Lower Tiers GSC PU Viability Rankings

Holly

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:gs/Hitmonchan: :gs/murkrow::gs/Magcargo: :gs/Furret: GSC PU Viability Rankings:gs/Venomoth: :gs/Poliwhirl: :gs/Elekid::gs/Seadra:


Welcome to the GSC PU Viability Rankings! Pokemon are ordered by effectiveness!
Thread maintained by Holly
(READ: This VR has not been updated post Hitmonchan ban​
PUBL
:Hitmonchan:
Hitmonchan


S Rank


01: :Furret: Furret

A Rank


A+ Rank
02: :Seadra: Seadra
03: :Murkrow: Murkrow
04: :Venomoth: Venomoth
05: :poliwhirl: Poliwhirl

A Rank

06 :Drowzee: Drowzee
07: :elekid: Elekid
08: :Magcargo: Magcargo
09: :Tangela: Tangela
10: :Abra: Abra
11: :Cubone: Cubone

A- Rank

12: :Seaking: Seaking
13: :voltorb: Voltorb
14: :Aipom: Aipom
15: :machoke: Machoke
16: :flaaffy: Flaaffy
17: :Clefairy: Clefairy
18: :Rhyhorn: Rhyhorn:
19: :Omanyte: Omanyte
20: :Gastly: Gastly
21: :Noctowl: Noctowl
22: :Sunflora: Sunflora

B RANK

B+ Rank

23: :hitmontop: Hitmontop
24: :Delibird: Delibird
25 :Beedrill: Beedrill
26: :Charmeleon: Charmeleon
27: :Golbat: Golbat
28: :Eevee: Eevee

B Rank

29: :Ariados: Ariados
30: :Geodude: Geodude
31: :Corsola: Corsola
32: :Slowpoke: Slowpoke
33: :ponyta: Ponyta
34: :Mantine: Mantine
35: :Staryu: Staryu

B- Rank

36: :Grimer: Grimer
37: :Snubbull: Snubbull
38: :Weepinbell: Weepinbell
39: :Wobbuffet: Wobbuffet
40: :Parasect: Parasect

C RANK

C+ Rank

41: :Bayleef: Bayleef
42: :Doduo: Doduo
43: :Quilava: Quilava
44: :Togetic: Togetic
45: :Ivysaur: Ivysaur

C Rank

46: :Nidorino: Nidorino
47: :Nidorina: Nidorina
48: :Onix: Onix
49: :Krabby: Krabby
50: :Diglett: Diglett
51: :Ledyba: Ledyba
52: :Tentacool: Tentacool

C- Rank

53: :Wartortle: Wartortle
54: :Croconaw: Croconaw
55: :Koffing: Koffing
56: :Magby: Magby
57: :Poliwag: Poliwag
58: :Skiploom: Skiploom
59: :Growlithe: Growlithe

D Rank

60: :Butterfree: Butterfree
61: :Pidgeotto: Pidgeotto
62: :Smoochum: Smoochum
63: :Phanpy: Phanpy
64: :Teddiursa: Teddirusa
65: :Sandshrew: Sandshrew
66: :Natu: Natu
67: :Mankey: Mankey
68: :Ditto: Ditto
69: :Swinub: Swinub
70: :Meowth: Meowth
71: :Kabuto: Kabuto
 
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Holly

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Just gonna make a few nominations after playing this tier more.


:gs/Magcargo: :gs/Seaking:
A- to A

These two are very good, and I think both could be moved up to A. Magcargo is one of the best defensive Pokemon available, and I think it’s virtually mandatory on defensive teams. I’ve been using a more offensive set with Fire Blast/Sunny Day/Rest/Sleep Talk that can work well vs quite a lot. Seaking is a hugely threatening offensive threat with decent coverage, Sub Seaking in particular can do well vs defensive teams.

:gs/Hitmonchan:
A to A+

Hitmonchan has really established itself as a top Pokemon with Body Slam now legal on it. It’s really tough to switch into Body Slam since a lot of stuff that naturally checks it is ruined by paralysis, Murkrow and Venomoth being good examples. Agility sets seem to have success as well.

