Pokémon Genesect (Read the OP pls)

[EJ190]

So i've done some battles & energy ball is a legit option for gene. So many people switch rotomw against genesect only to get crippled/kod by it. Something to watch out for is that spdef rotom can survive a eball since gene doesn't get the spatk boost.
Not running tbolt leaves you walled by talon/gyarados which sucks megaballs but a teammate like mandi means this isn't that big of an issue. It also kos the various water/grounds which is great. Beside, its not like tbolt does much to heatran anyways.

 

[Star]

So i've done some battles & energy ball is a legit option for gene. So many people switch rotomw against genesect only to get crippled/kod by it. Something to watch out for is that spdef rotom can survive a eball since gene doesn't get the spatk boost.
Not running tbolt leaves you walled by talon/gyarados which sucks megaballs but a teammate like mandi means this isn't that big of an issue. It also kos the various water/grounds which is great. Beside, its not like tbolt does much to heatran anyways.

Obviously Heatran stone walls Genesect but U-turn seems to be a much better option against Rotom-W as it can most likely tank an Energy Ball and can Will-o-Wisp back which greatly hampers Genesect's longevity and ability to smack hard with U-turn.

 

[EJ190]

Obviously Heatran stone walls Genesect but U-turn seems to be a much better option against Rotom-W as it can most likely tank an Energy Ball and can Will-o-Wisp back which greatly hampers Genesect's longevity and ability to smack hard with U-turn.

Gene ohkos physically def rotomw with no hazards and that set is really common. Hence the reason im using it...getting rid of an opponents rotom in one hit is amazing since that thing is a bitch for me.

 

[PkMn Gravija]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-77063597

Abusing Genesect on the ladder with one of its old partners Traptrio, Dugtrio immediately eliminates the one threat to a genesect sweep on the team and then I just lolsy play around with my sub puncher mega zard x before an inevitable forfeit. Which I don't blame them for, only a few turns in and genesect and dugtrio had got me all the momentum in the match. Genesect is a monster and should be a certain something I'm not allowed to discuss :P

The most alarming thing about this is that my team had no real synergy that I can think of, mandibuzz was just randomly thrown on for defog, charizard x is because I'm testing flare blitz, focus punch, roost, sub. Rotom-w is just thrown on to counter talonflames and talonflame is on the team because why not? Once any counter to gene has been eliminated by dugtrio, genesect is gonna most likely sweep any team anyway :/

 

[Alejandro36]

Focus sash seems like a risky thing. Had that infernape had mach punch it would not have worked. Plus it only works at the very beggining of the match (unless you defog first). Still, being able to trap and OHKO heatran seems good enough (unless you take a burn from the lavaplume, which will happen 30% of the time).

 

[Helix]

What do you guys think of a mixed set? This set is copying the same logic in the greninja forum for max damage output.
Genesect @ Choice Scarf/Expert belt
Ability: Download
EV: 88 Atk / 168 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive / Hasty Nature
- U-turn
- Flamethrower
- Ice Beam
- Flash Cannon / Extreme Speed / Thunderbolt

The attack evs are for uturn and anything else you decide to add (e speed). I think it should have potential it also makes each download trigger live.

 

[TKGriffiths]

What do you guys think of a mixed set? This set is copying the same logic in the greninja forum for max damage output.
Genesect @ Choice Scarf/Expert belt
Ability: Download
EV: 88 Atk / 168 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive / Hasty Nature
- U-turn
- Flamethrower
- Ice Beam
- Flash Cannon / Extreme Speed / Thunderbolt

The attack evs are for uturn and anything else you decide to add (e speed). I think it should have potential it also makes each download trigger live.

This set's almost identical to the bog standard choice scarf set except for the seemingly random EV allocation, do they serve any specific purpose or did you just choose them randomly?

 

[Schpoonman]

I think he just ripped one of Greninja's EV spreads verbatim. Those EVs work very specifically for Greninja with Protean, so they don't apply. Run either full offenses in one stat or specify to Genesect's stats, like X number of Attack EVs to deal Y amount of damage with U-turn to target Z.

 

[Helix]

I think he just ripped one of Greninja's EV spreads verbatim. Those EVs work very specifically for Greninja with Protean, so they don't apply. Run either full offenses in one stat or specify to Genesect's stats, like X number of Attack EVs to deal Y amount of damage with U-turn to target Z.

I stated in my post i wanted to copy the exact same logic. You are right though, i was not taking into account it was already bug/download bonus. I agree now that you should max special attack.

