Media General Fighting Game Thread

Martin

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Gonna get a PS4+SC6 probably next weekend or smth when my new debit card arrives; I remember playing SC3 with my sister on my PS2 as a kid and it was a lot of fun so I'm looking forward to picking it up again and pissing around w/ it. The character customisation stuff looks insane too.
 
Guilty Gear is a load of fun. System is cool, soundtrack is kickass and character design is colorful. I just wish I a. knew of this franchise before in my life and b. had people to play with. So far I played both Xrd rev 2 and XX AC +R, and while Xrd obviously looks nicer, the soundtrack in XX is way too kickass to compare (and Robo-Ky is hilarious).
 

Martin

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I play Tekken 7 now. If anyone ever wants to play HMU on Discord; currently trying to learn Luchy Chloe and Alisa Bosconovich, although I’m also thinking of maybe giving King a shot at some point too bc he’s a sick Tiger Mask ripoff+ppl seem to really like him
 
I play Tekken 7 now. If anyone ever wants to play HMU on Discord; currently trying to learn Luchy Chloe and Alisa Bosconovich, although I’m also thinking of maybe giving King a shot at some point too bc he’s a sick Tiger Mask ripoff+ppl seem to really like him
PS4?
 

Surgo

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MK execution is supposed to be not hard but I actually have a pretty difficult time actually dialing in combos. Am I just old? Probably.

I miss ST.
 
So... anyonye gonna watch EVO 2k19?

Tournaments I'm stoked to watch from most to least: DBFZ > SamSho > SC6 > Tekken > others
 
i'm a little less thrilled about evo these days because there are some things that have bothered me about the scene in general, but i'm most excited for unist since that's my main game right now, and bbtag because i haven't really watched it much but it's a really fascinating game.
 

Martin

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SC6 season 2 is out as of today so if ur looking to start playing/pick it up again now’s the time to do it.

Also I got insanely lucky in a raffle and won MK11+Samurai Shodown (PS4). Not gonna bother trying to learn any 2D games until the fightstick I ordered arrives tho bc fUck doing inputs on a pad.

Anyway if anyone owns+fancies playing any of the games below hmu on forums/Discord. I can’t promise to be close to competent at any of them other than SC/Tekken rn but I also don’t mind being beat up on.
  • Tekken 7
  • Soul Calibur 6
  • BlazBlu: Central Fiction
  • BlazBlu Cross Tag Tournament
  • Dead or Alive 6
  • Pokken Tournament DX
  • Samurai Shodown
  • Mortal Kombat 11
Also buy Granblue Fantasy Versus whenever it launches. I’m gonna play that religiously probably.
 
I know I'm double posting here but kinda want to bump this thread bc of recent Evo announcements and stuff. Evo is happening online this year so they ended up picking four games with rollback netcode for their open tournaments, which is awesome. It seems like we're finally entering an era where devs understand the importance of good rollback netcode.

I've been playing a lot of Skullgirls lately in part because they recently improved its netcode, and since it's one of the four Evo tournaments a lot of people have been getting back into it. Dekillsage has been uploading some really enjoyable sets lately

 
Unrelated to current events, but I have a request. I would like to know why people are so fond of combos in their fighting games.

I like the concept of fighting games, that even if the actual objective is to reduce a single number to 0, there's a lot of positioning and some rescource management going on. Something like a real-time pokemon match. Combos don't seem to fit into that. They're something that you spend a lot of time on, but they don't add much depth to the descision-making process. In the pokemon comparison, I can't really find a more flattering comparison than IV breeding. I can definitely see reasons for other ways fighting games require massive amounts of input precision (more moves than normally fit on a controller, for one), but not combos. Given their prevalanece, there must be some reason people want combos in their games, but I really can't see it. I would like to get more into this genre, but because there's a central design point I can't understand, ARMS is basically the only fighting game I've gone beyond hyper-casual with.
 

Martin

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Unrelated to current events, but I have a request. I would like to know why people are so fond of combos in their fighting games.

