Gods and Followers

Mq

It's Megaqwer's Time!
yeah, but i mean, with a typed hit, that means god pokemon like dialga naturally would have an advantage. something that a typeless version wouldn't give.
How?The affect of it will start after the god aka Dialga( in this case) dies.And yeah it should not be typed as steel mons resist both dooms desire and future sight
 
Last edited:
How?The affect of it will start after the god aka Dialga( in this case) dies
I think he meant that Dialga is a Steel type. If the "Future Sight" is typed, the Steel types of Dialga's followers would be able to take most of the typed punishment because Steel have so many resistances, It's unfair compared to, say, Arceus because Normal types lack resistances to be able to take the punishment.

Here's something I thought of: Torment. It's another uncommon status effect that's flavorful to the theme of the OM, but it might be more fair than Curse? It's still a definite punishment (which is what I'd prefer), but it just forces you to play a different way rather than just cause you to die faster. Yes, it discourages choice users, but it's something to consider.
I actually... don't like Torment. It's still too gamechanging for both playstyles. Any bulky pokes got eleminated by not being able to spam Recover and not being able to sweep with offense is just... bad as usually pokes have one single STAB move to spam. And as you said, Offense discourages Choice items.

How about Embargo? Most pokes can still perform without items. They just lose additional power, bulk or lefties recovery. Plus, Embargo only last 5 turns and it won't affect Mega Stones, so your megas is safe. It's less punishing I think.

%Lcass4919:or every 3rd turn "doom desire" takes effect.
I'm not kidding this is genius. Make it of your own god's type (dual typed if possible) and of 140 power off max invested 100 spa.
This is also not a bad idea I think. Make it typeless and it should be okay.
 
I'm honestly not a fan of the Doom Desire idea. It's thematically neat and has a little more counterplay over Curse...but if it's typed, it creates a lot of problems. If it's not typed, that's still an extra layer of complication on an already complicated OM. Plus, it arbitrarily values Special walls.

Embargo is something I also considered, so I'm not entirely opposed. It's a little soft, but I could see it working.

Here's something to consider: we don't necessarily need a negative punishment. A team that defeats a god can get some sort of positive buff, like restoring status/PP/knocked off items for the team or allowing the team to bypass accuracy checks. Other ideas on that front?
 

Mq

It's Megaqwer's Time!
can we have punishments as gods?Dialga's team get taunt status,Xerneas's team gets Embargo and so on
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
I'm honestly not a fan of the Doom Desire idea. It's thematically neat and has a little more counterplay over Curse...but if it's typed, it creates a lot of problems. If it's not typed, that's still an extra layer of complication on an already complicated OM. Plus, it arbitrarily values Special walls.

Embargo is something I also considered, so I'm not entirely opposed. It's a little soft, but I could see it working.

Here's something to consider: we don't necessarily need a negative punishment. A team that defeats a god can get some sort of positive buff, like restoring status/PP/knocked off items for the team or allowing the team to bypass accuracy checks. Other ideas on that front?
perhaps a positive buff is good, but it shouldn't be something TOO crazy. because dont forget that the god gets the buff too. maybe even make the "punishment" related to the god, something like, your god gets a "lunar dance" effect(hp recovered, pp recovered, status removed). so rather then the party getting the boost, you instead have to deal with the god at full power again. this doesn't immediately cause your opponents loss, all while still giving them a "last ditch effort". and if your god is dead when your opponents dies, maybe just give it to the "Lowest hp mon" if possible to code. this also pressures you to use your god more "Risky" because if you keep it in reserve, killing their god gives you a negligible buff. and if its not possible, even making it the "highest BST mon in your team" could work. idk.
 
perhaps a positive buff is good, but it shouldn't be something TOO crazy. because dont forget that the god gets the buff too. maybe even make the "punishment" related to the god, something like, your god gets a "lunar dance" effect(hp recovered, pp recovered, status removed). so rather then the party getting the boost, you instead have to deal with the god at full power again. this doesn't immediately cause your opponents loss, all while still giving them a "last ditch effort". and if your god is dead when your opponents dies, maybe just give it to the "Lowest hp mon" if possible to code. this also pressures you to use your god more "Risky" because if you keep it in reserve, killing their god gives you a negligible buff. and if its not possible, even making it the "highest BST mon in your team" could work. idk.
On a similar note to your idea, I think it would be fun if fainting the opposing god healed the whole opposing team - like an individual lunar dance for each party member. I think this would be a fun mechanic that doesn't necessarily hinder either team in a meaningful way when their God faints.
It also kinda makes sense, when the 'God' dies he gives his remaining power to all his minions to continue the fight at full strength before ultimately vanishing.
It could lead to some neat strategies and would be great for all playstyles to take advantage of (i think).

