Gimmicks and their Role in the UU Metagame

eaglehawk

I COULD BE BANNED!
Here's a cute one that I'll think you guys will appreciate:

Magmortar @ Expert Belt
Trait: Vital Spirit
Nature: (+Att, - Def) sorry the name escapes me
EVs: 96 Att / 252 Sp. Att / 160 Spe
- Cross Chop
- Fire Blast / Overheat / Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Grass]

This thing is such a sleeper hit it's ridiculous how effective it is at breaking walls in UU. Most, if not all, Magmortar go completely Special and obviously run into roadblocks when confronting Speciall Defensive fatasses like Snorlax and Umbreon. This set acts as pretty good lure to bring in Snorlax and Umbreon and nail them with Cross Chop.

The EVs maximize its wall-breaking potential. 96 Att EVs breaks even with Focus Blast when used against Umbreon. 252 SpAtt is just used for all-out damage against the physical side. I dumped the rest into Speed. Magmortar's main job is to break walls, so Speed isn't much of an issue, especially since it outspeeds pretty much everything it's meant to beat.
For these calcs, I have them compared to the normal Focus Blast on a regular Magmortar:

252 SpAtk Expert Belt Magmortar Focus Blast vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Umbreon (+SpDef) : 46.95% - 55.33%
2-3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

96 Atk Expert Belt Magmortar (+Atk) Cross Chop vs 252 HP/4 Def Umbreon: 46.95% - 55.33%
2-3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

252 SpAtk Expert Belt Magmortar Focus Blast vs 0 HP/200 SpDef Snorlax: 50.98% - 60.3%
2-3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

96 Atk Expert Belt Magmortar (+Atk) Cross Chop vs 0 HP/52 Def Snorlax: 57.7% - 68.11%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

As you can see, Cross Chop does significantly more damage to Snorlax by securing a 2HKO on it as opposed to Focus Blast. Umbreon takes roughly the same damage regardless of Focus Blast or Cross Chop. As more proof to this things wall-breaking potential:

252 SpAtk Expert Belt Magmortar Thunderbolt vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Slowbro (+SpDef) : 67.51% - 79.7%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

252 SpAtk Magmortar Fire Blast vs 248 HP/8 SpDef Cofagrigus: 56.74% - 67.08%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

252 SpAtk Expert Belt Magmortar Fire Blast vs 252 HP/4 SpDef Bronzong: 119.23% - 140.53%

252 SpAtk Expert Belt Magmortar Hidden Power Grass vs 248 HP/244 SpDef Rhyperior: 94.23% - 112.01%
62.5% chance to OHKO

252 SpAtk Magmortar Fire Blast vs 248 HP/0 SpDef Zapdos: 54.31% - 64.23%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

252 SpAtk Expert Belt Magmortar Fire Blast vs 252 HP/240 SpDef Roserade (+SpDef) : 100% - 117.9%
Guaranteed OHKO

252 SpAtk Magmortar Fire Blast vs 252 HP/136 SpDef Sableye (+SpDef) : 67.11% - 79.28%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

252 SpAtk Expert Belt Magmortar Thunderbolt vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Blastoise: 64.36% - 76.24%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

252 SpAtk Expert Belt Magmortar Thunderbolt vs 252 HP/4 SpDef Suicune: 53.47% - 62.87%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

252 SpAtk Expert Belt Magmortar Thunderbolt vs 248 HP/8 SpDef Milotic: 50.64% - 59.8%
2-3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

252 SpAtk Magmortar Fire Blast vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Nidoqueen: 57.03% - 67.19%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

Now that I have sufficiently suffocated you all with damage calculations, I hope you enjoy using this little, fiery turd.
 
Nature: (+Att, - Def) sorry the name escapes me
Lonely

I have a question related to this thread. Would running heatproof Bronzong be considered a gimmick? I've been running it a bit and people will always try to fire blast instead of EQ just cause of how common Levitate is.
 
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One of the biggest disadvantages with Heatproof Bronzong is that that Spikes are very common in UU and Bronzong hates taking Spikes damage due to its lack of recovery. This is particularly relevant because Bronzong is easily forced out. Basically, with Heatproof you can get in a turn against Darmanitan or Victini, assuming you lead with it or they switch into you, but that's about it. Spikes notably kills the surprise value of Heatproof as well, which is the main reason to use it.

252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Heatproof Bronzong: 176-210 (52.07 - 62.13%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Heatproof Bronzong: 229-273 (67.75 - 80.76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Heatproof Bronzong: 162-192 (47.92 - 56.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes
4 Atk Expert Belt Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Heatproof Bronzong: 154-182 (45.56 - 53.84%) -- 95.31% chance to 2HKO after Spikes
252+ Atk Life Orb Arcanine Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Heatproof Bronzong: 164-195 (48.52 - 57.69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes


There are also a handful of reasonably popular Pokemon that have more trouble handling Heatproof Bronzong than Levitate Bronzong (Heat Wave Honchkrow, Fire Blast Azelf and Hidden Power Fire Roserade). However, it's not uncommon to see them without fire coverage anyway.

