dhelmise | Fraise | Les2BG | Lily | Senko | TTech | Result | |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Espathra | RESTRICT | RESTRICT | RESTRICT | RESTRICT | RESTRICT | RESTRICT | RESTRICT (6-0-0) |
Flutter Mane | RESTRICT | RESTRICT | RESTRICT | RESTRICT | RESTRICT | RESTRICT | RESTRICT (6-0-0) |
Hawlucha | RESTRICT | ABSTAIN | RESTRICT | ABSTAIN | RESTRICT | RESTRICT | RESTRICT (4-2-0) |
dhelmise | Fraise | Les2BG | Senko | TTech | Results | |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Azumarill & Medicham | UNRESTRICT | UNRESTRICT | UNRESTRICT | UNRESTRICT | UNRESTRICT | UNRESTRICT (5-0-0) |
Pure Power & Huge Power | BAN | BAN | BAN | BAN | BAN | BAN (5-0-0) |
Dragapult | RESTRICT | RESTRICT | RESTRICT | RESTRICT | RESTRICT | RESTRICT (5-0-0) |
dhelmise | Fraise | Les2BG | Senko | TTech | Results | |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Volcarona | RESTRICT | RESTRICT | RESTRICT | has not yet voted | RESTRICT | RESTRICT(4-0-1) |
Raging Bolt | Do not Restrict | Do not restrict | RESTRICT | has not yet voted | Do not restrict | Do not Restrict(1-3-1) |
Pokemon in this meta that are broken as receivers are added to the restricted list, aka the list of "Gods"; a Pokemon is only full banned when it's overwhelming as both a receiver and a God.Hi. I'm quite new to the metagame and was wondering how mons like Crawdaunt, Smeargle and Hawlucha (among a couple others) became Gods when their stats don't really fit the bill?
That makes a lot of sense. Good to know even if they are pretty much doomed to uselessness.Pokemon in this meta that are broken as receivers are added to the restricted list, aka the list of "Gods"; a Pokemon is only full banned when it's overwhelming as both a receiver and a God.
i'm personally tired of these "other players" that keep getting brought up in suspect discussions. make them post. at least name them.
anyway, a 4-2 record in ompl doesn't show an "insane winrate [and] consistency" but lets go through them
but first a bit of (very subjective) context. prior to ompl seemingly no mainers had learnt to use defensive cores that weren't just the following three groups of mons rotated around:
hp rotom, def/spdef alo
hp skarm, hp/def gholdengo
hp/def lando, spdef tusk, spdef tinglu
these cores are predictably destroyed by nearly every good breaker under the sun, so predictably we saw webs week 1. this game showed off kyu pretty well i think. poor speed donation from kyub meant the team was reliant on webs to win and ultimately it folded to scarf landorus-i and tera dark darkrai - two fast options that ignored the speed drop. this almost happened again in the other w1 game but unsurprisingly the kyurem team won against the team with 4 ice weaks and an overreliance on non-uturn quaquaval; a mon that shares answers with alomomola, something every kyu/bax/weavile team preps for. nothing about this game shows kyurem being broken, it was just a prep diff. later in w3 there was another webs game where the sticky web fish worked out better.
speeding up because this is already getting too wordy.
w2. remember what i said before? alo/tusk is prone to giving up momentum and has very little outplay capability. this replay is more of an example of tera being stupid; jrdn had a better tera so he won. imagine if kyogre clicked tera fairy on scale shot. or volcanion clicked tera ground on fusion bolt. "tera mon has no counterplay except tera mon" is just an accepted part of godly gift this gen and i can't see it as a reason to ban kyu without banning literally over 20 other mons.
w3. tera moment, kyu lost.
also jrdn lost. the team had nothing for kyu (or bax) except a ditto and a calyrex-ice, and the latter could've saved the game but it got sacked to preserve an urshifu that ended up being sacrificed to kyu-b anyway. speed slot bax would have done the same thing. pao would have done the same thing. honestly opposing caly-i also could've done the same thing albeit with marginally more effort.
kyu-b is better than pao, bax, weavile and caly-i individually, but every kyu-b game shows off the limitations it has in the builder. zacian-c in comparison has a 30% usage rate because instead of 1 absurd threat you get two; zacian/bax have a 2-1 win record right now and those teams execute a very similar gameplan with far more consistency (the 1 loss was def slot bax).
final note: can someone explain why people are pretending ho-oh is good for the second gen in a row? why's it s rank on the vr.
i put subjective in brackets for a reason; i think it was just lazy building and a desperate cling to fat in a tier where that isn't necessarily the best playstyle. like you said later, offense is king right now, and that's precisely why i dont think kyub is worth banning; bax, iron hands, pao, rmoon, etern etc. are far more significant reasons for this, and more than any of these we have tera amplifying everything offensively. darkrai shouldn't even be able to ct webs like that but tera lets you run boots while still having damage output comparable to specs."but first a bit of (very subjective) context. prior to ompl seemingly no mainers had learnt to use defensive cores that weren't just the following three groups of mons rotated around"
- it might because the metagame is so centralized against broken threats that you have to use some of these guys to not instantly lose when making a defensive core
yes, i can say that about almost any sweeper in the game which is why tera needs to go. i wasn't very clear in my previous post and was responding to points you didnt make, but kyub is *very* reliant on tera to get past a significant number of our bulkier mons between rotom/dirge/garg/hatt/basically anything tbh and "it just uses tera to beat everything" can likewise be applied to almost every [good] offensive threat in the tier.the example where you give if kyogre had tera fairied or volcanion had tera grounded is such a dumb argument, you can say that about almost any sweeper in the game, the fact that we have to resort to that to stop kyu-b is the issue.
