What tier would Gogoat be in? Would he be in at least UU tier?
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Pokémon Gogoat
- Thread starter Shroomisaur
- Start date
- Status
I see him as high RU with a pretty decent offensive movepool/stats and a reliable recovery move. I seem him similar to Miltank with less support options.
Sorry if I come off as rude, but if you're determined to hate Gogoat, do it somewhere else please. As far as I'm aware (and correct me if I'm wrong), but Smogon is here not to decide purely on how good a pokemon is, but to ensure every pokemon is brought to be the best it can. I'm not saying Gogoat is good, not even that it will escape NU, but wasting time arguing about weather or not its good at all is just annoying. The point is, weather or not its good overall, we have to make sure it's represented in the metagame to the maximum of its ability, and make it play to its strengths (even if it doesn't seem to have any).
Okay, rant over.
As to tiers I reckon it might make it to RU, but definitely not UU+. If it is NU, it would probably be near the top.
I'm gonna play RU just so I can use this thing. I tried it in UU but it struggles to compete (then again UU is pretty broken right now). The comparison of it to Miltank is interesting. The problem with gogoat, compared to miltank (which is actually really under-rated and should be at least RU imo) is that it has awful stat distribution. 530 base is great, but have almost 100 of them dedicated to a shallow at best special movepool is a real waste. In comparison, Miltank has 40 special attack (though ironically it has the special movepool that could use 97 base) and instead had a bit more speed and bulk. On top of his poor speed, gogoat doesn't have a usable priority move, making him prone to revenge killing even after he sets up.
The only thing that gogoat has over miltank is the fact that it can hit slightly harder offensively and that it get's a better set up move. In fact, I think bulk up is gogoat's only viable set. The set in the OP is pretty good. I don't think milk drink can be sacrificed for substitute, milk drink set's gogoat apart from other set up sweepers. BUT gogoat hates burn, so he needs support from a fire type, both to cover weaknesses and burn. Rotom-H is a great partner in UU. I don't know, I really want to use gogoat, but it's not gonna be viable in any tier above ru sadly. :(
The only thing that gogoat has over miltank is the fact that it can hit slightly harder offensively and that it get's a better set up move. In fact, I think bulk up is gogoat's only viable set. The set in the OP is pretty good. I don't think milk drink can be sacrificed for substitute, milk drink set's gogoat apart from other set up sweepers. BUT gogoat hates burn, so he needs support from a fire type, both to cover weaknesses and burn. Rotom-H is a great partner in UU. I don't know, I really want to use gogoat, but it's not gonna be viable in any tier above ru sadly. :(
I'm wanting to run the OP's first suggestion...for refresher:
Fortified Milk
Gogoat @ Leftovers
Ability: Sap-Sipper
Nature: Careful
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpDef / 4 Def
- Horn Leech / Leaf Blade
- Rock Slide / Earthquake / Payback
- Bulk Up
- Substitute / Milk Drink
But I'm wondering if the EV spread isn't packing enough power even after a Bulk Up to be a threat. You have to be very selective about what you switch in on. I think I want to try it with Substitute first to see just how strong Gogoat's defenses really are. Does anyone have any calcs on damage given by Gogoat with this suggested EV spread after X amount of Bulk Ups?
Fortified Milk
Gogoat @ Leftovers
Ability: Sap-Sipper
Nature: Careful
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpDef / 4 Def
- Horn Leech / Leaf Blade
- Rock Slide / Earthquake / Payback
- Bulk Up
- Substitute / Milk Drink
But I'm wondering if the EV spread isn't packing enough power even after a Bulk Up to be a threat. You have to be very selective about what you switch in on. I think I want to try it with Substitute first to see just how strong Gogoat's defenses really are. Does anyone have any calcs on damage given by Gogoat with this suggested EV spread after X amount of Bulk Ups?
Gogoat + horn leech + leftovers + milk drink + max HP = One hell of a wall.
Personally Milk drink + horn leech is an absolute must. It really helps to being a good offensive staller
Personally Milk drink + horn leech is an absolute must. It really helps to being a good offensive staller
I've tried using Gogoat, and it always seems like Burn bait. How do you deal with that in general?
I can attest to this as I have used the bulk up set of the milk drink variant and positively love it. He has enough bulk to live non stabbed super effective attacks easy, and after a bulk up (or two, its been a bit since I used him in an ou match) he can live a Talonflame attack and retaliate with rock slide. I only wish I was a doubles player so I could take this set with Grassy terrain as that seems very very tempting.