Overall, Heatproof Bronzong is really skating the line where you might just be better off using Registeel. Still, it's a gimmick that has its uses.
 
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Kitten Milk

[22:59:31] <KittenUU> 241 of which are fellacious
Here's a cute one that I'll think you guys will appreciate:

Magmortar @ Expert Belt
Trait: Vital Spirit
Nature: (+Att, - Def) sorry the name escapes me
EVs: 96 Att / 252 Sp. Att / 160 Spe
- Cross Chop
- Fire Blast / Overheat / Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Grass]

This thing is such a sleeper hit it's ridiculous how effective it is at breaking walls in UU. Most, if not all, Magmortar go completely Special and obviously run into roadblocks when confronting Speciall Defensive fatasses like Snorlax and Umbreon. This set acts as pretty good lure to bring in Snorlax and Umbreon and nail them with Cross Chop.

The EVs maximize its wall-breaking potential. 96 Att EVs breaks even with Focus Blast when used against Umbreon. 252 SpAtt is just used for all-out damage against the physical side. I dumped the rest into Speed. Magmortar's main job is to break walls, so Speed isn't much of an issue, especially since it outspeeds pretty much everything it's meant to beat.
For these calcs, I have them compared to the normal Focus Blast on a regular Magmortar:

252 SpAtk Expert Belt Magmortar Focus Blast vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Umbreon (+SpDef) : 46.95% - 55.33%
2-3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

96 Atk Expert Belt Magmortar (+Atk) Cross Chop vs 252 HP/4 Def Umbreon: 46.95% - 55.33%
2-3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

252 SpAtk Expert Belt Magmortar Focus Blast vs 0 HP/200 SpDef Snorlax: 50.98% - 60.3%
2-3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

96 Atk Expert Belt Magmortar (+Atk) Cross Chop vs 0 HP/52 Def Snorlax: 57.7% - 68.11%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

As you can see, Cross Chop does significantly more damage to Snorlax by securing a 2HKO on it as opposed to Focus Blast. Umbreon takes roughly the same damage regardless of Focus Blast or Cross Chop. As more proof to this things wall-breaking potential:

252 SpAtk Expert Belt Magmortar Thunderbolt vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Slowbro (+SpDef) : 67.51% - 79.7%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

252 SpAtk Magmortar Fire Blast vs 248 HP/8 SpDef Cofagrigus: 56.74% - 67.08%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

252 SpAtk Expert Belt Magmortar Fire Blast vs 252 HP/4 SpDef Bronzong: 119.23% - 140.53%

252 SpAtk Expert Belt Magmortar Hidden Power Grass vs 248 HP/244 SpDef Rhyperior: 94.23% - 112.01%
62.5% chance to OHKO

252 SpAtk Magmortar Fire Blast vs 248 HP/0 SpDef Zapdos: 54.31% - 64.23%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

252 SpAtk Expert Belt Magmortar Fire Blast vs 252 HP/240 SpDef Roserade (+SpDef) : 100% - 117.9%
Guaranteed OHKO

252 SpAtk Magmortar Fire Blast vs 252 HP/136 SpDef Sableye (+SpDef) : 67.11% - 79.28%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

252 SpAtk Expert Belt Magmortar Thunderbolt vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Blastoise: 64.36% - 76.24%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

252 SpAtk Expert Belt Magmortar Thunderbolt vs 252 HP/4 SpDef Suicune: 53.47% - 62.87%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

252 SpAtk Expert Belt Magmortar Thunderbolt vs 248 HP/8 SpDef Milotic: 50.64% - 59.8%
2-3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

252 SpAtk Magmortar Fire Blast vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Nidoqueen: 57.03% - 67.19%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

Now that I have sufficiently suffocated you all with damage calculations, I hope you enjoy using this little, fiery turd.
I'd like to see some more discussion about this set and Magmortar in general before I archive it. I'm not convinced of Magmortar's relative usability in UU where there are so many other strong fire types, and I'd be interested to hear what you guys think.
 
I feel like Victini just outclasses Magmortar. Like, Evire works because unlike its two other electric counterparts, Raikou and Zapdos, Evire can run a mixed or Physical Set.
 

