I think we should actually change a small part of this meta: instead of your god being an Uber or being in the first slot, why don't we just make it so you're allowed one shiny, and that shiny counts as your god. It'd instantly make Kyub team be able to work, as well as teams like Kartana, or even Wailord or other very healthy mons. It would add a lot to the meta, and many people would just make their god an Uber anyways.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Metagame Godly Gift
- Thread starter Chessking345
- Start date
Shuckle should be brought down. While yes, it can set up Stealth Rock and Sticky Web, it NEEDS Mental Herb to not be 100% Taunt bait and it's still set-up bait regardless.
Smeargle is legitimately one of the best Attack recipients in the meta and should be brought up to A+ for the reasons Pipotchi already stated.
Smeargle is legitimately one of the best Attack recipients in the meta and should be brought up to A+ for the reasons Pipotchi already stated.
Only the base form can pass on stats.
I put it on a team and I got an conclusion: all mega forms in uber except blaziken do not pass on stats
aranaquid should get the 95 base attack but it got 10 base attack from shuckle
celesteela got that 5 speed instead of 90
my team for that test
That's because Kangaskhan alone isn't a god. Your shuckle is.
Champion Leon
Banned deucer.
It’s only Uber with the item. The reason Blaziken passed it before it Megas is because Blaziken is Uber before it Megas as well due to Speed Boost:
https://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/blaziken/
Didn't save any of the replays, but Necrozma-Ultra isn't getting its boosted speed tier when Ultra Bursting. It may be because Necrozma's in my Speed slot on this team, but I don't know.
https://pokepast.es/4a3d79a642362326
https://pokepast.es/4a3d79a642362326
The ubers in this meta inherit their own base stats, which doesn't change anything other than overriding the megas/ultra burst change to the respective stat. You can either use this to your advantage by putting necrozma in defense or Sp.Def, where ultra bursting would normally reduce those stats, or simply run a different, non-ultra set if you keep it in speed.
I've been scrolling through the VR and various tier lists on showdown and I found some mons that might be useful in Godly Gift. I havent tested them all out (some of them) so they might be worse than i think they are ;p
I might add more in the near future but these are the ones i made a psuedo analysis of.
(click on the pokemon icon to see their analysis)
I broke my leg and im stuck at home so yeh, thats where i get the time to do this.
Edit: Feel free to try out the sets. Like i said, i havent used all of them yet so let me know if any of these sets work!
I might add more in the near future but these are the ones i made a psuedo analysis of.
(click on the pokemon icon to see their analysis)
I broke my leg and im stuck at home so yeh, thats where i get the time to do this.
Edit: Feel free to try out the sets. Like i said, i havent used all of them yet so let me know if any of these sets work!
Last edited:
Champion Leon
Banned deucer.
For Non-Ubers: You could also put it in the HP slot while another teammate serves as an Uber, such as 150 HP Giratina. This allows you to improve bulk, in situations if you have lower Defenses but get a nice boost upon mega evolving, which can good for things like Steelix, which gets 230 Defense, 95 Special Defense and lastly (thru Giratina), 150 Base HP, on mega evolving.
Keep in mind, Steelix has an original base 75 HP, so you have effectively doubled the base HP and that translates into +150 HP.
(+ Base stats are calculated into actual stats as 1 base stat = 2 actual points).
wut if it is holding the mega stone? that is for me
Im having an issue i want to use zygarde complete and says its not allowed
So, that's where Shuckle comes in: making great use of basically any HP stat ever, Shuckle can easily become one of the hardest to kill mons in this meta and given his movepool, one of the greatest pivots. Shuckle's movepool is not all that diverse, but it has just what it needs. Sticky Web + Stealth Rock means that whenever it switches in, it can keep momentum by setting either one. Toxic means non poison/steel defoggers can't switch in freely if they're also needed to take care of other threats (more on this later), Encore makes sure Shuckle is not used as setup bait and Knock Off is always useful for getting rid of leftovers and potentially choice items.
What really makes me feel like Shuckle is too much sometimes is how it can deal with real, big threats in the meta (252+ Atk (150) Life Orb Smeargle V-create vs. 252 HP (120) / 168+ Def Shuckle: 114-135 (28.1 - 33.3% ) / 252 SpA (150) Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 252 HP (120) / 88 SpD Shuckle: 87-102 (19.5 - 22.9%), for example), while harassing defensive mons with Toxic and potentially Knock Off, and putting pressure on you to defog the webs away, not only meaning that if your defogger is needed to deal with something else, it's gonna have this extra pressure over it, but also that you're always being forced defog (as defoggers are way more common than spinners) any rocks you might've set up, which in turn makes Shuckle's life much easier, as SR is probably Shuckle's only real weakness. Also, Shuckle's effectiveness and longevity means offensive teams lacking consistent hazard removal and not using Sticky Web are already at a huge disadvantage
Now, I don't need anyone telling me how you can deal with Shuckle. Yes, I know you can Taunt Shuckle or that Diancie-M exists. My point is most teams don't have a Magic Bounce mon and even if they have a Taunt mon, are you gonna double switch every time you have a mon on the field that can let Shuckle in? My argument is based around how much Shuckle can do for a team.
