GSC In-Game Tier List Mark V

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Ok, we're getting close to the endgame now. No pictures for now because I'm on my phone.

Radio Tower and Underground Rival

Radio Tower and Underground Rival damn near put me to sleep. Man talking crazy stuff like "I've assembled the toughest team" with a Rage and Water Gun Feraligatr.

A sweep is possible because even though it yakes a lot of damage and it barely survives with like, 5-10HP, Gengar 2HKOs Golbat, Sneasel and Gatr, and OHKOs Haunter and Magnemite.

So basically, it takes 3 super-effective hits but it survives.

The Radio Tower's Rocket Executive with a Houndoom stops Gengar cold.

Lv. 35 Gengar deals like, 40ish % while taking 80% from Faint Attack.

Went through the Ice Path and straight to Clair, because like I said, no detours.

The route between Blackthorn and New Bark is a pain to navigate and as far as I remember, it doesn't have anything worth mentioning except trainers. I can fly to both cities, so there's little reason for me to go down that road except for grinding.

Vs. Clair (Lv. 36 - No grind)

The whole team is at Lv. 36 flat.
Gengar is holding Nevermeltice.

That's not a bad performance for Gengar. It is a good enabler due to it being able to almost OHKO the Dragonairs on a range.
Ironically, on my first attempt, it OHKOd the first Dragonairs, and froze the 2nd and 3rd ones with Ice Punch.

That allowed me to test if it could complete the sweep against Kingdra.

NMI Ice Punch 4HKOs it, and Surf does 70% back in return. Clair also has a Hyper Potion. It's just not breaking it even if I level up a bit to knock it down to a 3HKO because Surf does too much damage.

Shadow Ball does even worse.

Now, beating the Dragonairs is nice and all because something else can come in and deal with Kingdra, but that's not amazing since you can achieve similar success

So, to summarize, Gengar folds to Kingdra pretty bad at Lv. 36.

I can beat it 1v1 with the Hitmonlee (Also Lv. 36) I got in this save. HJK is a clean 2HKO so I'm not stuck at all. It's really just Gengar not being able to call iso on Kingdra.

I got two Rare Candies, so I can test it at Lv. 38 real quick later, but so far, I'll have to call a solid A on theis battle. An enabler and nothing more.


Edit: A Story in three acts

This mon is GSC Electivire.

It feels great to click a bunch of punches and watch the Super-Effective screen pop-up, but when it really counts, it doesn't have what it takes to muscle through.

The difference between say, Gengar and Alakazam in situations like these is that Zam would 2HKO this with STAB Psychic. Even if Zam took a massive hit like Gengar did, it would be fine because it wouldn't have been OHKOd and it's faster than pretty much anything in the game.

Gengar does not have any way to boost its output besides type-boosting items, and I am using Nevermeltice right now. There's no way it can 2HKO Kingdra, so it will always lose to it. GSC Matchups are heavily skewed towards the endgame, as only Miltank is an actually challenging fight in this game. (One could argue Chuck's Poliwrath can be tough due to it having STAB Surf, but Gengar needed extra levels to beat it too).

Unless Gengar can pack up Lance's Dragonites with the greatest of ease, this is nowhere near an S-Ranked mon post-evolution.

The E4 has 2 horrible matchups on type alone. Will can absolutely OHKO Gengar with Psychic, and I really doubt a Slowbro can be OHKO'd easily. Karen will also put this mon in a torture rack.

This mon has no business being anywhere near A-Rank folding to the big battles like this.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Elite Four + Lance

Whole team at 39.

Vs. Will (Lv .39)

Gengar was holding Nevermeltice in this battle.
Will just DESTROYS Gengar. Anything that it can't OHKO will bake it with Psychic.

Extra levels do NOT matter.


Vs. Koga (Lv. 39)

It's a sad, sad, sight to see Venomoth breaking your ankles. It's not a frequent one though, so that's fine. Basically, Ariados needs to Double Team on T1, dodge the next hit, Baton Pass to Moth, and Moth itself needs another dodge to get 2 Psychics off instead of getting 2HKOd first.

It did happen to me on the first attempt at this battle though, so I'd be completely screwed in a Nuzlocke lol.