What do you guys think? It would certainly be one of the less complicated compromises anyway.
 
perhaps a positive buff is good, but it shouldn't be something TOO crazy. because dont forget that the god gets the buff too. maybe even make the "punishment" related to the god, something like, your god gets a "lunar dance" effect(hp recovered, pp recovered, status removed). so rather then the party getting the boost, you instead have to deal with the god at full power again. this doesn't immediately cause your opponents loss, all while still giving them a "last ditch effort". and if your god is dead when your opponents dies, maybe just give it to the "Lowest hp mon" if possible to code. this also pressures you to use your god more "Risky" because if you keep it in reserve, killing their god gives you a negligible buff. and if its not possible, even making it the "highest BST mon in your team" could work. idk.
A drive-by suggestion from someone who enjoys following this thread but hasn't played the metagame itself - what if, at the end of the turn that the 'God' faints, the effect of Healing Wish or Lunar Dance is applied to whichever Pokemon on the opposing team is on the field at the end of that turn? This opens up all sorts of fun possibilities for manipulating the effect - if you want to make the most of the buff, you don't just need to KO the opposing 'God', you need to manoeuvre the correct Pokemon into play on the turn that it happens; it's also possible to employ a degree of counterplay against it, for example making sure that your 'God' is KO'd by status damage or recoil on the same turn that it KO's an opponent. It's a very real benefit, but not one that can be taken advantage of on auto-pilot. As I said at the beginning, I don't personally play the metagame, so I have no investment in the particular decision that gets made, I just thought I'd leave this as a suggestion in case those who do play the meta see value in it.
 

Mq

It's Megaqwer's Time!
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/aqua-godsandfollowers-1979 its not a good time for this but jajoken your team is weak to scarf yveltal and hoopa -U
And here's my Updated Team as Hoopa -U and yveltal (Scarf) also outclass my team as well:/ http://pastebin.com/1DyEmCG5

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/aqua-godsandfollowers-1980
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/aqua-godsandfollowers-1979
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/aqua-godsandfollowers-1978

Angry1's Team replays

The Immortal says: Use the edit button

And how about a tier like Gods and Followers but the only difference will be that NFE mons and LC ubers will be god and Lc as followers?LC mons will be level 100 same as NFE..And also you can use mons like haunter which has a preevo and a evo as gods.You can baton pass stats followers to followers but not followers to god

http://pastebin.com/JYCX6bnp 1 sample team if you all like
 
Last edited:
For people voting for OMotM -- I'd again like to remind people that the description in the thread is wrong: please read the OP before voting.

The council is moving forward on the punishment decision in PM. I'll announce the decision when we reach it.
I'll also be updating the OP with replays/etc soon.
 
Quick announcements: I've talked with xfix and the code is apparently now fixed but Aqua hasn't been updated with the new version. The main server would run with the correct banlist should this win OMotM. Also on that note, I'm going to shelve the discussion on a punishment change for a month. It doesn't make sense to change an OM people have already voted on, so Curse will remain as the punishment unless this doesn't win OMotM, in which case we'll test out a new punishment on the Aqua version.

Thank you for all the support!

EDIT: The OP is updated. Also, 100 votes in the poll. 0_0
 
Last edited:
A couple quick questions: since shadow tag was recently banned from ou, how does the affect mega gengar as a god? Also, does the mega evolution type change work with followers (ex. can I have a mega gyarados on a darkrai team?)
 
A couple quick questions: since shadow tag was recently banned from ou, how does the affect mega gengar as a god? Also, does the mega evolution type change work with followers (ex. can I have a mega gyarados on a darkrai team?)
Shadow Tag is allowed in Ubers, and thus Mega Gengar (or any Shadow Tag Pokemon) should be allowed in the god slot. If the code has weird interactions with that clause (I haven't tested the updated version as it isn't on Aqua) and disallows Mega Gengar, then I'll just ban Gothitelle and friends rather than the ability and unban Shadow Tag, making Mega Gengar the only usable Shadow Tag user, which is fine since it can only be a god. As for your second question: yes, the final form of your Pokemon is what counts (ie: Mega Gyarados can't be used on a Ho-oh team).

