iLlama
Nothing personal, I protect my people
Short answer, no. That would break the meta and it would make Stall the only viable Archetype.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Metagame Godly Gift
- Thread starter Chessking345
- Start date
Actually, GRASS spam is now legit and viable in Godly Gift. Something like...
with
+
+
Those are in no order, but you get the idea. Grass has everything it needs to make a spam team from power, priority blocker to terrain setter. Also Talonburd no longer a thing is also a supporting factor, though I think Tsareena (or priority blocker in general) is still needed.
"But whynerdy? Grass is a crappy attacking type." Who cares about crappy attacking type? See this power.
252 SpA Choice Specs Serperior Leaf Storm (180 SpA) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina in Grassy Terrain: 193-228 (38.2 - 45.2%) -- 55.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery
+2 252 SpA Choice Specs Serperior Leaf Storm (180 SpA) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina in Grassy Terrain: 387-456 (76.7 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery
Say it does the worst amount, which is 38.2%. So Giratina has 61.4% left after the first hit. After leftovers + Grassy terrain recovery, it increases by 12.5%, so now it has 73.9%. The second hit does a MINIMUM of 76.7%. You know what it means? By this calculation, it's proven that Specially Defensive Giratina is GUARANTEED to be 2HKO'd AFTER Lefties + Grassy Terrain recovery. Without SR. And it's a resisted hit...
How about a 4x resist? Let's see a Specially Defensive Skarmory with 120 HP.
252 SpA Choice Specs Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory in Grassy Terrain: 137-162 (30.8 - 36.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Choice Specs Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD (120 HP) Skarmory in Grassy Terrain: 274-323 (61.7 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Nope. Still has a chance to get 2HKO'd (remember that Skarm is a Flying type, so no Grassy Terrain recovery). And a high chance if SR is on the field. 120 SpD Skarm can take this though.
Of course this is all just calcs. It may be bad in performance because it's a freaking Grass type, which is, well, still a horrible type, but overall, I think Grass spam looks promising.
Those are in no order, but you get the idea. Grass has everything it needs to make a spam team from power, priority blocker to terrain setter. Also Talonburd no longer a thing is also a supporting factor, though I think Tsareena (or priority blocker in general) is still needed.
"But why
252 SpA Choice Specs Serperior Leaf Storm (180 SpA) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina in Grassy Terrain: 193-228 (38.2 - 45.2%) -- 55.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery
+2 252 SpA Choice Specs Serperior Leaf Storm (180 SpA) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina in Grassy Terrain: 387-456 (76.7 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery
Say it does the worst amount, which is 38.2%. So Giratina has 61.4% left after the first hit. After leftovers + Grassy terrain recovery, it increases by 12.5%, so now it has 73.9%. The second hit does a MINIMUM of 76.7%. You know what it means? By this calculation, it's proven that Specially Defensive Giratina is GUARANTEED to be 2HKO'd AFTER Lefties + Grassy Terrain recovery. Without SR. And it's a resisted hit...
How about a 4x resist? Let's see a Specially Defensive Skarmory with 120 HP.
252 SpA Choice Specs Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory in Grassy Terrain: 137-162 (30.8 - 36.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Choice Specs Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD (120 HP) Skarmory in Grassy Terrain: 274-323 (61.7 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Nope. Still has a chance to get 2HKO'd (remember that Skarm is a Flying type, so no Grassy Terrain recovery). And a high chance if SR is on the field. 120 SpD Skarm can take this though.
Of course this is all just calcs. It may be bad in performance because it's a freaking Grass type, which is, well, still a horrible type, but overall, I think Grass spam looks promising.
180 Atk and a 180 power move, put this on a Deo-A team to nuke stuff
Victini @ Choice Scarf/Choice Band
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- Zen Headbutt
- U-turn
Here are some calcs
252+ Atk Choice Band (180 Atk) Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (150 HP) Shuckle: 238-282 (47.2 - 55.9%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Victini (180 Atk) V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (150 HP) Shuckle: 160-189 (31.7 - 37.5%) -- 87.5% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Victini (180 Atk) V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Thick Fat (140 Def) Hariyama: 177-208 (35.9 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Victini (180 Atk) Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (150 HP) Pyukumuku: 358-422 (71 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Victini @ Choice Scarf/Choice Band
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- Zen Headbutt
- U-turn
Here are some calcs
252+ Atk Choice Band (180 Atk) Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (150 HP) Shuckle: 238-282 (47.2 - 55.9%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Victini (180 Atk) V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (150 HP) Shuckle: 160-189 (31.7 - 37.5%) -- 87.5% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Victini (180 Atk) V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Thick Fat (140 Def) Hariyama: 177-208 (35.9 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Victini (180 Atk) Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (150 HP) Pyukumuku: 358-422 (71 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
If you want to wallbreak basically everything in the game just use this and let it inherit 180 atk
Bibarel @ Life Orb
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Quick Attack / Aqua Jet
- Waterfall / Crunch
- Swords Dance
- Return
Swords dance up to +4 and then just hit things for neutral damage, for instance ohkoing fully defensive 150hp toxapex.
