

On a separate note I have been following Adedede's and Kommo-o's Records and I have to say congrats to you both. I do have questions for Adedede, how do you deal with calm mind Entei and calm mind Latios? It seems like you couldn't do anything with skarmory and I don't think blissey would be able to survive an onslaught of +6 moves

First of all, thanks!
To answer your question: the Pokémon you've mentioned are easily handleable since they have just one attacking move with 15 PPs.

Latios 5 (and Latias 5 to an extent) is really easy to face and stall out because it will always open with Thunder Wave on my Turn 1 Protect (and its Dragon Claw is really weak vs. Skarm too), and then I need just to land a Torment and switch into Blissey to safely PP stall, since a Tormented mono-attacking foe will never be able to break through a Sub/Tect Blissey.
Keep in mind that after Torment my Latios can even set-up alone on an opponent Lati@s 5 (I outspeed and have 16 Substitute PPs, it has 15 or less DC PPs and can attack just 1 out of 2 turns, so it really can't win 1v1 if Tormented), but it's always better to do the process with Blissey and to recover Skarmory from paralysis before sweeping.

Entei 1/6 are not threats at all, while due to Roar my Latios can't set up on set 6 since at +3 it will phaze away. Against Entei, I always switch into Blissey after a Protect (and every set has opened with a Fire move on Turn 1 vs. Skarm since now) and then I just need to spam Protect and Substitute: it has 14 Flamethrower PPs left (and my Latios just spamming Subs vs. a +6 Entei can make it spend another 4 PPs), so Blissey in the worst scenario has to stall just 10 PPs (and just switching between Sub/Tect she can stall 16 turns without even recovering; those turns are more than enough even not factoring free Calm Mind turns, that can leave my Subs unbroken and will so give me room to Soft-Boiled!).
I've never lost Blissey in these processes.


So, that's why they're not threatening at all for my team. Of course, when I face a Calm Mind Double Team Pressure user (like Suicune 1 and Entei 1), I won't spam Dragon Claw at +6 then, but I first PP stall the foe (at -6 Atk thanks to Growl), and then I spam WW when it'll Struggle, ready to face then a struggling foe in the rest of the match, or I can simply wait swap-stalling until they'll die Struggling vs. a set-up Latios depending on the situation in the match.

 

[Kommo-o]

I'm not actually advocating that we factor in availability, I just think it contradicts the reasoning behind doing a combined list for all facilities.

How does it contradicts the reasoning though? Availability shouldn't be a factor at all in the end since once you're able to obtain a Pokemon, they can easily make a difference compared to what are your options simply on an Emerald cartridge. The purpose is to give an idea of what people should aim for before building teams or at least give them an idea on where to start. In the end the intention is to build a pool of Pokemon where everyone can start and see which are their strengths, weaknesses, etc.

 

[Kommo-o]

I would say Suicune is S+ rank if you get a good IV one in Colosseum, A+ rank otherwise. I was estastic to get one in LG with a Bold nature with 29/1/0/0/0/0 ivs after like 6 resets, but the lack of ivs is noticeable compared to the one I got from Colosseum. I agree with your assessment on the other S tiers. I'm not a huge fan of perish song gengar or full special (because of the lack of stab), but I really think explosion Gengar with Hasty is where it's at. I used a smogon set, but someone can probably generate a better one that optimizes the attack evs. Obviously there's some that prefer the D-bond route, but I think it's worth mentioning because explosion is useful even in match ups vs fat teams that can't kill you. Like booming on Blissey and Umbreon, which I've done loads of times in my Battle Arena runs. In fact, I think it's especially useful in that format, because you can't switch and even if you don't ko the target (which is rare besides immunities and hard resists), you end the turn (which prevents double team/curse from stuff like Snorlax). There's also only 6 ghost types (Misdreavus, Dusclops, Gengar, Shedninja, Banette, Sable-eye) but I've only ever struggled with Gengar and Dusclops with double team.

You shouldn't be using a FR/LG Suicune anyways since all roamers before Emerald are glitched to 0 IVs. If you can get a Suicune with good IVs, you get one of the best Pokemon for Frontier use. Glitches are not a reason to affect ranking since if you're able to get it the most efficient version, you use it. You don't use a bad quality version of it.

Regarding Gengar, Explosion does sounds interesting for Arena use. You underestimate severely how good Perish Song is and on one of my stall teams, I got to 500 wins with it. Perish Song is a very reliable way to get rid of Double Team spammers and Curse users, specially if you use a bulky set without attacks. Gengar shouldn't be max offense anyways since the lack of STAB severely hurts its viability.

I tried a specially defensive Dusclops set in the Tower with Sub CM Latias and Suicune and got 84 wins. But Dusclops was underwhelming. It's bad hp stat really undermines it's great defenses and it's prone to getting haxed. No reliable recovery either, so it has to rely on rest or pain split. When the matchup is good, Dusclops pp stalls with the best of them, but I found it was a little too frail for my liking. I replaced it with Registeel and I'm experiencing way more success. Registeel deserves to be A or A+ rank imo.

Registeel is a good sweeper, but the thing is that its use is only limited to Battle Tower. Registeel needs its other two teammates to support it heavily and create chances for it to set-up. Without the ability of fulling set-up, it is very weak and underwhelming. Arena only has three turns and Registeel won't do a lot with such a limited short of time. On Dome, battles are 2-v-2 and only one partner is not really enough to buy opportunities on such fast paced battles where you can simply use a much better option like Metagross and deal immediate damage. On Pike, how does it stands out compared to what Metagross or Steelix can do? Are the wild Pokemon of the Pyramid letting you run away if you have Registeel on your team?

Magneton and Jolteon seem high. Trapping steels isn't an important niche and I struggle to see how Magneton is useful even with it's great resistances and good special attack. Jolteon needs to run Timid to guarantee speed ties vs Aero and it's special attack is nothing special. It's coverage is basically just t-bolt and hidden power. I guess you can t-wave or baton pass subs/petaya/liechi berry, but I don't think Baton pass is particularly useful in any facility.

I haven't personally fiddled with any of these, so I am welcome to more suggestions. Jolteon does deserve a mention for having that base +130 Speed which means that it will outspeed everything (FYI all Aerodactyl sets on Frontier are not +Spe nature and it only speed ties with Jolteon 4).

Same goes for Ninetales. Maybe grudge is interesting? I don't see how it excels defensively or offensively with that barren movepool.
Tyranitar should be on the list. No higher than B-, probably a C or C+ ranker. I don't think it's a good DD user and wouldn't be as useful as you would like in the defensive role with it's weaknesses. Not going to argue too much for it, because I'm not sure what niche it has. Maybe the sub focus punch set is worth exploring.
Breloom should be on the list too. Spore, Focus punch, sub, leech/hidden power/snatch is interesting enough to warrant a C or C+ grade imo.

Ninetales definitely deserves more exploration. It gains access to Grudge and Charm which are worthy of experimenting with it already. Thanks for the suggestion!

I definitely forgot to add Tyranitar but mostly because I was focused on Lv.50 only. It could definitely be added at least for that format but not sure where it could be ranked. I did have previous runs on Open Level with Taunt & Dragon Dance and I really was impressed with how good it is. It shuts down pretty much any Psychic type so it definitely has its niche.

Breloom is pretty weak. Average Speed, most normal types like Ursaring have Aerial Ace as coverage moves and weakness to Psychic is a huge hindrance along with pitiful defenses. I don't think Breloom deserves a high rating since it requires too much set-up and relies on the turns it can buy with Spore.

 

[Adedede]

wtset I had a few doubts about the direction that this list should have taken, but at the end It aims to be as useful as it can be for new players trying to understand what Pokémon may be worth to have while facing the Frontier.

Of course every facility has its own tierlist (otherwise I would have killed somebody for real for those Moltres/Skarm rankings), but in general I think that it has reached its purpose: mark strongest Pokémon overall and quickly explain why they're ranked there.

Availability is a strong issue indeed, since of course having a good Swampert is easier than having an XD Moltres, and I think that an "in-game" section should be added for who's trying to reach Golds without other retails, but this is just a detail.


Also, I'm working on a dedicated Tower script, that won't be a Power ranking but something like "what archetypes are effective/why/what should I always check/what roles I must cover/what are the best Pokémons for every of those roles".
This will only take a pure competitive approach, so it'll have a different target compared to the previous overall Frontier list.
Kommo already did something similar in the past, but I've in mind something a bit different, also factoring that the prediction I made about how my Protect/Torment/Roar Sturdy would have changed the metagame has lately become true, and I think that teambuilding should be directed in this way.

Still a wip, if I'll be convinced by my work I'll post it soon

 

[Kommo-o]

I think skarmory should be higher. Imo its very close to steelix.
Regice is too high. And registeel is on there twice. I think registeel should be in A- rank and not in B+

On a separate note I have been following Adedede's and Kommo-o's Records and I have to say congrats to you both. I do have questions for Adedede, how do you deal with calm mind Entei and calm mind Latios? It seems like you couldn't do anything with skarmory and I don't think blissey would be able to survive an onslaught of +6 moves

I agree, Skarmory should be close to Steelix and I changed its place to A because in the end, while Tower is the best place for Skarmory to be used, I don't see its niche for the other facilities. The tower usage is worth enough for it though.

Thanks for noticing the typo on Registeel, got that fixed now! I can somewhat agree to Registeel being movable but it's main selling point is being a very good win-con for Tower which is more than good enough if you build around it like I did with DDW.

 

[submenceisop]

You shouldn't be using a FR/LG Suicune anyways since all roamers before Emerald are glitched to 0 IVs. If you can get a Suicune with good IVs, you get one of the best Pokemon for Frontier use. Glitches are not a reason to affect ranking since if you're able to get it the most efficient version, you use it. You don't use a bad quality version of it.