Muk takes a beating, but it can't do anything against Gengar, so it's just there for that Gastly flashback. Use Shadow Ball against it for a bit more damage.


Vs. Bruno (Lv. 40)

Gengar was holding MAGNET in this battle.

Bruno isn't quite threatening, but there are some things you want to avoid here.

Top's Dig is definitely one of them. Foresight is less of a problem than it looks because Gengar resists Fighting anyway due to its Poison typing. The damage output does look pretty awful, and it is.

Don't really expect a sweep, that damage will stack up and you'll need to rely on Machamp playing dumb to beat it. If it clicks Rock Slide too often, you're cooked. Crit Chop? Oof. Chop not missing? Big problem. 1v1ing Machamp isn't hard, but the longer that battle goes, the more chances RNG has to take over.

It's a fairly doable matchup, but honestly, you should be able to have something better than this on your team. I guess that's a solid A? Typing matters.

Vs. Karen (Lv. 41)

Back to NMI as the held item.
Umbreon just toys with Gengar. It really has no chance.

Houndoom's Crunch is as brutal as it looks.

Murkrow doesn't have the defenses to take a SE hit, Vileplume can barely get a Stun Spore off, but that's only a problem if you haven't KO'd Murkrow yet.

Vs. Lance (Lv. 42)

Finally an S-Tier performance in a tough battle.

Gyarados AND all three Dragonites are promptly OHKO'd by punches, Gengar can't quite sweep because Aerodactyl and Charizard aren't OHKO'd, so they can take it down. It takes both of them to do the job though. Gyarados and the Lv. 50 DNite may survive on a range, but Outrage doesn't come anywhere close to a KO, and Gyara sets up Rain Dance.
Dominant matchup.

I am officially nominating Gengar to B-Tier.

The arguments for it are simple. Everyone is in agreement that Gengar should be knocked down a tier for the Gastly phase, so there's no sense in going down that road again.

The question of its placement ultimately boils down to how it performs after evolution.

Ultimately, if it performed like an S-Tier, it'd clinch a nomination for A-Tier. However, it fails to deliver on several of GSC's few difficult battles.

The Big Three of bad level curve design in Chuck, Jasmine, and Pryce, struggle to threaten much of anything. The only remotely problematic mon in that entire segment of the game is Chuck's Poliwrath because it has decent stats and reliable STAB. Gengar needs to be at least able to 2HKO Chuck's Poliwrath in order not to lose that battle outright, but that's not particularly difficult.

When you think about battles that require attention in GSC, Whitney, Clair, Will, Bruno, Karen, and Lance are the ones that come to mind.

In a way, true S-Tiers don't really reveal themselves until the Radio Tower. By the way, Gengar gets routed by the Rocket Executive's Houndoom.

Out of all these battles, Gengar is NEVER able to take center stage in most of them, with the notable exception of Lance.

Clair's Kingdra beats it effortlessly. Will's entire team threatens to OHKO it if it can't OHKO them first. And it has no chance of ever OHKOing Slowbro, Jynx, and Exeggutor, Bruno can eventually take it down in a war of attrition even without using Machamp, Karen's most dangerous mons can take it down in a flash.

A Joel Embiid-tier perennial choker can't be called an S-Tier in any way, shape or form. It is however, a solid A-Tier post-evolution. Factoring in the penalty for the awful Gastly phase, it ends up as a B-Tier.

Gengar, at its best, is ultimately a great route cleaner and coverage bot against minor threats in teams. However, its damage output plummets when it fails to strike super-effectively, exposing its frailty and turning Gengar into a liability.

 

[pe5e]

I did some more digging in this thread and found out that some nominations were missed.

Dunsparce has a total of 5 nominations:

• Zebes nominated it for C-tier,
• Ryota Mitarai nominated it for C/D-tier (leaned towards D-tier),
• Roldski32 nominated it for D-tier,
• aegon the unlikely nominated it for D-tier,
• and I nominated it for D-tier

with that in mind Dunsparce would be pretty clearly land in D-tier with sufficient playtesting.

Tentacool seems to likely be better suited for B-tier. Among the 3 C-tier nominations, Ryota Mitarai and Roldski32 thought it could be in B-tier as well.