With the correct prio move you can potentially sweep most teams, since +4 neutral aqua jet or quick attack will ohko a mon with uninvested 100/100 defenses. A lot of rock types and steel types tend to be geared up to take hits from swellow, so they usually invest entirely in their special defense and you can outspeed them with waterfall, so quick attack is likely the better option. But if you want to knock out some things that you dont like then switch to aqua jet (for instance fast rhyperior, fast tyranitar, etc etc). The option between waterfall and crunch is whether you need to worry about Giratina/Jellicent or not. Crunch wont necessarily ohko all steel and rock types that will usually switch into a normal type wallbreaker, although it naturally deals with Jirachi and Solgaleo still. It has about a 50% chance of ohkoing a 120/140 skarmory investing in hp and special defense, while waterfall generally destroys everything.
+4 252+ Atk Life Orb Bibarel Quick Attack (180 atk) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 359-422 (105.2 - 123.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+4 252+ Atk Life Orb Bibarel Quick Attack (180 atk) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew (115 hp 110 def): 331-390 (89.2 - 105.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+4 252+ Atk Life Orb Bibarel Return (180 atk) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex (150 hp 152 def): 485-573 (96.2 - 113.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
I also can suggest this cancerous dugtrio to eliminate almost anything you want on arceus teams:
Dugtrio @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 HP / 92 Atk / 164 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Final Gambit
- Earthquake
- Memento
- Stone Edge
Pivot this mon into something that aggravates your team and then just press final gambit with 120 maxed hp to kill pretty much any mon, offensive or defensive that bothers you. With this investment, you can ohko tapu koko, xurkitree etc, and with the additional hp you easily eat extremespeed from deoxys-a. This outspeeds jolly base 108 scarfs.
Bibarel @ Life Orb
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Quick Attack / Aqua Jet
- Waterfall / Crunch
- Swords Dance
- Return
Swords dance up to +4 and then just hit things for neutral damage, for instance ohkoing fully defensive 150hp toxapex.
With the correct prio move you can potentially sweep most teams, since +4 neutral aqua jet or quick attack will ohko a mon with uninvested 100/100 defenses. A lot of rock types and steel types tend to be geared up to take hits from swellow, so they usually invest entirely in their special defense and you can outspeed them with waterfall, so quick attack is likely the better option. But if you want to knock out some things that you dont like then switch to aqua jet (for instance fast rhyperior, fast tyranitar, etc etc). The option between waterfall and crunch is whether you need to worry about Giratina/Jellicent or not. Crunch wont necessarily ohko all steel and rock types that will usually switch into a normal type wallbreaker, although it naturally deals with Jirachi and Solgaleo still. It has about a 50% chance of ohkoing a 120/140 skarmory investing in hp and special defense, while waterfall generally destroys everything.
+4 252+ Atk Life Orb Bibarel Quick Attack (180 atk) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 359-422 (105.2 - 123.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+4 252+ Atk Life Orb Bibarel Quick Attack (180 atk) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew (115 hp 110 def): 331-390 (89.2 - 105.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+4 252+ Atk Life Orb Bibarel Return (180 atk) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex (150 hp 152 def): 485-573 (96.2 - 113.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
I also can suggest this cancerous dugtrio to eliminate almost anything you want on arceus teams:
Dugtrio @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 HP / 92 Atk / 164 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Final Gambit
- Earthquake
- Memento
- Stone Edge
Pivot this mon into something that aggravates your team and then just press final gambit with 120 maxed hp to kill pretty much any mon, offensive or defensive that bothers you. With this investment, you can ohko tapu koko, xurkitree etc, and with the additional hp you easily eat extremespeed from deoxys-a. This outspeeds jolly base 108 scarfs.