Regarding Gengar, Explosion does sounds interesting for Arena use. You underestimate severely how good Perish Song is and on one of my stall teams, I got to 500 wins with it. Perish Song is a very reliable way to get rid of Double Team spammers and Curse users, specially if you use a bulky set without attacks. Gengar shouldn't be max offense anyways since the lack of STAB severely hurts its viability.



Registeel is a good sweeper, but the thing is that its use is only limited to Battle Tower. Registeel needs its other two teammates to support it heavily and create chances for it to set-up. Without the ability of fulling set-up, it is very weak and underwhelming. Arena only has three turns and Registeel won't do a lot with such a limited short of time. On Dome, battles are 2-v-2 and only one partner is not really enough to buy opportunities on such fast paced battles where you can simply use a much better option like Metagross and deal immediate damage. On Pike, how does it stands out compared to what Metagross or Steelix can do? Are the wild Pokemon of the Pyramid letting you run away if you have Registeel on your team?



I haven't personally fiddled with any of these, so I am welcome to more suggestions. Jolteon does deserve a mention for having that base +130 Speed which means that it will outspeed everything (FYI all Aerodactyl sets on Frontier are not +Spe nature and it only speed ties with Jolteon 4).



Ninetales definitely deserves more exploration. It gains access to Grudge and Charm which are worthy of experimenting with it already. Thanks for the suggestion!

I definitely forgot to add Tyranitar but mostly because I was focused on Lv.50 only. It could definitely be added at least for that format but not sure where it could be ranked. I did have previous runs on Open Level with Taunt & Dragon Dance and I really was impressed with how good it is. It shuts down pretty much any Psychic type so it definitely has its niche.

Breloom is pretty weak. Average Speed, most normal types like Ursaring have Aerial Ace as coverage moves and weakness to Psychic is a huge hindrance along with pitiful defenses. I don't think Breloom deserves a high rating since it requires too much set-up and relies on the turns it can buy with Spore.

Fair points about Perish song dealing with double team spammers. I definitely agree that it's a set that functions well in the Dome. Good point about Registeel not doing so hot in other formats. It's definitely outclassed in other facilities, but it's excellent in the Tower. I'm running a specially defensive support set in the Tower and it's been a nice third member in my Dragon/Water/Steel trio. I'll post the set when my streak reaches a sufficient length. I did forget that Aerodactly don't run + speed. Remembering this, Jolteon can afford to run Modest if you are okay speed tying Crobat 3/4 and non timid Jolteon. Still, I'm wary of it's ranking, because it doesn't hit particularly hard, doesn't have bulk and can't boost.

Jolly max speed Breloom hits 262 speed and out speeds every relevant normal type besides Kanga, one variant of Tauros and some variants of Slaking. Regarding major battles, Loom outspeeds Tucker's Charizard, Latias, Salamence, Palace Suicune, Palace 1 Slaking, Palace Arcanine, Anabel's Entei, Greta's Heracross and Greta's Gengar(who you can't really hit besides leech seed, but at least you can spore it turn 1. Also destroys Brandon's team 1. I never bothered to switch my team out for the pyramid, but if I did, Loom would function similar to Heracross in this format, at least for the early rounds. You can spore to potentially make running from wild mons easier and Stab focus punch obviously hits hard. Breloom is certainly a niche mon, but it's no worse than C if Hitmonlee is in it too. Hitmonlee for instance is outclassed as a reversal user by Heracross or Medi and outclassed as a bulky fighting type by Machamp. You can argue that's why it's at C, but why bother using it if it brings nothing different to the table? Even comparing to Venusaur, which also shares a typing with Breloom, Loom boasts a much better sleep move in spore over sleep powder. Both sets lose to faster water types with ice beam such as starmie, even Venu unless you run the sub optimal giga drain. No one runs offensive Venu either, so at least Breloom's speed might actually let it cripple something before it takes a hit.
If you aren't that convinced, I'll try a run with it in the Dome or Arena, which are probably it's best facilities.

 

[wtset]

Kommo-o After reading the detailed write-ups, where you explain in which facilities exactly the pokemon are good etc I think I know understand better what the list is going for. I guess what put me off is that it didn't really correspond to my own experience as a new player. I tried to tackle one facility at a time and always build a specific team for a given facility (I would have never thought of first building a collection of pokemon that work well on the whole facility) so I didn't really see how the list would have benefitted this approac. But with the detailed write-ups it probably works anyways, altough I think I would still prefer a separate list for each facility.

Adedede really excited to read that tower script when it's finished!

On a different note, my tower streak ended at 657 wins. I lost to a Dugtrio-3 killing Linoone on Turn 1 with Fissure and then double-critting through Latios with Double-Edge (swap stalling wasn't an option because of Arena Trap). Dugtrio should definitely be added to my threatlist as well.

Picture Proof

 

[Kommo-o]

Kommo-o After reading the detailed write-ups, where you explain in which facilities exactly the pokemon are good etc I think I know understand better what the list is going for. I guess what put me off is that it didn't really correspond to my own experience as a new player. I tried to tackle one facility at a time and always build a specific team for a given facility (I would have never thought of first building a collection of pokemon that work well on the whole facility) so I didn't really see how the list would have benefitted this approac. But with the detailed write-ups it probably works anyways, altough I think I would still prefer a separate list for each facility.

Adedede really excited to read that tower script when it's finished!

On a different note, my tower streak ended at 657 wins. I lost to a Dugtrio-3 killing Linoone on Turn 1 with Fissure and then double-critting through Latios with Double-Edge (swap stalling wasn't an option because of Arena Trap). Dugtrio should definitely be added to my threatlist as well.

Picture Proof

View attachment 243438

I appreciate your feedback! I did wrote analysis on the Pokemon in the top ranks to describe much better on what facilities they can excel with that in mind. I don't mind if someone else writes something similar facility-wise, just making a tierlist for Gen 3 Frontier overall. Also rip on your streak, it was a good run regardless!

 

[GOSCIZOR]

Hello everyone,
I’m very excited to announce that Team ILIASTER is back and this time it has expanded! In this post I will present to you Team ILIASTER EX.

After my Dome Doubles streak ended, I felt that there were still many things I want to try out. In my opinion Double Battles are given less attention in the 3rd Generation than they deserve, both competitively and in the Battle Frontier. Personally I appreciate how complicated and challenging they can be and I like the immense new possibilities they offer. This time I decided to try out Battle Tower Doubles (lvl 100). My favorite playing style involves stalling and setup, but so far I could not think of an effective stalling strategy for Doubles. Thus I stick to the best strategy I could think of, consisting of Explosion (see Team ILIASTER) and Perish Song. It’s a kind of hybrid team that has both aggressive and some stall elements.

Team & Strategy

As I mentioned, the point of this team is to KO the opponent’s first 2 Pokemon with Explosion, while I only sacrifice one of my leading Pokemon. After that the perish singer comes in and makes sure that the 2 remaining Pokemon will go down in 3 turns.

MEKLORD (Metagross) @ Salac Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 52 HP / 252 Atk / 204 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Endure
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Shadow Ball

Metagross has Endure instead of Choice Band, because it has proven to work better. Big thanks to Adedede for the idea! Against 2 fast and powerful opponents it’s sometimes better to Endure and outspeed them both in the next turn than to make the one flinch with Fake Out and risk having Metagross KO’ed by the other. Watch out for burns though! I lost once due to a burn from Fire Blast, so ever since that happened, I've been using Fake Out on Fire Blast or Flamethrower users (Overheat doesn't burn)! Shadow Ball is for the Ghost types and Earthquake for the durable steel and rock types. Its speed investment lets it outspeed everything after the boost, except some Jolteon and Crobat.

EREBOS (Sableye) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD
Bold Nature
- Fake Out
- Protect
- Helping Hand
- Knock Off

Sableye is there for utility as it can’t be hit by Explosion and learns Fake Out. This time it also carries Knock Off in order to cripple the annoying Flareon and other Quick Claw holders. Helping Hand is another interesting addition that can boost Earthquake and even Explosion against types that resist it. It OHKO's the likes of Tyranitar, Skarmory, Forretress, Scizor that otherwise survive Explosion. It can even OHKO Metagross sometimes!

LASS (Lapras) (F) @ Bright Powder
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 196 HP / 60 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Perish Song
- Protect
- Waterfall
- Ice Beam

Lapras comes in after Metagross has gone down. In the best scenario the opponent will only have 2 remaining Pokemon. It immediately uses Perish Song, while Sableye protects! It’s essential to protect with Sableye, because it can’t afford to go down before Perish Song, because the song would affect my last party member too. Lapras is the perfect perish singer for this team in my opinion. At first I used Gengar and later Misdreavous, but I kept losing, because they could not stick around until the last turn. Lapras’ excellent defenses and wondrous ability let it survive longer. Waterfall and Ice Beam are for those Rock and Steel types who manage to live through Explosion. Without Special Attack investment they are rather weak, but Helping Hand can boost them up. These 2 attacking moves also help against threatening Pokemon that could take down Sableye or Lapras before the end of the countdown.

APORIA (Latios) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt
- Dragon Claw

Latios is the last party member and it usually doesn’t have to fight. If it must battle, I am probably in a bad situation. In some (not) rare cases Metagross has to switch out. This happens against unfavorable match-ups, for example when the opponent sends out one Pokemon that can’t go down with Explosion and a 2nd one that is unaffected by Earthquake. This situation has occurred many times and I have caught it once on camera during my streak recording.

Streak sample (warning: it’s very long. Watch at max playback speed).