Also a small correction, Seaking only has 3 nominations currently:
I nominated it for C-tier, while Ryota Mitarai and Zebes nominated it for D-tier.
While it did perform much better than I expected for me, I could see D-tier since it wants to be caught in a Friend Ball, which requires backtracking, wants the Return TM, which is day specific, and the Blizzard TM, which is really expensive. Maybe that is too much investment and brings it to D-tier. I could get along with that. And if we were talking about earliest possible Goldeen, then it is D-tier for sure of course, but all assumed underleveled Seaking from Route 41.

If we assume B-tier for Tentacruel and D-tier for Seaking, then the last remaining Pokemon to be ranked would look like this:

Pokemon with clear ranking

A-tier:
Gastly (Trade)___________(5 A-tier nominations and 1 B-tier nomination)

B-tier:
Rattata__________________(3 B-tier nominations)
Machop (Trade)_________(3 B-tier nominations)
Tentacool________________(3 B-tier nominations, 2 B/C-tier nominations and 1 C-tier nominations)

C-tier:
Machop (No Trade)_____(3 C-tier nominations and 1 D-tier nomination)
Lugia (Silver) ____________(1 A-tier nomination, 1 B-tier nomination and 3 C-tier nomination)
Mantine_________________(3 C-tier nominations)
Shellder (Crystal)________(4 C-tier nominations and 1 C/D-tier nomination)
Slowpoke (Slowking)____(4 C-tier nominations, 1 C/D-tier nomination and 1 D-tier nomination)
Suicune (all versions)____(1 B-tier nomination, 3 C-tier nominations and 1 D-tier nomination)

D-tier:
Corsola__________________(4 D-tier nominations)
Eevee (Flareon) (Crystal)_(1 C-tier nominations, 1 C/D-tier nomination and 3 D-tier nomination)
Dunsparce_______________(1 C-tier nomination, 1 C/D-tier nomination and 3 D-tier nominations)
Goldeen_________________(1 C-tier nominations and 3 D-tier nominations)
Eevee (Jolteon) (Crystal)_(3 D-tier nominations)
Spinarak_________________(3 D-tier nominations)
Vulpix____________________(3 D-tier nominations)

E-tier:
Remoraid________________(3 E-tier nominations)

Pokemon with still unclear ranking

Leaning towards one rank:
Slowpoke (Slowbro)_____(2 C-tier nominations, 1 C/D-tier nomination and 1 D-tier nomination)

Tied:
Exeggcute (Crystal)______(2 C-tier nominations and 2 D-tier nominations)

Only Slowbro and Exeggcute (Crystal) would still be up in the air. Does somebody currently doing a run with them to maybe sort things out? If so, we could be done with the final ranking soon.

Bumping this again because I think it got overlooked at the bottom of the last page.

Currently only 2 Pokemon remain contested:
Slowpoke (Slowbro)_____(2 C-tier nominations, 1 C/D-tier nomination and 1 D-tier nomination)
Exeggcute (Crystal)______(2 C-tier nominations and 2 D-tier nominations)

Does anybody that didn't already nominate them before do a playtest run with them currently or could do one to clear those last two up?
We are very close to finishing the ranking phase of this tier list and could then move over to write-ups.

 

[ASMRxism]

Just gonna throw this out there because it seems like no one is particularly passionate about either of those Pokemon. I played with both in different runs a long time ago. I don't have logs or anything so I understand if this is taken with a grain of salt or just ignored, but Slowbro C, Exeggcute D.

Just looking at the existing noms, you could say that Slowbro has a slim C majority (2.5/1.5, basically). You could also say that, if a tier list is literally considered tiered, Exeggutor failed to secure a claim to C tier and should be D by virtue of not being good enough to clear the C floor.

I know those are some flexible interpretations, but I think they're both logically sound and consistent with what I experienced playing with them both. Slowpoke is slow, but decently bulky enough to take the neutral hits, while super-effective moves (besides Bite) are easy enough to see coming and switch. Confusion is consistently useful for Rockets, and Surf, a hard hitting move, is available pretty early, giving Slowpoke more oomph than some other late evolvers. The late evolution is a drag, but you can slap an HM on it at any time and it earns its keep. It also evolves right when it really wishes it had Ice Punch. None of these TMs are one-offs, it gets good coverage, boom. It's much more of a C- than a D+, looking at the other Pokemon in those tiers.