:gs/Gastly:
A- to B+

Gastly is not amazing atm and seems to be getting dropped on most teams. It has serious downsides being fragility, Murkrow weakness, and all around inconsistency.

:gs/Beedrill: :gs/Geodude:
B to B+

Both of these are threatening with the right support and can become difficult to stop if your team is paralysed. Geodude has a great STAB Combo and can break open holes for teamates with Explosion. Beedrill can be similarly good with Substitute and Swords Dance

:gs/Snubbull:
B- to B

Heal Bell is a hugely useful tool for Pokemon like Curse Surf Furret. Snubbull can also fit well on offensive teams with their weakness to status moves
 

Earthworm

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I really like the Magcargo set, simultaneously boosting your Fire Blast and also nerfing Surf Furret (thanks to Magcargo's actually decent SpDef stat for a Rock-type) sounds like it could potentially be very useful. Seaking is a Pokemon I expected to be really good as well, but it hadn't seemed to be living up to the hype so much. I think now that the metagame has shifted away from Elekid a bit, it is finally showing up.

Beedrill I think is very hit-or-miss. There are some Pokemon it doesn't deal with well, like Psychic Venomoth. But this weakness can probably be overcome since Body Slam Hitmonchan can probably paralyse it now. In fact, I would expect that Body Slam Hitmonchan is going to nerf Venomoth by a huge amount, since it was one of Venomoth's main opportunities to switch in and start wreaking havoc before without having to risk paralysis against Tangela for example, but now most teams seem to have fat Pokemon that can deal with Venomoth pretty easily. I'm curious as to whether Venomoth can somehow switch to a Sleep Talk set itself as an adaptation without losing too much efficacy.

Gastly I think is going to turn out to be decent. I expect that people will be able to get it to work if they try hard enough. It walls RestTalk Body Slam Hitmonchan, after all. I suppose it has some problems getting around Magcargo / Flaaffy / Drowzee / Murkrow though.. Perhaps some of them can be dealt with using coverage moves (Thunder, HP Water or Shadow Ball maybe?) and the others with Explosion? Seems like it might be a good way to get Elekid to work.
 
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B+ to A-

These 2 are great fits at paralysis based teams, and for that I think they should be ranked a bit higher.


Clefairy's set of Curse/Body Slam/Moonlight/Filler is very simple and effective. The filler can be basically anything that fits your team better, Thunder Wave can spread paralysis against specific targets, Counter can suprise KO a fighting type trying to hit Clefairy for super effective damage and Clefairy's big special movepool is there for testing.

Rhyhorn is a great counter to Curse RestTalk Normals like Furret and Noctowl with its Curse/QuakeSlide/Roar since Rhyhorn can just setup alongside them or just phaze them out, it struggles against Water and Grass types, but with some chip damage and paralysis spreading, it can muscle through them.
 

Holly

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is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
View attachment 294531View attachment 294533
B+ to A-

These 2 are great fits at paralysis based teams, and for that I think they should be ranked a bit higher.


Clefairy's set of Curse/Body Slam/Moonlight/Filler is very simple and effective. The filler can be basically anything that fits your team better, Thunder Wave can spread paralysis against specific targets, Counter can suprise KO a fighting type trying to hit Clefairy for super effective damage and Clefairy's big special movepool is there for testing.

Rhyhorn is a great counter to Curse RestTalk Normals like Furret and Noctowl with its Curse/QuakeSlide/Roar since Rhyhorn can just setup alongside them or just phaze them out, it struggles against Water and Grass types, but with some chip damage and paralysis spreading, it can muscle through them.
Regarding Clefairy, I definitely agree with this. It can be tough to stop when it gets going without a Normal-resist and also can spread paralysis reliably for slower threats such as Machoke. Rhyhorn I haven’t used much myself, but it does seem to have success as a stop to Surfless Furret, so I support both of these nominations
 

B+ to A, possibly A-

In my personal opinion this cute little spiral shell mon does a lot more than you'd expect and should be moved up once (or twice)! Technically speaking, Omanyte has the ability to defensively check some of the most prominent Pokemon in the metagame; examples being Furret lacking HP Grass / Surf and multiple curses, Delibird, etc.