I think Shuckle's best set is probably something like Leftovers/ Iapapa Berry, any ability honestly (it's not stuck with Sturdy given how it's p much never getting OHKOed) and Sticky Web-Stealth Rock-Toxic-Encore/Rest/Knock Off.
tl;dr: Due to Shuckle's absurd bulk, decent typing and access to two amazing hazards, including Sticky Web, a hazard that has no good setter in normal play, it can act as a pivot during the match, taking hits that most offensive teams wouldn't be able to deal with otherwise and almost never having dead turns, as it can always set one of its two hazards or cripple something with a Toxic or Knock Off. This works so well because simply having Sticky Web up is really game changing, something that's not true for most other hazards (atleast not to the same extent). It also pressures defoggers, which can either help its teammates or Shuckle itself, by keeping rocks off the field.
come on man, it STILL ISN'T GOD EVEN WITH THE ITEM!! Geez, you know better.
and sorry 4 being angry
Youre referencing stuff that Shuckle is used as a check to to call it broken, which isnt fair. one of the few reasons to use Shuckle on your team is to handle normal type attackers, in particular Swellow. But if you have a mon that 3hkos Shuckle, you're fine- and really you should. There are many powerhouses in the game, and Shuckle has plenty of exploitable weaknesses and its no recovery outside of Rest + hazard weakness make it harder to keep alive. If Shuckle loses its leftovers or is relying on an Iapapa berry or mental herb, things get even rougher.I honestly think Shuckle should be looked at. Aside from the sets that may be considered gimmicks (even though they can be extremely powerful in some match ups) like Contrary SSmash/Rest/Infestation/Toxic, the sets that I really wanna bring attention to are the Sticky Web ones. Why? Because, in my opinion, one of the things that usually keeps Sticky Web in check is the fact that most setters are, simply put, bad. They are either too weak, too slow or too frail, so they usually get one or two shots at setting them up and that's it (fun fact: Shuckle has the highest BST out of all the mons that learn Sticky Web).
So, that's where Shuckle comes in: making great use of basically any HP stat ever, Shuckle can easily become one of the hardest to kill mons in this meta and given his movepool, one of the greatest pivots. Shuckle's movepool is not all that diverse, but it has just what it needs. Sticky Web + Stealth Rock means that whenever it switches in, it can keep momentum by setting either one. Toxic means non poison/steel defoggers can't switch in freely if they're also needed to take care of other threats (more on this later), Encore makes sure Shuckle is not used as setup bait and Knock Off is always useful for getting rid of leftovers and potentially choice items.
What really makes me feel like Shuckle is too much sometimes is how it can deal with real, big threats in the meta (252+ Atk (150) Life Orb Smeargle V-create vs. 252 HP (120) / 168+ Def Shuckle: 114-135 (28.1 - 33.3% ) / 252 SpA (150) Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 252 HP (120) / 88 SpD Shuckle: 87-102 (19.5 - 22.9%), for example), while harassing defensive mons with Toxic and potentially Knock Off, and putting pressure on you to defog the webs away, not only meaning that if your defogger is needed to deal with something else, it's gonna have this extra pressure over it, but also that you're always being forced defog (as defoggers are way more common than spinners) any rocks you might've set up, which in turn makes Shuckle's life much easier, as SR is probably Shuckle's only real weakness. Also, Shuckle's effectiveness and longevity means offensive teams lacking consistent hazard removal and not using Sticky Web are already at a huge disadvantage
Now, I don't need anyone telling me how you can deal with Shuckle. Yes, I know you can Taunt Shuckle or that Diancie-M exists. My point is most teams don't have a Magic Bounce mon and even if they have a Taunt mon, are you gonna double switch every time you have a mon on the field that can let Shuckle in? My argument is based around how much Shuckle can do for a team.
I think Shuckle's best set is probably something like Leftovers/ Iapapa Berry, any ability honestly (it's not stuck with Sturdy given how it's p much never getting OHKOed) and Sticky Web-Stealth Rock-Toxic-Encore/Rest/Knock Off.
tl;dr: Due to Shuckle's absurd bulk, decent typing and access to two amazing hazards, including Sticky Web, a hazard that has no good setter in normal play, it can act as a pivot during the match, taking hits that most offensive teams wouldn't be able to deal with otherwise and almost never having dead turns, as it can always set one of its two hazards or cripple something with a Toxic or Knock Off. This works so well because simply having Sticky Web up is really game changing, something that's not true for most other hazards (atleast not to the same extent). It also pressures defoggers, which can either help its teammates or Shuckle itself, by keeping rocks off the field.