Last edited:
How are you guys who use stall preparing for Marowak-Alola? If it has 180 Atk it's pretty dificult to switch in to:
+2 252+ Atk (180 Atk) Thick Club Marowak-Alola Bonemerang (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (90 Def) Guzzlord: 472-556 (72.6 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Guzzlord Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Marowak-Alola: 204-240 (78.1 - 91.9%)
Shuckle Alomomola is one of the only things that can handle it:
+2 252+ Atk (180 Atk) Thick Club Marowak-Alola Shadow Bone vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (230 Def) Alomomola: 300-354 (56.1 - 66.2%) And it can Knock Off its Thick Club.
Shuckle Quagsire is also an option:
252+ Atk (180 Atk) Thick Club Marowak-Alola Shadow Bone vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (230 Def) Unaware Quagsire: 151-178 (38.3 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Differently than regular Marowak, it has two amazing STABs and Earthquake/Bonemerang is also very good coverage. It can't be trapped, otherwise it would be easeier to deal with, considering it's weak to Ground. Anyway, Pursuit Focus Sash Dugtrio can be very helpful. Pursuit users like T-Tar are also an option, but they are usually outclassed by Dug in other scenarios (atleast I think so).
+2 252+ Atk (180 Atk) Thick Club Marowak-Alola Bonemerang (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (90 Def) Guzzlord: 472-556 (72.6 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Guzzlord Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Marowak-Alola: 204-240 (78.1 - 91.9%)
Shuckle Alomomola is one of the only things that can handle it:
+2 252+ Atk (180 Atk) Thick Club Marowak-Alola Shadow Bone vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (230 Def) Alomomola: 300-354 (56.1 - 66.2%) And it can Knock Off its Thick Club.
Shuckle Quagsire is also an option:
252+ Atk (180 Atk) Thick Club Marowak-Alola Shadow Bone vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (230 Def) Unaware Quagsire: 151-178 (38.3 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Differently than regular Marowak, it has two amazing STABs and Earthquake/Bonemerang is also very good coverage. It can't be trapped, otherwise it would be easeier to deal with, considering it's weak to Ground. Anyway, Pursuit Focus Sash Dugtrio can be very helpful. Pursuit users like T-Tar are also an option, but they are usually outclassed by Dug in other scenarios (atleast I think so).
sin(pi)
lucky n bad
Ttar can trap it; Banded Pursuit OHKOs after rocks even if they don't switch, and Ttar also helps vs things like Swellow (Adamant Scarf Pursuit outspeeds Swellow, and you can EV it to avoid the 2HKO). It can't switch in, though, as Bonemerang destroys it. Curse or SoakToxic Pyukumuku is also an option, though less safe, as it can lose to Shadow Bone drops and can't switch in safely on Shadow Bone. Bulky stallbreaker Hydreigon checks both Marowak and Pdon - 56 Spa OHKOs zero bulk Marowak and you can avoid the 2HKO from all of their attacks, bar Low Kick and boosted Dragon Claw.
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Pursuit (40BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Marowak-Alola: 204-242 (78.1 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Tyranitar Pursuit (80BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Swellow: 222-262 (85 - 100.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Shadow Bone (180 Atk) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pyukumuku (150 HP): 234-276 (46.4 - 54.7%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery, followed by
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Shadow Bone (180 Atk) vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Pyukumuku (150 HP): 156-184 (30.9 - 36.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery, or
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Bonemerang (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pyukumuku: 184-218 (36.5 - 43.2%) -- approx. 99.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
I've been working on this Defensive core, and it seems pretty cool:
_
__
________ God________Def (+10)_____SpD (+104)
As you can see, it's a FWG (Fire-Water-Grass) core, and it's also a Regenerator core! Ho-Oh is a very cool god for stall, being a very bulky mon itself and being able to pass its amazing SpD, very good HP (something M-Sab really apreciates), and you can choose between Speed (90) for something like T-Tar or Attack (130) for Dugtrio. With M-Sab on the team, we have replications of two well-known cores: M-Sab + Talonflame (Ho-Oh) and Ho-Oh + Arceus Water (Alomomola). I have to say that this 4 members I mentioned lack Ghost and Normal Resists (if you're Swellow), so unless you use AV max SpD Ho-Oh, there's no switch-in for Swellow (180 SpA), and also no switch-in for Marowak (180 Atk). As any stall team, there should be a Defogger, and I think Skarmory is the best mon for this job, so you have only one spot to cover both Marowak and Swellow, kinda forcing you to run Pursuit trapper T-Tar, which is sad 'cause 130 Atk Dugtrio should be amazing. Anyway, how would you build around this core? I'm interested in opinions about how to better utilize this core on Stall/Balance teams!