EDIT: Ransei has been added to the council!
 
Last edited:

MattL

I have discovered a truly remarkable CT which this box is t-
is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Congrats on OMOTM!

In light of this, I'd like to post a team which utilizes the God in a slightly different way and explain the teambuilding in depth, which will hopefully allow us to understand more of the mechanics of the meta. Chopin also posted a Mega Rayquaza team, which is similar. The premise of Chopin's team is that Mega Rayquaza is so powerful that it can sweep with ease given the right team support. The premise of this team is that Mega Rayquaza is so powerful that it can severely dent teams in an unparalleled manner, setting up for the possible Talonflame sweep in a birdspam-esque manner. I wouldn't say one team is better than the other, but they function slightly differently. (The reason I'm saying all this is because I had already made the team, then realized that Chopin's team had 5 of the same mons, although given the same God, teams should look relatively similar. I suppose the slight lack of diversity is a fundamental aspect of this meta.)

Of course, the team is built around Mega Rayquaza, and again, the premise of this team is to allow for riskier play of the God in order to punch holes in the opponent. In a meta where most of the mons are OU, the opponent is probably going to have to sac something every time Mega Rayquaza comes in, and with that in mind, the standard fully offensive set was chosen. Don't switch this mon in; send it in and make your opponent lose a mon every time you do so. These are its best 4 moves for general wallbreaking and destruction. If you wanted to use a more sweeping set, you might be better changing up the team a little.

A natural theme among teams is Healing Wish because the status of your God is so important. Generally it's strictly for survival purposes, but on this team, Healing Wish is mainly uses to let Mega Rayquaza severely damage or take out as many Pokemon as it can. The only Pokemon which is legal on a Mega Rayquaza team that learns Healing Wish is Latias, so that's why it's here. Draco and Psyshock are obvious, and I know you're looking at Thunder Wave. The reason it's there is because I didn't want Latias to both have to Defog and use Healing Wish, as keeping rocks off is so important for this team. Also, Xerneas is a huge threat to this team. Latias is one of the best Pokemon in this team for Xerneas to set up on, so we can't have that happen.

Now the team needs Defog somewhere and Skarm is, aside from the Latis, basically the best Defogger and provides good defensive synergy (well, as good of synergy as you're gonna get in this meta). I felt that rocks were better on something else, and I need all 4 of these moves anyway. I mentioned how there's a slight birdspam-esque core so it might be strange how I have Iron Head here, but it's nice to have another answer to Fairies, and plus, even though it's not common, Rock Polish Mega Diancie actually destroys this team otherwise.

So now we need rocks. Chomp is nice because with the three that are there so far it's easy to just Volt Switch around. I wanted an offensive set because (along with its nice speed tier and the fact that I have a Skarm already) aside from Latias, Garchomp is the only mon that Xerneas can really set up on. Offensive EQ puts it in Brave Bird + Espeed range whereas Tankchomp EQ actually does nothing.

The backbone of the team is complete, so now to make some nice additions to the offensive core. The two important things to notice are that Mega Rayquaza can sometimes spam Dragon Ascent, denting Flying resists and basically everything else, and that Rock-types are much more rare in this meta. With that in mind, Talonflame is a very natural addition. Although this team is catered to Mega Rayquaza annihilating everything it also turned out to be catered to a Talonflame sweep. The set is pretty clear, then.

Even though there's a lot of priority, having speed is nice. Again, this could've been a Scarf Thundurus-T or just a regular Thundurus or something but Kyub is nice because it's easier to spam Ice Beam in this meta, and Kyub can definitely clean up the game with Ice Beam or whatever, team dependent. You might be wondering why I'm talking about Ice Beam when this is clearly a physically-based set, and that's because it's really helpful to pressure Slowbro and Fairies even more. Also, a specially-based Scarf set is not really that good.


