I'm really interested in the metagame and I love the concept, but I have no idea where to start. Has anyone found anything interesting?
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Gen-NEXT development thread
- Thread starter Zarel
- Start date
- Status
Hi! I have created a new set for Regice that involves the removal of self-induced stat changes, specifically for the one and only CURSE!!
@ Occa Berry/Leftovers
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Calm Nature
- Curse
- Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/Frost Breath
- Toxic/Substitute
- Ice Punch/Superpower
With Curse no longer nerfing Regice's already horrible speed, it can make effective use of the move it and the other two Regis came with in Ruby, Sapphire and Emerald (so essentially, this is now a Ghost-type Bulk-Up). First off, you got to keep up with Physically Defensive threats, so make sure to have either Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, or Frost Breath on your moveset; these will be your main Special moves. Toxic and Substitute are going to be good for stalling, and Substitute must be paired up with Leftovers. Ice Punch or Superpower are your main moves on this set; Ice Punch gets S.T.A.B., whilst Superpower gets 120 BP, and now doesn't lower your Attack and Defense!
Occa Berry is for the unsuspecting Fire-type user who tries to get in the 2 or 3HKO, and this Pokemon is switched in. Leftovers is for HP recovery, and once again, should be paired up with Substitute.
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Calm Nature
- Curse
- Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/Frost Breath
- Toxic/Substitute
- Ice Punch/Superpower
With Curse no longer nerfing Regice's already horrible speed, it can make effective use of the move it and the other two Regis came with in Ruby, Sapphire and Emerald (so essentially, this is now a Ghost-type Bulk-Up). First off, you got to keep up with Physically Defensive threats, so make sure to have either Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, or Frost Breath on your moveset; these will be your main Special moves. Toxic and Substitute are going to be good for stalling, and Substitute must be paired up with Leftovers. Ice Punch or Superpower are your main moves on this set; Ice Punch gets S.T.A.B., whilst Superpower gets 120 BP, and now doesn't lower your Attack and Defense!
Occa Berry is for the unsuspecting Fire-type user who tries to get in the 2 or 3HKO, and this Pokemon is switched in. Leftovers is for HP recovery, and once again, should be paired up with Substitute.
Would you rather have a Flame Drive Genesect neutral to Stealth Rock and immune to Toxic Spikes or a Flame Drive Genesect that loses 50% of its health to SR and is vulnerable to TSpikes?
Um...
According to the changelist, Stealth Rock only deals 1/4 to Flying-types and 1/8 to everything else. Personally, I'd say to make Stealth Rock a two-layer entry hazard; layer 1 would not stack weaknesses (so say, Fire/Flying would take 1/4, and Steel/Ground would take 1/8), and layer 2 would. A big problem with Stealth Rock is that it just takes one turn and, bam! Anything with a quad weakness to Rock is crippled almost beyond the ability to perform well; add the fact that a lot of fragile speedster Pokémon learn it and employ suicidal tactics just to get the hazard up... and it's clear to see why Stealth Rock is such a powerful force.
Those are just my thoughts; anyone and everyone here has the right to disagree.
According to the changelist, Stealth Rock only deals 1/4 to Flying-types and 1/8 to everything else. Personally, I'd say to make Stealth Rock a two-layer entry hazard; layer 1 would not stack weaknesses (so say, Fire/Flying would take 1/4, and Steel/Ground would take 1/8), and layer 2 would. A big problem with Stealth Rock is that it just takes one turn and, bam! Anything with a quad weakness to Rock is crippled almost beyond the ability to perform well; add the fact that a lot of fragile speedster Pokémon learn it and employ suicidal tactics just to get the hazard up... and it's clear to see why Stealth Rock is such a powerful force.
Those are just my thoughts; anyone and everyone here has the right to disagree.
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpD / 4 HP
Gentle Nature
- Curse
- Superpower
- Iron Head/Explosion/Return/Earthquake/ThunderPunch/Ice Punch/Aerial Ace
- Toxic/Substitute/Amnesia/Stealth Rock
I've already mentioned my Regice's Clear Body set, but Registeel is a whole other story. Curse becomes more of an asset to the Steel-type, as well for Regirock (Regice becomes usable at this point).