I like the concept of fighting games, that even if the actual objective is to reduce a single number to 0, there's a lot of positioning and some rescource management going on. Something like a real-time pokemon match. Combos don't seem to fit into that. They're something that you spend a lot of time on, but they don't add much depth to the descision-making process. In the pokemon comparison, I can't really find a more flattering comparison than IV breeding. I can definitely see reasons for other ways fighting games require massive amounts of input precision (more moves than normally fit on a controller, for one), but not combos. Given their prevalanece, there must be some reason people want combos in their games, but I really can't see it. I would like to get more into this genre, but because there's a central design point I can't understand, ARMS is basically the only fighting game I've gone beyond hyper-casual with.
While I would personally like to see more poke-based fighters similar to Street Fighter 2 Turbo, the main reasons combo heavy games are so commo are:
  • Combos are flashy and many players, especially casuals, love that.
  • People like to watch feats of high technical skill—it’s much more impressive to watch someone pull off a string of attacks if they need to be done in a tight execution window, in the same way that Evo Moment #37 was impressive because of how hard it is to deal with that super under tournament pressure.
  • Multiple combo routes add other decisions in gameplay—do you go for the max damage combo that requires 3 frame perfect inputs, or do you go for a lower damage one that you know you won’t drop?
  • They introduce an amplified scale for different punish speeds, and in 2D fighters they increase reward/damage on successful pokes.
  • Their existence has some niche cultural significance.
If you wanna try sone fighters that focus less on combos and more on poking or even just raw attacks, I recommend giving Street Fighter 2 Turbo a shot, or for something more recent/active you could try Samurai Shodown. Both of these games have combos, but they are much shorter than in anime fighters and Tekken (a lot of SF2T is just stuff like crouching mid kick-->fireball), and in the case of Sam Sho there are lots of high-damage raw attacks such as Haohmaru’s Heavy Slash. There is also Soul Calibur 6, which is very easy to pick up and play (although very difficult to get good at if you want to move past casual level) and is much more focused on stuff like ooki traps and mixups rather than long combos (combos usually aren't longer than 2–4 hits, with the exception of some characters like Raphael, a small handful of lethal hit combos, etc.)

If you like arena fighters, you should probably try out Gundam Versus (and/or the new Gundam game that'll be coming out later this year). Same thing as the other two—combos exist, but a lot of the time you're much more focused on just hitting your opponent with attacks. This game is a total blast to play, especially casually, although if u go for the one that's out atm I'd say your best bet is to find a friend to play it with cuz ranked no longer exists and online play has mostly moved to public/private rooms and as such is kinda hit or miss if you're just looking to play with a random.
 
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There are other decisions combos add too, like going for hard knockdown vs more damage, spending meter vs not spending meter, resetting the combo or not, etc. Combos can also test situational awareness since you may have to adjust on the fly based on how/where you hit your opponent. I think the main reason people like them is that they just feel good to perform though lol

Is fightcade the main way people play ST? Is that like relatively easy to set up or does it take like actual effort, bc I've been meaning to get back into that game
 
Never would have guessed a version of SF2 would be less combo-heavy, its historic impact looms large it seems.

It does seem like there might be more than just a set string of inputs to combos, though I am nowhere near being capable of that kind of variation (chances are I'm more focused on my inputs than the situation around me). As for the entertainment value, I personally find good use of armor as a much larger hype generator.
 
Unrelated to current events, but I have a request. I would like to know why people are so fond of combos in their fighting games.