CoolStoryBrobat

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For that Magmortar set, I feel like you may as well rock an all-out Life Orb on that thing...Magmortar is almost unheard of in UU to the point that people aren't gonna be expecting a choiced set, so you really got no need to bluff the item. The only advantage you have with Expert Belt is that you have a little more durability since you lack recoil on top of the SR weakness...But outside of that, you may as well opt for the maximum wallbreaking potential in my opinion. Add some Stealth Rocks, and a lot of those 2HKOes are going to be much more close cut. I loved using Magmortar back before I got real into competitive, and with Vital Spirit it's at least able to check Venomoth, and Roserade to a extent if you're at full HP. (However, LO Sludge Bomb can 2HKO you very easily, and Sleep Powder's most often ran on offensive Roserade but that's besides the point). Really, the mixed utility with Cross Chop is the big draw that would set this guy apart from Rotom-H and/or special Victini. Something else this has over both of those two Pokemon is that base 125 SpA stat, compared to Rotom-H's base 105 and Victini's base 100. Rotom-H's compensation is it gets dual Electric/Fire STAB, and Victini's is that it has a higher BP move in Blue Flare and a Grass Knot that reliably OHKOes Rhyperior. (And I guess that both of them have higher speed too but bleh)

I mean, and then there's Chandelure also, but this guy at least can get past some problematic pokemon Chandelure often brings in. Pound for pound I say it's at least worth trying out for a bit before dismissing, one may actually be surprised.
 
I have a goth set to amend to my post for those who REALLY REALLY REALLY hate umbreon (like a lot):

Gothorita

@ Leftovers
Bold Nature (+ Def - Atk)
EVs: 96 Spe / 248 HP / 164 Def
Moves:
-Imprison
-Protect
-Heal Bell
-Foul Play

So the idea here is to trap umbreon, then pop it with an imprison. In case you didn't know, imprison is a highly gimmicky move that prevents your foe's pokemon from using any moves that your pokemon knows. So pretty much, after an imprison, umbreon can only use wish (protect, heal bell and foul play will be disabled). Thus, 16 turns later, umbreon will begin to struggle. Obviously, this set is pretty much only good for umbreon but if you want to make sure your opponent never uses the thing again, this is the way to go. In 16 turns, you can really taunt the shit out of your opponent and potentially just make them quit so the don't have to keep clicking wish idk. This set runs lefties over eviolite for recovery and because after 16 turns, with lefties recovery, goth is guaranteed to be back up to full.


I wouldn't consider this completely viable unless you're looking to counter team but I just felt like leaving this here cuz I forgot about it earlier.
 
I have a goth set to amend to my post for those who REALLY REALLY REALLY hate umbreon (like a lot):

Gothorita

@ Leftovers
Bold Nature (+ Def - Atk)
EVs: 96 Spe / 248 HP / 164 Def
Moves:
-Imprison
-Protect
-Heal Bell
-Foul Play

So the idea here is to trap umbreon, then pop it with an imprison. In case you didn't know, imprison is a highly gimmicky move that prevents your foe's pokemon from using any moves that your pokemon knows. So pretty much, after an imprison, umbreon can only use wish (protect, heal bell and foul play will be disabled). Thus, 16 turns later, umbreon will begin to struggle. Obviously, this set is pretty much only good for umbreon but if you want to make sure your opponent never uses the thing again, this is the way to go. In 16 turns, you can really taunt the shit out of your opponent and potentially just make them quit so the don't have to keep clicking wish idk. This set runs lefties over eviolite for recovery and because after 16 turns, with lefties recovery, goth is guaranteed to be back up to full.


I wouldn't consider this completely viable unless you're looking to counter team but I just felt like leaving this here cuz I forgot about it earlier.
I like the set, and I would use it for the lulz if toxic wasn't so common.
 
The problem with that set is that the archived one is better in every way. So you've trapped Umbreon and defeated all but the rare Payback variants. Fantastic! But then what? The archived set beats Umbreon while also defeating other common UU walls. On top of that, you're running Leftovers instead of Eviolite, which means that Gothorita will quite literally be dead weight against any opponent without Umbreon, as it's incredibly frail without Eviolite. Even if the opponent does have Umbreon, you have to hope to trap it to begin with.
 
The problem with that set is that the archived one is better in every way. So you've trapped Umbreon and defeated all but the rare Payback variants. Fantastic! But then what? The archived set beats Umbreon while also defeating other common UU walls. On top of that, you're running Leftovers instead of Eviolite, which means that Gothorita will quite literally be dead weight against any opponent without Umbreon, as it's incredibly frail without Eviolite. Even if the opponent does have Umbreon, you have to hope to trap it to begin with.
Oh, it has absolutely no use other than stopping one poke, it's just an even gimmickyer gimmick for people who want to troll the shit out of umbreon users. I only posted it for shits and giggles.
 