Loss

I’ve had quite a few close battles, even after finalizing this team mostly due to misplaying. I was convinced the team has no weak, unless… hax! After my 297th win hax finally happened! I won't lie... I enjoyed it; that's what I've been playing for! :D

I lost against Psychic Stanly who opened with Gardevoir and Espeon. The latter managed to evade the Explosion and started Calm Minding. His 3rd Pokemon was Entei. I immediately went for Lapras. Sadly Lapras could not OHKO it with boosted Waterfall. Entei used Double Team and Espeon Attract on Lapras. I switched in Latios that missed Dragon Claw and was KO’ed by Espeon’s Bite. Finally Lapras took down both Entei and Stanly’s last Pokemon (Xatu), but it was obvious that I could not win against Espeon.

The hax here was definitely not as impressive as in other cases, when I still managed to win, but this time it was pretty effective against my team. I realized that I have to get leading Espeon out of the way ASAP with Shadow Ball, because I have no other way to counter it later, if it somehow evades Explosion.

If you want to see more breath-taking hax, please watch this battle! I guess, the game decided to ruin my streak from this point onward! :D

Loss recording:

 

[submenceisop]

Reporting an ongoing 35 win streak at the Battle Dome with a Latios, Suicune and Breloom team.

Latios is usually the lead, with good coverage and speed. Mine runs modest, which speed ties with Gengar, but the power difference allows me to 2ko fat waters. Otherwise, Timid with 220 evs would be a nice option.

Shout out to Thomaz for helping me with the Suicune in Colosseum. It's the standard Team Azure one. I changed protect to rest, but the ev spread is the same. Suicune has the crazy bulk to set up and pp stall in the worst case scenarios and is my secondary win condition. I only ever sit this thing against electric types and maybe grass types.

I usually go with Latios and Suicune in most matchups, but I choose Breloom when I see fat stuff like Umbreon, Snorlax, Regis, and Blissey, which give Latios and Suicune a hard time. This thing destroys slow teams, who can only sit there helpless while I sap health with leech or focus punch. Jolly is absolutely necessary as it allows you to out speed Tucker's Latias. The two clips below show Breloom soloing Tucker. Super straight forward to use. Sequence is: Spore, Sub, Focus punch in most cases, leech first if they resist focus punch. Mons with Lum and Chesto Berry like Milotic can be really annoying to face, so it's also important to keep that in mind. Bright powder is the item of choice because this thing is frail and it can't make good use of any other item. As a side note, I bred this one with a 31 hp iv, but it might be optimal to run one with 30 hp to give you an odd number to get 4 substitutes instead of 3.

https://pokepast.es/521aa0fbc13f4fe1

https://kapwi.ng/c/Tx3HJuge Breloom smash version 1 with Pert lead.

https://kapwi.ng/c/JpthiG4Z Breloom smash version 2 with Metagross lead.

Lost at 39 to bulk up Heracross with Lum berry. Unfortunate. I think I'll try perish song Gengar next instead of breloom.

 

[Ezio]

G'day everyone,
So this will be my first post in this thread :) I already shared my success (if you want to consider it as such) on Discord, but I wanted to give a little insight on this team. With this team I'm currently sitting at 50 consecutive wins in the Battle Dome (Single Battles ; Lv 100 -> Open Lv ; on retail).
So before actually talking about the team, I'll just say one more thing:
Huge thanks to Valentino23 , Kommo-o and Adedede for helping me to build this team, providing me with useful information and giving their opinions on movesets, EV spreads etc. to improve my team.

Team Building Process

When I seriously started to think about a good team, there was one pokemon in particular I definetly wanted to use: Latias. Even before starting this journey, Latias helped me in almost any facility to get the gold symbol. I just liked the idea of a CM user which has recover, and with max HP investment, this thing is very bulky aswell. To complete the moveset, I chose surf and dragon claw as her attacking moves.. Good coverage and decent damage at the same time. With a little bit of SpAtk investment, Latias is able to kill Tuckers Swampert at +6. However, a +6 surf does not have the guarantee to kill his Metagross.
For the other 2 pokemon, it wasn't that easy.. Valentino instantly said that Slaking is an absolute beast in the dome, and I can do nothing more but agree with him. Slaking can take out most of the mons with one hit, but if not, these mons may become a threat (depending on the mon itself and it's moveset, but I'll get to that later). 3 out of 4 moves are pretty clear imo.. Double-Edge as his reliable STAB, EQ and Shadow Ball are essential coverage moves, and for the 4th move I decided to go with Hyper Beam. Yes, it has a 10% chance to miss.. But I rather take that risk than losing against a OHKO-Move Walrein / Lapras because the Double-Edge didn't kill.
For my last free spot, I wanted a fast pokemon, a fast sweeper which can do some really good damage while still being able to 'setup' in a funny way. And for that spot, I chose Gengar. Gengar was the mon to round off my team: A switch-in into ground, normal and fighting type moves, a pokemon to deal good damage from turn 1 and onwards, while having really good speed aswell. As my first moveset, I chose Ice punch, Tbolt, Focus punch and substitute. The focus punch was supposed for the normal type pokemon which can't touch my gengar in anyway when I'm behind a sub. Ice punch and Tbolt are pretty clear as they're the typical 'BoltBeam' coverage, but with Ice punch instead of Ice beam. The substitute however gave me an opportunity to use a cool item on Gengar: the Petaya berry. This berry gives your pokemon a +1 boost in SpAtk, when the HP is at 25% or lower.. And since my Gengar had 261 HP, I'm able to get out 4 substitutes, after that I'm at 1HP and my Gengar has a +1 boost.

Latias Lum Berry (Timid)
IV's: 31/29/28/30/30/31
Stats: 364/174/214/263/296/341
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Dragon Claw
- Surf

Slaking Choice Band (Jolly)
IV's: 31/31/31/21/31/31
Stats: 442/419/236/194/166/328
- Shadow Ball
- Earthquake
- Double-Edge
- Hyper Beam

Gengar Petaya Berry (Hasty)
IV's: 31/16/31/31/31/31
Stats: 261/151/140/359/196/341
- Ice Punch
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute
- Focus-Punch

That was my first team. However, I noticed that I never really used Focus Punch on Gengar. So I decided to change the move, and the only one coming to my mind was Destiny Bond. With Destiny Bond, I'm pretty much always able to win the 1 vs 1 with Gengar, and since I have the highest tournament rank, I always win the judgement if I force a double KO with Gengar, which is pretty cool. Furthermore, it really helps against the threats of this team. By changing the move, the hasty nature wasn't needed anymore, so I bred another Gengar with the same stats, but with a Timid nature.

After that change, I kept that team for at least one week like that. But I noticed that I might struggle against Tucker. When I lead with Latias, Tucker either leads with Swampert (which basically is a free-win because I'm able to go to +6 while his Swampert always uses Mirror Coat) or with Metagross. Metagross is able to win with a bit of luck. My strategy was to go for a CM in turn 1 since Metagross always protects in the first turn. After that, I need to hit one +1 surf and an EQ from Slaking to take out Metagross. And that was a problem. Even though my Slaking is a 3HKO to Meta's Meteor Mash, Latias dies to a crit (which means I would have to go for Hyper Beam on Slaking since EQ wouldn't harm Tuckers 2nd mon, Latias). And when Metagross gets an attack boost, Slaking dies to 2 Meteor Mashes. Another thing which makes it difficult for Slaking is the fact that Metagross can protect against Slaking, which makes it even worse. In that case, I'd just have to pray that he successfully gets a double protect so Slaking can hit the EQ after the 2nd protect. Giving Metagross a Quick Claw doesn't make this match any easier.
The next change I did was teaching Latias Reflect over Surf. By doing that, it can take Metagross' MM a bit better, but it's still vulnerable to a crit and to the 10% chance of an attack boost. Furthermore, I have to go +2 with Latias since a +1 DC doesn't deal enough damage for Slaking to OHKO Meta with an EQ.
Another move I considered instead of Surf was Roar, but for the other tournament matches, Reflect is in my opinion better than Roar since it gives Latias the possibility to setup on mons which normally do good damage with their physical attacks.

Before doing a radical final change, I adjusted my Gengar by giving it a Modest nature. Why? Well, all Pokemon in the Dome have 3 IV's, and by giving Gengar a Modest nature instead of a Timid nature, it is basically a better damage output rather than an unnecessary speed advantage.

The last change I made was kinda sad for me since I wanted to do a good run with Latias, but I realized that I need something to reliably win against Tucker. The last change I did was swapping Latias for my new Mon, Gyarados.
Gyarados is probably the Pokemon to round off my team. It resists Meta's MM, it is a setup sweeper and pretty much the team member I needed.

Edit: Adedede suggested to also lower my Slaking's Speed, which does make sense.. At 313 speed, it outspeeds the 340 speed tier.. Instead of 252 speed EV's, there are now 196 speed EV's.. It's HP is now 441 instead of 442, and the SpDef is now 181 instead of 166 (60 SpDef EV)
Cheers Mate :^)

My Team

Clara - Slaking (f) Choice Band (Jolly)
IV's: 31/31/31/21/31/31
Stats: 441/419/236/194/181/313
Shiny: Yes
- Shadow Ball
- Earthquake
- Double-Edge
- Hyper Beam

Mara - Gengar (f) Petaya Berry (Modest)
IV's: 31/16/31/31/31/31
Stats: 261/135/156/394/193/313
Shiny: Yes
- Ice Punch
- Thunderbolt
- Destiny Bond
- Substitute

Lisanne - Gyarados (f) Lum Berry (Adamant)
IV's: 31/31/31/18/30/30
Stats: 394/349/194/128/235/229
Shiny: Yes
- Dragon Dance
- HP Fly (Power: 70)
- EQ
- Substitute

The strategy behind this team

For 90% of the battles, I use Slaking and Gengar. Gyarados however is used for some special pokemon where Gengar and Slaking might struggle to win. In most of the cases, I lead with Slaking and take Gengar as my #2 pokemon. The idea is to OHKO the enemies first pokemon with Slaking in turn 1, then it depends what the 2nd pokemon is. If it can be a QC user, but it can be OHKO'd by Slaking, switch out to Gengar. If you don't get the kill with Destiny Bond, just use Slaking to secure the win. There are some exceptions, but we'll get to them later. The combination of a normal-type and a ghost-type pokemon is insane! You can get a free Gengar switch-in against most normal types since they'll probably go for a normal type attack or an EQ.
While doing more and more tournaments, I established certain 'rules' against some pokemon.
One of them is e.g.: Always go for a DE against Machamp and Hariyama, they are always an OHKO.
I once lost against an endure + flail Dodrio, so I said: I have to take Gengar as my #1 or #2 Mon against a team where a potential flail / reversal pokemon is.
So Slaking's job is pretty clear, what about Gengar?
If I lead with Gengar, it's job is to kill the enemies first mon and DBond against the 2nd mon. But that's not very often the case. Instead, I switch Gengar into the 2nd mon, use the substitute to protect myself from a potential paralysis and to lose HP so my DBond will be successful.
I almost never use Gyara because it is vulnerable to electric type moves. Even if it is able to get some setup, the combination of Slaking + Gengar is in most cases the better way to go.