Superpower is Registeel's main move, as its Attack and Defense don't lower after the opponent is hit. Which means that you can maintain Registeel for an even longer period of time after one or two Curses. The third slot can be filled with any viable move, or one of the choices above.
Iron Head provides the Regi with extremely useful S.T.A.B., and as a desperation measure (or all of your moves have ran out for some reason), Explosion will be a pretty good option to have.
Return also provides some pretty useful power against any non-resistant Pokemon.
Earthquake gets rid of some threats and provides pretty good power.
ThunderPunch or Ice Punch get rid of many threats (depending on what you have), and provides a chance for paralysis or freezing, respectively.
Aerial Ace gets rid of Fighting-type threats (looking at YOU, Hitmonlee and Machamp), and never misses.
The fourth slot is used for stalling with either one of these moves you have available to you.
Toxic is used for dealing lots of damage overtime while you keep regaining HP with either hold item.
Substitute is used for absorbing damage, allowing you to safely set up one, if not two Curses.
Amnesia is there to give a nice boost to any unsuspecting Special Attackers, provided you have a substitute set up.
Stealth Rock is your entry hazard, of course.
ITEMS:
Leftovers provides 1/16th of your HP back at the end of every turn, which is sort of a god-send for Registeel.
Shell Bell provides 1/8th of the HP you dealt to your opponent back to you.
I think that there should be more opposite typed pokemon like ludicolo introduced. Maybe a fire/water type or fire/grass. That would be a rather interesting pokemon.
Something else I would like is pokemon with 3 types, a step up from the current limit of 2. That could lead to another amazing defensive pokemon (eg a fire/water/grass type) as well as 3x weaknesses.
Something else I would like is pokemon with 3 types, a step up from the current limit of 2. That could lead to another amazing defensive pokemon (eg a fire/water/grass type) as well as 3x weaknesses.
Wow, I think this thread is getting a bit out of hand.
First off, I don't think this is the place to be posting sets, maybe there is another thread or we can make one to post sets on.
I also Don't think we are adding more pokemon, that what CAP is for. Although this does bring up the idea that we could add pokemon that have been released for X and Y and just guess on their stats (its like half the things we are doing are likely to actually happen). However only having first evolution starters which are LC material and then a few of the big legendarys which are Uber material these aren't too usable knowing how much guessing we would be putting in.
Here is a new thought, give shedinja magic guard as its second ability. its gimmicky as hell but I think it would be worth while to wall all status users
Unown's item isn't working correctly, it doesn't change its type to the hidden power type.
First off, I don't think this is the place to be posting sets, maybe there is another thread or we can make one to post sets on.
I also Don't think we are adding more pokemon, that what CAP is for. Although this does bring up the idea that we could add pokemon that have been released for X and Y and just guess on their stats (its like half the things we are doing are likely to actually happen). However only having first evolution starters which are LC material and then a few of the big legendarys which are Uber material these aren't too usable knowing how much guessing we would be putting in.
Here is a new thought, give shedinja magic guard as its second ability. its gimmicky as hell but I think it would be worth while to wall all status users
Unown's item isn't working correctly, it doesn't change its type to the hidden power type.
Just looked at the changes for the first time and I'll admit I'm excited for a few of them. There were actually a couple that I had thought about before coming here as "things-I-would-like-to-see" for Gen VI. I'll discuss them below.
Strange Orb for Unown: Probably a bigger buff than what I was thinking for him, but definitely an appreciated one. I was thinking of some way to get Unown a second Hidden Power type, and it ended up being a move that worked in a similar way to Sketch in that it would copy the Hidden Power from the target the first turn it was used, but then after turned into a regular Hidden Power of that type. I think Unown would appreciate the two-type coverage.
Acid (Spray) buff: This was almost exactly one of the concepts I was thinking (a Special Poison-type move that could hit Steel-types). Nice.
Sound-types unaffected by immunities: I actually think this is a little too limited. For example, say Electivire tried to use Thunderpunch on Dugtrio, the electricity might not hurt him but he would still feel the punch, right? I would say immunities would only count for either physical/special (unless it really makes sense for both).