Hoping this wins OMotM asap! (Sablenite is banned on Dragon Heaven).
________ God________Def (+10)_____SpD (+104)
As you can see, it's a FWG (Fire-Water-Grass) core, and it's also a Regenerator core! Ho-Oh is a very cool god for stall, being a very bulky mon itself and being able to pass its amazing SpD, very good HP (something M-Sab really apreciates), and you can choose between Speed (90) for something like T-Tar or Attack (130) for Dugtrio. With M-Sab on the team, we have replications of two well-known cores: M-Sab + Talonflame (Ho-Oh) and Ho-Oh + Arceus Water (Alomomola). I have to say that this 4 members I mentioned lack Ghost and Normal Resists (if you're Swellow), so unless you use AV max SpD Ho-Oh, there's no switch-in for Swellow (180 SpA), and also no switch-in for Marowak (180 Atk). As any stall team, there should be a Defogger, and I think Skarmory is the best mon for this job, so you have only one spot to cover both Marowak and Swellow, kinda forcing you to run Pursuit trapper T-Tar, which is sad 'cause 130 Atk Dugtrio should be amazing. Anyway, how would you build around this core? I'm interested in opinions about how to better utilize this core on Stall/Balance teams!
Hoping this wins OMotM asap! (Sablenite is banned on Dragon Heaven).
Last edited:
Another option for a Swellow counter (does nothing to Marowak tho) is Nihilego, which loves getting defense from any Uber that isn't Deoxys N or A (even Deo-N is a boost of some kind... but who uses Deo-N?).I've been working on this Defensive core, and it seems pretty cool:
___
________ God________Def (+10)_____SpD (+104)
As you can see, it's a FWG (Fire-Water-Grass) core, and it's also a Regenerator core! Ho-Oh is a very cool god for stall, being a very bulky mon itself and being able to pass its amazing SpD, very good HP (something M-Sab really apreciates), and you can choose between Speed (90) for something like T-Tar or Attack (130) for Dugtrio. With M-Sab on the team, we have replications of two well-known cores: M-Sab + Talonflame (Ho-Oh) and Ho-Oh + Arceus Water (Alomomola). I have to say that this 4 members I mentioned lack Ghost and Normal Resists (if you're Swellow), so unless you use AV max SpD Ho-Oh, there's no switch-in for Swellow (180 SpA), and also no switch-in for Marowak (180 Atk). As any stall team, there should be a Defogger, and I think Skarmory is the best mon for this job, so you have only one spot to cover both Marowak and Swellow, kinda forcing you to run Pursuit trapper T-Tar, which is sad 'cause 130 Atk Dugtrio should be amazing. Anyway, how would you build around this core? I'm interested in opinions about how to better utilize this core on Stall/Balance teams!
Hoping this wins OMotM asap! (Sablenite is banned on Dragon Heaven).
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Nihilego: 130-153 (30.8 - 36.2%) -- 59.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
if they decide to run HP Ground...
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Nihilego: 300-356 (71 - 84.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery... still doesn't OHKO after rocks.
My recommended set is right here, I just threw it together so it won't be perfect (for instance I haven't even considered tanking physical hits with its shiny new defense stat)
Nihilego @ Black Sludge
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 56 Def / 204 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Power Gem
- Sludge Bomb / Hidden Power Ground
- Stealth Rock / Rest
- Toxic / Sleep Talk
OO: Screens, AV, Air Balloon, Thunderbolt, Clear Smog, Acid Spray, Toxic Spikes
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 204+ SpD Nihilego: 312-368 (73.9 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery (where the 204+ spd comes from)
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 56 Def / 204 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Power Gem
- Sludge Bomb / Hidden Power Ground
- Stealth Rock / Rest
- Toxic / Sleep Talk
OO: Screens, AV, Air Balloon, Thunderbolt, Clear Smog, Acid Spray, Toxic Spikes
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 204+ SpD Nihilego: 312-368 (73.9 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery (where the 204+ spd comes from)
Basically I don't think Alomomola gained that much from the defense boost and Nihilego would appreciate it more, and is also a generally solid option on defensive teams.
An option for an interesting but potentially disappointing Marowak counter (more in general than on Ho-Oh team) is Hydreigon, which without any stat boosts can survive the 2hko from any attack other than Flare Blitz from 180 attack Marowak.
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hydreigon: 212-250 (54.6 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Shadow Bone vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hydreigon: 150-177 (38.6 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
On something like a Giratina team, given 120 defense,
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hydreigon: 174-206 (44.8 - 53%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Marowak-Alola: 306-362 (94.4 - 111.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
EDIT: 0 SpA Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Marowak-Alola: 252-296 (77.7 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
In return Hydreigon can OHKO after SR, even with full HP investment.