Against Tucker, the strategy is pretty much straight forward: Start with Gyara, and go for the substitute. When the sub is standing, go for DD. Swamperts Ice Beam is not able to destroy my sub. When I'm at +2, it is a 2HKO with HP Fly. However, sometimes Swampert goes for Mirror Coat which gives me a free opportunity to continue my setup and go even higher: Metagross will die to a +3 EQ, and Latias will be a 2HKO at +2.
Since I already am at 50 consecutive wins, I know how I am supposed to play my team, what to do in every situation, when to switch to Gengar etc. .
But I'm sure that everyone can be able to reach a good streak with that team.

Threatlist

Basically any mon which will not be OHKO'd by Slakings EQ, Shadow Ball and Double-Edge are a threat.
The most dangerous ones are:
- Lapras
- Walrein
- Wailord
- Snorlax
- Regirock
- Registeel
- Tyranitar

Some of them are even more dangerous since they might be able to get some serious hax and QC OHKO me, such as Lapras, Walrein and Wailord. Against Lapras, Walrein and Snorlax, I always go for a Hyper Beam. If it misses, I have to improvise. Either I'll just stay in (when I know what moveset the enemy has) or I switch to Gengar and use DBond. If I lead with Slaking and he/she leads with Wailord, I immediatly switch to Gengar. Against TTar, I always go for the EQ. Against some TTars, it's a 100% OHKO, but against others, there is a chance that is may survive (would have to do the calcs again, but I think for these sets its a 75% chance to OHKO).
Sometimes you can use the enemy team preview option to your advantage, especially for me when I have to battle against Registeel or Regirock. If the battle style says 'Willing to risk total disaster at times', one of their pokemon knows Explosion / DBond / Perish Song. If thats the case, I'll try to force a DBond trade between the Regi and my Gengar. If they don't have Explosion, I go for EQ and adapt to what it uses.

Proof

If you have questions, feel free to ask :^)

 

[Adedede]

Ok, since there's a renewed interest in Dome (finally!), I want to make a quick post about updated speedtier in Dome.

Since every opponent in this facility has just 3 IVs Pokémon, every offensive/defensive calc gains huge advantages for the player.
That's also true for speedtier, because now some good Pokémon with middling Speed (Suicune and Moltres for example) can outspeed and stall a completely new range of opponents, while monstrous wallbreakers like Slaking can now shine for real and outpace almost every foe.

Every player must have this knowledge approaching at the Dome, since every EV invested to outspeed/outdamage 31 IVs foes can be totally wasted and better used in other stats, tanking now unexpected hits or scoring KOs on too bulky enemies before.

Updated Dome Lv.50 Speedtier (3 IVs)

184 (200)
Jolteon-4

168 (182)
Crobat-3, Crobat-4, Jolteon-1

166 (180)
Ninjask-1, Ninjask-2

158 (172)
Dugtrio-1, Dugtrio-2, Dugtrio-3, Dugtrio-4, Sceptile-1, Sceptile-2, Sceptile-4, Sneasel-2

157 (171)
Aerodactyl-1, Aerodactyl-2

153 (167)
Raikou-1, Raikou-2, Raikou-3, Raikou-4, Starmie-3, Starmie-4, Starmie-5, Starmie-7, Starmie-8

150 (166)
Gengar1

148 (162)
Espeon-2, Espeon-3, Espeon-4, Gengar-2, Gengar-3, Gengar-4, Gengar-5, Gengar-6, Gengar-7, Gengar-8, Tauros-1

147 (161)
Sceptile-3

146 (160)
Electrode-2, Electrode-3, Electrode-4

143 (157)
Electabuzz-3, Manectric-1, Manectric-2, Manectric-3, Manectric-4, Scyther-2

140 (156)
Kangaskhan-3

138 (152)
Charizard-1, Charizard-2, Charizard-3, Dodrio-1, Dodrio-2, Dodrio-3, Dodrio-4, Entei-1, Entei-2, Entei-3, Entei-4, Fearow-1, Fearow-2, Fearow-3, Flygon-1, Flygon-2, Ninetales-1, Ninetales-2, Ninetales-3, Ninetales-4, Raichu-1, Raichu-3, Salamence-1, Salamence-7, Salamence-8, Typhlosion-1, Typhlosion-3, Zapdos-1, Zapdos-2

137 (151)
Espeon-1, Latias-8, Latios-8

136 (150)
Aerodactyl-3, Aerodactyl-4, Crobat-1, Crobat-2, Heracross-2, Jolteon-2, Jolteon-3, Misdreavus-4, Pinsir-2

134 (149)
Xatu-3

133 (147)
Arcanine-1, Arcanine-2, Arcanine-3, Arcanine-4, Houndoom-2, Houndoom-3, Houndoom-4

132 (146)
Electabuzz-2, Rapidash-2, Rapidash-3, Rapidash-4

131 (144)
Electrode-1

129 (145)
Gardevoir-6, Magmar-2, Meganium-3, Pidgeot-2

128 (142)
Kangaskhan-4, Moltres-3, Moltres-5, Venomoth-2, Zangoose-2

127 (141)
Charizard-4, Flygon-3, Flygon-4, Raichu-1, Rapidash-1, Salamence-2, Tentacruel-3, Typhlosion-2, Typhlosion-4, Zapdos-3

126 (140)
Alakazam-1, Alakazam-2, Alakazam-3, Alakazam-4

123 (137)
Articuno-1, Golduck-4, Heracross-3, Heracross-4, Suicune-1, Suicune-3, Suicune-4

122 (136)
Houndoom-1, Sharpedo-2

121 (135)
Starmie-1, Starmie-2, Starmie-6

118 (132-134)
Breloom-1, Blaziken-3, Gardevoir-3, Gardevoir-4, Gardevoir-8, Glalie-2, Medicham-1, Medicham-2, Medicham-3

117 (133)
Gardevoir-1, Gyarados-2

116 (130)
Jumpluff-2, Latias-1, Latias-2, Latias-3, Latias-4, Latias-5, Latias-6, Latias-7, Latios-1, Latios-2, Latios-3, Latios-4, Latios-5, Latios-6, Latios-7, Tauros-2, Tauros-3, Tauros-4

113 (128)
Flareon-3

113 (127)
Absol-2

112 (126)
Golduck-2

111 (125)
Electabuzz-4

107 (123)
Lapras-2

108 (122)
Breloom-2, Breloom-3, Breloom-4, Delcatty-2, Metagross-5

107 (121)
Gardevoir-5, Glalie-3

106 (120)
Exploud-3, Fearow-4, Miltank-1, Miltank-2, Miltank-3, Miltank-4, Raichu-4, Salamence-3, Salamence-4, Salamence-5, Salamence-6, Slaking-1, Slaking-2, Slaking-3, Slaking-4, Tentacruel-1, Tentacruel-2, Tentacruel-4, Zapdos-4

105 (119)
Lanturn-3, Lanturn-4

101 (115)
Jynx-1, Jynx-2, Jynx-3, Jynx-4, Xatu-1, Xatu-2, Xatu-4

99 (113)
Magmar-3, Magmar-4

97 (111)
Metagross-1, Metagross-2, Metagross-3, Metagross-8

96 (112)
Donphan-2, Electabuzz-1

96 (110)
Kangaskhan-1, Kangaskhan-2, Moltres-1, Moltres-2, Mr. Mime-2, Mr. Mime-3, Mr. Mime-4

91 (105)
Articuno-2, Articuno-3, Articuno-4, Golduck-3, Heracross-1, Kingdra-1, Kingdra-2, Kingdra-3, Kingdra-4, Misdreavus-1, Misdreavus-2, Misdreavus-3, Nidoking-1, Nidoking-2, Nidoking-3, Nidoking-4, Suicune-2

89 (102)
Magmar-1

87 (101)
Gyarados-1, Gyarados-3, Gyarados-4, Milotic-1, Milotic-2, Milotic-3, Milotic-4, Shedinja-1

86 (100)
Altaria-1, Altaria-2, Altaria-3, Altaria-4, Blaziken-1, Blaziken-2, Blaziken-4, Gardevoir-2, Gardevoir-7, Glalie-1, Glalie-4, Medicham-4, Meganium-1, Meganium-2, Meganium-4, Shiftry-2, Shiftry-3, Shiftry-4, Venusaur-2, Venusaur-3, Venusaur-4

86 (99)
Moltres-4, Mr. Mime-1

84 (98)
Blastoise-1, Blatoise-3, Blastoise-4, Feraligatr-3, Feraligatr-4

83 (97)
Marowak-2, Marowak-3, Marowak-4

82 (96)
Nidoqueen-1, Nidoqueen-2, Nidoqueen-3, Nidoqueen-4, Ursaring-3

81 (94-95)
Golduck-, Claydol-1, Claydol-2, Claydol-3, Claydol-4, Kingler-2

76 (90)
Cloyster-2, Dewgong-2, Dewgong-3, Dewgong-4, Ludicolo-2, Ludicolo-3, Ludicolo-4, Mantine-2, Metagross-4, Metagross-6, Metagross-7, Shiftry-1, Skarmory-1, Skarmory-2, Skarmory-3, Skarmory-4, Venusaur-1, Victreebel-2, Victreebel-3, Victreebel-4

