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Gengar
- Thread starter Pan.
- Start date
I doubt we need a better ability then levitate =P.
Gengar seems solid as ever and i doubt hes going anywhere below his regular possition at the top of OU.I mean...Hes just such a great poke.
I always did wish he got Aura Sphere some time soon tho =L Focus blast is starting to get annoying.
Gengar seems solid as ever and i doubt hes going anywhere below his regular possition at the top of OU.I mean...Hes just such a great poke.
I always did wish he got Aura Sphere some time soon tho =L Focus blast is starting to get annoying.
Well... I agree that T-Spikes will be more then usable. But when they'll start to be annoying, people may just run Poison Arceus (at least at the beginning). Well, also Nidoqueen was viable in OU, but yeah, I have your point, as it's true (I can hardly call something Desutodasu game breaking :P).
While I think that using Evil Eye is decent idea (as Shadow Ball lack in power), I need to say that Venom Shock doesn't convince me. 130 may look good on paper, but it's not enough when you only hit one type for SE damage and it has many resists. Honestly if I would use STAB move with mediocre offensive typing, I think that really effective move need really good power. Something like STAB Facade with status (210 is enough to ignore lack of targets which you may hit for SE damage) or even this STAB Double-Edge (180). Even STAB Return has higher overall power then STAB Venom Shock. If Gengar was pure Poison type - I would go for this. But when you have a choice of obviously better STAB in Ghost, then I would run only Evil Eye if I wanted to abuse Toxic Spikes. Loosing some of important coverage is IMO too important. Just my opinion ;).
Yeah. I kinda noticed it while typing, but I didn´t want to leave it out completely. You are, however, right. A third coverage move or PainSplit, if you´re running Sub is definitely the better option.
Poison type Arceus made me smile(in a good way, it´s fun). Give the Pokemon god the worst typing ever just for the sake of Gengar NOT getting another STAB^^ Not gonna happen, luckily.
I noticed my mistake. I forgot to add STAB to 130 base power, so it would be... 205 power. Ok, this changes few things a bit and may be viable after all. But still, I prefer to use Evil Eye/Sub/2 coverage moves or 1 coverage/Pain Split or Disable (Disable may be EXTREMELY fun :D).
Nah, Psychic is the worst one ;). Poison has some usefull resistances (Fight, Bug, Grass), while it has bulk to take neutral hits. For example it may be a really good check against Terakion without Earthquake (and why would it run it, when Rock + Fight provides almost perfect coverage and with access to great Taunt ?). Also with that many fighting types this Gen Poison may find his niche. I tried it on Pokemon Online in one of teams and it was decent. Just avoid Groudon at all costs ;).
I just noticed that Gengar is the fastest Pokemon to learn Clear Smog: it can phaze now.
Unfortunately, it probably doesn't work on Lucario and his Steel brethren.
Unfortunately, it probably doesn't work on Lucario and his Steel brethren.
It got Taunt (or always had it?) which is a huge boast to make it a TOP NOTCH anti-lead. It outspeeds the all the leads barring Ninjask, but Ninjask can't do crap against taunt. It is also ghost which excludes it from Fake out
Gengar w/ Focus Sash
Timid or Modest (ur call)
252 Sp. A, 252 Speed, 4 def
Taunt
Shadow Ball
HP Fire
Thunderbolt
Taunt to shut down the pokemon that want SR up, SB for stab and attacks against Azelf. HP Fire to deal with Metagross and Tbolt to deal with Aero. The only pokemon that can stop this is Swampert which is easy since it can't SR. Switching out to something to resist waterfall means ur good 2 go. Why Waterfall? usually swampert comes with Roar, SR, Waterfall, and EQ. So EQ is out due to levitation, and waterfall is left, so u can force Swampert out to set up an early game sweep.
Gengar w/ Focus Sash
Timid or Modest (ur call)
252 Sp. A, 252 Speed, 4 def
Taunt
Shadow Ball
HP Fire
Thunderbolt
Taunt to shut down the pokemon that want SR up, SB for stab and attacks against Azelf. HP Fire to deal with Metagross and Tbolt to deal with Aero. The only pokemon that can stop this is Swampert which is easy since it can't SR. Switching out to something to resist waterfall means ur good 2 go. Why Waterfall? usually swampert comes with Roar, SR, Waterfall, and EQ. So EQ is out due to levitation, and waterfall is left, so u can force Swampert out to set up an early game sweep.
Nothing has really changed for Gengar, and none of the new ghosts really outclass it, although it did gain some new counters. Melotta is probably the best new counter, only taking mediocre damage from Focus Blast and forcing it out with Psychic. Sazando is going to be a thorn in it's side if the scarf set becomes standard, and relying on FB isn't fun (same thing goes for Zoroark, although he's alot frailer). Barujina is also another good coutner, although i doubt it'll be common in OU.