Great physical bulk makes it stand out pretty well. It is also able to defend from +4 Belly Drum Charmeleon with ease, while generally being a great choice for defensive teams. The ability to use Haze and being a great option all around makes this thing a cool mon imo. I think it deserves some more traction, because it's defensive utility can't be let down.
 
:elekid:
A to low A+ or at least 11. to 7.

Despite of its frailty I'd like to make this nomination, Elekid is such a beast that needs serious respect on teambuilder, it hits decently hard with a good movepool and it has a great speed tier, being one of the fastest mons out there, if you don't have Drowzee, Flaaffy or Sunflora you are in a really painful spot. I consider almost mandatory on every offensive team, being able to matchup well against opposing offense due to its high speed and being able to break common defensive cores. When paired with a layer of Spikes it becomes such a behemoth, every defensive answer needs to heal in order to repeatedly switch in against it and it can win games on its own if the foe lacks a sturdy switchin.

I can't see it being below Abra, Tangela, Magcargo and Drowzee (I do have my doubts on it being higher than Poliwhirl) but it really looks like as effective as an A+ pokemon.

:sunflora:
B+ to A-

I understand it is usually overshadowed by Tangela as a bulky Grass-type due to stats allowing it to be one of the only checks to threats like the Hitmons, Poliwhirl and Cubone and the ability to spread status, but I think Sunflora has its space at A-. It is one of the only (if not the only) solid defensive answer to Seadra and a reliable check to Elekid as I mentioned above. It does suffer quite a bit from Venomoth and Murkrow being two of the most used mons in the tier and the dominance of Furret (this thing is stupid) does not help either, but it has the ability to break through walls such as hazeless Mantine and Drowzee with little effort thanks to its access to Growth. Nevertheless I gotta admit I'm kinda backed against the wall doing this specific nomination due to its notable flaws and comparing it with the mons at A- and B+ (Its probably worse than almost everything at A- but I feel that its way better than everything at B+).

Great job with this list ReeceHughes , it looks very accurate overall
 
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Great ranking I think. Just opinion of mine;

8013B967-CBA1-4A16-B12C-882DCB16C151.png
C+→B or B+
sample sets; Swords dance/Body slam/Synthesis/Hidden power ground
This pokemon has potential as sweeper in this tier. His decent bulk can survive 2 times double-edge of Furret,or 2 times ice punch of Abla, so he can set swords dance easily. After single swords dance, he beats many pokemon 3〜4hits.
Hidden power grownd is for magcargo and gastly.

56C93949-06A7-49C3-B7F9-7CB621DFA628.png
B-→B or B+
sample set; Sludge bomb/Stun spore/Synthesis/Encore
Weepinbell is well-known as sleep powder+swords-dance sweeper in this tier, but he can also fulfill a defensive role. For example, the set abobe can be a great counter of "hitmons". he gets little damage by hitmons unless they have body slam. when they use curse, he can counter completely by using Encore.

92A9041C-8107-4EC4-96B4-97F7435C8D40.png
B→A-
sample set; Surf/Toxic/Recover/Ice beam or Sandstorm@MystericWater or Leftovers
Just simple; Corsola walls almost evely Furret. This is enough reason to use him in this tier. By having Mysteric water, he maybe defeat Furret 3 times of surf. He also can wall other threats as magcargo, abla, venomoth, seadra, murkrow. You must take care of hidden power glass, but this pokemon can be consider as a "great guardian" in this tier.

70895EFA-AFE2-4CD8-BC56-815C872F9E72.png
C→B
sample set; Earthquake/Explosion/Roar/Toxic
Useful rock/ground pokemon. I think he isn't outclassed by geodude, or even rhyhorn maybe. He can walls baton passer by roar. He outspeeds tangela, and can damage him by Explosion.

2BBBD8EF-D4D9-4962-90A0-EF8AFD9F2FBC.png
B→B+,
29B5D413-F078-4DBE-B232-565C48712AF9.png
A-→B+
Ariados has higher bulk than Aibom, and has resistance to fighting type. he also can use spider web+baton pass, which is very usefull to break opponent's party, and what is great, it isn't walled by haze. I think it is reasonable to put "the two greatest baton passer" in the same rank.