75 (88)
Blastoise-2, Feraligatr-1, Feraligatr-2, Exploud-1, Exploud-2, Exploud-4, Seaking-2

73 (87)
Hypno-2, Hypno-3, Hypno-4, Lanturn-2

71 (85)
Flareon-1, Seviper-2, Scizor-1, Scizor-2, Scizor-3, Scizor-4, Umbreon-1, Umbreon-2, Umbreon-3, Umbreon-4, Vaporeon-1, Vaporeon-2, Vaporeon-3, Vaporeon-4, Walrein-2, Walrein-3

68 (81)
Dewgong-1, Ludicolo-1, Victreebel-1

66 (80)
Clefable-2, Clefable-3, Clefable-4, Lapras-1, Lapras-3, Lapras-4, Lapras-5, Lapras-6, Lapras-7, Lapras-8, Porygon2-1, Porygon2-2, Porygon2-3, Porygon2-4, Swampert-1, Swampert-2, Wailord-2, Wailord-3, Wailord-4, Weezing-1, Weezing-2, Weezing-3, Weezing-4, Whiscash-1, Whiscash-2, Whiscash-3

65 (78)
Hypno-1, Lanturn-1

63 (76)
Flareon-2, Flareon-4, Walrein-1, Walrein-4

61 (75)
Ampharos-2, Ampharos-3, Ampharos-4, Blissey-1, Blissey-2, Blissey-3, Blissey-4, Cacturne-2, Crawdaunt-2, Exeggutor-2, Exeggutor-3, Exeggutor-4, Machamp-1, Machamp-2, Machamp-3, Machamp-4, Machamp-5, Machamp-6, Machamp-7, Machamp-8, Ursaring-1, Ursaring-2, Ursaring-4, Ursaring-5, Ursaring-6, Ursaring-7, Ursaring-8

59 (72)
Clefable-1, Masquerain-2, Swampert-3, Swampert-4, Wailord-1, Whiscash-4

56 (70)
Aggron-1, Aggron-2, Aggron-3, Aggron-4, Bellossom-2, Donphan-1, Donphan-3, Donphan-4, Hariyama-1, Hariyama-3, Hariyama-4, Muk-1, Muk-2, Regirock-1, Regirock-2, Regirock-3, Regirock-4, Regice-1, Regice-4, Registeel-1, Registeel-3, Registeel-4, Vileplume-1, Vileplume-2, Vileplume-3

54 (67)
Ampharos-1, Exeggutor-1, Relicanth-2

51 (65)
Armaldo-1, Armaldo-2, Armaldo-3, Armaldo-4, Golem-1, Golem-2, Golem-3, Golem-4, Gorebyss-2, Granbull-1, Granbull-3, Huntail-2, Marowak-1, Octillery-2, Wigglytuff-2

51 (64)
Tropius-2

50 (63)
Chansey-2, Cradily-2, Cradily-3, Cradily-4, Hariyama-2, Muk-3, Muk-4, Regice-2, Regice-3, Registeel-2, Vileplume-4

46 (60)
Forretress-1, Forretress-2, Forretress-4, Kecleon-2, Rhydon-1, Rhydon-2, Rhydon-3, Rhydon-4

45 (58)
Dunsparce-2, Granbull-2, Granbull-4

44 (57)
Cradily-1

41 (55)
Quagsire-1, Quagsire-3

41 (54)
Forretress-3, Porygon-2

39 (53)
Wobbuffet1, Wobbuffet2

36 (50)
Parasect-2, Slowbro-2, Slowking-2, Slowking-4, Snorlax-1, Snorlax-2, Snorlax-3, Snorlax-4, Snorlax-5, Snorlax06, Snorlax-7, Snorlax-8, Steelix-1, Steelix-2, Steelix-3, Steelix-4

36 (49)
Quagsire-2, Quagsire-4

31 (45)
Dusclops-1, Dusclops-2, Dusclops-3, Dusclops-4, Slowbro-1, Slowbro-3, Slowbro-4, Slowking-1, Slowking-3, Sunflora-2

11 (25)
Shuckle-2, Shuckle-3, Shuckle-4

9 (22)
Shuckle1

Consequences of "IVs glitch"

There are now some quick considerations about the updated speedtier:

• BST 100 Spe Pokémon are the winners without doubts: with a Positive Nature and 196 Spe EVs, they can reach what before was the "blessed 173 speedtier", now set at 159. This allows them to outpace BST 120 Spe 255 EVs opponents (!) and everything slower, basically being outsped only by some Jolteon and Crobat sets. Yes, Slaking is a complete monster;
• Strongest Pressure users sadly have a middling Spe, but thanks to this glitch they can really shine in Dome: Suicune with 244+ Spe EVs and a Timid nature can reach 149 Spe, outspeeding BST 110 Spe 255 EVs foes (most notably Espeon and Gengar!), while Moltres with a Timid nature and 236+ Spe EVs can reach 154, outspeeding and beating 1v1 also enemy Raikou and Starmie(!);
• Sadly, BST 110 Spe like Gengar and Lati@s don't achieve nothing really impressive outside of the possibility to reach the aformentioned "new blessed tier" of 159 Spe with a Neutral Spe Nature, while in other facilities they need a +Spe one;
• Even with 3 Spe IVs, Jolteon 4 remains a devilish presence: with 184 Spe, even a Positive Nature 115 BST Spe 252+ EVs Pokémon will fail to outspeed, falling "just" at 183. Of course, now a BST 120 Spe Poké can outpace this foe, but at my eyes it still remains a strong threat to face without a blank defensive counter.

At this point, every player that wants to challenge the Dome must consider these aspects while teambuilding and preparing gameplans.
"IVs glitch" and tie rule make Dome the most player-friendly and enjoyable facility in my opinion, so I hope to see interesting ideas and streaks soon!

 

[Nix_Hex]

Catching up on the last two pages and I have some words regarding tiering.

Availability speaks literally zero about how well the Pokemon performs in battle, and thus shouldn't be considered for a tiering list. If I'm purely a retail player and I see Moltres in S+ but it needs Morning Sun or W-o-W, it's my responsibility to decide whether or not it's worth the time investment for the XD playthrough and whether I should learn2rng or settle for soft reset. Technically the only requirement for Moltres specifically to do its job is +Speed nature with 31 IVs, so I can even aim for Jolly, Hasty, or Naive thus widening my options on what to settle for. If I don't have the time for ANY of this, I cut my losses and find something else to use instead of Moltres. Every Pokemon is different, but the same thought process applies.

 

[Kommo-o]

Catching up on the last two pages and I have some words regarding tiering.

Availability speaks literally zero about how well the Pokemon performs in battle, and thus shouldn't be considered for a tiering list. If I'm purely a retail player and I see Moltres in S+ but it needs Morning Sun or W-o-W, it's my responsibility to decide whether or not it's worth the time investment for the XD playthrough and whether I should learn2rng or settle for soft reset. Technically the only requirement for Moltres specifically to do its job is +Speed nature with 31 IVs, so I can even aim for Jolly, Hasty, or Naive thus widening my options on what to settle for. If I don't have the time for ANY of this, I cut my losses and find something else to use instead of Moltres. Every Pokemon is different, but the same thought process applies.

Pretty much this ^ On my first tier-list Texas Cloverleaf also had the same opinion hence why I am convinced now that availability shouldn't be a factor regardless.

 

[submenceisop]

Ok, since there's a renewed interest in Dome (finally!), I want to make a quick post about updated speedtier in Dome.

Since every opponent in this facility has just 3 IVs Pokémon, every offensive/defensive calc gains huge advantages for the player.
That's also true for speedtier, because now some good Pokémon with middling Speed (Suicune and Moltres for example) can outspeed and stall a completely new range of opponents, while monstrous wallbreakers like Slaking can now shine for real and outpace almost every foe.

Every player must have this knowledge approaching at the Dome, since every EV invested to outspeed/outdamage 31 IVs foes can be totally wasted and better used in other stats, tanking now unexpected hits or scoring KOs on too bulky enemies before.

