Pokémon Greninja

[dkkc19]

Switched my Greninja into a physical one, using Life Orb, Shadow Sneak, Waterfall, U-Turn and Night Slash.
For once, it's great to see Greninja's U-Turn doing some decent damage, unlike special Greninja's U-Turn.

The damage output is noticeable, Hydro Pump/Surf/Scald and Dark Pulse hit harder than Waterfall and Night Slash. And it loses its ability to hit Water, Fighting, Grass, Poison and Dragon by losing Grass Knot, Ice Beam and Extrasensory, so coverage wise special Greninja is superior. Physical Greninja hits Bugs and Ice with Rockslide, which is not really useful, but thanks to Rockslide it can 1hko Charizard Y, which Greninja can't do with Surf or Hydro Pump. And Rock Slide allows it to 2hko Charizard X, which can't be done with Waterfall.

So in general, special Greninja hits harder and has a superior coverage and in total is better to use. Though the good thing about physical Greninja that it catches people by surprise.

 

[Jaroda]

0- Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 442-530 (148.3 - 177.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

You don't have to be a physical variant to handle CharY, if your team really needs something for him, even though I'd recommend better. But I'd say Hydro Pump and Ice Beam are the only mandatory moves for Greninja. STAB Ice with his speed it too good to pass up.

 

[dkkc19]

What about Dark Pulse? It's very spamable unlike Ice Beam or Hydro Pump?

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

Extrasensory > Dark Pulse most of the time IMO, allowing you to beat Conkeldurr and Mega Venusaur, then again Dark Pulse beats Aegislash (with a bit of prior damage) which is no small feat (sacred sword will ohko you though so using hydro pump first might still be the best option).

 

[muramusaw8]

Extrasensory > Dark Pulse most of the time IMO, allowing you to beat Conkeldurr and Mega Venusaur, then again Dark Pulse beats Aegislash (with a bit of prior damage) which is no small feat (sacred sword will ohko you though so using hydro pump first might still be the best option).

I'm pretty sure that Aegislash, upon living the Hydro Pump, would destroy the amphibious ninja with a Shadow Ball. Unless victory is directly assured by crippling Aegislash, Greninja should probably U-turn or switch out of a healthy Aegislash.

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

I'm pretty sure that Aegislash, upon living the Hydro Pump, would destroy the amphibious ninja with a Shadow Ball. Unless victory is directly assured by crippling Aegislash, Greninja should probably U-turn or switch out of a healthy Aegislash.

I meant if Aegislash switches in for whatever reason, if somehow a healthy Aegislash ends up being in against Greninja its best play would probably be Sacred Sword, unless he scouted the Greninja to not have Dark Pulse as a resisted shadowball won't even 2hko Greninja and a neutral one won't ohko (it will kill combined with shadow sneak though) and Dark Pulse is the best move Greninja could use (outside of maybe popping weakness policy).

Either way the point is both Extrasensory and Dark Pulse are valid options, hitting different threats. You choose between the two depending on what your team has trouble with, even running both is a valid option when you're not in need of HP Fire/Grass and don't care for U-Turn (momentum is cool but U-Turn + Life Orb can wear you down quickly).

 

[aVocado]

Extrasensory > Dark Pulse most of the time IMO, allowing you to beat Conkeldurr and Mega Venusaur, then again Dark Pulse beats Aegislash (with a bit of prior damage) which is no small feat (sacred sword will ohko you though so using hydro pump first might still be the best option).

Hydro Pump/Ice Beam/Dark Pulse/Extrasensory

No need to give up Dark Pulse.. and Grass Knot (or HP Grass) can be used I guess.

 

[BlueDryBones1]

I'm currently breeding a new Greninja and I'm wondering if breeding HP Grass is worth it. I like that it hits Rotom-W harder than Grass Knot but any other uses/things it hits harder? Or is another Hidden Power a better option?

Don't know whether I'll use it or not but I just like the option.

If I breed HP Grass I'm going for 31/31/30/30/31/31 Hasty, it'll be Hasty regardless of Hidden Power as said previously I like when I can get a lot of variety in what a Pokémon can do.

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

HP Electric pretty much only hits Gyarados though HP Grass hits Rotom-W, Quagsire, Gastrodon, Swampert and Lanturn (the last three aren't super relevant but still) all other water types are hit by both except Tentacruel who is hit harder by Extrasensory anyway and not overly relevant.

 

[ArashiTheRainDancer]

Anyone have any ideas on using Spikes in combination with Shadow Sneak? Yes, a Spiker AND a spinblocker as the same thing.

 

[S0L1D G0LD]

Anyone have any ideas on using Spikes in combination with Shadow Sneak? Yes, a Spiker AND a spinblocker as the same thing.