Hmm. Does go goat learn any status healing moves? If not, maybe replace the leftovers with lum berry, then switch into a fire type
I think Gogoat might also scrape a niche over Miltank with its typing. Even though it gives major problems with fire, bug and ice, grass type lets Gogoat tank some of the best RU offensive types, such as electric, ground and the almighty fighting type (which is one of Miltank's most prominent flaws). However, I agree that any form of major offense with Gogoat ought to incorporate BU. A leech seed set is probably viable, but is outclassed by ferroseed, who boasts a steel typing and entry hazard access. A pivot set faces similar competition from Amoonguss, who has spore. I think any offensive set would be best with BU, and defensive sets might do best to use Gogoats niches, namely Milk Drink, Horn leech and a good HP stat.
Still, if anyone can find any way to incorporate some of the weird coverage moves (eg. wild charge, aerial ace, surf, brick break, etc) in a good way, please share.
Has anyone actually tried making use of Grass Pelt in their team? I feel like that ability could be so strong, giving basically a bulk-up (considering the 50% bonus on grass attacks) before Gogoat even enters the field, giving him room to get more bulk ups before the effect ends. That combined with already great special defense and loads of inbuilt healing and I feel like he has an okay shot at being a sweeper... then I remember it lasts 5 turns and heals your opponent, and wastes a turn switching. I just wish Grassy Terrain had some more users or perhaps a more impressive effect. :(
Gogoat is like the bastard bastard child of Sawsbuck and Miltank.
Anyways I do think Gogoat is one of the better pokemon of Gen VI even though it has low speed. Personally, I like Sawsbuck more offensively (which is fair) but feel Gogoat will definitely be my bulky or defensive hooved-poke. Definitely RU for the Grass vaporeon.
*side note* I still find it sad that Sawsbuck dropped from UU to NU by the end of 5th Gen. I hope it makes a resurgance to at least RU.
RU I believe
Please post questions like these in the Simple Questions, Simple Answers thread. You can refer to this thread for your tiering questions.
Hey,how about gogoat with assault vest?with careful nature and max.invest on his special def?what do you think?
Gogoat@Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 Def, 252 Hp, 4Atk
Nature: Adamant(though my has Brave cuz I was lazy during breeding)
Moves:
Horn Leech
Aerial Ace
Bulk Up
Rock Slide
So I bring in Gogoat, use Bulk Up once and then tanks damage and gets it back using Horn Leech. Rock Slide covers most of Gogoats weaknesses and can be used to hit things like Talonflame coming in on you. A Bulk Up Rock Slide from my Brave Gogoat actually OHKOed a Tflame on the switch-in. Aerial Ace is so you dont get walled by Grasses or Sap Sipper mons.
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 Def, 252 Hp, 4Atk
Nature: Adamant(though my has Brave cuz I was lazy during breeding)
Moves:
Horn Leech
Aerial Ace
Bulk Up
Rock Slide
So I bring in Gogoat, use Bulk Up once and then tanks damage and gets it back using Horn Leech. Rock Slide covers most of Gogoats weaknesses and can be used to hit things like Talonflame coming in on you. A Bulk Up Rock Slide from my Brave Gogoat actually OHKOed a Tflame on the switch-in. Aerial Ace is so you dont get walled by Grasses or Sap Sipper mons.
Because a +1 rock slide from most Pokemon fails to KO Talonflame.
Anyway, you've got inefficient EVing. You want to put EVs into your nature boosted stat- either opt for something along the lines of some amount of defense EVs --> attack EVs + an impish nature or a more offensively EVed Gogoat.
That being said, has anyone tested out some of Gogoat's other options? Two that stand out to me are a hazard abuser set with Bulk Up + Roar, able to set up while keeping phazers out and problem mons away. However, assuming Milk Drink, this would leave you with a Mono-attacking set, which is probably sub par.
The other option that jumps out to me is an offensive set with Growth, which would give Gogoat the ability to use some of his special options like Surf. I looked at something along the lines of Growth + Synthesis + Solar Beam + HP Fire for use with sun support, but there are honestly better Pokemon (sawsbuck, Victreebel, Shiftree) to pull this off. Gogoat does have some bulk advantage, but not having chlorophyll makes him not very viable in this niche.
Any other options people see? Moving away from OU for a moment, A support set with Roar/Leech Seed/Milk Drink/Attack and defensive EVing (probably phys def- Most special attackers run Fire/Ice coverage. Gogoats resists are Ground and Electric, and the only thing to run ground as a special attack in the lower tiers is Nidoqueen, and she has STAB Sludge Wave to annihilate our goaty friend. Electric types, like electivire and Eelektross, often carry flamethrower for coverage, making Gogoat a shaky check. On the physical side, his weakness to Bug + his lower defensive stat are unfortunate (and his weakness to flying) but he can switch in to dangerous pokemon in the lower tiers like Sawk and Zangoose with full phys def EVing (actually I'll have to run calcs on that)).
Yeah... other thoughts?
Gogoat isn't anywhere close to being viable in OU. There are no niches for it to fill and is outclassed by many other Pokemon. This thread has served its purpose and is no longer of any use. I'm closing this now.
- Status