Updated Dome Lv.50 Speedtier (3 IVs)

184 (200)
Jolteon-4

168 (182)
Crobat-3, Crobat-4, Jolteon-1

166 (180)
Ninjask-1, Ninjask-2

158 (172)
Dugtrio-1, Dugtrio-2, Dugtrio-3, Dugtrio-4, Sceptile-1, Sceptile-2, Sceptile-4, Sneasel-2

157 (171)
Aerodactyl-1, Aerodactyl-2

153 (167)
Raikou-1, Raikou-2, Raikou-3, Raikou-4, Starmie-3, Starmie-4, Starmie-5, Starmie-7, Starmie-8

150 (166)
Gengar1

148 (162)
Espeon-2, Espeon-3, Espeon-4, Gengar-2, Gengar-3, Gengar-4, Gengar-5, Gengar-6, Gengar-7, Gengar-8, Tauros-1

147 (161)
Sceptile-3

146 (160)
Electrode-2, Electrode-3, Electrode-4

143 (157)
Electabuzz-3, Manectric-1, Manectric-2, Manectric-3, Manectric-4, Scyther-2

140 (156)
Kangaskhan-3

138 (152)
Charizard-1, Charizard-2, Charizard-3, Dodrio-1, Dodrio-2, Dodrio-3, Dodrio-4, Entei-1, Entei-2, Entei-3, Entei-4, Fearow-1, Fearow-2, Fearow-3, Flygon-1, Flygon-2, Ninetales-1, Ninetales-2, Ninetales-3, Ninetales-4, Raichu-1, Raichu-3, Salamence-1, Salamence-7, Salamence-8, Typhlosion-1, Typhlosion-3, Zapdos-1, Zapdos-2

137 (151)
Espeon-1, Latias-8, Latios-8

136 (150)
Aerodactyl-3, Aerodactyl-4, Crobat-1, Crobat-2, Heracross-2, Jolteon-2, Jolteon-3, Misdreavus-4, Pinsir-2

134 (149)
Xatu-3

133 (147)
Arcanine-1, Arcanine-2, Arcanine-3, Arcanine-4, Houndoom-2, Houndoom-3, Houndoom-4

132 (146)
Electabuzz-2, Rapidash-2, Rapidash-3, Rapidash-4

131 (144)
Electrode-1

129 (145)
Gardevoir-6, Magmar-2, Meganium-3, Pidgeot-2

128 (142)
Kangaskhan-4, Moltres-3, Moltres-5, Venomoth-2, Zangoose-2

127 (141)
Charizard-4, Flygon-3, Flygon-4, Raichu-1, Rapidash-1, Salamence-2, Tentacruel-3, Typhlosion-2, Typhlosion-4, Zapdos-3

126 (140)
Alakazam-1, Alakazam-2, Alakazam-3, Alakazam-4

123 (137)
Articuno-1, Golduck-4, Heracross-3, Heracross-4, Suicune-1, Suicune-3, Suicune-4

122 (136)
Houndoom-1, Sharpedo-2

121 (135)
Starmie-1, Starmie-2, Starmie-6

118 (132-134)
Breloom-1, Blaziken-3, Gardevoir-3, Gardevoir-4, Gardevoir-8, Glalie-2, Medicham-1, Medicham-2, Medicham-3

117 (133)
Gardevoir-1, Gyarados-2

116 (130)
Jumpluff-2, Latias-1, Latias-2, Latias-3, Latias-4, Latias-5, Latias-6, Latias-7, Latios-1, Latios-2, Latios-3, Latios-4, Latios-5, Latios-6, Latios-7, Tauros-2, Tauros-3, Tauros-4

113 (128)
Flareon-3

113 (127)
Absol-2

112 (126)
Golduck-2

111 (125)
Electabuzz-4

107 (123)
Lapras-2

108 (122)
Breloom-2, Breloom-3, Breloom-4, Delcatty-2, Metagross-5

107 (121)
Gardevoir-5, Glalie-3

106 (120)
Exploud-3, Fearow-4, Miltank-1, Miltank-2, Miltank-3, Miltank-4, Raichu-4, Salamence-3, Salamence-4, Salamence-5, Salamence-6, Slaking-1, Slaking-2, Slaking-3, Slaking-4, Tentacruel-1, Tentacruel-2, Tentacruel-4, Zapdos-4

105 (119)
Lanturn-3, Lanturn-4

101 (115)
Jynx-1, Jynx-2, Jynx-3, Jynx-4, Xatu-1, Xatu-2, Xatu-4

99 (113)
Magmar-3, Magmar-4

97 (111)
Metagross-1, Metagross-2, Metagross-3, Metagross-8

96 (112)
Donphan-2, Electabuzz-1

96 (110)
Kangaskhan-1, Kangaskhan-2, Moltres-1, Moltres-2, Mr. Mime-2, Mr. Mime-3, Mr. Mime-4

91 (105)
Articuno-2, Articuno-3, Articuno-4, Golduck-3, Heracross-1, Kingdra-1, Kingdra-2, Kingdra-3, Kingdra-4, Misdreavus-1, Misdreavus-2, Misdreavus-3, Nidoking-1, Nidoking-2, Nidoking-3, Nidoking-4, Suicune-2

89 (102)
Magmar-1

87 (101)
Gyarados-1, Gyarados-3, Gyarados-4, Milotic-1, Milotic-2, Milotic-3, Milotic-4, Shedinja-1

86 (100)
Altaria-1, Altaria-2, Altaria-3, Altaria-4, Blaziken-1, Blaziken-2, Blaziken-4, Gardevoir-2, Gardevoir-7, Glalie-1, Glalie-4, Medicham-4, Meganium-1, Meganium-2, Meganium-4, Shiftry-2, Shiftry-3, Shiftry-4, Venusaur-2, Venusaur-3, Venusaur-4

86 (99)
Moltres-4, Mr. Mime-1

84 (98)
Blastoise-1, Blatoise-3, Blastoise-4, Feraligatr-3, Feraligatr-4

83 (97)
Marowak-2, Marowak-3, Marowak-4

82 (96)
Nidoqueen-1, Nidoqueen-2, Nidoqueen-3, Nidoqueen-4, Ursaring-3

81 (94-95)
Golduck-, Claydol-1, Claydol-2, Claydol-3, Claydol-4, Kingler-2

76 (90)
Cloyster-2, Dewgong-2, Dewgong-3, Dewgong-4, Ludicolo-2, Ludicolo-3, Ludicolo-4, Mantine-2, Metagross-4, Metagross-6, Metagross-7, Shiftry-1, Skarmory-1, Skarmory-2, Skarmory-3, Skarmory-4, Venusaur-1, Victreebel-2, Victreebel-3, Victreebel-4

75 (88)
Blastoise-2, Feraligatr-1, Feraligatr-2, Exploud-1, Exploud-2, Exploud-4, Seaking-2

73 (87)
Hypno-2, Hypno-3, Hypno-4, Lanturn-2

71 (85)
Flareon-1, Seviper-2, Scizor-1, Scizor-2, Scizor-3, Scizor-4, Umbreon-1, Umbreon-2, Umbreon-3, Umbreon-4, Vaporeon-1, Vaporeon-2, Vaporeon-3, Vaporeon-4, Walrein-2, Walrein-3

68 (81)
Dewgong-1, Ludicolo-1, Victreebel-1

66 (80)
Clefable-2, Clefable-3, Clefable-4, Lapras-1, Lapras-3, Lapras-4, Lapras-5, Lapras-6, Lapras-7, Lapras-8, Porygon2-1, Porygon2-2, Porygon2-3, Porygon2-4, Swampert-1, Swampert-2, Wailord-2, Wailord-3, Wailord-4, Weezing-1, Weezing-2, Weezing-3, Weezing-4, Whiscash-1, Whiscash-2, Whiscash-3

65 (78)
Hypno-1, Lanturn-1

63 (76)
Flareon-2, Flareon-4, Walrein-1, Walrein-4

61 (75)
Ampharos-2, Ampharos-3, Ampharos-4, Blissey-1, Blissey-2, Blissey-3, Blissey-4, Cacturne-2, Crawdaunt-2, Exeggutor-2, Exeggutor-3, Exeggutor-4, Machamp-1, Machamp-2, Machamp-3, Machamp-4, Machamp-5, Machamp-6, Machamp-7, Machamp-8, Ursaring-1, Ursaring-2, Ursaring-4, Ursaring-5, Ursaring-6, Ursaring-7, Ursaring-8

59 (72)
Clefable-1, Masquerain-2, Swampert-3, Swampert-4, Wailord-1, Whiscash-4

56 (70)
Aggron-1, Aggron-2, Aggron-3, Aggron-4, Bellossom-2, Donphan-1, Donphan-3, Donphan-4, Hariyama-1, Hariyama-3, Hariyama-4, Muk-1, Muk-2, Regirock-1, Regirock-2, Regirock-3, Regirock-4, Regice-1, Regice-4, Registeel-1, Registeel-3, Registeel-4, Vileplume-1, Vileplume-2, Vileplume-3

54 (67)
Ampharos-1, Exeggutor-1, Relicanth-2

51 (65)
Armaldo-1, Armaldo-2, Armaldo-3, Armaldo-4, Golem-1, Golem-2, Golem-3, Golem-4, Gorebyss-2, Granbull-1, Granbull-3, Huntail-2, Marowak-1, Octillery-2, Wigglytuff-2

51 (64)
Tropius-2

50 (63)
Chansey-2, Cradily-2, Cradily-3, Cradily-4, Hariyama-2, Muk-3, Muk-4, Regice-2, Regice-3, Registeel-2, Vileplume-4

46 (60)
Forretress-1, Forretress-2, Forretress-4, Kecleon-2, Rhydon-1, Rhydon-2, Rhydon-3, Rhydon-4

45 (58)
Dunsparce-2, Granbull-2, Granbull-4

44 (57)
Cradily-1

41 (55)
Quagsire-1, Quagsire-3

41 (54)
Forretress-3, Porygon-2

39 (53)
Wobbuffet1, Wobbuffet2

36 (50)
Parasect-2, Slowbro-2, Slowking-2, Slowking-4, Snorlax-1, Snorlax-2, Snorlax-3, Snorlax-4, Snorlax-5, Snorlax06, Snorlax-7, Snorlax-8, Steelix-1, Steelix-2, Steelix-3, Steelix-4

36 (49)
Quagsire-2, Quagsire-4

31 (45)
Dusclops-1, Dusclops-2, Dusclops-3, Dusclops-4, Slowbro-1, Slowbro-3, Slowbro-4, Slowking-1, Slowking-3, Sunflora-2

11 (25)
Shuckle-2, Shuckle-3, Shuckle-4

9 (22)
Shuckle1

Consequences of "IVs glitch"

There are now some quick considerations about the update speedtier:

• BST 100 Spe Pokémon are the winners without doubts: with a Positive Nature and 196 Spe EVs, they can reach what before was the "blessed 173 speedtier", now set at 159. This allows them to outpace Neutral Nature BST 120 Spe 255 EVs opponents (!) and everything slower, basically being outsped only by some Jolteon and Crobat sets. Yes, Slaking is a complete monster.
• Strongest Pressure users sadly have a middling Spe, but thanks to this glitch they can really shine in Dome: Suicune with 244+ Spe EVs and a Timid nature can reach 149 Spe, outspeeding Neutral Nature BST 110 Spe 255 EVs foes (most notably Espeon and Gengar!), while Moltres with a Timid nature and 236+ Spe EVs can reach 154 and outspeed also Raikou and Starmie!
• Even with 3 Spe IVs, Jolteon 4 remains a devilish presence: with 184 Spe, even a Positive Nature 115 BST Spe 252+ EVs Pokémon will fail to outspeed, falling "just" at 183. Of course, now a BST 120 Spe Poké can outpace this foe, but at my eyes it still remains a strong threat to face without a blank defensive counter.