Exeggcute, however, sucks. Confusion is a compromise for Slowbro; it's Exeggcute's best move. You thought Gastly's baby phase was bad? This thing is only good for sleeping and Leech Seed for the first 19 levels and is weak to everything. Then you finally get a 50 base power move that is your strongest move until right before the Elite Four when you can finally set up the cumbersome Sunny Day/Solar Beam combo if you want to hit like 3 Elite Four Pokemon super-effectively while forgetting a Powder. It's also dependent on the randomness of the Leaf Stone. I get wanting to give it more credit in Crystal but this was so disappointing. It never paid off. It had nothing except Sleep Powder really going for it.

Like I said, I can't back these up with a thorough play test but does anyone want to hold this up for someone to run full play tests for these two? It's not like they're the subject of debate; we're just tallying old noms trying to get a read on where they should land. I don't think anyone would cry fowl if the thread leader just called it and moved into write-ups. I've been following the making of this tier list passively for ages now, it's so close lol

 

[DrumstickGaming]

For comparison when other Psychics learn Confusion in Gen 2 (if at all, not counting postgame options like Mr. Mime):
Girafarig: Level 7 (Psybeam at 41)
Kadabra: Level 16 (Psybeam at 21, Psychic at 38)
Drowzee: Level 18
Slowpoke: Level 20
Smoochum: Level 21
Espeon: Only way is breeding as Eevee comes at level 20 and Espeon learns Confusion at 16, Psybeam at 36.

While Exeggcute's Confusion level of 19 is comparable, I just don't see why you'd use this over the other options. Girafarig and Kadabra and even Hypno are faster. Smoochum basically no one is using thanks to bad Odd Egg stats, and Espeon is about as painfully inefficient as Exeggcute because lol level 36 Psybeam despite better stats, so whatever. Slowpoke isn't great but if you really want Slowbro early you can Surf for it post Morty and it having an actually efficient second STAB in Surf is way better than awkward SolarBeam in a generation that actively hates Grass types.

To use Exeggcute, you are passing up Girafarig's out of the box usability, Kadabra and Hypno's elemental punches, and Slowbro's general usefulness by being a Water that can spam Surf. On the Grass type side, the competitors are just differing flavors of mostly bad so I'm not gonna comment there. This is all for Exeggcute, a Pokemon that evolves via Stone, has Confusion as its high point (granted some of the other options lack Psybeam or Psychic at reasonable levels but still), takes an eternity to get going, and is slower than most of the other Psychic options.

I'm fine with Slowbro in C even though I'm never a fan of 30 base Speed Pokemon. Exeggcute is aggressively hard to justify as higher than D in a game where Grasses suck as is.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Exeggutor is a nice ball of stats, but Confusion can only get something so far.

Getting it to Lv. 19 is slow but not as bad as Gastly. The problem is that while it does have impactful moves in Sleep Powder, Reflect, and to a lesser extent, Leech Seed, it just can't deal enough damage to warrant anything above D. Even Meganium looks like a powerhouse close to Egg. D-Tier.

Slowbro... Just catch one. Seriously. I don't care how good Curse is, it's not worth it AT ALL. The standard Water-type set works. Surf / Ice Punch / Confusion / Rain Dance or Blizzard is pretty much the optimal set for it.

If you want to use Curse, run with Slowking, who has a better SpD to synergize with it and doesn't need to wait until Lv. 37 to evolve in goddamn Johto of all places.

Performance-wise, I could see both making it to B, to be honest. Confusion doesn't move the needle, Surf is more consistent and just as strong. The big deal is the stats. Both Slowtwins hit really hard and are fairly tanky. The backtrack is annoying, but nothing to write home about. Most Water mons are available after Surf anyway, and the Slowtwins are easily among the strongest of the lot.

Their worst matchups are Kingdra and Karen. However, their abysmal speed can easily make them unable to complete a sweep. Therefore, C-Tier feels more appropriate.

 

[pe5e]

If no one is doing a run with them now, then I would also rather get this tier list finished, so that we can get to write-ups.