I like the concept of fighting games, that even if the actual objective is to reduce a single number to 0, there's a lot of positioning and some rescource management going on. Something like a real-time pokemon match. Combos don't seem to fit into that. They're something that you spend a lot of time on, but they don't add much depth to the descision-making process. In the pokemon comparison, I can't really find a more flattering comparison than IV breeding. I can definitely see reasons for other ways fighting games require massive amounts of input precision (more moves than normally fit on a controller, for one), but not combos. Given their prevalanece, there must be some reason people want combos in their games, but I really can't see it. I would like to get more into this genre, but because there's a central design point I can't understand, ARMS is basically the only fighting game I've gone beyond hyper-casual with.
This is difficult to answer in full because it varies a lot depending on the game in question. A key thing, though, is to not look at them in isolation. They are a big part of using risk-reward to evaluate your options. What combos are available to you can vary a lot based on things like spacing, hitconfirms, proximity normals, corner, resources, counterhit, crouching, frame (dis)advantage, etc. Here are some (simplified) examples to better illustrate what I'm trying to say:

- Something like Gouki's tatsu can combo off of a canceled normal only if you are close enough for the first hit of the tatsu to connect. This means that something like low forward xx tatsu is less effective as a poking tool than as a follow up to a jump in.
- Similar to above, your basic light, light xx super confirms might require you to be pointblank when you use the first light if you want the second light to reach. So even though the pushback and frame advantage for your hypothetical character's close medium allows you to frame trap with their low short, if the second light whiffs then that combo isn't really an option and you would need to rely on other buttons for that situation.
- Set play characters can use their giant balls of fire/puppets/whatever to open up a much greater variety of potential hitconfirmable combo starters when they get the sort of knockdowns that allow them to setup. There's also stuff like Urien's/Oro's/Denjin Ryu's unblockables that play a big factor in what moves those characters like and the risks they will be willing to take to get the ideal knockdown.
- A lot of characters will have pokes that can cancel into a really rewarding combo but the poke itself isn't hitconfirmable and the the cancel is unsafe on block. This limits how you would use that cancel; aggressively fishing for a low forward hit is something a Chun-li could do but another character would have to buffer their cancel behind a poke that will whiff unless the opponent just happens to walk forward. (and therefore, won't be blocking) There's also sometimes option selects like DED.
- Proximity normals are often designed so that they are plus on block and hitconfirmable as opposed to their far counterparts. Sometimes far normals can't even cancel/combo into anything at all. A good example is Gouki standing forward; far forward can't cancel into anything and is negative on hit while his close forward +2 on block and gives you enough frame advantage on hit to link into SA1 from a hitconfirm.
- Some extra rewarding combos are only possible in the corner. Granblue is an excellent example of this as it's basically a universal rule. For example, a midscreen combo for Zeta is basically always going to be the hitconfirm canceled into 66L/H or super while in the corner she gets to dump 3-4 ex moves into an easy safejump setup. In other games, powerful corner specific combos might be the trademark of specific characters as opposed to a general rule. This gives designers a way to differentiate character playstyles as those sort of characters will value corner carry more in their combos as opposed to routes that may give slightly better oki/dmg/stun etc, for example. Blockstrings/pokes that have strong pushback gain value as safe ways to progressively push the opponent towards the corner as do some predictable throw setups where teching the throw pushes the defending player away (and into the corner).
- Third strike Chun-li is notorious for a lot of reasons, one of the big reasons being her SA2 and all the amazing buttons she has to hitconfirm into it. However, when she doesn't have meter her damage is a lot weaker. This further fuels into her typically defensive playstyle in most matchups as you want safely build meter by whiffing buttons, stuffing enemy attacks with her pokes, and whiff punishing with moves like her fierce. Once she has the meter, the threat of her SA2 makes her kara-throw vs strike mixup game A LOT more threatening and her pokes can be used much more aggressively as well.
- Some games give frame advantage when you counterhit an opponent and/or if you hit them crouching. Some moves (like Gouki's tatsu) can whiff if the character is crouching (assuming they are small enough). For counterhits, some combos are only possible when you get that counterhit advantage (either because the followup needs the extra frames of stun or the counterhit state gives you a more reliable hitconfirm) and that impacts what blockstrings a character will tend to focus on as well as how much they value situations that allow them to threaten those sort of mixups. The possible extra frame advantage from crouching works the same way but it can also incentivize hitconfirms that give you extra time to confirm if the enemy was caught crouching or standing. Moves that force standing may also become the central tool in that character's blockstrings and combo routes.