Shuckle is a support mon at its very best, and doesnt enable any broken playstyles. Yes, Im tired of seeing sticky web every single game too, because it makes the meta incredibly boring- but its not an incredibly strong strategy in the meta if you just use things that beat it, for instance Serperior is one of the best special attackers in the meta that not only switches in on and beats Shuckle, has defog, synthesis/sub sets to shrug off any of Shuckle's efforts, but also uses it as a snack to set up to +6 spa AND benefits from sticky web being down. If you set webs against Serperior, youre honestly crazy. Rain is absurdly strong, and has a flying defogger in Pelipper that doesnt care about webs and Kingdra, (one of the best mons in the tier even though the tier list doesnt reflect it) Kartana (also found on rain teams) and Swampert easily break it. Webs can be blocked easily with any kind of Magic Bouncer as you said before, Mega Diancie is a fantastic mon in the tier and honestly often a better rock type to put in your HP slot. There are so many countermeasures to sweeping in this tier as well, including Ditto and low defense inherited Pyukumuku that can take out problem pokemon that are abusing Sticky Web for a sweep. Stealth Rock and Spikes are still much more impactful hazards, and flying types can still find easy opportunities to Defog away webs throughout the match.
Shuckle can be a pivot of sorts when dealing with choice scarf pokemon and all-out-attackers, but it can also lose a lot of momentum against many steel types (Kartana, Necrozma DM are two very common examples) and have auto-lose matchups where you're playing a whole pokemon down, in one of the most important slots to utilise. Thats not a good situation. This is also a tier where its damn hard to keep rocks off the field anyway, because we have monstrous setters like Pdon, MDiancie, Tyranitar, Excadrill, Nidoking etc. So while Shuckle also has this quality, I dont think it stands out particularly.
Shuckle has an issue when it comes to slots. No Shuckle should be missing out on a hazard, or Encore. It also wants to use the other hazard, Rest, and Toxic. This isnt so much a case of having lots of options, but each of these things help cover a crippling weakness that is otherwise open to exploitation. If you choose to run Knock Off or Infestation, you're leaving Shuckle with even more problems. Shuckle got worse since Z moves were added also, because mons can also now set up on it and then ohko something through Encore.
Dont get me wrong, Shuckle is a B tier mon. That means its good/usable. But ppl should have adapted their teams to beat it by now, theres rly no excuse. Its honestly like losing to Chansey in OU. I prepare for Shuckle and rarely have a problem with it, but when I try and make a fun team without considering it I can sometimes get 6-0d. But thats because I didnt try and build my team competitively. Its a shame the tier list will stay on crack for the forseeable future but yea its being gassed up way too much
Lastly: fast Araquanid is great and should be used more as a webs setter. lul
Shell Smash is a gimmicky "Gotcha!" against teams that haven't prepared for full stall. SubSD Kartana with Sacred Sword (one example of many) just sets up in its face and then continues to break shit.
Serperior beats all the competitve shuckle sets 1v1 lol, defensive setup is a major gimmick and like Schpoonman said if youre prepared to deal with passive damage in general you've got it handled anyway.
We can call it "Shining Gift" or "Gift of the Glowing" or "Shiny Gift" :D
Gods pass stats BEFORE they mega evolve. Since Kangaskhan is not an Uber without Mega Evolving, it will not count as a god on a godly gift team.
You also cannot have Mega Kangaskhan on a team with another Uber.
Champion Leon
Banned deucer.
Can we discuss what good partnerships work with eachother, synergy-wise?
We hear a lot about a God and a recipient, but what about the other slots of the team?
Let’s discuss what makes a good “core” of 3 mons, offense, defense, support, mixed, etc.
We hear a lot about a God and a recipient, but what about the other slots of the team?
Let’s discuss what makes a good “core” of 3 mons, offense, defense, support, mixed, etc.
Hawlucha and practically any Tapu (Koko in SpA or Lele/Bulu in Spe) are pretty ridiculous, and my go-to since Hawlucha has the highest BP moves out of any Unburden mon. I've seen a couple rain teams with Rayquaza (Swift Swim in Attack, SpA, and Mega Swampert in Speed) and played one that was probably the least fun I've ever had in a GG game.
I'm starting to think Abilities that double speed thanks to a field condition, overall as abilities, are uncompetitive but that's not a battle I think I'll ever really pick.
I'm starting to think Abilities that double speed thanks to a field condition, overall as abilities, are uncompetitive but that's not a battle I think I'll ever really pick.