At this point, every player that wants to challenge the Dome must consider these aspects while teambuilding and preparing gameplans.
"IVs glitch" and tie rule make Dome the most player-friendly and enjoyable facility in my opinion, so I hope to see interesting ideas and streaks soon!

This is very useful information! I'm glad that I have Modest Latios for this format because you are only outsped by Jolteon, Crobat and Ninjask anyway. Tailoring a team specifically for the Dome could make a lot of sense if you are willing to do that. For base +100s, the spare 56 ish evs that you don't need to invest into speed could go into bulk, which may make a difference. The +115 speed falling short of Jolteon is probably no big deal: there is only Raikou, Starmie (which loses anyway) and Sneasel( who sucks).

 

[Kommo-o]

Jolly max speed Breloom hits 262 speed and out speeds every relevant normal type besides Kanga, one variant of Tauros and some variants of Slaking. Regarding major battles, Loom outspeeds Tucker's Charizard, Latias, Salamence, Palace Suicune, Palace 1 Slaking, Palace Arcanine, Anabel's Entei, Greta's Heracross and Greta's Gengar(who you can't really hit besides leech seed, but at least you can spore it turn 1. Also destroys Brandon's team 1. I never bothered to switch my team out for the pyramid, but if I did, Loom would function similar to Heracross in this format, at least for the early rounds. You can spore to potentially make running from wild mons easier and Stab focus punch obviously hits hard. Breloom is certainly a niche mon, but it's no worse than C if Hitmonlee is in it too. Hitmonlee for instance is outclassed as a reversal user by Heracross or Medi and outclassed as a bulky fighting type by Machamp. You can argue that's why it's at C, but why bother using it if it brings nothing different to the table? Even comparing to Venusaur, which also shares a typing with Breloom, Loom boasts a much better sleep move in spore over sleep powder. Both sets lose to faster water types with ice beam such as starmie, even Venu unless you run the sub optimal giga drain. No one runs offensive Venu either, so at least Breloom's speed might actually let it cripple something before it takes a hit.
If you aren't that convinced, I'll try a run with it in the Dome or Arena, which are probably it's best facilities.

Saw the comment about Hitmonlee until now. Fair point, I'll gladly drop it from there since it was suggested originally on the first tierlist I created. I'm not particularly convinced about Breloom since it only got better on newer games, but if you can provide any info about it's use, it will be glaldy welcome!

 

[Voltolos]

You shouldn't be using a FR/LG Suicune anyways since all roamers before Emerald are glitched to 0 IVs. If you can get a Suicune with good IVs, you get one of the best Pokemon for Frontier use. Glitches are not a reason to affect ranking since if you're able to get it the most efficient version, you use it. You don't use a bad quality version of it.

Regarding Gengar, Explosion does sounds interesting for Arena use. You underestimate severely how good Perish Song is and on one of my stall teams, I got to 500 wins with it. Perish Song is a very reliable way to get rid of Double Team spammers and Curse users, specially if you use a bulky set without attacks. Gengar shouldn't be max offense anyways since the lack of STAB severely hurts its viability.



Registeel is a good sweeper, but the thing is that its use is only limited to Battle Tower. Registeel needs its other two teammates to support it heavily and create chances for it to set-up. Without the ability of fulling set-up, it is very weak and underwhelming. Arena only has three turns and Registeel won't do a lot with such a limited short of time. On Dome, battles are 2-v-2 and only one partner is not really enough to buy opportunities on such fast paced battles where you can simply use a much better option like Metagross and deal immediate damage. On Pike, how does it stands out compared to what Metagross or Steelix can do? Are the wild Pokemon of the Pyramid letting you run away if you have Registeel on your team?



I haven't personally fiddled with any of these, so I am welcome to more suggestions. Jolteon does deserve a mention for having that base +130 Speed which means that it will outspeed everything (FYI all Aerodactyl sets on Frontier are not +Spe nature and it only speed ties with Jolteon 4).



Ninetales definitely deserves more exploration. It gains access to Grudge and Charm which are worthy of experimenting with it already. Thanks for the suggestion!

I definitely forgot to add Tyranitar but mostly because I was focused on Lv.50 only. It could definitely be added at least for that format but not sure where it could be ranked. I did have previous runs on Open Level with Taunt & Dragon Dance and I really was impressed with how good it is. It shuts down pretty much any Psychic type so it definitely has its niche.

Breloom is pretty weak. Average Speed, most normal types like Ursaring have Aerial Ace as coverage moves and weakness to Psychic is a huge hindrance along with pitiful defenses. I don't think Breloom deserves a high rating since it requires too much set-up and relies on the turns it can buy with Spore.

I’ve actually had decent success with a StallTar running Torment / Protect / Substitute / Curse, with HP and SpDef investment. I could probably swap Sub out for HP Rock, but I also run Leftovers. I don’t have much experience with higher levels just yet, but I think his bulk and residual damage could come in very handy. I personally feel bad cheating the system a little bit by removing TTar and Nite, but so be it

 

[Adedede]

Hello everyone!
Another update from IRIDESCENCE streak, that today has just reached 2303 wins!
I've made some commented fights from the last 7-matches run:

Picture proof

The article about this team is going on day by day and I hope it'll be interesting for y'all as it is starting to be at my eyes (but since I'm totally in love with this squad, I could be strongly biased).

 

[Kommo-o]

Reporting an on-going 42 win streak at the Battle Palace on retail cartridge. So decided that since I got completely burned out from playing Sword/Shield and after losing my record at the Tower, I would be going on and play some of the other facilities while doing some exploration with Pokemon that I usually don't use outside Tower. I decided to go ahead and make a run of my money for what I do consider the 2nd worst facility in the whole game: The Battle Palace.

Streak Proof

Yes that place where you actually fear Volbeat 2 and becomes a much more relevant threat than Armaldo 3 on this facility simply because the AI will make the moves for your Pokemon and most of the times... they will psychologically abuse you. After having my stress levels over the chat due to how Suicune betrayed me on this facility, I decided to replace Suicune with Milotic and so far, I have been satisified with the results. I feel very proud of this team and I can say that as long as your Pokemons make the right decision, they will carry you on this facility:

OccThink

TheLetterA (Flygon) (F) @ Choice Band
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpD
EVs: 4 HP / 248 Atk / 6 SpA / 252 Spe
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
Hasty Nature
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake

Hasty move preference percentage:​

Over 50% HP​

Below 50% HP​

Attack​	Defense​	Support​	Attack​	Defense​	Support​
79% (Choice Band)	-	21% Incapable	94% (Choice Band)	-	6% Incapable
Earthquake, Rock Slide	-	-	Earthquake, Rock Slide	-	-

How to win on Palace 101

Nothing else needs to be said or explained about this Flygon set. Hasty nature is simply the best nature to use on this facility and it only requires two moves to work properly. Because Choice Band restricts the move choice, the actual attacking odds for Flygon are 79% since that 21% where it would've attacked dumbly is restricted by it. Once it is below 50% HP, it becomes a whooping 94% with only a 6% where it becomes incapable of using its own power.

Coverage wise, Earthquake and Rock Slide are the only moves that Flygon needs because its physical movepool is pretty barren and locking into anything else is begging for defeat. Flygon is used on the lead position since once it makes its move, you'll know what move it will be using for the rest of the match and swap accordingly if the enemy resists it or is immune to it.

Venus (Milotic) (F) @ Leftovers
IVs: 0 Atk
EVs: 244 HP / 254 Def / 4 SpA / 4 SpD / 4 Spe
Ability: Marvel Scale
Level: 50
Bold Nature
- Surf
- Toxic
- Recover
- Icy Wind

Bold move preference percentage:​

Over 50% HP​

Below 50% HP​

Attack​	Defense​	Support​	Attack​	Defense​	Support​
30%	20%	50%	32%	58%	10%
Surf, Icy Wind	Recover	Toxic	Surf, Icy Wind	Recover	Toxic

After being psychologically abused and scarred for life by Suicune who simply refused to take down a Marowak 2 on one of my battles at Palace where it decided to boost CM in front of it, without ever fucking attacking once, until Marowak killed it... I decided that I needed a new team member. Milotic kills it on this facility due to its access of instant recovery and at below health, it will prioritize restoring its lost HP which makes it a great mon to rely into as the defensive backbone of this team. 50% chance of poisoning everything on sight is great because this makes Milotic a reliable Toxic staller that is able to defeat the Water types that Flygon struggles against. Also, its attacking odds are decent enough to take advantage of Surf. Icy Wind is there because it allows Milotic to put control on Salamence 4 and it was very useful vs Spencer's Hasty Suicune to which Milotic reduced its Speed and taking out of the window the possibility of getting flinched by boosted Bites.

Because Milotic has moves that fit into all three categories, it will always be guaranteed to make a move which is pretty great, although it won't always pick the correct one. However, on this hot pile of garbage facility, I'll take anything else other than "being incapable of using its own power."