Just some things to think about.
Strange Orb for Unown: Probably a bigger buff than what I was thinking for him, but definitely an appreciated one. I was thinking of some way to get Unown a second Hidden Power type, and it ended up being a move that worked in a similar way to Sketch in that it would copy the Hidden Power from the target the first turn it was used, but then after turned into a regular Hidden Power of that type. I think Unown would appreciate the two-type coverage.
Acid (Spray) buff: This was almost exactly one of the concepts I was thinking (a Special Poison-type move that could hit Steel-types). Nice.
Sound-types unaffected by immunities: I actually think this is a little too limited. For example, say Electivire tried to use Thunderpunch on Dugtrio, the electricity might not hurt him but he would still feel the punch, right? I would say immunities would only count for either physical/special (unless it really makes sense for both).
Just some things to think about.
I have plenty of ideas, and I'm going to show more to prevent this thread from dying:
- With Intrinsics in mind, you can morph Unown´s signature item into a signature ability. Also, we can improve his movepool in a gimmicky way by giving him any TM move that starts with the same letter as the form.
- For Hyper Beam and co., the only buff I'd give is allowing the user to switch in the recharge turn (making them hit and run moves), as well as allowing Power Herb to bypass it once. Bypassing protect is also cool, but the other ones are a little too unrealistic (the autocrit thing is a gimmick after all). We could also bring diversity in boosting Rock Wrecker's power to 160 and Roar of Time's power to 190.
- Infiltrator can receive a buff in bypassing Substitute. That should be HUGE.
- I also would bring a cap to the evasion level DT/Minimize can provide. For DT, it should be +1, for minimize it should be +2. This means that either of these moves work once. Subs also ignore these boosts. Are they now worth using?
- For Fly, I wouldn't say high crit rate (same goes to the other 2-turn moves); just a power boost by 20. Also, when in sky, you don't have to use the move itself; you can also use another contact move at 50% extra power.
- Genesect: I'm against giving the forms a new typing, as the only physical difference between the forms is the drive plugged in. Speaking of which, drives should be no longer be held items, but rather key items you can use on genesect. (meaning the forms are now identical bar Techno Blast's typing)
- As I said before, I would give the butterflies (not the moths) an item that gives them an inherent Quiver Dance boost. (speaking of which, leave quiver dance as it is! We don't even know whether Volcorona will be ubers, and if so, so be it!) My problem with Gossamer Wing is that it's too specific, and that it doesn't change the fact that the bearers have terrible stats, and live in Venomoth's shadow.
- Toxic Boost should give the bearer a boost in Atk AND Speed when poisoned, to ensure this ability doesn't live in Guts's shadow, and to improve Zangoose dramatically. (Flare Boost obviously gets the same change)
- The sheer presence of any Stench pokemon on the field makes any non-poison/steel type loosing 1/8 of it's HP upon switching in.
- Color Change also modifies the type of any known Normal move
- For High Crit moves, Cross Chop and Stone Edge should get their accuracy pumped to 90%. To give the legendary AeroBlast/Spacial Rend more distinctive value, they gain a crit rate of +2. Also, CrabHammer deserves a power of 120, no high crit rate, but a flinch rate instead (why? ask Kingler)
- Meditate should gain some novelty in also increasing SpDef, as many mind based moves do.
- Focus Blast should gain an accuracy of 80% (NOT 50!)
- Superpower should gain a power boost to 130, to give it an edge over Close Combat. (Speaking of which, I don't like the nerf)
- Triple Kick should hit 3 times at 30 power. Simple as that. Don't see why GF had to screw it so badly.
- Iron Defense should double the weight.
- Chatter should have the following power table: 60 at low voice, 120 at mid voice and 180 at loud voice. Don't care about the confuse rate. (let's remove it)
- Heavy Slam and Dream Eater should gain a power boost of 50%, as these moves have pretty harsh conditions to get into their full potential. (plus, 120 is a very sad cap for HS)
- Jump kick sacrifies 33% of the user's HP when missing. It shouldn't be the same as HJK as it's weaker.
- Pay Day should have 70 power, which doubles when holding the Amulet Coin. I'm also proposing a Dark type if this mod allows move type changes.