While I'm here I might as well post a set I've been using recently:

Wonderwall

Ability: Wonder Guard
IVs: 0 def
Nature: Hasty (+Spe -Def)
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe / 4 SpD/SpA/Def/HP
Moves:
-Hone Claws/Swords Dance
-Will-o-Wisp
-Baton Pass
-Shadow Sneak

Granted, I've only been using this set on a joke/troll team I've been fucking around with, but this thing actually works. Ik hail's a thing, but its only like 5% of teams so shedinja can still do its job pretty well in UU. If you can keep hazards off the field, sooooo many threats just become nothing more than set up fodder. CM Raikou, any kingdra set and CM suicune just to name a few can do absolutely nothing to this guy. I've paired shedinja with lum berry durant (I've used hone claws, not swords dance so heads up swords dance + baton pass may not be allowed idk) and it's been absolutely amazing. Will-o is to cripple pokes like heracross that try desperately to take shedinja down and allows certain physical sweepers to become set up fodder for something else on your team. Hone claws is obviously there to boost accuracy/attack and baton pass is to transfer said boosts but also just works amazingly as a momentum gainer and escape pursuit traps from slower pokes like snorlax. I mainly have shadow sneak just so if it comes down to me vs. raikou or something else that can't touch me, it isn't a pp stall war but I've also gotten some nice revenge kills with it. The IVs/nature ensure that any download users get an attack boost, not a special attack boost.

I'd imagine this set probably works even better in RU/NU but this is a UU thread so ya.

Here's a few clips of it doing its thang:
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uu-46674925
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uu-46657639
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uu-46673914
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uu-46824866 (this is probably the best one if you're lazy)

Please excuse the overall shittiness of the team you see in these replays.
 
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Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
Lonely

I have a question related to this thread. Would running heatproof Bronzong be considered a gimmick? I've been running it a bit and people will always try to fire blast instead of EQ just cause of how common Levitate is.
people have been mentioning this since 2007. I've run heatproof before, plenty of times the opponent wont even notice. The biggest issue is just that an immunity grants so switch ins, whereas heatproof just makes fire a neutral attack. Usually not worth it, but surprise tactics can definitely win battles. Give it a shot sometime.
 

Bastiodon @ Custap Berry
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
Bold Nature
- Metal Burst
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Protect

I had it once used against me with Leftovers by someone with a NU team. I stole the pokemon and another guy told me to put Custap Berry. Surprisingly, it works rather well.
The idea is pretty simple, you send it as a suicide lead. If the opponent sends something like Swampert, you go for Metal Burst turn 1, survive the incoming EQ because of Sturdy and the same turn he dies because of Metal Burst damage. When the guy sends another pokemon to finish you off, you set up SR with use of Custap and die while smiling.
I've also used it successfully against stuff like Mienshao and Heracross but the main target here is Swampert that migh try to KO first turn and then set up SR.
Taunt and Protect are kind of filler moves since sometimes the bait doesn't work. They can help later on (hence actual EV spread) but I haven't had much success with it.

Of course this set is very very very easy to play around once you check that Bastiodon can have Sturdy (and probably does). You could also go for the Leftovers one which allows Bastiodon to regenerate over time while using Protect and prevent setting up with Taunt.
 
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Bastiodon @ Custap Berry
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
Bold Nature
- Metal Burst
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Protect

I had it once used against me with Leftovers by someone with a NU team. I stole the pokemon and another guy told me to put Custap Berry. Surprisingly, it works rather well.
The idea is pretty simple, you send it as a suicide lead. If the opponent sends something like Swampert, you go for Metal Burst turn 1, survive the incoming EQ because of Sturdy and the same turn he dies because of Metal Burst damage. When the guy sends another pokemon to finish you off, you set up SR with use of Custap and die while smiling.
I've also used it successfully against stuff like Mienshao and Heracross but the main target here is Swampert that migh try to KO first turn and then set up SR.
Taunt and Protect are kind of filler moves since sometimes the bait doesn't work. They can help later on (hence actual EV spread) but I haven't had much success with it.

Of course this set is very very very easy to play around once you check that Bastiodon can have Sturdy (and probably does). You could also go for the Leftovers one which allows Bastiodon to regenerate over time while using Protect and prevent setting up with Taunt.
This plays a lot like Crustle. If that's the case, you're actually going to want to use an EV spread of 252 Atk / 252 SpA / 4 Spe, a Brave nature, and 0 IVs in HP, Def, SpDef, and Spe. With these investments, anything that threatens Bastiodon enough to activate Sturdy, such as CB Snorlax, Rhyperior, and Swampert, is undersped and potentially smashed by Metal Burst. Remember, the point of the set is to get Bastiodon to Custap level quickly, since its a suicide lead. This means its defences are going to be extremely low. However, I would argue about dropping Protect in favour of Stone Edge, as fast Pokemon that just want to Taunt Bastiodon, specifically Crobat and Azelf, will be able to avoid Metal Burst. Stone Edge is also favourable against Xatu, which kind of shits on your current set. Do note that Bastiodon has a piss-poor Attack stat and can only 2HKO opposing Xatu, as it just narrowly misses the OHKO.
 