I personally think Slowbro should be C but I won't deny that it is in a really awkward situation.
If you catch a Slowpoke early, you get Curse and are able to use the Pokemon in a decent amount more of the game. But then you also have to train it up to level 37 to evolve which is just terrible. Plus Slowpoke has some really bad stats. Base 40(!) special attack, folks! Slowpoke's great typing is the sole reason it isn't a complete joke.
And if you catch a Slowbro after Gym 4, then you miss 1 Rival and 3 Gym battles (2 of which are great matchups for Slowpoke with Curse) and you miss out on Curse which is needed to break through Pryce's Dewgong. Getting Slowbro earlier is also not really improving its matchup spread in Gyms 5 and 6 very much.
And no matter which one you are getting, both are terribly slow, which really is a massive issue in gen 2, where you get haxed around every corner. If this was not a Water / Psychic type, I could honestly see D-tier. But C-tier for Slowbro is fine by me.

Execute is also in a weird place. Outside of Crystal is is E-tier easily of course but in Crystal I don't really think it deserves D-tier. It is similar to Slowpoke. Its early stage sucks but its final evolution is solid. Exeggutor just has very nice stats. Its offensive movepool is a joke but Confusion off base 125 special attack and Sludge Bomb from base 95 attack isn't the worst. It can still get those KOs. Exeggcute can be lucky that you get it during Goldenrod City, where it is not hard to get it to level 19. Sleep Powder Hypnosis, Leech Seed and Reflect are also some good support moves. Its biggest problems are the required Leaf Stone (which means backtracking) and its slow level growth rate.
Idk, I won't stay in the way if the majority think it is better suited for D-tier but Exeggutor is still a Psychic type with good stats in gen 2, and I don't like the idea of putting it in D-tier alongside losers like the early game bugs, Maril and Sunkern...

I would say Turdterra has the last word on how we should proceed with Slowbro and Exeggcute (Crytal). Sadly, they haven't logged in the last two weeks, but we should be able to close this off soon hopefully.

 

[Roldski32]

I don't know why this is mentioned but, Exeggutor doesn't learn Sleep Powder by level up, only unevolved Exeggcute learned it by level up, and its locked at Level 37. I don't think its worth dragging unevolve exeggcute that long so that it could have a somewhat better sleep move.

 

[pe5e]

I don't know why this is mentioned but, Exeggutor doesn't learn Sleep Powder by level up, only unevolved Exeggcute learned it by level up, and its locked at Level 37. I don't think its worth dragging unevolve exeggcute that long so that it could have a somewhat better sleep move.

Sorry, I meant Hypnosis of course, not Sleep Powder. Certainly not worth it to wait until level 37 for that. Doesn't change too much for Exeggcute, though.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

If you catch a Slowpoke early, you get Curse and are able to use the Pokemon in a decent amount more of the game. But then you also have to train it up to level 37 to evolve which is just terrible.

Honestly, SlowCurse should just evolve into Slowking. Same idea but much better results.

And if you catch a Slowbro after Gym 4, then you miss 1 Rival and 2 Gym battles (2 of which are great matchups for Slowpoke with Curse) and you miss out on Curse which is needed to break through Pryce's Dewgong. Getting Slowbro earlier is also not really improving its matchup spread in Gyms 5 and 6 very much.

Rain Dance Surf does neutral damage to Dewgong, so it doesn't need Curse for that. It's not like Dewgong can do anything to it anyway.

You miss 3 Gym Battles, and Morty isn't quite a good matchup. Bugsy is a joke either way, but being somewhat able to beat Miltank is valid. I don't see how you don't get flinched to death with Stomp, but it does seem plausible for it to be a tank.

As for Gyms 5 and 6... Consider the following.

Slowpoke has 40 base SpA. That jumps to 100 SpA after evolution. SpD also goes from 40 to at least 80. 110 for King. Those make a big, big difference.

Both are solid C-Tiers.

Exeggutor just has very nice stats. Its offensive movepool is a joke but Confusion off base 125 special attack and Sludge Bomb from base 95 attack isn't the worst. It can still get those KOs.

Reading your logs, I've seen a lot of 3HKOs.

Also, it's slow, has a bad defensive typing due to it being part-Grass, and just to twist the knife a bit further, it's a Slow Exp. Mon.

One could try to argue C, and they would probably fail because relying on Confusion that long is awful, but being a Slow Exp. Mon in Johto is TERRIBLE.