- Some widely given suggestions for Wonder Guard and Run away: Wonder Guard should negate passive dammage, and Run Away should allow switching under any circumstance.
- With Intrinsics in mind, you can morph Unown´s signature item into a signature ability. Also, we can improve his movepool in a gimmicky way by giving him any TM move that starts with the same letter as the form.
- For Hyper Beam and co., the only buff I'd give is allowing the user to switch in the recharge turn (making them hit and run moves), as well as allowing Power Herb to bypass it once. Bypassing protect is also cool, but the other ones are a little too unrealistic (the autocrit thing is a gimmick after all). We could also bring diversity in boosting Rock Wrecker's power to 160 and Roar of Time's power to 190.
- Infiltrator can receive a buff in bypassing Substitute. That should be HUGE.
- I also would bring a cap to the evasion level DT/Minimize can provide. For DT, it should be +1, for minimize it should be +2. This means that either of these moves work once. Subs also ignore these boosts. Are they now worth using?
- For Fly, I wouldn't say high crit rate (same goes to the other 2-turn moves); just a power boost by 20. Also, when in sky, you don't have to use the move itself; you can also use another contact move at 50% extra power.
- Genesect: I'm against giving the forms a new typing, as the only physical difference between the forms is the drive plugged in. Speaking of which, drives should be no longer be held items, but rather key items you can use on genesect. (meaning the forms are now identical bar Techno Blast's typing)
- As I said before, I would give the butterflies (not the moths) an item that gives them an inherent Quiver Dance boost. (speaking of which, leave quiver dance as it is! We don't even know whether Volcorona will be ubers, and if so, so be it!) My problem with Gossamer Wing is that it's too specific, and that it doesn't change the fact that the bearers have terrible stats, and live in Venomoth's shadow.
- Toxic Boost should give the bearer a boost in Atk AND Speed when poisoned, to ensure this ability doesn't live in Guts's shadow, and to improve Zangoose dramatically. (Flare Boost obviously gets the same change)
- The sheer presence of any Stench pokemon on the field makes any non-poison/steel type loosing 1/8 of it's HP upon switching in.
- Color Change also modifies the type of any known Normal move
- For High Crit moves, Cross Chop and Stone Edge should get their accuracy pumped to 90%. To give the legendary AeroBlast/Spacial Rend more distinctive value, they gain a crit rate of +2. Also, CrabHammer deserves a power of 120, no high crit rate, but a flinch rate instead (why? ask Kingler)
- Meditate should gain some novelty in also increasing SpDef, as many mind based moves do.
- Focus Blast should gain an accuracy of 80% (NOT 50!)
- Superpower should gain a power boost to 130, to give it an edge over Close Combat. (Speaking of which, I don't like the nerf)
- Triple Kick should hit 3 times at 30 power. Simple as that. Don't see why GF had to screw it so badly.
- Iron Defense should double the weight.
- Chatter should have the following power table: 60 at low voice, 120 at mid voice and 180 at loud voice. Don't care about the confuse rate. (let's remove it)
- Heavy Slam and Dream Eater should gain a power boost of 50%, as these moves have pretty harsh conditions to get into their full potential. (plus, 120 is a very sad cap for HS)
- Jump kick sacrifies 33% of the user's HP when missing. It shouldn't be the same as HJK as it's weaker.
- Pay Day should have 70 power, which doubles when holding the Amulet Coin. I'm also proposing a Dark type if this mod allows move type changes.
- Some widely given suggestions for Wonder Guard and Run away: Wonder Guard should negate passive dammage, and Run Away should allow switching under any circumstance.
With regards to that recommended Wonder Guard change, I can say from experience that that alteration almost completely breaks Shedinja. It's insanely good with immunity to secondary damage.
With solid 6th Gen information out, I think it would be appropriate to implement the new moves as they are announced. We obviously don't know the movepools of 6th gen, but we can treat these new moves the same way as any others in this project; handing them out based on flavour and themes.
For example, I could see Dark-types like Skuntank, Honchkrow, Scrafty, and Zoroark getting Parting Shot based on the 'bad sportsmanship' theme of the move (and other factors for Skuntank) as well as some Fighting- and Ghost-types such as Primeape, Toxicroak, and Mismagius.
