I already did, I posted a huge list of Bible passages that conflict each other in every language on the last page. Here is another list, just in case you thought the first source was lying. You continue to assert that the Bible is factually accurate, how do you explain those passages that mention directly contradictory "facts".*sigh* Pull out those hebrew passages that conflict each other as you so claim
Yeah, Pascal's Wager...if you had bothered to actually read this thread you would know that Brain already demolished this line of thinking in this thread.Look it all comes down to this since nobody will be convincing anybody of anything.
Either I die and realize that my whole life of Christianity has been worthless since God doesn't exist. Or the Bible continues to prove itself correct and the day comes when everyone will realize God's existence.
I won't even mention what will happen to any of you if you die and the latter is true.
One or the other. We'll just have to play the waiting game.
At the very least, I'd rather not risk Situation B.
Perhaps you should think long and hard about what happens when said book is copied by scribes for hundreds of years and we do not have the original manuscripts. (Although I am sure you are trolling.)Man, I'm not going to even mention what happens when a book thousands of years old is translated into a foreign language over and over again but hey, thanks for showing all the problems with the english translation of the Bible. I bet you could do a better job. Did everyone forget what I said about "Original Hebrew"?
That's exactly what I was thinking. For a guy who "knows more about the bible than any one of us" you have managed to show a great lack of knowledge about it. You have made a fool of yourself, so I suggest that you stop bitching about everything that proves you wrong making up excuses and take a look at the facts so many people presented, instead of downright rejecting them.so, HM, why do you want just original Hebrew, when that would only cover the Old Testament (a.k.a. Torah, Tanakh), and the new testament was originally written in GREEK. seems you should be asking for both...
You seem to misunderstand my reasearch. The 5% who are atheists are mainly composed of scientists (mainly meaning 70% of the 5%, for example). You can believe without a certain evidence, but you cannot know without a certain evidence.Look Sean, whether you guys take me seriously doesn't matter to me. No one with credentials is going to take your arguments seriously because guess what - all these questions have been asked, answered and explained through years and years of research that you can't even begin to fathom. Like enigma said, about 5% of the population is Atheist. So this 5% claims to have found something that stops a force that hasn't been stopped for thousands of years? I don't think so. Try and try as you might, you can't disprove the Bible. It hasn't been done, this is very much true, and it won't be done. And there's nothing you can do, that hasn't been done before, to change that. But since you're so stubborn to ignore that one fact that destroys the basis of your belief, I'll give you this challenge; Of all these inconsistencies that you happened to find from the word of mouth from another, put those verses into context, research the original Hebrew, then do some more research on the meaning of some of the verses. Of course there will be symbolism that you might not understand, if so, take those questions to a Bible scholar. I'd say it'd be a waste of time, but actually learning the Bible instead of bandwagoning the opinions of others will do you some good. Thanks for the debate, it was a great experience.
Now in the event that through extensive research you find just one statement in the Bible that is proven to be false (i.e. The Bible says a Lion is the smallest animal or something - obviously that would be proven false ) I give you my word that I will join your ranks as a fellow Atheist.
PM me your finds. I'll get you a response.
'Twas a biased tale.Wait, I'm still wondering how many people liked my story...
You know, the one that was on the front page, about the teacher...?
Long answer:You still haven't explained how both Jacob (MAT 1:16) AND Heli (LUK 3:23) are Joseph's father. If the Bible is truly accurate, then Joseph must have two fathers!
I've read many of those, they happen. (I liked it)Wait, I'm still wondering how many people liked my story...
You know, the one that was on the front page, about the teacher...?
<sarcasm>Hey, Agape brings up a great point! Using Christian sources is obviously the best way to discover the truth. Why look for information about the Bible somewhere else, when you can find information about the Bible in the Bible? And when the Bible can't provide answers, speculate! Who needs the scientific process when you have faith?</sarcasm>I honestly suggest you to read the book Hero mentioned, or to try searching Christian websites for answers.