Sure, being on the same tier as Beedrill and Ledian sucks, but think of it as a D+ or top of D-tier. It's definitely not enough to be in C-tier, especially since SpD is a pivotal stat late-game.


Also, I can't help but notice y'all have been mad quiet about Gengar...

 

[pe5e]

Honestly, SlowCurse should just evolve into Slowking. Same idea but much better results.

I agree that you should go for Slowking if you catch an early Slowpoke. But we still have to evaluate if you choose to go for Slowbro and in that case Curse is still a good tool for Slowpoke.

Rain Dance Surf does neutral damage to Dewgong, so it doesn't need Curse for that. It's not like Dewgong can do anything to it anyway.

Are you sure Rain boosted Surf from Slowbro 3HKOs Dewgong? I am not so sure on that. I wasn't able to find a gen 2 damage calculator that takes not maxed out stat exp into account. But from the Pokemon Showdown calculator we can see that it would only be a 4HKO.

Lvl 31 Slowbro Surf vs. Lvl 29 Dewgong in Rain: 28-34 (25.6 - 31.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Here is the comparison from Dewgong's real in-game stats and the lowests stats i could calc with (Slowbro likely also has lower special attack in-game than in that calc):

Maybe it really is a 3HKO but I doubt that until I see it. And if you don't 3HKO Dewgong with Slowbro, then it just PP stalls Slowbro with Rest.

You miss 3 Gym Battles, and Morty isn't quite a good matchup. Bugsy is a joke either way, but being somewhat able to beat Miltank is valid. I don't see how you don't get flinched to death with Stomp, but it does seem plausible for it to be a tank.

As for Gyms 5 and 6... Consider the following.

Slowpoke has 40 base SpA. That jumps to 100 SpA after evolution. SpD also goes from 40 to at least 80. 110 for King. Those make a big, big difference.

Both are solid C-Tiers.

You beat Whitney the same way you beat Bugsy - you set up Curses on their first Pokemon easily and then either OHKO or 2HKO their ace, depending on how much you want to set up. Slowpoke is never in danger against them with boosted stats.

I know Slowpoke has pathetic stats but its typing is so good against Chuck that it doesn't matter. It is a good matchup regardless for even Slowpoke and Slowbro's better stats only make a good matchup even better, which overall doesn't move the needle very much. The Jasmine matchup is also still terrible for Slowbro as both Magnemites still outspeed and 2HKO you while it doesn't OHKO back with Surf. Putting aside that those two gym battles are the only gym battles that early Slowbro has an effect in, it just makes a good matchup even better and a bad matchup slightly less terrible. Not my understanding of a big difference in performance.

Reading your logs, I've seen a lot of 3HKOs.

Also, it's slow, has a bad defensive typing due to it being part-Grass, and just to twist the knife a bit further, it's a Slow Exp. Mon.

One could try to argue C, and they would probably fail because relying on Confusion that long is awful, but being a Slow Exp. Mon in Johto is TERRIBLE.

Sure, being on the same tier as Beedrill and Ledian sucks, but think of it as a D+ or top of D-tier. It's definitely not enough to be in C-tier, especially since SpD is a pivotal stat late-game.


Also, I can't help but notice y'all have been mad quiet about Gengar...

It rarely gets OHKOs but that doesn't mean it has trouble killing opponents like some other lower ranked Pokemon have. And while it is slow, it also isn't on the same level as Slowbro or Ariados. With base 55, stat exp and the badge boost, it will still outspeed a lot of mons.
While the Grass type is horribly offensively, Exeggutor's defensive profile isn't that bad since you get it after Falkner and Bugsy. It matches up well against several gym leaders and members of the Elite Four. A special bulk of base 95 HP and 75 special defesnse isn't awful.

As for Gengar, I added your nomination in my table but for now the A-tier looks pretty set in stone.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

You beat Whitney the same way you beat Bugsy - you set up Curses on their first Pokemon easily and then either OHKO or 2HKO their ace, depending on how much you want to set up. Slowpoke is never in danger against them with boosted stats.