I could also see Parabolic Charge being as wide-spread to Electric-types as Giga Drain is to Grass-types. With Level-up or breeding movepools that is.
As for unreleased aspects of future attacks like Parabolic Charge's Base Power, it should probably be balanced like we would any other move until those details actually emerge.
Aside from that, I'm really surprised (and kinda disappointed) that Gen-NEXT doesn't have its own ladder yet, ranked or not. Any word on when we could expect that?
For example, I could see Dark-types like Skuntank, Honchkrow, Scrafty, and Zoroark getting Parting Shot based on the 'bad sportsmanship' theme of the move (and other factors for Skuntank) as well as some Fighting- and Ghost-types such as Primeape, Toxicroak, and Mismagius.
I could also see Parabolic Charge being as wide-spread to Electric-types as Giga Drain is to Grass-types. With Level-up or breeding movepools that is.
As for unreleased aspects of future attacks like Parabolic Charge's Base Power, it should probably be balanced like we would any other move until those details actually emerge.
Aside from that, I'm really surprised (and kinda disappointed) that Gen-NEXT doesn't have its own ladder yet, ranked or not. Any word on when we could expect that?
Just a small one.
Have Light Ball boost all of Pikachu's other stats.
(It boosted just Sp.Atk in Gen 3, and Sp.Atk and Attack in Gen 4. SO why not?)
Have Light Ball boost all of Pikachu's other stats.
(It boosted just Sp.Atk in Gen 3, and Sp.Atk and Attack in Gen 4. SO why not?)
Wait, Bummer made Rare Candy Treatment? Didn't know that.
Anyway, I've pushed out some updates to NEXT recently.
- Bonemerang and Bone Rush bypass immunities
- Kingdra gets sig BubbleBeam
- Eelektross gets sig Spark
- Beautifly gets sig Giga Drain
- Lilligant gets GossamerWing access
- type-specific item buffs to pure Grass, Poison, Fighting, and Psychic-types
- Big Root: also acts like Leftovers + Shell Bell for pure Grass types
- Black Sludge: heals 1/8 per turn for pure Poison types
- Focus Band: always works, but breaks after getting hit once for pure Fighting types (so basically it'd be a Sash that stays intact after residual damage); does nothing for other pokemon
- Wise Glasses: 1.2x Special damage for pure Psychic types
- Muscle Band: 1.2x Physical damage for pure Fighting types
- Rock Throw now removes Stealth Rock from the user's side of the field, and has 100% accuracy
- Rapid Spin now has 30 base power
- Rock Throw and Rapid Spin remove hazards before fainting from Rocky Helmet etc, and deal double damage when they do
Notes:
- Giving a Ground attack the ability to bypass immunities is uncannily strong. Technician Ambipom with Bonemerang and Fire Punch hits nearly everything for at least 150 ebp... it might be a good use of Sketch.
- Technician Ambipom also has a 135ebp Rapid Spin... it might be weird to see Rapid Spin do that much actual damage. Still, it uses up the Sketch slot. TechniTop also deals noticeable damage with Rapid Spin.
- Black Sludge Weezing should be pretty decent (remember it also gets sig Smog and Aftermath)
- Grass+GossamerWing resists a surprising amount. In addition to the EdgeQuake resistance, it loses Ice weakness, which makes Lilligant wall Electric and Water types unnaturally well... without SE HP Ice, Rotom-W's best option is now a resisted Hydro Pump.
- I'm considering changing Eelektross's ability: Hydration is a decent ability for a wall and 1/8 healing is a bit too common in NEXT these days
Notes about the thread:
- I'm opening this thread up to theorymonning and sets. Ideas for changes are still welcome.
- I won't incorporate gen 6 moves yet, partially because it requires teambuilder modding, which PS doesn't support yet
- Genesect transforming after the switch-in was implemented before SR was changed - it's been kept in because 1. Tspikes, and 2. reminds people that its type isn't Bug/Steel anymore
Anyway, I've pushed out some updates to NEXT recently.