0 SpA Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Marowak-Alola: 252-296 (96.5 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
With no HP invesment it usually OHKOs even without SR.
Fixed @ below, not a major thing tbh.
Seems niche but usable.
Last edited:
More oversharing:
Solrock @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Morning Sun
- Rock Slide
- Stealth Rock /filler
- Will-O-Wisp /filler
Solrock is actually extremely legit in gotg as a rock type which A) is not a god (arceus-rock), B) not obliterated by hp fighting/bonemerang coverage (tyranitar and friends), C) not a mega (m-aerodactyl) while still eating fire type attacks AND having recovery. It is also pretty much the only defensive pokemon in the game which will reliably wall a standard 180 spa nidoqueen (both STABs, fire blast ice beam) which is underused but a nightmare for stall. On top of everything else, it can juuust about wall non-knock off Deoxys-A and cant be trapped by dugtrio.
It wants to inherit around 120 special defense to get the job done.
252+ Atk Smeargle (180 atk) V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solrock: 157-185 (40.8 - 48.1%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Swellow (180 spa) Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Solrock: 153-180 (39.8 - 46.8%)
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoqueen (180 spa) Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Solrock: 117-139 (30.4 - 36.1%)
On the downside, its typing obviously brings tons of weaknesses that makes it bad when acting as a generic wall; outside of its specific niche as a meta-normal/bird counter, its not going to exactly overperform as a physical or special wall. It can also be stalled out of morning sun pp which doesnt help, plus pursuit trapping and bad weather can cause problems. Its average defense stat + no investment means it has a 10% chance to get 2hkod by Ho-ohs brave bird too. So dont just throw it on any team :T
Solrock @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Morning Sun
- Rock Slide
- Stealth Rock /filler
- Will-O-Wisp /filler
Solrock is actually extremely legit in gotg as a rock type which A) is not a god (arceus-rock), B) not obliterated by hp fighting/bonemerang coverage (tyranitar and friends), C) not a mega (m-aerodactyl) while still eating fire type attacks AND having recovery. It is also pretty much the only defensive pokemon in the game which will reliably wall a standard 180 spa nidoqueen (both STABs, fire blast ice beam) which is underused but a nightmare for stall. On top of everything else, it can juuust about wall non-knock off Deoxys-A and cant be trapped by dugtrio.
It wants to inherit around 120 special defense to get the job done.
252+ Atk Smeargle (180 atk) V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solrock: 157-185 (40.8 - 48.1%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Swellow (180 spa) Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Solrock: 153-180 (39.8 - 46.8%)
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoqueen (180 spa) Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Solrock: 117-139 (30.4 - 36.1%)
On the downside, its typing obviously brings tons of weaknesses that makes it bad when acting as a generic wall; outside of its specific niche as a meta-normal/bird counter, its not going to exactly overperform as a physical or special wall. It can also be stalled out of morning sun pp which doesnt help, plus pursuit trapping and bad weather can cause problems. Its average defense stat + no investment means it has a 10% chance to get 2hkod by Ho-ohs brave bird too. So dont just throw it on any team :T
Last edited:
Liked Solrock!
But, Morning Sun is a bad recovery, as you said.
(atk receiver)
Keldeo @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Aqua Jet
- Aqua Tail
- Stone Edge
This is a try i give. Now, Keldeo can use Justified, and use a best movepool with Priority.
But, Morning Sun is a bad recovery, as you said.
(atk receiver)
Keldeo @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Aqua Jet
- Aqua Tail
- Stone Edge
This is a try i give. Now, Keldeo can use Justified, and use a best movepool with Priority.
Last time I posted I was talking about a core using only "old" mons, this time I'm using S&M mons and it's a core that I think will fit Balance teams more easily!
-----
---
---HP (+100)---------------Def (+25)-------------------God
I'm not sure about Alola-Muk, but it seems like a good fit, considering both Toxapex and Giratina struggle agaist powerful Psychic, Ghost and Dark types. Toxapex and Muk apreciate Giratina-Origin, becausd it deals with Ground and Electric types. Toxapex helps Giratina dealing with Ice and Fairy (to be fair, Toxapex deals with almost everything, amazing 150/152/142 bulk) types. 2/3 of the core don't have reliable recovery, so unless you have very good hazard removers and Wish suport, this core is probably not that good on stall. On the other hand, Balance can really abuse this, because Giratina-O has also very good 120 Spa/ 120 Atk that are not being used, 100 SpD or 90 Spe. Maybe someone could find a better mon than Muk-Alola, but on paper it's a good fit. 120 offensive may not seem like much, but that's what Arceus offer and can really improve mons like Swellow. I'm hoping someone can make a team using this core! (180 Atk A-Marowak and 180 SpA Swellow are problematic, but that's nothing new lol).