Well, the thing is, it actually uses Metal Burst. It doesn't need any Attack EVs and then also relies on being as fucking slow as possible (actually I was about to change its Speed IVs to 0 but forgot once again, lol).
Other suggestions seem reasonable for a suicide lead, I guess. The reason it's defensive is because, like I said, I often use it to sponge attacks later on if I can't gimmick the Swampert/something else out because the opponent does SR->Ice Punch or sth.
 
Well, the thing is, it actually uses Metal Burst. It doesn't need any Attack EVs and then also relies on being as fucking slow as possible (actually I was about to change its Speed IVs to 0 but forgot once again, lol).
Other suggestions seem reasonable for a suicide lead, I guess. The reason it's defensive is because, like I said, I often use it to sponge attacks later on if I can't gimmick the Swampert/something else out because the opponent does SR->Ice Punch or sth.
The EVs are there as a placeholder and to boost Stone Edge if necessary. I know what Metal Burst does, but if you want to be using Bastiodon as a suicide lead, it's got no other choice but to minimize its defences and maximize everything else basically. This way, even the weaker attacks will trigger Sturdy, Custap berry, and as strong a Metal Burst as possible, then maximizing its effectiveness.
 

Kitten Milk

[22:59:31] <KittenUU> 241 of which are fellacious
Doesn't Metal Burst Aggron generally outclass Metal Burst Bastiodon? It has superior Attack/Defense as well as having usable UU sets outside of just that - when I see a lead Bastio I immediately think MBurst, but against Aggron you have to be careful for Rock Polish, SR, etc...
 

CoolStoryBrobat

The hero Smogon needs, but not the one it deserves
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Now that I think about it, Kitten Milk has a point there...Pardon me while I jot up a ripoff Custap Aggron set.


Aggron @ Custap Berry
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD / 0 Spe
Brave Nature
- Metal Burst
- Stone Edge
- Taunt/Thunder Wave/Endeavor
- Stealth Rock

Kinda the same exact deal except it has a bit of offensive presence with a STAB Stone Edge coming off base 110 Attack...If this does get archived over Bastiodon, I still would want the credit to go to DjEj because all I did was slap the set onto another Pokemon based on Kitten Milk's suggestion. Since you wanna get into Custap Range as easily as possible, all your defenses are minimized as much as possible. And since you want to guaranteeably outsped so that Metal Burst works, Brave nature is chosen. Because of this, you literally can't use any of your stats except Atk. Seems like a waste, but that's the way it is I guess. For the third slot, Taunt is useful if your Custap berry has been activated. Thunder Wave can be helpful to cripple a Pokemon early off and possibly grant Aggron more than 2 turns in the game (though you kinda don't want to go for T-Wave on turn 1, due to Metal Burst). Endeavor is good once you've activated Sturdy, though if you opt for that instead of setting up Stealth Rock, you could go a game with no hazards guaranteed. But them's the breaks I guess
 
Anti-Fighting Clefable

Clefable @ Flame Orb
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Cosmic Power
- Charge Beam
- Softboiled
- Trick​
This Clefable set is designed to lure in opposing fighting types, only to Trick them into receiving a Flame Orb as they switch in, halving their attack and thereby neutering them for the reminder of the game. This frees up an opportunity for set-up sweepers such as DD-Kingdra (who only takes 37-43% from burned Mienshao's HJK) to switch in and begin their sweep. Staying in on these fighting types, even once they're burned, is usually a bad idea for Clefable, as the majority of them can still 2HKO her, which would force her to continuously use Softboiled to stay alive. However, later in the game she can come in on more defensive pokes such as Slowbro and Brozong and begin using Cosmic Power. Even if the opponent switches back to their crippled Heracross, Scrafty, etc. on the first turn she hits the field, she still has the opportunity to get a +1 in both defences as they switch. After that point, she becomes a nigh unbreakable wall, taking only ~30% from burned Mienshao's HJK at +1Def, allowing her to continuously use Cosmic Power and heal off any damage with Softboiled. Finally, Charge Beam is used as a spammable attack to boost her poor offenses and kill off weakened teams that lack a phazer/ground-type. It might be tempting to use Double Edge as a main attacking move, due to STAB and a lack of recoil. However, Clefable will often have to double-trick against Scarfed Heracross/Mienshao, as she dislikes being choice-locked, thus burning her and halving her already horrible attack stat, making a special-type move preferable. Also, once burned, Clefable becomes immune to sleep and paralysis, whilst her ability protects her from taking burn damage.