I do think Disable on Gengar is a somewhat viable move this gen. I've already seen a Protect + Disable Gengar take out an anti-lead Machamp, though I'm not convinced this set is any more usable then the standards, as once you reveal Disable it has lot important surprise factor.
Other than that, I'm thinking of using Destiny Bond in a moveslot just to have a certain way of defeating threats such as Roopushin, who, in bulkier form, don't take much from Shadow Ball and pose a serious threat to any team with its Bulk-up + Mach Punch.
Other than that, I'm thinking of using Destiny Bond in a moveslot just to have a certain way of defeating threats such as Roopushin, who, in bulkier form, don't take much from Shadow Ball and pose a serious threat to any team with its Bulk-up + Mach Punch.
Honestly, when has Gengar ever been "bad?" or "lower than OU?"
I'm thinking he'll do fine in this gen. He's still got that very nice base 110 speed, and he outspeeds all of the new gen 5 threat's.
I'm thinking he couldn't go wrong with his classic SubLO set.
Edit: Venom shock seems highly situational.
I'm thinking he'll do fine in this gen. He's still got that very nice base 110 speed, and he outspeeds all of the new gen 5 threat's.
I'm thinking he couldn't go wrong with his classic SubLO set.
Edit: Venom shock seems highly situational.
110 speed in this generation is more troll than Garchomp.
Anyways, Gengar can't learn Sludge Wave. That's sad.
About the Venom Shock/Evil Eye thing; Gengar can take care of the pokemon that are resistant to toxic spikes; Steels are Focus Blasted to oblivion (thankfully no Ghost Steel has been introduced yet), Flyings are Thunderbolted. The only poison types that may see a lot of use in OU are (including the new pokemon) Crobat, Gengar (don't absorb toxic spikes, Crobat is Thunderbolted, Gengar is... well, mirror), Roserade, and that fungus thing that learns spore. Not too big of a problem.
+Venom Shock scores extra on Poison Heal Breloom; juuuuuuuuuust noting.
Anyways, Gengar can't learn Sludge Wave. That's sad.
About the Venom Shock/Evil Eye thing; Gengar can take care of the pokemon that are resistant to toxic spikes; Steels are Focus Blasted to oblivion (thankfully no Ghost Steel has been introduced yet), Flyings are Thunderbolted. The only poison types that may see a lot of use in OU are (including the new pokemon) Crobat, Gengar (don't absorb toxic spikes, Crobat is Thunderbolted, Gengar is... well, mirror), Roserade, and that fungus thing that learns spore. Not too big of a problem.
+Venom Shock scores extra on Poison Heal Breloom; juuuuuuuuuust noting.
One of my favorite pokemon ever since the series was introduced. Gengar will undoubtedly have a lot of competition this generation for a spot on teams with the advent of newer ghosts (shanderaa especially) but one thing that sets him apart from his other ghost counterparts is his speed. Gengar has always been at the top of the speed tier among ghosts, and he continues to remain on top even after 4 new generations of ghosts.
Pokemon-Gengar
Item-Choice Scarf/Choice Specs/Black Sludge
EV's (252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 Hp/Def)
Nature-Timid/Modest
Set "Suicide Trick Anti-Lead"
Moves:
-Trick
-Destiny Bond
-Shadow Ball
-Venom Shock/Thunderbolt/Sludge Bomb/Focus Blast/Energy Ball/HP Fire
Due to the prevalence of many other special sweepers, this set doesn't focus on sweeping but instead attempts to cripple any opponents (most notably leads) that are getting in your way. You can still cripple those troubling walls with trick and when you have no more use for gengar, you can take an opponent down with you who tries to finish you off (I find this especially useful against scizors who think they can come in and finish you off with bullet punch). Shadow ball is in the third moveslot for a solid STAB attack, and the final move depends on your team. Venom shock works especially well when combined with toxic spikes, so roserade or foretress with toxic spikes make excellent partners for him. Thunderbolt is always useful against water types, and with the prevalence of overconfidence gyarados, it just gives you even more reason to use it. Sludge bomb is another useful stab attack, and is your best STAB poison move if you're not usuing venom shock. Focus blast is useful for hitting those steel types that will attempt to wall you (especially doryuuzu). HP fire can be used if you're having issues with scizor (but only try to use this when he switches in, as CB bullet punch will kill you anyways), foretress, and natorrei (Focus blast will also hurt him quite a bit). Finally, energy ball is an option if you're having issues with swampert.
As far as items go, choice scarf is generally your best option, because if you mispredict your opponent it's better than giving them a free choice specs. If you're looking for raw power, choice specs is your best option. Finally, tricking a black sludge onto your opponent in conjunction with venom shock is also a decent option, but with the prevalence of steel types, choice items are usually a safer bet. It also helps gengar last a little bit longer (then again, with his pitiful defenses he probably won't be taking many hits anyways).