3DC61D9E-C146-4988-AB59-3196980B37A5.png
out of rank→C+
sample set; Hidden power flying/Endure/Reversal/Giga drain@FocusBand or MiracleBerry
Completely foggoten S95, but he seems not so bad. Hp-flying+Giga drain has good coverage, and Reversal damages Furret and Magcargo.
 

Attachments

He also can wall other threats as magcargo, abla, venomoth, seadra, murkrow
Corsola can take care of some Furret variants, Magcargo and Murkrow, but by no means it can handle well Abra, Seadra and Venomoth.

Abra hits it decently hard and packs Thunder Punch to deal more damage to it. Although Abra can`t 2HKO it, you can`t just try to stall it out because it can drop your SpD with Psychic or para you with Thunder Punch/Thunder Wave.
Abra Thunder Punch vs. Corsola: 125-148 (39.9 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Corsola: 122-144 (38.9 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Abra Psychic vs. Corsola: 112-132 (35.7 - 42.1%) -- 91.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Corsola Surf vs. Abra: 113-133 (44.6 - 52.5%) -- 20.6% chance to 2HKO

Seadra simply does not care at all about Corsola, in fact Corsola is used as setup fodder by Seadra if it has Substitute (which I can tell you that is most of the time) and anyone who played a decent amount of gsc pu games knows how painful it can be if you give Seadra a free subs.
Seadra Surf vs. Corsola: 110-130 (35.1 - 41.5%) -- 80.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Seadra Hydro Pump vs. Corsola: 140-165 (44.7 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Seadra Surf vs. Corsola in Rain: 165-195 (52.7 - 62.3%) -- 99.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Seadra Hydro Pump vs. Corsola in Rain: 210-247 (67 - 78.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Corsola Surf vs. Seadra: 62-73 (20.8 - 24.5%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

The Venomoth mention is not that notable, because the real threat Venomoth can present is Giga Drain, this is not the most used option on Venomoth but I thought I should mention this because it is more common on Venomoth than HP Grass is on Furret.
Venomoth Giga Drain vs. Corsola: 180-212 (57.5 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Corsola Surf vs. Venomoth: 95-112 (27.6 - 32.6%) -- 75.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Corsola Rock Slide vs. Venomoth: 158-186 (46 - 54.2%) -- 4.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
i havent played this tier but why is furret s+
Furret is able to sweep using Curse + Double Edge vs. a lot of teams incredibly easily with very little checks in Rock types like Magcargo, Rhyhorn, and Corsola and the rare-ish Gastly. However, any checks it would have are baited and OHKO'd with coverage such as Surf and HP Grass. Without these checks, Furret can very easily spam a now unresisted Double Edge and 2HKO most of the tier.
 
I now understand that it is difficult to say that corsola can deal with seadra or abra, venomoth. but, I wonder that if corsola carries sandstorm, seadra's substitute isn't so much threats for him, maybe. It's not based on experience, just guess, sry
 

Holly

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It’s been a while and there’s a few changes I think should be made to this

:gs/Hitmonchan:

Hitmonchan is the clear second best Pokemon in the tier and fits into every team without drawback. It 1v1s an absolute ridiculous amount of the tier and the few Pokemon that can switch into it(Slowpoke, Gastly, and Drowzed being good example), mostly all get Pursuited. It shapes the tier to such a degree that I’m suggesting it to be S-Rank.

:gs/Murkrow: :gs/Venomoth: :gs/Seadra:


These three are definitely the 3rd, 4th, and 5th of the tier, but I’m not sure how to order them. I’d personally go with Seadra>Murkrow>Venomoth, as Seadra is almost impossible to wall without a Pokemon such as Sunflora while providing the role of a Hazer that pretty much every team needs. Krow pairs almost perfectly with Hitmonchan and CurseTalk Furret, and having insane speed alongside solid offensive power make it a true wildcard on teams. Venomoth is definitely not the number 2 mon I believe, as while it provides insane utility, the prominence of Body Slam Hitmonchan which can cripple as well as Magcargo has made it worse then it once was.
 

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