- Bonemerang and Bone Rush bypass immunities
- Kingdra gets sig BubbleBeam
- Eelektross gets sig Spark
- Beautifly gets sig Giga Drain
- Lilligant gets GossamerWing access
- type-specific item buffs to pure Grass, Poison, Fighting, and Psychic-types
- Big Root: also acts like Leftovers + Shell Bell for pure Grass types
- Black Sludge: heals 1/8 per turn for pure Poison types
- Focus Band: always works, but breaks after getting hit once for pure Fighting types (so basically it'd be a Sash that stays intact after residual damage); does nothing for other pokemon
- Wise Glasses: 1.2x Special damage for pure Psychic types
- Muscle Band: 1.2x Physical damage for pure Fighting types
- Rock Throw now removes Stealth Rock from the user's side of the field, and has 100% accuracy
- Rapid Spin now has 30 base power
- Rock Throw and Rapid Spin remove hazards before fainting from Rocky Helmet etc, and deal double damage when they do
Notes:
- Giving a Ground attack the ability to bypass immunities is uncannily strong. Technician Ambipom with Bonemerang and Fire Punch hits nearly everything for at least 150 ebp... it might be a good use of Sketch.
- Technician Ambipom also has a 135ebp Rapid Spin... it might be weird to see Rapid Spin do that much actual damage. Still, it uses up the Sketch slot. TechniTop also deals noticeable damage with Rapid Spin.
- Black Sludge Weezing should be pretty decent (remember it also gets sig Smog and Aftermath)
- Grass+GossamerWing resists a surprising amount. In addition to the EdgeQuake resistance, it loses Ice weakness, which makes Lilligant wall Electric and Water types unnaturally well... without SE HP Ice, Rotom-W's best option is now a resisted Hydro Pump.
- I'm considering changing Eelektross's ability: Hydration is a decent ability for a wall and 1/8 healing is a bit too common in NEXT these days
Notes about the thread:
- I'm opening this thread up to theorymonning and sets. Ideas for changes are still welcome.
- I won't incorporate gen 6 moves yet, partially because it requires teambuilder modding, which PS doesn't support yet
- Genesect transforming after the switch-in was implemented before SR was changed - it's been kept in because 1. Tspikes, and 2. reminds people that its type isn't Bug/Steel anymore
Well since I can now, here goes...
Conkeldurr @ Leftovers
Trait: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
-Drain Punch
-Rock Throw
-Ice Punch
-Knock Off
Conkeldurr is arguably the best user of Rock Throw in the game (oddly, such a horrible move got such bad distribution). Drain Punch has STAB, decent power, and provides Conkeldurr the recovery it needs to stay healthy so it can consistently utilise Rock Throw to clear the field of the rocks. Rock Throw is the main selling point of the set, able to clear those pesky rocks from the field. Ice Punch provides coverage as Rock Throw's power can be a letdown when it isn't clearing rocks. Knock Off is an amazing utility move, able to knock away items such as Leftovers, Big Root, and Black Sludge to reduce recovery, while also removing powerful items such as Choice items and Life Orb, greatly reducing the damage output of the holders.
At first, this set may appear to be outclassed by Rapid Spin, as it clears Spikes and Toxic Spikes too. However, it has several advantages. Firstly, Rock Throw, when clearing rocks from the field, has a BP of 100; a number suitable for a coverage move, whereas Rapid Spin only has a measly 60. Secondly, unlike Forretress, Conkeldurr packs quite a punch (pun intended), and unlike Starmie, it can switch into physical attacks relatively comfortably. And lastly, to add insult to injury, Conkeldurr isn't even crippled by Burn, Poison or Paralysis! Conkeldurr doesn't particularly mind Paralysis, as it's already slow, and Burn and Poison have halved damage, meaning they are negated by Leftovers recovery. Not to mention that Conkeldurr gets a free 50% Attack boost, meaning that it heals even more from Drain Punch! Conkeldurr is a much bigger threat in a diffferent way in Gen-NEXT and should not be underestimated.