 

[Ryuuki]

I stated in my post i wanted to copy the exact same logic. You are right though, i was not taking into account it was already bug/download bonus. I agree now that you should max special attack.

I've also tried one mixed set with U-turn, Espeed, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt/Flamethrower, and choice scarf with max speed and a mix between sp.atk and atk in gen 5 übers. it worked decently even with a more optimal spread (which I sadly have forgotten), but generaly deciding if you're going to run special or physical are better in the end. But it have some nice suprice value and can work well when you suddenly revenge kill something with Espeed.

 

[Schpoonman]

I stated in my post i wanted to copy the exact same logic. You are right though, i was not taking into account it was already bug/download bonus. I agree now that you should max special attack.

The exact same logic would be that you tune the EVs to exactly what Genesect needs. As it stands you just ripped Greninja's spread verbatim without understanding the logic behind the numbers. I know WHAT you said. And I never said Genesect should have max Special Attack, my favorite set right now is the Choice Band set, I said you should max one attack stat or the other based on your moveset, or tailor the EVs, like the minds in the Greninja thread did, to get exactly the KOs you need. If an EV spread isn't 252/252/4 in whatever stats, do try to understand what the set author was going for.

 

[Helix]

Thanks for clearing the confuson, this is my first gen with trying to get into competitive battling and im trying to grasp it.

 

[Calm_Mind_Latias]

I've also tried one mixed set with U-turn, Espeed, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt/Flamethrower, and choice scarf with max speed and a mix between sp.atk and atk in gen 5 übers. it worked decently even with a more optimal spread (which I sadly have forgotten), but generaly deciding if you're going to run special or physical are better in the end. But it have some nice suprice value and can work well when you suddenly revenge kill something with Espeed.

I could only justify using ExtremeSpeed if it has maximum physical attack investment.

 

[Masttershake]

I could only justify using ExtremeSpeed if it has maximum physical attack investment.

Espeed is mandatory on banded sets

 

[banditking15]

With threats like Talonflame, Heatran, and Infernape all prevalant in this metagame, you would think that Genesect would have a hard time doing its job. I don't think its going to pass a suspect test anytime soon. However, this means that Dugtrio with arena trap, makes an excellent teammate. Genesect is a monster, and pairing it with Dugtrio and rotom-W is disgustingly good. I get shivers thinking about how loling around on showdown can show you the pure stupidity that genesect can pull off in the right hands, But its so easy to bait in. People automatically go "Well i can't beat Xpoke with my Ypoke and therefore im gonna go to Genesect and thatll deal with it." Are there any other things that genesect needs to watch out for?

 

[WebBowser]

I found lead phys defensive wobbuffet to be pretty effective check for genesect leads. I send in wobbu, they send in gene, gene gets scared and u-turns out, I ohko the next guy with counter. I know that's not a strict definition of "counter", but I force out the guy I'm trying to scare away and I kill the next guy (assuming it's not a ghost), with > 50% hp to boot. If he does anything else (cept maybe bug buzz, I forget how much that does), then wobb survives and I can send out something for some free momentum, like Rotom-H for instance.

Also, if all you're doing with genesect is u-turn spam, just run CB ninjask. He's just as fast, can run adamant, bypasses subs, and hurts more unless gene gets the download boost or is running a band (in which case ninjask outspeeds).

 

[Merritt]

Also, if all you're doing with genesect is u-turn spam, just run CB ninjask. He's just as fast, can run adamant, bypasses subs, and hurts more unless gene gets the download boost or is running a band (in which case ninjask outspeeds).

The only difference is that Genesect might be able to take a hit from a priority attack or actually do something when U-turn isn't the best option against the opponent. Also, it can't deal with rocks, while Genesect can, to an extent.

Also, 252 attack scarf does more damage, if barely.

252+ Atk Choice Band Ninjask U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 34-41 (8.8 - 10.6%)

+1 252 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 38-45 (9.8 - 11.6%)

 

[WebBowser]

The only difference is that Genesect might be able to take a hit from a priority attack or actually do something when U-turn isn't the best option against the opponent. Also, it can't deal with rocks, while Genesect can, to an extent.

Also, 252 attack scarf does more damage, if barely.

252+ Atk Choice Band Ninjask U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 34-41 (8.8 - 10.6%)

+1 252 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 38-45 (9.8 - 11.6%)

Assuming download boost, which is not always the case (I kind of dislike how this forum treats download as a free choice band/specs with no drawbacks, it's not parental bond folks).

Also, Ninjask can take a mach punch surprisingly well, but anything else (except maybe an unstabbed, unboosted base 40) and it's boned.