All-in-all, I believe this set fills a niche of baiting the fighting-type pokemon that define the Underused metagame before crippling them and making them a lot less threatening for other team members to deal with. Whilst it is true that pokemon such as Sableye are more effective at spreading burns, no sensible player would switch their fighting-type in on Sableye, as spamming WoW is probably the most obvious play a Sableye-player can do. The main thing this set has going for it is the surprise factor, as well as the fact that clever players can boost its defences through the roof later in the game, once ground types and phazers have been killed off.

So yeah, this is my gimmick, it requires quite a bit of support to function and I'd be extremely interested to see what you all think.
 
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Kitten Milk

[22:59:31] <KittenUU> 241 of which are fellacious
Anti-Fighting Clefable

Clefable @ Flame Orb
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Cosmic Power
- Charge Beam
- Softboiled
- Trick​
This Clefable set is designed to lure in opposing fighting types, only to Trick them into receiving a Flame Orb as they switch in, halving their attack and thereby neutering them for the reminder of the game. This frees up an opportunity for set-up sweepers such as DD-Kingdra (who only takes 37-43% from burned Mienshao's HJK) to switch in and begin their sweep. Staying in on these fighting types, even once they're burned, is usually a bad idea for Clefable, as the majority of them can still 2HKO her, which would force her to continuously use Softboiled to stay alive. However, later in the game she can come in on more defensive pokes such as Slowbro and Brozong and begin using Cosmic Power. Even if the opponent switches back to their crippled Heracross, Scrafty, etc. on the first turn she hits the field, she still has the opportunity to get a +1 in both defences as they switch. After that point, she becomes a nigh unbreakable wall, taking only ~30% from burned Mienshao's HJK at +1Def, allowing her to continuously use Cosmic Power and heal off any damage with Softboiled. Finally, Charge Beam is used as a spammable attack to boost her poor offenses and kill off weakened teams that lack a phazer/ground-type. It might be tempting to use Double Edge as a main attacking move, due to STAB and a lack of recoil. However, Clefable will often have to double-trick against Scarfed Heracross/Mienshao, as she dislikes being choice-locked, thus burning her and halving her already horrible attack stat, making a special-type move preferable. Also, once burned, Clefable becomes immune to sleep and paralysis, whilst her ability protects her from taking burn damage.

All-in-all, I believe this set fills a niche of baiting the fighting-type pokemon that define the Underused metagame before crippling them and making them a lot less threatening for other team members to deal with. Whilst it is true that pokemon such as Sableye are more effective at spreading burns, no sensible player would switch their fighting-type in on Sableye, as spamming WoW is probably the most obvious play a Sableye-player can do. The main thing this set has going for it is the surprise factor, as well as the fact that clever players can boost its defences through the roof later in the game, once ground types and phazers have been killed off.

So yeah, this is my gimmick, it requires quite a bit of support to function and I'd be extremely interested to see what you all think.
I like the general concept of the set, and I'm very appreciative of the awesome description you included, but I'm not sold on Cosmic Power/Charge Beam. At the end of the day, you want Clefable to be useful for more than just healing herself and potentially burning a threatening fire type, and I just don't see how you'd be able to set up both Cosmic Powers and Charge Beam 70% SpAtt boosts on such a comparatively frail tank like Clefable. I feel that moves like Heal Bell, Protect, Knock Off, Toxic, or Encore would provide significantly more utility to the team overall and give it a general use outside of just burning something.

That said, I haven't actually used much Clefable myself, so I'd be interested to see what some other people think.
 

CoolStoryBrobat

The hero Smogon needs, but not the one it deserves
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Anti-Fighting Clefable

Clefable @ Flame Orb
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Cosmic Power
- Charge Beam
- Softboiled
- Trick​
This Clefable set is designed to lure in opposing fighting types, only to Trick them into receiving a Flame Orb as they switch in, halving their attack and thereby neutering them for the reminder of the game. This frees up an opportunity for set-up sweepers such as DD-Kingdra (who only takes 37-43% from burned Mienshao's HJK) to switch in and begin their sweep. Staying in on these fighting types, even once they're burned, is usually a bad idea for Clefable, as the majority of them can still 2HKO her, which would force her to continuously use Softboiled to stay alive. However, later in the game she can come in on more defensive pokes such as Slowbro and Brozong and begin using Cosmic Power. Even if the opponent switches back to their crippled Heracross, Scrafty, etc. on the first turn she hits the field, she still has the opportunity to get a +1 in both defences as they switch. After that point, she becomes a nigh unbreakable wall, taking only ~30% from burned Mienshao's HJK at +1Def, allowing her to continuously use Cosmic Power and heal off any damage with Softboiled. Finally, Charge Beam is used as a spammable attack to boost her poor offenses and kill off weakened teams that lack a phazer/ground-type. It might be tempting to use Double Edge as a main attacking move, due to STAB and a lack of recoil. However, Clefable will often have to double-trick against Scarfed Heracross/Mienshao, as she dislikes being choice-locked, thus burning her and halving her already horrible attack stat, making a special-type move preferable. Also, once burned, Clefable becomes immune to sleep and paralysis, whilst her ability protects her from taking burn damage.