Alright, what's a superior core that handles Kyu-B comps without requiring saccs or tera? Genuinely curious what would work better (if anything).but first a bit of (very subjective) context. prior to ompl seemingly no mainers had learnt to use defensive cores that weren't just the following three groups of mons rotated around:
hp rotom, def/spdef alo
hp skarm, hp/def gholdengo
hp/def lando, spdef tusk, spdef tinglu
these cores are predictably destroyed by nearly every good breaker under the sun
the point i am trying to make is that the only tiime kyu-b loses is when it gets out offensed, it is terrible to fit checks to it on any type of bulky structure which really hurts the metagame diversity and makes me feel like i have to use one of kyu-b, zac-c, etern, or arc without committing to some type of full stall.
we can ban kyub but offense will still be the best playstyle because kyub isnt even the best breaker when you consider just how much easier it is to build with zacian-c in particular.
i put subjective in brackets for a reason; i think it was just lazy building and a desperate cling to fat in a tier where that isn't necessarily the best playstyle. like you said later, offense is king right now, and that's precisely why i dont think kyub is worth banning; bax, iron hands, pao, rmoon, etern etc. are far more significant reasons for this, and more than any of these we have tera amplifying everything offensively. darkrai shouldn't even be able to ct webs like that but tera lets you run boots while still having damage output comparable to specs.
yes, i can say that about almost any sweeper in the game which is why tera needs to go. i wasn't very clear in my previous post and was responding to points you didnt make, but kyub is *very* reliant on tera to get past a significant number of our bulkier mons between rotom/dirge/garg/hatt/basically anything tbh and "it just uses tera to beat everything" can likewise be applied to almost every [good] offensive threat in the tier.
re: the dnite game... i didnt want to say it but jrdns team just wasn't good. urshifu was the only pokemon capable of winning games there and lokix/ditto isnt sufficient counterplay for offensive threats (especially boots, that shit needs cb) unless you have a way to win before you run out of sacks and jrdns team didnt. i do not think this shows kyub being hard to handle in builder i think that jrdns team just wasn't well thought out.
"kyu-b is way way better than caly-i"
calyi has the best stat donations of any god in the tier. yes it's easier to trade with/out offense but it's still putting a similar level of stress on you in builder imo because you're outpacing a chunk of the mons balance wants to use and can trade with absolutely anything if you want to commit. chien/bax are more relevant though so id like input on those.
we can ban kyub but offense will still be the best playstyle because kyub isnt even the best breaker when you consider just how much easier it is to build with zacian-c in particular.
if you dont run stall you'll still be limited to etern/zac/arc/caly-i/some ho cheese like deo bc abusing setup sweepers with tera like sd iron hands is far and away the best playstyle and despite what some discord users think, having unaware not be ignored by teravolt isn't going to help with that.
Because we want to give the community a choice over certain pokemons and we thought it would be better to do that. We could have voted for ban KB and he would have been banned, but that's just not what we wanted to do. (But yes, I also think it's incredibly broken)Kyu-B should be banned no way around it, its stupidly broken all you have to do is watch its insane winrate in OMPL and consistency. Not even really sure why this is a suspect test the council should have just banned it straight up. Most of the other GG players I have talked to that are playing in OMPL agree with my sentiment although feel free to challenge me if you disagree.
It's been 3 months since we updated it so we'll probably do it soon, but we shouldn't be surprised that not everything describes the meta perfectly given that VR has been out for a long timefinal note: can someone explain why people are pretending ho-oh is good for the second gen in a row? why's it s rank on the vr.
true !kyu-b is way way better than caly-i
true ! it looks like the majority agree on thatKyu-b is broken as shit.
At least Career and pdt + Fraise and me are the first names I can think of and we could ask some good players in the tier the majority would agree with that without too much suspense I think, it would be more up to you to show who agrees with you.i'm personally tired of these "other players" that keep getting brought up in suspect discussions.
We're thinking about the tera, but there'll probably be no action on it until at least the end of the OMPLQuick post cus I don't have my thoughts fully cut out yet - but I'm going to go ahead and say that I agree in the current climate Kyurem-Black is incredibly stupid, but is one of many things that has been driven to be incredibly stupid in part due to what? Tera! While it's probable that kyurem would have still been stupid without a tera ban we've already seen time and time again that whenever Tera is a sticking point in the community - and yes, I think most will agree at the very least that terastalisation is controversial - that should be the first to be suspected. I sincerely hope therefore that Tera will at least be addressed by the council in these upcoming "changes" in some form, whether it be a QB, a suspect, or at least a survey.
dhelmise | Fraise | Les2BG | TTech | Results | |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
Ogerpon-Wellspring | Do Not Restrict | Do Not Restrict | Restrict | Do Not Restrict | Do Not Restrict (1-3-0) |
Chien-Pao | Restrict | Restrict | Restrict | Restrict | Restrict (4-0-0) |
Baxcalibur | Restrict | Restrict | Restrict | Restrict | Restrict (4-0-0) |
Sneasler | Do Not Restrict | Do Not Restrict | Restrict | Do Not Restrict | Do Not Restrict (1-3-0) |
Spectrier | Restrict | Abstain | Restrict | Do Not Restrict | Do Not Restrict (2-1-1) |
Zacian-Crowned | Ban | Ban | Ban | Ban | Ban (4-0-0) |
Maybe I'm just flat wrong on this but since Fraise abstained on this vote, surely the majority is in the favour of restricting Spectrier?Do Not Restrict (2-1-1)