Do you think that Deoxys-D will become the new Deoxys-S?
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General Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter Matthew
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No way. Deo-S was so good at its job to that incredible Speed. It could move before almost anything else (dat Scarf Terra). Deo-D works best on stallish teams, because it gives you absolutely zero offensive momentum. It's slow enough to be Taunted and it lacks the stats to kill its checks. Deo-D is a good defensive 'mon, but it doesn't belong on offensive teams at all.
They're completely different. Deo-D is bulky and slower (calling him slow isn't true, base 90 is pretty damn fast for a wall). He could set up, but it's not for sure like Deo-S was.
Pokemon that might replace Deo-S are Azelf and Alakazam due to their speed. However, they won't do nearly as good as Deo-S due to the fact they wont outspeed everything like Deo-S did. (Electrode, why don't you have Reflect? You'd be near perfect. :( )
And auto-weather
And Salamence
And all 5th Gen moves
And Hydregion
And Conkeldurr
And Volcarona
And Air Baloon
While we're at it, let's ban all 5th Gen mons too
I hope that made you realise the folly of that statement.
Deo-S was massivly unhealthy for the metagame as soon as it stoped centralising on stopping an Excadrill sweep. Without Excadrill centralisation, bulky setup became more and more common, and something every bulky offense loves is easy screens and/or hazards, which Deo-S provided.
Bulky DD Nite behind screens. That is all that needs to be said. Then throw in Terrakion, Volcarona, Scizor, and any other threatening sweeper which has respeciable bulk.
In a Bulky Offense v Bulky Offense game, it would be decided in the first turn, based on which Deo-S won the speed tie and taunted. And most other playstyles would get run over.
Deo-S was blatently unhealthy for the meta, just glanceing at the recent stats shows how it warped it.
Hopefully, hopefully, now we shouldn't need any more bans. Bulk Offense with Deo-S support was the big issue. Before, it was Excadrill rending whole playstyles unplayable by his existance [When a pokemon does that, you know he needs to go]
Most things in the metagame can be handled. Lati@s? Tyraniatar and Scizor are good still. Ferrothorn is a brilliant check, and with the power creep, the 'D-2 bomber' can't come in as much. Dragonite? Rocks, Sand, any form of passive damage... or hit him on the switch, as soon as multi-scale breaks you may as well be using Salamence... or Haxorus. Rain? People have made a plenthora of checks for it [Although I'm still opposed for it, I can actually see the case for it in OU now, unlike at the start of B/W]
Yea if only Electrode had Reflect and Stealth Rocks would be a great replacement or even better if Ninjask got them.
Ninjask..... With Reflect...... No.... Just, no... Just....
Oh wait, Explosion got nerfed.
While I do agree with this (I love Deo-D), he will never replace Deo-S simply because Deo-S roll was either laying down spikes or getting both screens up for HO teams. While Deo-S can lay down spikes and put some screens up, he's more comparable to Uxie/Cress (dual screening) and Ferrothorn (spikes) than Deo-S in regards that he functions as a durable spiker/screener but isn't suppose to lead and pull them off instantly. Not to mention he doesn't have the offensive presence to lay down some pressure on the opponent, something HO needs.
Deoxys-D will most likely be the most fitting hazard layer for HO teams to replace Deoxys-S actually. What other mons possess SR, Spikes, and Taunt? 90 Base Speed is pretty darn fast for a defensive mon, and now that Deoxys-S is out of the picture, there wont be many faster Taunters than Deoxys-D. If it goes Jolly, it can certainly prevent most offensive mons from setting up, barring Volcarona / Salamence. It's bulk will come in handy to survive hits from Scarftar that will prey on Azelf. Deoxys-D will have trouble with a potential increased usage of Espeon, but that's a problem that Deoxys-S had to deal with, too.
I could see some other UU options impartially filling the hole made by the absence of Deoxys-S in HO teams. SR Azelf (115 Speed, Taunt, Dual Screens) + Offensive Spiker Roserade works; so can SR Mamoswine + Spikes Froslass (110 Speed, usable STAB, fast Taunt, blocks Rapid Spin). Bascially 2 mons to fill Deoxys-S's role.
I could see some other UU options impartially filling the hole made by the absence of Deoxys-S in HO teams. SR Azelf (115 Speed, Taunt, Dual Screens) + Offensive Spiker Roserade works; so can SR Mamoswine + Spikes Froslass (110 Speed, usable STAB, fast Taunt, blocks Rapid Spin). Bascially 2 mons to fill Deoxys-S's role.
incidentally, deo-d can also be outsped.