Rayquaza-Mega @ Life Orb
Ability: Delta Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Overheat
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed

Latias (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 72 HP / 184 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Healing Wish
- Thunder Wave

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Iron Head

Garchomp @ Focus Sash
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Blast

Talonflame @ Sky Plate
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Roost
- Swords Dance

Kyurem-Black @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 32 SpA / 224 Spe
Naive Nature
- Ice Beam
- Outrage
- Fusion Bolt
- Iron Head
 
Last edited:

Mq

It's Megaqwer's Time!
Rayquaza-Mega @ Life Orb
Ability: Delta Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Overheat
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed

Latias (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 72 HP / 184 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Healing Wish
- Thunder Wave

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Iron Head

Garchomp @ Focus Sash
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Toxic

Talonflame @ Sky Plate
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Roost
- Swords Dance

Kyurem-Black @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 32 SpA / 224 Spe
Naive Nature
- Ice Beam
- Outrage
- Fusion Bolt
- Iron Head
Why is overheat on physical m ray(just remind me).I would haved given it v create

http://pastebin.com/vdzjHcMb http://pastebin.com/xukyK7EP http://pastebin.com/6GdRTx7G These are the 3 teams i made on gods which are not there in sample team and i wanted to get em in there,but i wanna make sure if there are lacking anytihng.So i ask the 'professional" that is those teams lacking anything and ty.

Gratz Ransei on Council

Why do i tihnk Jajoken you have removed replite's both team:/
 
Last edited:

Kris

ungabunga
is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Programmeris a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributor
Why is overheat on physical m ray(just remind me).I would haved given it v create

http://pastebin.com/vdzjHcMb http://pastebin.com/xukyK7EP http://pastebin.com/6GdRTx7G These are the 3 teams i made on gods which are not there in sample team and i wanted to get em in there,but i wanna make sure if there are lacking anytihng.So i ask the 'professional" that is those teams lacking anything and ty.

Gratz Ransei on Council

Why do i tihnk Jajoken you have removed replite's both team:/
MattL gave Mega Rayquaza Overheat instead of V-create because it was, a) a mixed set, and b) he probably didn't want the Speed, Defense, and Special Defense drops from V-create to be combined with the Defense and Special Defense drops from Dragon Ascent.

For your first team, I would probably change the Garchomp set from a Focus Sash setup sweeper set to a SubSalac bulky setup set, just because the basis of your team seems to be pretty defensively-centered.

The set I'm talking about is:
Garchomp @ Salac Berry
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 12 HP / 244 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Substitute
12 HP EVs are needed to ensure that the Salac Berry will activate after exactly three Substitutes.

Also grats on council Ransei
 
So...I made a team for this meta with Mewtwo-Mega X as the "God", but the game won't allow me to enter with a team that has fighting types. Are we only allowing it to be psychic since it's a mega evolution?
 

The Immortal

is a member of the Site Staffis a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Top Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Programmeris a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Other Metas Leader
So...I made a team for this meta with Mewtwo-Mega X as the "God", but the game won't allow me to enter with a team that has fighting types. Are we only allowing it to be psychic since it's a mega evolution?
Yes, the base form only matters. Also, unreleased Pokemon are not allowed on the ladder either. I believe these are the only two rules that I have overruled.
 
Yes, the base form only matters. Also, unreleased Pokemon are not allowed on the ladder either. I believe these are the only two rules that I have overruled.
That hasn't been the functionality until now -- Primal Groudon teams and Mega Mewtwo X teams have always been dual typed. Why was that changed?

The unreleased thing is fine, I'll just remove Volcanion and Floettte from the OP.
 

The Immortal

is a member of the Site Staffis a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Top Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Programmeris a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Other Metas Leader
That hasn't been the functionality until now -- Primal Groudon teams and Mega Mewtwo X teams have always been dual typed. Why was that changed?

The unreleased thing is fine, I'll just remove Volcanion and Floettte from the OP.
The base form is what matters in every OM that includes shared properties amongst teammates, the biggest example being Monotype.

A Pokemon can hold a Mega Stone and never evolve, for example, so it doesn't make sense for its Mega Evolution's types to matter in these concepts.
 
The base form is what matters in every OM that includes shared properties amongst teammates, the biggest example being Monotype.

A Pokemon can hold a Mega Stone and never evolve, for example, so it doesn't make sense for its Mega Evolution's types to matter in these concepts.
For the sake of consistency, I suppose that makes sense. It's still a real blow to the overall development of the OM, though. In the pre-ladder metagame, Primal Groudon and MMX were honestly pretty big factors and its a little strange to see them go. Your logic is sound, though. I'll remove the resources and information concerning that part of the code.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top