Shadow Sneak isn't viable on greninja, as it is better to just hit something for se damage then block an attack, and hazards aren't as viable on greninja as other mons, or as greninja's attacking set.

 

[Arca10]

Anyone have any ideas on using Spikes in combination with Shadow Sneak? Yes, a Spiker AND a spinblocker as the same thing.

Shadow Sneak isn't viable on greninja, as it is better to just hit something for se damage then block an attack, and hazards aren't as viable on greninja as other mons, or as greninja's attacking set.

Also, the only relevant spinner in OU is Excadrill, who wouldn't be switching into Greninja anyways. Well, Starmie maybe, but Greninja would rather just OHKO with Dark Pulse.

 

[Magicfire]

Also, the only relevant spinner in OU is Excadrill, who wouldn't be switching into Greninja anyways. Well, Starmie maybe, but Greninja would rather just OHKO with Dark Pulse.

Mega Blastoise as well.

 

[MAMP]

I'm currently breeding a new Greninja and I'm wondering if breeding HP Grass is worth it. I like that it hits Rotom-W harder than Grass Knot but any other uses/things it hits harder? Or is another Hidden Power a better option?

Don't know whether I'll use it or not but I just like the option.

If I breed HP Grass I'm going for 31/31/30/30/31/31 Hasty, it'll be Hasty regardless of Hidden Power as said previously I like when I can get a lot of variety in what a Pokémon can do.

if you want a Hidden Power, I'd recommend HP Fire, which lets Greninja beat Ferrothorn, which gives it issues otherwise.

 

[happy-emo]

Physical Greninja is terrible and you should feel terrible.

It should never, ever be used.

I've never used it myself, but I've seen people use it perfectly and it can destroy pokemon that aren't ready.

 

[aVocado]

I've never used it myself, but I've seen people use it perfectly and it can destroy pokemon that aren't ready.

it can't destroy shit lol

 

[happy-emo]

it can't destroy shit lol

Destroy may be too strong a word, but it can definitely put in some work.

 

[ArashiTheRainDancer]

Destroy may be too strong a word, but it can definitely put in some work.

I love how people say it is bad. It really isnt. That attack is only ten base stat points shorter than its special attack, and it gets pretty good physical moves, including Rock Slide, Night Slash, Waterfall and even the slightly unorthodox Power Up Punch, which, in my opinion, can be key to a massive sweep.

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

if you want a Hidden Power, I'd recommend HP Fire, which lets Greninja beat Ferrothorn, which gives it issues otherwise.

It depends what you wanna hit, HP Grass beats Rotom-W and bulky waters (although most take more damage from Grass Knot).

I love how people say it is bad. It really isnt. That attack is only ten base stat points shorter than its special attack, and it gets pretty good physical moves, including Rock Slide, Night Slash, Waterfall and even the slightly unorthodox Power Up Punch, which, in my opinion, can be key to a massive sweep.

It really is, sure your attack isn't THAT much lower but your moves are weaker too and Greninja already needs a LO as it doesn't hit hard enough without.

Rock Slide doesn't have many targets that Ice Beam doesn't hit harder and the few targets it does have (ZardY, Talonflame, Volcarona, ZardX are OHKOd or 2HKOd by Rock Slide without investment anyway.

Power up Punch is far to weak and physical Greninja isn't all that threatening at +1 anyway.

Night Slash and Waterfall are inferior to Hydro Pump and Dark Pulse and the only move that would actually be better on the physical set is U-Turn.

Short of it getting stuff like the elemental punches from tutors in the future I don't see Physical Greninja ever being viable amongst non-hipsters.

 

[Anty]

It depends what you wanna hit, HP Grass beats Rotom-W and bulky waters (although most take more damage from Grass Knot).

Rotom-w only takes 40bp from grass knot, but most of the time hp fire is better (also comes with a grass resistance)

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

Rotom-w only takes 40bp from grass knot, but most of the time hp fire is better (also comes with a grass resistance)

And its 2HKOd by HP grass and cannot touch Grass Greninja, did you even read what I wrote?

 

[Anty]

And its 2HKOd by HP grass and cannot touch Grass Greninja, did you even read what I wrote?

yes.... until you edited it

 

[aVocado]

Rotom-w only takes 40bp from grass knot, but most of the time hp fire is better (also comes with a grass resistance)

It's actually 10 bp. Grass Knot/Low Kick are 10 bp against Rotom-w.

 

[dkkc19]

I love how people say it is bad. It really isnt. That attack is only ten base stat points shorter than its special attack, and it gets pretty good physical moves, including Rock Slide, Night Slash, Waterfall and even the slightly unorthodox Power Up Punch, which, in my opinion, can be key to a massive sweep.

And it gets 2 priorities. I use my physical Greninja to hit U-turns in mid game and keep the momentum and clean up the game towards the end.

 

[dkkc19]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-108881520

Far from being shit.