I know Slowpoke has pathetic stats but its typing is so good against Chuck that it doesn't matter. It is a good matchup regardless for even Slowpoke and Slowbro's better stats only make a good matchup even better, which overall doesn't move the needle very much. The Jasmine matchup is also still terrible for Slowbro as both Magnemites still outspeed and 2HKO you while it doesn't OHKO back with Surf. Putting aside that those two gym battles are the only gym battles that early Slowbro has an effect in, it just makes a good matchup even better and a bad matchup slightly less terrible. Not my understanding of a big difference in performance.

That's fair. It really doesn't seem to make a difference in the major battles. Since you actually trained Slowpoke to Lv. 37, I'll take your word for it on the route clearing front.

You do outspeed Jasmine's Steelix with the underleveled Slowbro though, so that should be a bit better, despite the inevitable weather wars with her spamming Sunny Day. Too much of a hassle no matter how you slice it.

You beat Whitney the same way you beat Bugsy - you set up Curses on their first Pokemon easily and then either OHKO or 2HKO their ace, depending on how much you want to set up. Slowpoke is never in danger against them with boosted stats.

To be fair, it really should be fine to set up against Whitney's Clefairy.

We both agree it should be C anyway, so I don't think that really moves the needle. It's more for clarification that Poke -> King is optimal for Slowpoke. That kind of thing matters in writeups.

It rarely gets OHKOs but that doesn't mean it has trouble killing opponents like some other lower ranked Pokemon have. And while it is slow, it also isn't on the same level as Slowbro or Ariados. With base 55, stat exp and the badge boost, it will still outspeed a lot of mons.
While the Grass type is horribly offensively, Exeggutor's defensive profile isn't that bad since you get it after Falkner and Bugsy. It matches up well against several gym leaders and members of the Elite Four. A special bulk of base 95 HP and 75 special defesnse isn't awful.

The problem with it boils down to whether or not it gets to reach C-Tier efficiency.

C-Tier: Reserved for Pokémon whose efficiency in terms of completing the game is considered to be moderately high. Pokémon in this tier are able to OHKO or 2HKO a reasonable portion of opponents but are matchup-based enough to need some item reliance to assist in sweeping some opponents. These Pokémon are useful but either have several visible flaws holding them back or barely make up for their late arrivals.

Egg's strongest attacks usually 3HKO or 2HKO bigger opponents at best. It's a hard sell to call that a C-Tier.

It's also very reliant on Hypnosis to not get packed up before it can land those 3HKOs, judging by your logs.

As for Gengar, I added your nomination in my table but for now the A-tier looks pretty set in stone.

Oh, I know. Just pointing it out.

Writeups time?

 

[pe5e]

Write-ups time?

Since its Turdterra 's thread, they get to make the final call. If we all agree on Slowbro in C-tier and Exeggcute (Crystal) in D-tier then this would be the final tiers for the remaining Pokemon.

A-tier:
Gastly (Trade)___________(5 A-tier nominations and 1 B-tier nomination)

B-tier:
Rattata__________________(3 B-tier nominations)
Machop (Trade)_________(3 B-tier nominations)
Tentacool________________(3 B-tier nominations, 2 B/C-tier nominations and 1 C-tier nominations)

C-tier:
Machop (No Trade)_____(3 C-tier nominations and 1 D-tier nomination)
Lugia (Silver) ____________(1 A-tier nomination, 1 B-tier nomination and 3 C-tier nomination)
Mantine_________________(3 C-tier nominations)
Shellder (Crystal)________(4 C-tier nominations and 1 C/D-tier nomination)
Slowpoke (Slowking)____(4 C-tier nominations, 1 C/D-tier nomination and 1 D-tier nomination)
Slowpoke (Slowbro)_____(2 C-tier nominations, 1 C/D-tier nomination and 1 D-tier nomination)
Suicune (all versions)____(1 B-tier nomination, 3 C-tier nominations and 1 D-tier nomination)

D-tier:
Corsola__________________(4 D-tier nominations)
Eevee (Flareon) (Crystal)_(1 C-tier nominations, 1 C/D-tier nomination and 3 D-tier nomination)
Dunsparce_______________(1 C-tier nomination, 1 C/D-tier nomination and 3 D-tier nominations)
Goldeen_________________(1 C-tier nominations and 3 D-tier nominations)
Eevee (Jolteon) (Crystal)_(3 D-tier nominations)
Exeggcute (Crystal)______(2 C-tier nominations and 2 D-tier nominations)
Spinarak_________________(3 D-tier nominations)
Vulpix____________________(3 D-tier nominations)

E-tier:
Remoraid________________(3 E-tier nominations)


The write-ups would likely be done in a new thread that also needs a new leader since Turdterra wanted to step down after this thread finishes the final tier list order. If someone wants to take that on, then feel free to state that here I guess. Misunderstanding on my part, sorry.