---HP (+100)---------------Def (+25)-------------------God
I'm not sure about Alola-Muk, but it seems like a good fit, considering both Toxapex and Giratina struggle agaist powerful Psychic, Ghost and Dark types. Toxapex and Muk apreciate Giratina-Origin, becausd it deals with Ground and Electric types. Toxapex helps Giratina dealing with Ice and Fairy (to be fair, Toxapex deals with almost everything, amazing 150/152/142 bulk) types. 2/3 of the core don't have reliable recovery, so unless you have very good hazard removers and Wish suport, this core is probably not that good on stall. On the other hand, Balance can really abuse this, because Giratina-O has also very good 120 Spa/ 120 Atk that are not being used, 100 SpD or 90 Spe. Maybe someone could find a better mon than Muk-Alola, but on paper it's a good fit. 120 offensive may not seem like much, but that's what Arceus offer and can really improve mons like Swellow. I'm hoping someone can make a team using this core! (180 Atk A-Marowak and 180 SpA Swellow are problematic, but that's nothing new lol).
Last edited:
Pheromosa is an Uber now. Perhaps if Deo-A gets banned, this will take its place.
atk from DEO-A
groundium z
252+ Atk(180) Dugtrio Earthquake(180 bp) vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def(150 hp) Toxapex: 446-528 (88.4 - 104.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
i would also like umbreon with 150 hp
will have decent 150/110/130(not good comparing toxapex)
but has access to wish and stab foul play which may be nice
with 252 ev hp investment we get 252 hp per wish,
not to mention dark types being a "requirement" vs lele teams
groundium z
252+ Atk(180) Dugtrio Earthquake(180 bp) vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def(150 hp) Toxapex: 446-528 (88.4 - 104.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
i would also like umbreon with 150 hp
will have decent 150/110/130(not good comparing toxapex)
but has access to wish and stab foul play which may be nice
with 252 ev hp investment we get 252 hp per wish,
not to mention dark types being a "requirement" vs lele teams
Yay, so happy this won OMotM! I made some sample teams - I have no idea how good they are(n't), as Dragon Heaven was down when I went to test them and ROM's Abyssal Bot doesn't have a team. On Paper they seem pretty solid though.
Kyurem-W Bulky Offence
Kyurem-W is such an underrated donor. It gives insane SpA, good Atk and great bulk as well - 125/90/100 is better than Bronzong. Its Speed is average, but there's still a lot of stuff that appreciates the boost. Jirachi is the standard Stealth Rock set, now even bulkier. Not much to say about it, sets up Rocks and then heals something when its job is done. Dugtrio is the standard trapper set, now with an extra 20 base Attack. Its goal is to remove stuff like Toxapex and Heatran so that Celesteela can sweep later on. Kyurem-W is Kyurem-W - its job is just to hit stuff really hard, opening up holes for Celesteela to sweep later on. Speaking of Celesteela, it's the standard Autotomize set, but while before it had to make do with an average base 107 Special Attack, it now gets an insane base 170! And Beast Boost makes it even more powerful with every KO! And it's very bulky as well, so it's hard to revenge kill. Buzzwole is my general tank. In standard OU, it pretty much dies to any neutral special attack. But now with base 100 SpD it can survive a Choice Specs Boomburst from Swellow with 180 SpA. Lastly, I needed a Fire type check and that's what Tyranitar offers. With Kyurem-W's Speed, it can now outrun base 150s. Otherwise, standard Scarf Ttar, nothing else to say.