There hasn't been an outcry Terrakion, ever, so what would be the point of the council making a move towards banning it? Under the suspect test system, possible bans (via suspect tests) were periodic, so cases such as Excadrill and Thundurus popped up time and time again. We're not going to waste our time testing a Pokemon that clearly isn't broken, being checked by plenty of common and viable Pokemon whose niche isn't countering Terrakion (Scizor, Landorus, Gliscor).
The metagame has settled down quite a bit - it probably wont be shaken until new Dream mons are released / Gray comes out. There's no particular play-style that is overpowered, although Volt-Turn Sand teams are rather common. I would even say that this stable period is a good period to re-test some of the more questionable suspect like Thundurus and re-affirm its Uber status. This is a sticky issue, though, so it's probably not worth the hassle.
I think Baton Pass should be put up for suspect. There is literally no way to stop Vaporeon from getting to +6 Defense, Baton Pass to Gliscor, which gets up to +6 Speed and Attack, Baton Pass to Espeon which gets up to +6 Sp. Atk and Sp. Def, and destroys your team. This is only one scenario, but it can happen against any type of team.
This thread has been dead for a while because good things are good and that's kind of the end of discussion. I agree with Pocket, however, a shake-up is definitely needed.
This thread has been dead for a while because good things are good and that's kind of the end of discussion. I agree with Pocket, however, a shake-up is definitely needed.
So the opposing team is doing absolutely nothing while the Baton Pass team sets up and wins? You can Taunt and watch as the chain can't even start up, phaze them early on in the chain, or just hammer them with extremely powerful attacks so they can't accumulate boosts. And before you say that Espeon takes care of Taunting and phazing, Espeon can't do shit without a large accumulation of boosts, so you should be able to take care of it with ease.
Tyranitar with Roar is a good answer to Baton Pass. Espeon is scared to switch in and eat a possible crunch.
Also I haven't played in the metagame recently but the last time I did all I had to do was pressure it with high power attacks early on to beat it (like using Specs Hurricane early on with Tornadus.)
And like always Perish song is a good answer, but you have to be wary of Mr.Mine.
But like I said I haven't played in a while so I apologize if my strategies against Baton Pass are outdated.
Also I haven't played in the metagame recently but the last time I did all I had to do was pressure it with high power attacks early on to beat it (like using Specs Hurricane early on with Tornadus.)
And like always Perish song is a good answer, but you have to be wary of Mr.Mine.
But like I said I haven't played in a while so I apologize if my strategies against Baton Pass are outdated.
I've gotten further with stall now than any other time before this. There are still some very fearsome sweepers out there that are very hard to check, but not to the point where you can't skirt around them. There aren't any super powerful threats, like Excadrill and Thunderus, where you have to resort to very specific counters to check (gliscor and gastrodon respectively). I hope in the usage statistics they answer what the percentage of playstyles are, since I have heard a lot people on the forum say "stall is on the rise". I wonder if that is really true.
On to a more specific topic, how do you guys feel as Donphan as a spinner outside of sun? What makes him OU this gen (other than sun) that he wasn't last gen? In my experience he has done a great job of getting the spin off against Sand teams, an Ice Shard that's beefed up a bit goes a long way against Landorus and Dragons. I guess it was just an amount of time before a spinner would get siphoned into OU, the lack of spinners was actually one of the first topics in this thread >_>
Lastly do you think the new OU's will stay and some old ones will go? Come to UU Scrafty, we have open arms!
I'm not sure if this what you're talking about but I found this...
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3984874&postcount=2
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4034933&postcount=6
And it shows stall declined. :/
Yes this is what I'm talking about. We're still missing this month's. If it falls it again interesting trend seeing how people think it is coming back
Whilst it may seem a good idea to lead with your cb haxorus/ dragonite/ terrakion against a bp chain, that is the last thing you want to do.
Once that outrage confusion sets in, or stone edge misses or, a fighting resist takes that close combat, you have just given your opponent a free turn. And the one thing you do not want to do versus a baton pass team is give them a free turn.
well, you don't really have to lead with terrakion / dragonite / haxorus:
basically, with terrakion, you're looking to eliminate their celebi / ninjask then sweep with terrakion since cb cc kills everything else usually.
leading with dnite isn't that bad, imo, because if they lead with ninjask then you can espeed, then either ninjask becomes useless or they switch to someone who can tank an espeed, but when they switch to their celebi / vaporeon, they'll be at like 70% without any boosts; the most they will get to is probably +2 def or +1 spatk / +1 spdef: this is easily manageable - if they send in vaporeon, send in a specs latios to nuke them, while if they send in celebi, then you can send in something like cb scizor to u-turn on them.
although i guess i just run more choice users than is usual lol
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