I went to "charismatic" youth meetings when I was a kid. I noticed that I didn't feel a thing, while everyone else just seemed to be showing off to their parents/youth minister going "Hey, Jesus loves me more! That's why I'm screaming and writhing and you aren't!" If your argument lies is the supernatural, Christian websites, and the Bible, perhaps thinking a little bit might solve your God problem? Right now, you're just having other people do the thinking for you.To the argument about God not revealing Himself enough (Beams of Light/Magic Tricks): Find a charismatic Christian who has knowledge of the Holy Spirit (depending on your region, most Pentecostals should do - howewer a growing number of other churches of Christians has a growing knowledge of Him...), and ask him to take you to a "charismatic" youth meeting/other gathering, for the Holy Spirit is the answer to your need of evidence. You won't believe me if I start telling you about "freak" stuff that we [(charismatic) christians] do. So go and see it yourself - it has convinced me.
and expand, as I really liked this part..//enigma said:The reason this is increasing is because more people are being enlightened with the statement "Proof, not belief, developes knowledge." More and more people cannot prove God's existance, therefore they are turning atheistic.
This makes no sense. (To me)To the discussion about quantum mechanics/Big Bang: Please clarify how quantum mechanics counter creationism, and how did the quantum mechanics come to be (remember - everything has a cause in rationalist thinking).
Here's the problem with prophecies in general: they are usually vague. This is so people can read into them and apply them to situations or events and say "there it is just like the prophecy said!"Here's the thing. A substantial amount of the Bible has been proven true. None of it false. If you take just Prophesy for example. There's around 1000 different prophecies. About half of that have been proven to come true. None proven false. That's a score of 500-0. And that's just prophecy. I agree when you say that just because some of something being right doesn't make it automatically true. But when most of something has been proven true, more things being proven true after time, and NONE being proven false then that sounds pretty credible to me.
Conclusion: Joseph had a father called Jacob and a father-in-law called Heli.
That is all speculation, there is no evidence at all that what your source said it true. In fact, in your own source it says that they only posted one explanation of the event, which points to the fact that they don't actually KNOW what happened...it is entirely speculation.I honestly suggest you to read the book Hero mentioned, or to try searching Christian websites for answers.
They don't counter creationism, they counter the need for creationism to explain events. Instead of saying "god did it", we would be able to say that "this happened at this point in time, and this is what it caused". If we can explain how the universe was created, then suddenly god is no longer a "necessary" tool in creation.To the discussion about quantum mechanics/Big Bang: Please clarify how quantum mechanics counter creationism, and how did the quantum mechanics come to be
Not everything happens for a reason, this has already been posted if you were paying attention to this thread. Sometimes, things just happen for no reason. Please keep your fairy tale beliefs out of a post that you're trying to discuss rationality and science in.(remember - everyhing has a cause in rationalist thinking).
The Bible contains 66 books and was written by over 40 different authors, all of the inspired by God. Some books of the Bible are meant to be taken literally (Genesis, Numbers), while others are to be taken metaphorically (Psalms). It contains both facts, biographies, and poetry. Remember, the Bible isn't just one book.You seem to believe the Bible contains facts and can be taken literally while others have posted saying that the Bible isn't meant to be taken literally and what's really important is the general moral teachings.
Does it actually say "this section is figurative" or "this section is literal"? Having to decide what is literal and what is figurative is almost as bad as deciding for yourself what parts are right and wrong. If the you decide that certain things don't make any sense to you, so they must be figurative, then you're just selecting those beliefs you like as the ones that are literally true... you aren't even using the book you claim to be 100% accurate. If you want to claim that a book is 100% accurate, and that you know it's accurate because God made it directly or indirectly (and that you know God made it because it says so), then you have to stick with every little claim that it makes, no matter how stupid those claims are.The Bible contains 66 books and was written by over 40 different authors, all of the inspired by God. Some books of the Bible are meant to be taken literally (Genesis, Numbers), while others are to be taken metaphorically (Psalms). It contains both facts, biographies, and poetry. Remember, the Bible isn't just one book.
Ew this sounds too much like an evil villain from a comic book!!So this 5% claims to have found something that stops a force that hasn't been stopped for thousands of years? I don't think so. Try and try as you might, you can't disprove the Bible. It hasn't been done, this is very much true, and it won't be done. And there's nothing you can do, that hasn't been done before, to change that.
I'm kind of glad you mentioned this, as it's the only thing I like to add in religious debates. Essentially, you fear retribution in the afterlife enough to take Pascal's Wager. Basically it boils down to "believe in God, because you lose nothing in doing so."Look it all comes down to this since nobody will be convincing anybody of anything.
Either I die and realize that my whole life of Christianity has been worthless since God doesn't exist. Or the Bible continues to prove itself correct and the day comes when everyone will realize God's existence.
I won't even mention what will happen to any of you if you die and the latter is true.
One or the other. We'll just have to play the waiting game.
At the very least, I'd rather not risk Situation B.