 

[Turdterra]

Gengar is set into A Tier.

The write-ups would likely be done in a new thread that also needs a new leader since Turdterra wanted to step down after this thread finishes the final tier list order. If someone wants to take that on, then feel free to state that here I guess.

I have never once said this. If it had been inferred in some manner, it would have been better to personally message me then assume this is what I wanted. I will be seeing the list to it's completion even in Write Ups and then retire from IGTL or at least leading them.

 

[pe5e]

I have never once said this. If it had been inferred in some manner, it would have been better to personally message me then assume this is what I wanted. I will be seeing the list to it's completion even in Write Ups and then retire from IGTL or at least leading them.

I am sorry, I didn't intend to put words in your mouth.
That was my understanding from your post.
I am happy to hear that you want to continue to lead this project to its conclusion.

 

[Turdterra]

It's not a problem. I may have come off way to blunt there as well so I apologize. I will be doing a quick run on Slowbro and Eggs here to get input in as well since they seem to be talked about quite a bit here. I will probably test it as Slowpoke, get a Slowbro, and test the two in conjunction since I have the space.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

A-tier:
Gastly (Trade)___________(5 A-tier nominations and 1 B-tier nomination)

Let the records show I stood on business.

Since there's nothing else to be tested, see y'all on the write-ups I guess.

 

[pe5e]

Turdterra Did you finish your test run? When we settle Slowbro and Exeggcute, then the final rankings can be set it stone and the write-ups thread can open.

 

[Thunderfang777]

Why isn't Machop on this tier list?

 

[Karxrida]

Why isn't Machop on this tier list?

OP has yet to be updated I presume. It has preliminary placements a couple posts up from yours.

These things take awhile lol. I know from experience.

 

[Thunderfang777]

OP has yet to be updated I presume. It has preliminary placements a couple posts up from yours.

These things take awhile lol. I know from experience.

But didn't this tier list come out in 2021? I assumed the tier list makers missed a spot while making the list.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

But didn't this tier list come out in 2021? I assumed the tier list makers missed a spot while making the list.

It hasn't quite been finished yet.

Machop wound up at B-Tier (Machamp)/C-Tier (Machoke)

Come to think of it, was there anything left to test before write-ups? I guess we could wrap this one up already, right?

 

[Thunderfang777]

It hasn't quite been finished yet.

Machop wound up at B-Tier (Machamp)/C-Tier (Machoke)

Come to think of it, was there anything left to test before write-ups? I guess we could wrap this one up already, right?

Oh. B-tier? I thought Machamp would have been A-tier. I know that Machop is the best fighting type in the game, and its moveset is greatly improved from gen 1.

I guess that shows how much I know about GSC.

 

[ASMRxism]

Oh. B-tier? I thought Machamp would have been A-tier. I know that Machop is the best fighting type in the game, and its moveset is greatly improved from gen 1.

I guess that shows how much I know about GSC.

Great when you get it, but falls off quickly. Its in-game moveset is arguably worse than Gen 1 since the Rock Slide TM comes right after you get Machop in RBY, while in GSC it doesn't really get anything. It Karate Chops until Vital Throw, which isn't even that great, finally shows up at 34 and its best coverage until Victory Road is Dig.

It's not bad since Fighting weakness is fairly common and Fighting moves are fairly rare, but it doesn't compare to A-tier options.

 

[Thunderfang777]

Great when you get it, but falls off quickly. Its in-game moveset is arguably worse than Gen 1 since the Rock Slide TM comes right after you get Machop in RBY, while in GSC it doesn't really get anything. It Karate Chops until Vital Throw, which isn't even that great, finally shows up at 34 and its best coverage until Victory Road is Dig.

It's not bad since Fighting weakness is fairly common and Fighting moves are fairly rare, but it doesn't compare to A-tier options.

Also, if we already know what tier Machop is in, then why isn't it shown on the tier list?