All the rage has been posting proposed ban lists, joshe and I talked about this, we like it:
Arceus
Darkrai
Deoxys
Deoxys-A
Deoxys-S
Dialga
Giratina
Giratina-o
Groudon
Ho-oh
Kyogre
Lugia
Mewtwo
Palkia
Rayquaza
Reshiram
Wobbuffet
Wynaut
Zekrom
---
Pokemon that should not be on ban list but should be prioritized and addressed in a stabilized metagame:
Shanderaa (Shadow Tag)
Doryuuzu
Latios / Latias (Soul Dew?)
Shaymin-s
Garchomp (Sand Veil)
Manaphy
Mew
Deoxys-D
It seems extremely standard but the key idea here was to try and leave any questionable Pokemon off the list, and make them priority Pokemon to judge.
3/4 Deoxys forms are listed, 2 of which have Attack, Special Attack, and Speed well above almost every Pokemon, while the other has the highest Speed stat in the game. All 3 have access to entry hazards and their high Speed gives them an easy advantage to getting them up. And we used Deoxys-s in OU multiple times last gen, telling ourselves it wouldn't be terrible, but it continued to be amazing. I would not argue with putting Deoxys-s on questionable though if more people feel that way, but prior experience is something to consider, let's not make the same mistakes again (ie: every team leads with Deoxys to get up early entry hazards or double screens).
However, the last form (Deoxys-D), is much slower and will now be a part of a metagame that hits harder and faster than the previous, just as DPPT did compared to Advance. And as the other Deoxys formes all have niches which contribute to why they might be considered broken, Deoxys-D does not have the Special Attack or Speed to set it apart from any other Pokemon in Black/White. The real question will be "can its defenses hold up vs B/W threats". With a worse typing than Lugia and a much lower HP stat, this is a Pokemon to keep an eye on but is definitely questionable enough that it should be properly tested and decided on before immediately placing it in Ubers.
Skip down to Lugia - Lugia can wall just as many Pokemon as before, and as Jabba put it, "We didn't think Blissey would be a wall again in 4th generation". Lugia has fantastic stats and typing (Don't forget it has a 4x resist to Fighting and an immunity to Ground) and has a very potent Speed stat and a strong Special Movepool, Calm Mind, and stats that now turn it into a ferocious special sweeper as well.
The last 2 Pokemon who may raise some eyebrows are Wobbuffet and Wynaut. There is no ability as unbalanced as Shadow Tag, but I can agree it isn't enough to ban a Pokemon. What is enough is Shadow Tag combined with fantastic HP, Encore, and Mirror Coat/Counter. I know people are going to get mad at Wynaut, but Wynaut is basically Wobbuffet with slighty worse stats. However, Wynaut possesses something that puts it right up to par with Wobbuffet: Pre-evolution Stone. Although it now lacks Leftovers, Wynaut can now take hits extremely well, and functions almost exactly as Wobbuffet.
All the questionable Pokemon were banned last generation with the exception of 2 Black and White Pokemon who should be immediately inspected. Shadow Tag Shanderaa traps and can completely ruin teams, although it is not as great as Wynaut or Wobbuffet. Maybe Shadow Tag is what is at fault here though? I think the ability itself should be tested. Doryuuzu is fantastic with Sand Throw, but doesn't require a ban. However, common sense says that it will be a Pokemon to keep an eye on.
Finally, I'd like to throw a mention out to Ditto. It serves many new roles to teams, acting as a check to any Pokemon, being able to scout a Pokemon's moveset and set easily, and destroying the concept of setting up. Ditto is a great Pokemon that should serve as a very useful check, but let's make sure we discuss it appropiately and make a stand on it early so we don't have to deal with Ditto discussion later.
Arceus
Darkrai
Deoxys
Deoxys-A
Deoxys-S
Dialga
Giratina
Giratina-o
Groudon
Ho-oh
Kyogre
Lugia
Mewtwo
Palkia
Rayquaza
Reshiram
Wobbuffet
Wynaut
Zekrom
---
Pokemon that should not be on ban list but should be prioritized and addressed in a stabilized metagame:
Shanderaa (Shadow Tag)
Doryuuzu
Latios / Latias (Soul Dew?)
Shaymin-s
Garchomp (Sand Veil)
Manaphy
Mew
Deoxys-D
It seems extremely standard but the key idea here was to try and leave any questionable Pokemon off the list, and make them priority Pokemon to judge.
3/4 Deoxys forms are listed, 2 of which have Attack, Special Attack, and Speed well above almost every Pokemon, while the other has the highest Speed stat in the game. All 3 have access to entry hazards and their high Speed gives them an easy advantage to getting them up. And we used Deoxys-s in OU multiple times last gen, telling ourselves it wouldn't be terrible, but it continued to be amazing. I would not argue with putting Deoxys-s on questionable though if more people feel that way, but prior experience is something to consider, let's not make the same mistakes again (ie: every team leads with Deoxys to get up early entry hazards or double screens).
However, the last form (Deoxys-D), is much slower and will now be a part of a metagame that hits harder and faster than the previous, just as DPPT did compared to Advance. And as the other Deoxys formes all have niches which contribute to why they might be considered broken, Deoxys-D does not have the Special Attack or Speed to set it apart from any other Pokemon in Black/White. The real question will be "can its defenses hold up vs B/W threats". With a worse typing than Lugia and a much lower HP stat, this is a Pokemon to keep an eye on but is definitely questionable enough that it should be properly tested and decided on before immediately placing it in Ubers.
Skip down to Lugia - Lugia can wall just as many Pokemon as before, and as Jabba put it, "We didn't think Blissey would be a wall again in 4th generation". Lugia has fantastic stats and typing (Don't forget it has a 4x resist to Fighting and an immunity to Ground) and has a very potent Speed stat and a strong Special Movepool, Calm Mind, and stats that now turn it into a ferocious special sweeper as well.
The last 2 Pokemon who may raise some eyebrows are Wobbuffet and Wynaut. There is no ability as unbalanced as Shadow Tag, but I can agree it isn't enough to ban a Pokemon. What is enough is Shadow Tag combined with fantastic HP, Encore, and Mirror Coat/Counter. I know people are going to get mad at Wynaut, but Wynaut is basically Wobbuffet with slighty worse stats. However, Wynaut possesses something that puts it right up to par with Wobbuffet: Pre-evolution Stone. Although it now lacks Leftovers, Wynaut can now take hits extremely well, and functions almost exactly as Wobbuffet.
All the questionable Pokemon were banned last generation with the exception of 2 Black and White Pokemon who should be immediately inspected. Shadow Tag Shanderaa traps and can completely ruin teams, although it is not as great as Wynaut or Wobbuffet. Maybe Shadow Tag is what is at fault here though? I think the ability itself should be tested. Doryuuzu is fantastic with Sand Throw, but doesn't require a ban. However, common sense says that it will be a Pokemon to keep an eye on.
Finally, I'd like to throw a mention out to Ditto. It serves many new roles to teams, acting as a check to any Pokemon, being able to scout a Pokemon's moveset and set easily, and destroying the concept of setting up. Ditto is a great Pokemon that should serve as a very useful check, but let's make sure we discuss it appropiately and make a stand on it early so we don't have to deal with Ditto discussion later.