All-in-all, I believe this set fills a niche of baiting the fighting-type pokemon that define the Underused metagame before crippling them and making them a lot less threatening for other team members to deal with. Whilst it is true that pokemon such as Sableye are more effective at spreading burns, no sensible player would switch their fighting-type in on Sableye, as spamming WoW is probably the most obvious play a Sableye-player can do. The main thing this set has going for it is the surprise factor, as well as the fact that clever players can boost its defences through the roof later in the game, once ground types and phazers have been killed off.

So yeah, this is my gimmick, it requires quite a bit of support to function and I'd be extremely interested to see what you all think.
What about just using Stored Power with it over Charge Beam? Can't get any more "Anti-Fighting" than by also carrying a Psychic-type move, right? Granted Dark types will shut you down within a moment's notice, but Charge Beam won't exactly be able to sweep by itself either, especially with the large amount of Ground-types in UU. By setting up Cosmic Power after crippling something, it allows you to also fry whatever else comes after, provided it's not another Dark-type of the opponent's.
 
Kitten Milk I'm glad you liked it! Originally this set was used on a Hail-Stall team, where the whole Cosmic Power/Softboiled stall was pretty effective when used in conjunction with passive hail damage and burns. However you raise a good point that there is still some room to change up the moveset to make Clefable more of a team player. I'll get working on it!

CoolStoryBrobat Nice. I never even thought of that, and the whole problem about Dark types being immune dm much anyways, as Charge Beam has that same problem with ground types.

Thanks for the awesome suggestions guys!
 

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
Here's a dumb gimmick I've been trying on the UU ladder a bit with some success. In theory it's grotesquely overpowering, but in practice it doesnt always work. It's an early game set up sweep that involves a lead with stealth rocks, rain dance, and then a suicide move followed by a kingdra sweep. Kingdra in the rain is so obscenely strong and fast it punches huge holes in teams leaving them open for clean up. The tactic is to choose one of three different leads, one of two different kingdra sets, setup within 3 or 4 turns, and then sweep.

Some replays to show this off

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uususpecttest-51739309
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uususpecttest-51914554

The leads

Bronzong @ Damp Rock
Trait: Heatproof
Evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Sdef
Brave Nature
- Rain Dance
- Explosion
- Gyro Ball
- Stealth Rock

This lead is generally reliable. Because of Bronzong's typing and bulk, combined with his decent attack, 3 turns is very possible for him, and scroing an explosion KO is likely. The issue with this set is that taunt completely shuts down a chance for a sweep, and explosion doesnt allow for an easy setup like memento does. Explosion does confer advantages such as potentially killing something or damaging significantly something that is going to hurt kingdra's sweep, killing opponents that try and set up on you, breaking substitutes, and also breaking sturdy/focus sash leads. Heatproof is a strange choice, but because it is a lead spikes cant give its ability away, and 3 turns usually isn't enough to figure out your secret, it can buy crucial time against a fire attacking lead. Finally, gyro ball is to at least attack initial taunt users, and can do real damage, for example, it can OHKO non defensive crobats.

Uxie @ Damp Rock
Trait: Levitate
Evs: 252 hp / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Memento
- Rain Dance
- Stealth Rock
- Psychic

Some actual speed and bulk involved mean that there's always enough time to get moving, but again, taunt makes this set weep, and everyone is going to taunt an uxie. This lead generally unreliable because a lot of things are going to stop you. Substitute users, taunts, focus sash, sturdy, strong bug/dark/ghost leads, etc. The only hope is that the opponent starts with their own stealth rocker that tries to attack, like rhpyerior or nideoqueen, or switches after laying rocks. This makes this option hard to recommend but when it works, it facilitates the most powerful sweep.

Azelf @ Damp Rock
Trait: Levitate
Evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 hp
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Rain Dance
- Explosion

Azelf's main merits here are the fast taunt, and ability to force out. What azelf tries to do here is either out taunt the opponents lead, or force them out on the pretense of a strong fire blast/thunderbolt/etc thus buying time. Azelf's explosion is the strongest too. This lead is generally most unreliable because azelf is not going to live long if the opponent decides to attack.