Asura (Scizor) (M) @ Lum Berry
IVs: 29 HP / 30 Def / 18 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
EVs: 252 HP / 108 Atk / 4 Def / 10 SpD / 136 Spe
Ability: Swarm
Level: 50
Adamant Nature
- Leer
- Aerial Ace
- Silver Wind
- Morning Sun

Adamant move preference percentage:​

Over 50% HP​

Below 50% HP​

Attack​	Defense​	Support​	Attack​	Defense​	Support​
38%	31%	31%	32%	58%	10%
Aerial Ace, Silver Wind	Morning Sun	Leer	Aerial Ace, Silver Wind	Morning Sun	Leer

This is a real Scizor with cojones, none of that Bullet Punch and Mega Scizor bs. But seriously, this is the facility where I less enjoyed using it. Being honest, I only took a page from greentyphlosion's team and the only reason why he's here is because its resistances complements Milotic and Flygon perfectly. When Scizors picks its moves correctly, this is an amazing Pokemon to use since boosted Silver Winds hurt a lot and getting the omni-boost is always nice. Morning Sun grants recovery and with Adamant's preference of using it at low health, it knows at times when to use it. The main attacks are there for good reasons: Aerial Ace is there to punish Double Team spammers and preventing them from getting away with Palace shenanigans. It also destroys Breloom and Heracross which are troublesome for Flygon and Milotic. Silver Wind is the main STAB and what Scizor will use to destroy the Grass types both Flygon and Milotic struggle against.

One of the most important changes I made recently is replacing Swords Dance with Leer. Yes, that useless move you used early-game to get rid of Blue's Squirtle and Poochyenas on almost every route. With Leer, which is considered a support move on the Palace categories, Scizor is now guaranteed to always make a move which is much better than not having a chance at all. With Leer, Scizor is able to reduce the opponent's Defense which not only allows it to hit harder but in case it is being too dumb with the Leer drops, I can swap into Flygon who benefits massively from these drops and grab the kill. Overall, the addition of Leer has massively bolstered the team

I might consider replacing Swords Dance because in the end, Scizor doesn't really gets a lot of good support moves and the incorrect use of Swords Dance has lead to too many close battles. At least Morning Sun will recover the lost HP below the healthy percentage. Open to any suggestion on Scizor's last move.

TL:DR: Don't do this facility and ever come back to it. If you're aiming for a serious streak (just like I am), think again. This place will make any grown man cry rivers of tears and suffering. It's not fun watching your Pokemon use Swords Dance until they die. It's not fun. It will make you angry and have PTSD episodes. Easily the 2nd worst facility on this game behind the Factory.

 

[Zsy6]

Reporting an on-going 42 win streak at the Battle Palace on retail cartridge. So decided that since I got completely burned out from playing Sword/Shield and after losing my record at the Tower, I would be going on and play some of the other facilities while doing some exploration with Pokemon that I usually don't use outside Tower. I decided to go ahead and make a run of my money for what I do consider the 2nd worst facility in the whole game: The Battle Palace.

Streak Proof

Yes that place where you actually fear Volbeat 2 and becomes a much more relevant threat than Armaldo 3 on this facility simply because the AI will make the moves for your Pokemon and most of the times... they will psychologically abuse you. After having my stress levels over the chat due to how Suicune betrayed me on this facility, I decided to replace Suicune with Milotic and so far, I have been satisified with the results. I feel very proud of this team and I can say that as long as your Pokemons make the right decision, they will carry you on this facility:

OccThink

TheLetterA (Flygon) (F) @ Choice Band
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpD
EVs: 4 HP / 248 Atk / 6 SpA / 252 Spe
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
Hasty Nature
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake

Hasty move preference percentage:​

Over 50% HP​

Below 50% HP​

Attack​	Defense​	Support​	Attack​	Defense​	Support​
79% (Choice Band)	-	21% Incapable	94% (Choice Band)	-	6% Incapable
Earthquake, Rock Slide	-	-	Earthquake, Rock Slide	-	-

How to win on Palace 101

Nothing else needs to be said or explained about this Flygon set. Hasty nature is simply the best nature to use on this facility and it only requires two moves to work properly. Because Choice Band restricts the move choice, the actual attacking odds for Flygon are 79% since that 21% where it would've attacked dumbly is restricted by it. Once it is below 50% HP, it becomes a whooping 94% with only a 6% where it becomes incapable of using its own power.

Coverage wise, Earthquake and Rock Slide are the only moves that Flygon needs because its physical movepool is pretty barren and locking into anything else is begging for defeat. Flygon is used on the lead position since once it makes its move, you'll know what move it will be using for the rest of the match and swap accordingly if the enemy resists it or is immune to it.

Venus (Milotic) (F) @ Leftovers
IVs: 0 Atk
EVs: 244 HP / 254 Def / 4 SpA / 4 SpD / 4 Spe
Ability: Marvel Scale
Level: 50
Bold Nature
- Surf
- Toxic
- Recover
- Icy Wind

Bold move preference percentage:​

Over 50% HP​

Below 50% HP​

Attack​	Defense​	Support​	Attack​	Defense​	Support​
30%	20%	50%	32%	58%	10%
Surf, Icy Wind	Recover	Toxic	Surf, Icy Wind	Recover	Toxic

After being psychologically abused and scarred for life by Suicune who simply refused to take down a Marowak 2 on one of my battles at Palace where it decided to boost CM in front of it, without ever fucking attacking once, until Marowak killed it... I decided that I needed a new team member. Milotic kills it on this facility due to its access of instant recovery and at below health, it will prioritize restoring its lost HP which makes it a great mon to rely into as the defensive backbone of this team. 50% chance of poisoning everything on sight is great because this makes Milotic a reliable Toxic staller that is able to defeat the Water types that Flygon struggles against. Also, its attacking odds are decent enough to take advantage of Surf. Icy Wind is there because it allows Milotic to put control on Salamence 4 and it was very useful vs Spencer's Hasty Suicune to which Milotic reduced its Speed and taking out of the window the possibility of getting flinched by boosted Bites.

Because Milotic has moves that fit into all three categories, it will always be guaranteed to make a move which is pretty great, although it won't always pick the correct one. However, on this hot pile of garbage facility, I'll take anything else other than "being incapable of using its own power."

Asura (Scizor) (M) @ Lum Berry
IVs: 29 HP / 30 Def / 18 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
EVs: 252 HP / 108 Atk / 4 Def / 10 SpD / 136 Spe
Ability: Swarm
Level: 50
Adamant Nature
- Aerial Ace
- Silver Wind
- Morning Sun
- Swords Dance

Adamant move preference percentage:​

Over 50% HP​

Below 50% HP​

Attack​	Defense​	Support​	Attack​	Defense​	Support​
38%	31%	31%	32%	58%	10%
Aerial Ace, Silver Wind	Swords Dance, Morning Sun	Incapable or dumb	Aerial Ace, Silver Wind	Swords Dance, Morning Sun	Incapable or dumb

This is a real Scizor with cojones, none of that Bullet Punch and Mega Scizor bs. But seriously, this is the facility where I less enjoyed using it. Being honest, I only took a page from greentyphlosion's team and the only reason why he's here is because its resistances complements Milotic and Flygon perfectly. However, the odds of it being incapable of using its power are pretty high on good health and this has been the main cause of my frustrations on this current run. When Scizors picks its moves correctly, this is an amazing Pokemon to use since boosted Silver Winds hurt a lot and getting the omni-boost is always nice. Morning Sun grants recovery and with Adamant's preference of using it at low health, it knows at times when to use it. The main attacks are there for good reasons: Aerial Ace is there to punish Double Team spammers and preventing them from getting away with Palace shenanigans. It also destroys Breloom and Heracross which are troublesome for Flygon and Milotic. Silver Wind is the main STAB and what Scizor will use to destroy the Grass types both Flygon and Milotic struggle against.

I might consider replacing Swords Dance because in the end, Scizor doesn't really gets a lot of good support moves and the incorrect use of Swords Dance has lead to too many close battles. At least Morning Sun will recover the lost HP below the healthy percentage. Open to any suggestion on Scizor's last move.

TL:DR: Don't do this facility and ever come back to it. If you're aiming for a serious streak (just like I am), think again. This place will make any grown man cry rivers of tears and suffering. It's not fun watching your Pokemon use Swords Dance until they die. It's not fun. It will make you angry and have PTSD episodes. Easily the 2nd worst facility on this game behind the Factory.

I'm glad to see someone else trying to up their Palace streak. I may be crazy, but it's definitely my favorite facility. I like the added element of choosing a nature that works well with the pokemon's goals, and I'm not the best at strategy, so I like that that's out of my hands. Currently working on a team to take back the record... Is there a pokemon generating program people use to test sets out? Hard to RNG an entire team just to have it not work out.

Some ideas in no particular order:
- Recover (and its clones) is way better than Rest in the Palace because it doesn't matter too much if your pokemon uses it when at nearly full health. It's best to use a chesto berry with Rest for insurance.
- Curse is considered a support move, and I have yet to see someone take good advantage of this fact. Impish Curse Snorlax or Impish Curse Miltank could be amazing in the palace because you can count on them to heal themselves when their HP gets low. All other boosting moves are defense moves, so if you have Rest and Calm Mind, they may use the wrong one at the wrong time. Curse Miltank also gets Milk Drink.
- Hardy is a great nature for a pokemon with 3 attacking moves and 1 support move. Not sure who could pull it off best. Gengar, Starmie, or maybe Breloom could make use of it with their support move options.
- I generally think choice band is a bad idea in the Palace, because your pokemon can still waste turns, and it's better to spend those turns capitalizing on the opponent's wasted turns. That said, I think there's some potential for Choice Band Explosion as a way to eliminate threats. Brave Choice Band Steelix with Earthquake, Explosion and Toxic could be interesting, or maybe just Metagross with EQ and Explosion. With Choice Band you really want a higher chance of the pokemon making a smart decision at high health, so they get locked into the best possible move.
- I have a lot of Palace notes on my computer at home that I'd like to compile into a more comprehensive guide at some point.