Pokemon-Gengar
Item-Choice Scarf/Choice Specs/Black Sludge
EV's (252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 Hp/Def)
Nature-Timid/Modest
Set "Suicide Trick Anti-Lead"
Moves:
-Trick
-Destiny Bond
-Shadow Ball
-Venom Shock/Thunderbolt/Sludge Bomb/Focus Blast/Energy Ball/HP Fire
Due to the prevalence of many other special sweepers, this set doesn't focus on sweeping but instead attempts to cripple any opponents (most notably leads) that are getting in your way. You can still cripple those troubling walls with trick and when you have no more use for gengar, you can take an opponent down with you who tries to finish you off (I find this especially useful against scizors who think they can come in and finish you off with bullet punch). Shadow ball is in the third moveslot for a solid STAB attack, and the final move depends on your team. Venom shock works especially well when combined with toxic spikes, so roserade or foretress with toxic spikes make excellent partners for him. Thunderbolt is always useful against water types, and with the prevalence of overconfidence gyarados, it just gives you even more reason to use it. Sludge bomb is another useful stab attack, and is your best STAB poison move if you're not usuing venom shock. Focus blast is useful for hitting those steel types that will attempt to wall you (especially doryuuzu). HP fire can be used if you're having issues with scizor (but only try to use this when he switches in, as CB bullet punch will kill you anyways), foretress, and natorrei (Focus blast will also hurt him quite a bit). Finally, energy ball is an option if you're having issues with swampert.
As far as items go, choice scarf is generally your best option, because if you mispredict your opponent it's better than giving them a free choice specs. If you're looking for raw power, choice specs is your best option. Finally, tricking a black sludge onto your opponent in conjunction with venom shock is also a decent option, but with the prevalence of steel types, choice items are usually a safer bet. It also helps gengar last a little bit longer (then again, with his pitiful defenses he probably won't be taking many hits anyways).
Destiny Bond makes LO/Scarf Gengar a hell of a team player, eliminating threats to the team slower than it that it can't KO otherwise. The opponent rarely sees it coming.
The set with Disable posted earlier, Sub/Disable/Shadow Ball/Focus Blast is actually doing phenomenally on my team. Teams not prepared for it can be ripped apart, and it makes some pokemon completely unable to touch Gengar.
Generally, Gengar will switch in either after a kill or on one of its immunities. Sub on the switch, or just sub to see what attack they use. If they switch, attack their switch-in with whatever move hurts them move, your sub will break. Disable so they won't kill you, sub up again. You'd be surprised how many pokemon are stuck just staring at your sub wondering what to do.
[EDIT: wow i totally just necro-posted, whoops. oh well, gengar deserves discussion!]
Disable was 55% in Gen I-III, 80% in Gen IV and it's now 100% in Gen V.
But the problem with Disable is, your opponent will have to switch to get rid of Disable. I can also see Gengar use it against Pokemon with only 1 offensive move, such as Crocune.
It's a gen 5 move change.
Otherwise, it seems gengar has all these really nice uses for substitute... though it seems that protect would be better so that you don't waste your own hp (pain split gained you health but disable doesn't).
How come no one's mentioned choice scarf gengar?
He was a beast on my gen 4 team, and he can still be used to great effect, revenging all kinds of things and coming in easily. he tears through lucario, and if he comes in on someone with less than 50%, he can usually nail them with shadow ball, or 2hko the switch-in.
He was a beast on my gen 4 team, and he can still be used to great effect, revenging all kinds of things and coming in easily. he tears through lucario, and if he comes in on someone with less than 50%, he can usually nail them with shadow ball, or 2hko the switch-in.
but.. why would you want to use CS gar? It's already fast enough (possibly you were talking about specs?) and there's nothing truly special that it does (other than do piss poor damage to natt while its spikes and leech seeds and get 1/2hkoed by burungeru).
Having used Disable on Gengar, Protect is indeed more useful to preserve your health. His fragility to attacks isn't really the issue, but hazards, SS, LO and Sub all possibly taking their toll on him really wears him down quick even when not being hit by attacks. Sub however is better for Pain Splitting stuff to low health, so if using both PS and Disable, its a matter of choice.
A scarfed Gengar is a great spinblocker against common Starmies, and outspeeds and OHKO's them back. He may be fast as it is, but so far in this generation we have seen a LOT of scarf users, and he still packs a punch with out LO/specs. And, he can definitely net some surprise KO's against those players who run Scarfed sweepers and think they are faster. Also, scarf, specs, or life orb... it doesnt matter if its half way through the game and the damage has racked up on the enemy team... Gengar will clean up good.
To continue on Gengar + Choice Scarf: Gengar can use Trick to give walls the item, crippling them, while scoring a free Leftovers.