The Kingdra

Kingdra @ life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
Nature: Lonely
Evs: 252 SAtk / 252 Atk / 4 hp
- Dragon Dance
- Hydro Pump
- Outrage
- Waterfall

This is the most deadly of the two, but requires less reliable set up with momento, or gambling on a dragon dance after explosion. After a dragon dance and swift swim, it outspeeds every scarfer in the tier, past 115 base + nature scarf. With life orb, rain, a dance and max investment, all moves are incredibly strong, enough to break any team apart. The only good answer is a good bulky water, but kingdra's typing and natural bulk usually let it survive and hit and 2hko. IT goes without saying that scalds will do pathetic damage to kingdra, uninvested ice beams too. Calculations will follow.

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Kingdra Outrage vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Slowbro: 230-270 (58.52 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Cofagrigus in rain: 298-351 (93.41 - 110.03%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Kingdra Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 52 Def Snorlax in rain: 446-526 (96.74 - 114.09%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Kingdra Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 220-261 (54.45 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Kingdra Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blastoise: 242-286 (66.85 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Kingdra Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Shaymin: 337-398 (98.82 - 116.71%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Togekiss in rain: 274-324 (73.45 - 86.86%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos in rain: 337-398 (87.98 - 103.91%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Alomomola in rain: 286-337 (53.55 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

These are the bulkiest pokemon in the tier, many with very favourable typing against kingdra, yet they can fall. It's worth noting that some pokemon like slowbro and alomomola will try and outstall the rain with slack off, or wish/protect spam, but simply dragon dancing right up next to that will mean your outrage will be unstoppable.

Kingdra @ life orb
Trait: swift swim
Evs: 252 SAtk / 196 Spe / 60 atk
Nature: Mild
- Draco MEteor
- Hydro Pump
- Waterfall
- Ice beam

This set requires the least amount of set up, but lacks the raw power it needs to pound teams into dust. Despite that, explosion usually nets a KO or near KO (easy follow up kill), natural bulk permits a 2hko without death, and an obscene amount of power is behind those hydro pumps anyways, so the net effect is usually 3-4 KOs if you can get going. Strong grass and water types are the hampering of this set. BLastoise, slowbro, and suicune arent 1HKO'd by draco meteor, neither are the more defensive shaymin and roserade. Ice beam is there 2 achieve a KO on the more uncommon grass types without having to resort to draco meteor, but due the most common grass types not falling to it, im open for a suggestion to replace. Waterfall is there as option against fully specially defensive pokemon, and it retains strength after draco meteoer. The spread allows for max Hydro pump power, outspeeding + nature base 105 scarfers, and still some investment for waterfall's sake.

252+ SpA Life Orb Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Alomomola: 487-575 (91.19 - 107.67%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 317-374 (80.66 - 95.16%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 200 SpD Snorlax in rain: 263-309 (57.04 - 67.02%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Cofagrigus in rain: 328-386 (102.82 - 121%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shaymin: 263-309 (77.12 - 90.61%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Togekiss in rain: 302-356 (80.96 - 95.44%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Swampert in rain: 368-434 (91.77 - 108.22%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock



In short, unprepared teams are completely wasted by this
 
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pokeisfun

UU player and community member
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
The Kingdra set is obviously strong and speedy but surely you cannot sweep right off the bat without some preparation? I cannot imagine your opponent will often have a team so weak to Kingdra they will get swept off immediately. Of course you can have some pre preparation as in preparing bfore you even send in the Rain user but then you seem to be playing without SR the entire game up until that point. Only against extremely offensive teams can I imagine those Kingdra sets to get a clean sweep, the rest of the time it seems like it will just punch big holes which might not be worth it since you are almost dedicating two slots to try and ensure a sweep.

In any case if you somehow don't get up SR you might get walled by Shedinja heheh which I have just been using on the ladder and I think it is a very strong gimmick.

Shedina@Focus Sash/Lum Berry
Lonely: 252 att, 252 spe (0 def ivs)
Swords Dance
X-Scissors
Shadow Sneak
Sucker Punch

By far this is Shedinja's most threatening set and I run it with a randm sunny day user so I can pretty easily get rid of hail and Blastoise which is quite good at spinning, especially with Foresight. Shedinja counters quite well big threats like Raikou, Kingdra, Slowbro, Suicune, Roserade and can easily set up a single SD on them as they flee. If your opponent only can hurt Shedinja through things like Chandelure they are pretty much doomed since Shadow Sneak will be an easy KO and even if they have something else to deal with you like Honchkrow you can always rely on the Focus Sash to get a hit on Honchkrow and kill him. Occasioanlly Shedinja is almost complete dead weight but even in times where you don't think it is very usefulyou kind of corce your opponent to think about how they move like they can't just use Voltturn unless they have a solid counter to Shedinja or else they will get disrupted badly. Luckily you can outspeed and OHKO Umbreon after a boost so you dont have to waste your Focus Sash on him. Bulky waters with Toxic are usually the biggest problem and trace p2 but you can take advantage of this with Sub Shaymin or BU Scrafty to put more pressure up.

Shedinja is extremely underrated imo
 

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