Conkeldurr @ Leftovers
Trait: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
-Drain Punch
-Rock Throw
-Ice Punch
-Knock Off
Conkeldurr is arguably the best user of Rock Throw in the game (oddly, such a horrible move got such bad distribution). Drain Punch has STAB, decent power, and provides Conkeldurr the recovery it needs to stay healthy so it can consistently utilise Rock Throw to clear the field of the rocks. Rock Throw is the main selling point of the set, able to clear those pesky rocks from the field. Ice Punch provides coverage as Rock Throw's power can be a letdown when it isn't clearing rocks. Knock Off is an amazing utility move, able to knock away items such as Leftovers, Big Root, and Black Sludge to reduce recovery, while also removing powerful items such as Choice items and Life Orb, greatly reducing the damage output of the holders.
At first, this set may appear to be outclassed by Rapid Spin, as it clears Spikes and Toxic Spikes too. However, it has several advantages. Firstly, Rock Throw, when clearing rocks from the field, has a BP of 100; a number suitable for a coverage move, whereas Rapid Spin only has a measly 60. Secondly, unlike Forretress, Conkeldurr packs quite a punch (pun intended), and unlike Starmie, it can switch into physical attacks relatively comfortably. And lastly, to add insult to injury, Conkeldurr isn't even crippled by Burn, Poison or Paralysis! Conkeldurr doesn't particularly mind Paralysis, as it's already slow, and Burn and Poison have halved damage, meaning they are negated by Leftovers recovery. Not to mention that Conkeldurr gets a free 50% Attack boost, meaning that it heals even more from Drain Punch! Conkeldurr is a much bigger threat in a diffferent way in Gen-NEXT and should not be underestimated.
Landorus-T (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Atk / 176 Def
Lax Nature (+Def, -SDef)
- Stealth Rock / Rock Throw
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Rock Throw / U-Turn
And this is probably the only other relevant user of Rock Throw. (It is a bleak list) He still does all those Landorus-T Intimidate things we all hate to fight; wall Fighting-types, check physicalDragons everything, and be a general pain, just now with the addition of removing Rocks. Immunity to all Spikes is another plus worth mentioning.
Dislike the slow spread? You can run as much speed as you need so long as you can still take hits well. (252 HP / 8 Def is the minimum EV spread for being 3HKO'd by CB Terrakion Stone Edge rather than 2HKO'd)
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Atk / 176 Def
Lax Nature (+Def, -SDef)
- Stealth Rock / Rock Throw
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Rock Throw / U-Turn
And this is probably the only other relevant user of Rock Throw. (It is a bleak list) He still does all those Landorus-T Intimidate things we all hate to fight; wall Fighting-types, check physical
Dislike the slow spread? You can run as much speed as you need so long as you can still take hits well. (252 HP / 8 Def is the minimum EV spread for being 3HKO'd by CB Terrakion Stone Edge rather than 2HKO'd)
I'll make some suggestions.
I. Signature Moves
Torterra: Wood Hammer- no recoil, 30% chance to boost Defense by 1
Magmortar: Fire Blast- perfect accuracy
Electivire: Wild Charge- 120 BP with a 30% paralysis rate; recoil still occurs
Lickilicky: Lick- 60 BP move with 1 50% paralysis rate
Starmie: Cosmic Power- +2 Def and +2 SpD
Blaziken: Sky Uppercut- 120 BP
Emboar: Heat Crash- flat 140 BP with a 25% recoil rate
Slowbro/Slowking: Amnesia- provides an additional +1 SpA
Katikiri- Joim's Lab has this ladder, even though the main server doesn't.
I. Signature Moves
Torterra: Wood Hammer- no recoil, 30% chance to boost Defense by 1
Magmortar: Fire Blast- perfect accuracy
Electivire: Wild Charge- 120 BP with a 30% paralysis rate; recoil still occurs
Lickilicky: Lick- 60 BP move with 1 50% paralysis rate
Starmie: Cosmic Power- +2 Def and +2 SpD
Blaziken: Sky Uppercut- 120 BP
Emboar: Heat Crash- flat 140 BP with a 25% recoil rate
Slowbro/Slowking: Amnesia- provides an additional +1 SpA
Katikiri- Joim's Lab has this ladder, even though the main server doesn't.