This could go on forever. I've mostly focused on examples typical to 2D street fighter-esque type games which is a really limited scope in the greater whole of the fighting game genre. Anime/3D/Team fighters have very different combo systems (that further varies between games within the specific genres) that allows for unique ways to design gameplay and characters. You just have to try a bit of everything until you find whatever it is that you like best.

Check out Killer Instinct btw if you are interested in a game where interaction mid-combo is a prominent feature. (there's also things like Guilty Gear/Blazblue Burst) Also, there's the Smash games for options that stray from traditional fighters.
 
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Martin

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Never would have guessed a version of SF2 would be less combo-heavy, its historic impact looms large it seems.

It does seem like there might be more than just a set string of inputs to combos, though I am nowhere near being capable of that kind of variation (chances are I'm more focused on my inputs than the situation around me). As for the entertainment value, I personally find good use of armor as a much larger hype generator.
For what it’s worth, combos are largely just a matter of muscle memory. I thought I’d have the same issue when I first got into fighting games, but after a few games of getting used to using the combo in context on ranked, I was able to change the way I processed the inputs.

I stopped thinking in terms of:
UF4,4–>WS1,2,3–>D4,1+2–>D3~1
And started thinking in terms of:
“Hop kick combo” or “i15 punisher”

The way learn to use them is to learn to do them in training mode and to make them a string of inputs you do automatically. If you have them as an automatic thing you will find that you don’t think about them in games, in the same way that after a while you stop thinking in terms of a 623 motion and start thinking in terms of “Dragon Punch motion.”

I find that 3D fighters are often more intuitive/accessible wrt combos than a lot of 2D fighters are bc they tend to come off of launchers/counter hits/lethal hits in Soul Calibur/similar rather than pokes and as such are more a matter of reacting to a hit connecting rather than anticipating it. It’s also worth remembering that you don’t need to go for max damage or optimal routes if you think you’d function better with something shorter or less demanding or otherwise compress combo routes that differ between launchers to one that you apply to multiple.

Based on what you’ve been saying, I feel like you’re probably looking to poke more than anything, and this is definitely something you can accommodate for even in FGs with longer combos if you just pick the right character. I’m not knowledgeable enough about any 2D fighters to recommend starting points for them, but if you pick up Tekken 7 I recommend trying a character like Alisa, Bryan, Kazumi, or Jack, and if you pick up Soul Calibur 6 I recommend trying out Geralt, Mitsurugi, or Sophitia.
 
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Martin

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I recently bought Street Fighter V if anyone wants to game with me. Just using Ryu ATM bc I’m a total 2D noob hahaha. Also looking for ppl to SamSho with bc ranked is dead.
 
^ If I secure an actual income any time soon I def want to try out SFV at some point, if only because Dhalsim seems so, so interesting.

Anyway the main reason I'm posting is just because I'm sad about all the recent assault/abuse allegations in FGC/Smash and needed to vent about it. At least we're getting rid of these people but just ugh
 

Plague von Karma

Banned deucer.
I didn't know this thread existed but I'll just be making myself at home...

I'm a pretty big fan of fighting games, if it's not Pokemon it's these. First games were Darkstalkers 3 and KoF 2002, which were on imported arcade machines in some shop I think? This was a long time ago. Darkstalkers 3 ended up being my favourite, with Hsien-Ko becoming my first "main". Stuck with her in any game she's in since, yes even MvC3. I've played some of the older Street Fighter games, loved Super SFII T. Hawk, but SFV feels like watching paint dry so I've kind of turned off from the series.

I've kind of preferred 2D fighters with the sprites and CPS3 vibes, can't really get with the ones with 3D models for some reason. No clue why. Closest I've got to clicking with a modern fighter is KoF14 with Antonov being the beefcake that he is. Even met up with InfernoKong one time and saw some of his cool stuff with the character, it was kind of mind-blowing lol.

I'm currently interested in how the new Guilty Gear will turn out but if Jack-o doesn't arrive idk who I'd end up playing. She's kind of the only character there I could vibe with, idk? Maybe I just need to expand my horizons.
 

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