Sticky Web Rayquaza HO
Rayquaza's another underrated donor. Sure it may not give as much raw power or Speed as Deoxys-A, but it compensates by not ruining anything's defences: 105/90/90 is pretty good after all. Shuckle is in the HP slot, as Rayquaza gives it 105/230/230 bulk, easily giving it the time to set up its hazards. Smeargle inherits Rayquaza's huge Attack stat, letting it actually use its offensive movepool. Its main role is revenge killer, but it can also clean late game. Fake Out + Extreme Speed is obvious; with Technician Bonemerang has 150 power. Shadow Sneak has almost as much power as Sucker Punch thanks to Technician, but doesn't require as much prediction. Rayquaza serves as part of a dual sweeper core with Kartana, with one weakening the opposing team for the other to clear up later. Starmie is my hazard remover, and loves having Rayquaza's massive Special Attack. Not much to say about that set, standard offensive Rapid Spin Starmie. Kartana inherits Rayquaza's Special Defence, meaning it can now actually take a neutral Special Attack without dying. With Rayquaza's Special Defence it can survive Assault Vest Tangrowth's Hidden Power Fire. Lastly, Conkeldurr can abuse its brilliant-by-comparison base 95 Speed to outrun everything without a scarf on the ground with Sticky Webs down.
Kyurem-W Bulky Offence
Kyurem-W is such an underrated donor. It gives insane SpA, good Atk and great bulk as well - 125/90/100 is better than Bronzong. Its Speed is average, but there's still a lot of stuff that appreciates the boost. Jirachi is the standard Stealth Rock set, now even bulkier. Not much to say about it, sets up Rocks and then heals something when its job is done. Dugtrio is the standard trapper set, now with an extra 20 base Attack. Its goal is to remove stuff like Toxapex and Heatran so that Celesteela can sweep later on. Kyurem-W is Kyurem-W - its job is just to hit stuff really hard, opening up holes for Celesteela to sweep later on. Speaking of Celesteela, it's the standard Autotomize set, but while before it had to make do with an average base 107 Special Attack, it now gets an insane base 170! And Beast Boost makes it even more powerful with every KO! And it's very bulky as well, so it's hard to revenge kill. Buzzwole is my general tank. In standard OU, it pretty much dies to any neutral special attack. But now with base 100 SpD it can survive a Choice Specs Boomburst from Swellow with 180 SpA. Lastly, I needed a Fire type check and that's what Tyranitar offers. With Kyurem-W's Speed, it can now outrun base 150s. Otherwise, standard Scarf Ttar, nothing else to say.
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 200 SpD / 56 Spe
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn
- Healing Wish
Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Reversal
- Sucker Punch
Kyurem-White @ Life Orb
Ability: Turboblaze
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Fusion Flare
- Draco Meteor
- Roost
Celesteela @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Autotomize
- Air Slash
- Fire Blast
- Giga Drain
Buzzwole @ Assault Vest
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Hammer Arm
- Leech Life
- Ice Punch
- Poison Jab
Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Earthquake
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 200 SpD / 56 Spe
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn
- Healing Wish
Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Reversal
- Sucker Punch
Kyurem-White @ Life Orb
Ability: Turboblaze
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Fusion Flare
- Draco Meteor
- Roost
Celesteela @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Autotomize
- Air Slash
- Fire Blast
- Giga Drain
Buzzwole @ Assault Vest
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Hammer Arm
- Leech Life
- Ice Punch
- Poison Jab
Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Earthquake
Sticky Web Rayquaza HO
Rayquaza's another underrated donor. Sure it may not give as much raw power or Speed as Deoxys-A, but it compensates by not ruining anything's defences: 105/90/90 is pretty good after all. Shuckle is in the HP slot, as Rayquaza gives it 105/230/230 bulk, easily giving it the time to set up its hazards. Smeargle inherits Rayquaza's huge Attack stat, letting it actually use its offensive movepool. Its main role is revenge killer, but it can also clean late game. Fake Out + Extreme Speed is obvious; with Technician Bonemerang has 150 power. Shadow Sneak has almost as much power as Sucker Punch thanks to Technician, but doesn't require as much prediction. Rayquaza serves as part of a dual sweeper core with Kartana, with one weakening the opposing team for the other to clear up later. Starmie is my hazard remover, and loves having Rayquaza's massive Special Attack. Not much to say about that set, standard offensive Rapid Spin Starmie. Kartana inherits Rayquaza's Special Defence, meaning it can now actually take a neutral Special Attack without dying. With Rayquaza's Special Defence it can survive Assault Vest Tangrowth's Hidden Power Fire. Lastly, Conkeldurr can abuse its brilliant-by-comparison base 95 Speed to outrun everything without a scarf on the ground with Sticky Webs down.