Agreed with SR, I'd be a fool to argue with that, though it's immune to every other entry hazard for what it's worth.

Banded Night Slash is surprisingly effective against subbed ghosts though, and AAce can net the occasional surprise KO on a grass, bug or fighting type, especially trenevant, breloom and gourgeist, but otherwise agreed with that gene is overall more effective in his non u-turn options, especially special scarf (not entirely convinced that phys scarf gene has better coverage then ninjask, but he does have harder hitting moves and the ability to run special moves anyway).

Once either of them are locked into a move though, checking them is almost trivial because of the problem that plagues all choice users, so you better have a KO to show for it or else bye bye momentum.

Anyway, the point of all this is not really to try and argue Ninjask > Genesect (because that's blatantly false, and we all know it), it's to say that 1. if all you want to do with a Genesect is spam fast u-turns all day, here's an NU buddy that is almost just as good at that and 2. That there are obviously other aspects to Genesect's power besides u-turn.

If only he got knock off... Oh well.

 

[alexwolf]

CB Ninjask is not even remotely close to viable and can't even be compared to Genesect. Ninjask is 4x SR weak, has shit bulk and typing meaning it can't switch in as easy as Genesect can, is way weaker than Gensect and has way worse coverage, and thus is walled by a bazzilion of Pokemon.

No more talk about Ninjask.

 

[WebBowser]

CB Ninjask is not even remotely close to viable and can't even be compared to Genesect. Ninjask is 4x SR weak, has shit bulk and typing meaning it can't switch in as easy as Genesect can, is way weaker than Gensect and has way worse coverage, and thus is walled by a bazzilion of Pokemon.

No more talk about Ninjask.

You do realize that I brought up ninjask just to try and start discussion on Genesect's strengths that are not related to u-turn and have even stated that genesect is far better then ninjask can ever be, right?

That being said, I will abide by your request, just wanted to mention that.

 

[Hunter4403]

I just has a quick note about a core for OU Teams not focused on a certain goal. I've seen that there has been a lot of "Volt-Turn" Teams out there and it seems to be quite popular. I was actually learning that even if you don't run a full V-Turn Team, you can still run a V-Turn Core. Like this:

Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Download
EVs: 6 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Hasty / Naive Nature
- U-Turn
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower
- Flash Cannon

Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 6 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest / Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power Ice
- Thunderbolt

This OU team core I've found to be quite useful, because it keeps the opponent thinking.
(Note: I notice that everyone keeps putting "4/252/252" but that only equals 508 total, and the limit is 510. So you're forgetting 2 EVs.)

 

[TooMuchSugar]

I just has a quick note about a core for OU Teams not focused on a certain goal. I've seen that there has been a lot of "Volt-Turn" Teams out there and it seems to be quite popular. I was actually learning that even if you don't run a full V-Turn Team, you can still run a V-Turn Core. Like this:

Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Download
EVs: 6 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Hasty / Naive Nature
- U-Turn
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower
- Flash Cannon

Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 6 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest / Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power Ice
- Thunderbolt

This OU team core I've found to be quite useful, because it keeps the opponent thinking.
(Note: I notice that everyone keeps putting "4/252/252" but that only equals 508 total, and the limit is 510. So you're forgetting 2 EVs.)

That's because a stat goes up 1 for evey 4 EVs, so the last 2 literally do nothing. The core is interesting, but I would definitely find a place for Trick on Rotom.

 

[hyunwoo0124]

Hes a problem like Talonflame. You need a certain check for it or will wreck your team.
Like how a rock type completely walls TF. I personally think having to bring a pokemon just to deal with it is a problem.

I always carry a scarfed pokemon faster than Genesect and carries a fire attack. Like Jirachi.

 

[Jps101]

I sure hope this things gets put to Uber. It is a pain to deal with even with Talonflame, especially if they've got them rocks up. In the last couple of battles I've had, I've faced it and generally had to rely on luck, or good planning to take this thing down.

 

[Kevun]

Wouldn't a mixed Shift Gear set be more viable? Like:

Genesect @ Life Orb
EVs: X Atk / X SpA / X Spe
Ability: Download
Hasty Nature
-Shift Gear
-Iron Head
-Extremespeed
-Flamethrower/HP Ground

Or something along the likes. After a download boost and Shift Gear, you're either sitting at +1 Atk and +1 SpA or +2 Atk, and it would be a waste to just waste the special attack boosts. I was too lazy to figure out the exact EV spreads, but I anticipate more or all of them being allocated in special attack.