I have to say that many of these signature moves are borderline broken. These include Magmortar, Electivire, Blaziken and Emboar. I don't think you are taking into account that signature moves already buff the moves' power by giving them a powerful 1.5x modifier.
For example, Magmortar already has solid coverage, above average Special Attack, fair bulk and enough speed to outpace many walls. However, a 270 EBP (!) Fire Blast with perfect accuracy is a bit too much, dealing damage akin to a nuke. For reference, that is the same EBP as Victini's V-Create! These changes should be reconsidered and changed accordingly.
When people make suggestions like these, I wonder if they've read the part of the NEXT README that says:
"Some of these moves also receive other changes that apply to all Pokemon using the move - those changes are listed in parentheses."
I added another clarification in case people miss it the first time:
"Again, note that while the Signature Pokemon will get the 1.5x damage boost, all Pokemon will get the other changes to the move listed above."
Cosmic Power Sigilyph would be a bit overpowered with that change. And with that change to Fire Blast, no one would ever use Flamethrower.
Earlier in the thread it was suggested to make Shedinja immune to passive damage, so that it could actually live long enough to perhaps make using it worth while. What if instead we made it immune to hazards, but still open to other sorts of passive damage? That would allow it to get safely on the field without even breaking it's sash, giving it opportunities to live long enough to make itself useful.
Now that NEXT has a thriving community, I'm wondering if anyone on Smogon wants to talk about actually playing it.
As always, this is the NEXT overview: https://github.com/Zarel/Pokemon-Showdown/blob/master/mods/gennext/README.md
Shell Armor is pretty strong. Here's one of the strongest Shell Armor abusers:
Lapras @ Leftovers
Trait: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Curse
- Avalanche
- Waterfall
- Ice Shard / Drill Run
This Lapras basically doesn't die. Lapras is already pretty bulky but Shell Armor makes it take ~5% from nearly anything.
Here's my Ambipom:
Ambipom @ Expert Belt
Trait: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Fire Punch
- Bonemerang
- U-turn
Bonemerang may be a weird move to spend Sketch on, but now that it hits air, Bonemerang + Fire has perfect coverage. In fact, it has better than perfect coverage: it has perfect 150 coverage. Fire is super-effective against nearly everything that resists Bonemerang, so every single Pokémon takes at least 150 base power from one of the two moves (The only exceptions are Genesect-Water and Ludicolo).
As always, this is the NEXT overview: https://github.com/Zarel/Pokemon-Showdown/blob/master/mods/gennext/README.md
Shell Armor is pretty strong. Here's one of the strongest Shell Armor abusers:
Lapras @ Leftovers
Trait: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Curse
- Avalanche
- Waterfall
- Ice Shard / Drill Run
This Lapras basically doesn't die. Lapras is already pretty bulky but Shell Armor makes it take ~5% from nearly anything.
Here's my Ambipom:
Ambipom @ Expert Belt
Trait: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Fire Punch
- Bonemerang
- U-turn
Bonemerang may be a weird move to spend Sketch on, but now that it hits air, Bonemerang + Fire has perfect coverage. In fact, it has better than perfect coverage: it has perfect 150 coverage. Fire is super-effective against nearly everything that resists Bonemerang, so every single Pokémon takes at least 150 base power from one of the two moves (The only exceptions are Genesect-Water and Ludicolo).
"Shell Armor and Battle Armor reduce incoming move damage by 1/8 of the user's max HP in addition to their crit negation (also, Shell Armor is removed when using Shell Smash"
https://github.com/Zarel/Pokemon-Showdown/blob/master/mods/gennext/README.md
So how do you kill it??
https://github.com/Zarel/Pokemon-Showdown/blob/master/mods/gennext/README.md
So how do you kill it??
Doesn't Mold Breaker nullify Shell Armor?
If so, that could work. I'm just reading up on this meta, btw.
If so, that could work. I'm just reading up on this meta, btw.
Shell Armor is just 12% damage reduction (1/8 is 12%).
If, for instance, a Shell Armor mon has 35% HP left, making an attack that would otherwise do 47% to it will kill it... Or you can OHKO a Shell Armor mon with an attack that normally does at least 112%.
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