Shuckle @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Sticky Web
- Encore
- Knock Off
Smeargle @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Bonemerang
- Shadow Sneak
Rayquaza @ Life Orb
Ability: Air Lock
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Dragon Ascent
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed
Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Psyshock
- Rapid Spin
Kartana @ Steelium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Smart Strike
- Sacred Sword
Conkeldurr @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
- Facade
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Sticky Web
- Encore
- Knock Off
Smeargle @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Bonemerang
- Shadow Sneak
Rayquaza @ Life Orb
Ability: Air Lock
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Dragon Ascent
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed
Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Psyshock
- Rapid Spin
Kartana @ Steelium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Smart Strike
- Sacred Sword
Conkeldurr @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
- Facade
iLlama
Nothing personal, I protect my people
This was brought up last generation, noting Shuckle, Kyurem-B, and others as potential issues for distributing stats to other Pokémon, however we felt that even though these Pokémon would be giving some incredible stats away, they would ultimately be limiting your teams overall capabilities because of how limiting their stats would be. Take Shuckle for example. It has two insanely high stats in Defense and Special Defense, yet its other stats are terrible. Pair that with the fact that these non-Uber Pokémon must be in the first slot to pass stats, it already begins to limit what you can work with Pokémon wise. Then you also have to consider how teams with non-Uber 'God' Pokémon can matchup against teams lead by Deoxys-A, Rayquaza, Arceus, Groudon, etc. which can easily pass a plethora of stats that would completely dismantle the non-Uber team. In reality, you'd be taking a huge handicap.
If you actually use Shuckle as your god (first slot) you're giving up on any major boost besides Defenses, so the power level of the team is OU at best. Shuckle wasn't used as a god last gen and it won't be this time.
It actually actively makes stall worse since it forces you into 5 mon teams, given how much Shuckle sucks
I have to disagree on the point that deo a and co can dismantle them. With shuckle's defenses, nothing can 2HKO the pokemon in those slots, usually Pokemon with few weaknesses that can be taken advantage of. The only way to beat them is using stallbreakers that doesn't fit any team archetype. i dunno if they are broken, but just to respect the thread it shouldn't work.
Stallbreakers not only fit balance and,offense archetypes, they're necessities. No clue what you're on about here, I suggest you try some more stuff before reaching odd,conclusions
Would HP or Special Attack be a better slot for Tapu Fini? I was going with its Calm Mind set, with Arceus as my god.
Any time you want to give the bot a team, upload it to hastebin, then PM either me or dsm77773 with the hastebin file name (the bit after the /) and format, and we can then upload it to the bot.
Heres a decent core from last gen that isnt Deoxys if youre into that sort of thing
+
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Moonlight
- Moonblast
- Heal Bell
Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 100 SpD / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fire Punch
- Substitute
- Precipice Blades
- Swords Dance
Sableye-Mega @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 140 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Calm Mind
- Snarl
- Will-O-Wisp
You can run Sableye and Groudon any way you like, but the Clefable is pretty much always Unaware+CM. Whether you wanna throw a thunder wave in there is up to you.
Primal Groudon is the best pokemon in the game, and this is a good reason to pick it as a god. It also has a great typing to cover the weaknesses of two very useful mons on balance teams, Sableye and Clefable (tanking fairy type hits for sableye, steel and poison hits for clefable), and as far as role compression goes, these 3 mons can cover a lot of ground (3 potential wincons, stealth rock, volt switch immunity, setup prevention, hazard control, phazing, wallbreaker/stallbreaker, rock polish sweeper cleric, etc). It also helps that Pdon stops rain strategies with total ease, which is one of sableye's weaknesses as an all-purpose wall. So mess around with these 3 mons and youll probably find them equally good this gen!until sableye gets banned
just make sure you are running answers to serperior/grassspam + normalspam.
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Moonlight
- Moonblast
- Heal Bell
Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 100 SpD / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fire Punch
- Substitute
- Precipice Blades
- Swords Dance
Sableye-Mega @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 140 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Calm Mind
- Snarl
- Will-O-Wisp
You can run Sableye and Groudon any way you like, but the Clefable is pretty much always Unaware+CM. Whether you wanna throw a thunder wave in there is up to you.
Primal Groudon is the best pokemon in the game, and this is a good reason to pick it as a god. It also has a great typing to cover the weaknesses of two very useful mons on balance teams, Sableye and Clefable (tanking fairy type hits for sableye, steel and poison hits for clefable), and as far as role compression goes, these 3 mons can cover a lot of ground (3 potential wincons, stealth rock, volt switch immunity, setup prevention, hazard control, phazing, wallbreaker/stallbreaker, rock polish sweeper cleric, etc). It also helps that Pdon stops rain strategies with total ease, which is one of sableye's weaknesses as an all-purpose wall. So mess around with these 3 mons and youll probably find them equally good this gen!
just make sure you are running answers to serperior/grassspam + normalspam.
Last edited: