Hail discussion thread

FlareBlitz

Relaxed nature. Loves to eat.
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
I've been messing around with hail, and this set has given me success :3

Jynx @ Leftovers/Life Orb
-Lovely Kiss
-Nasty Plot
-Blizzard
-Substitute/Focus Blast/Grass Knot

Jynx is fairly quick by UU standards, and comes with an excellent special attack and a reliable sleep move. This allows you to generate turns to set up and/or incapacitate counters, and possibly sweep with immense power and excellent coverage (or a protective substitute).

Substitute is excellent for scouting purposes and ice is a pretty decent mono-attacking type, although Empoleon and Walrein do cause problems. Adding a coverage move, either in Focus Blast or Grass Knot, allows Jynx to take out specific counters - Focus Blast for Registeel and Cobalion, Grass Knot for Suicune and Milotic.
 
This isn't exactly the most appropriate place to post a team, but I'll pick it apart anyways. I tried to change as little as possible.

Changes in bold:
Thanks for the critiques. Sorry for the goof on putting abomasnow twice and the icy rock. I was playing with the team the way I had and I'm not very happy with abomasnow. I'll try him with the changes you suggested, but I don't know if he'll subseed very well. The slot he fills is necessary, but he just seems so worthless after setting up hail.

I've also contemplated using stallrein on here and slowking as a special wall. I'll try some more battling and let you know what I come up with.

EDIT: Also, I'm assuming PO calculates speed the same as in the game, but my Kyurem is scarfed with max spd EVs and my friend had the same setup on an Arcanine. Their speeds are the same so it's supposed to be random as to who goes first; however, every time I played him, his Arcanine went first. WTF mate? O.o
 
Has anyone actually tried Eviolite Snover? I know it has slightly more bulk than Abomasnow, but it has a lower speed stat/attack stat/everything else stat.

I was wondering whether Eviolite Snover can dodge OHKO's where Abomansow can't.
 
Thanks for the critiques. Sorry for the goof on putting abomasnow twice and the icy rock. I was playing with the team the way I had and I'm not very happy with abomasnow. I'll try him with the changes you suggested, but I don't know if he'll subseed very well. The slot he fills is necessary, but he just seems so worthless after setting up hail.

I've also contemplated using stallrein on here and slowking as a special wall. I'll try some more battling and let you know what I come up with.

EDIT: Also, I'm assuming PO calculates speed the same as in the game, but my Kyurem is scarfed with max spd EVs and my friend had the same setup on an Arcanine. Their speeds are the same so it's supposed to be random as to who goes first; however, every time I played him, his Arcanine went first. WTF mate? O.o
His Arcanine either has a greater speed IV than that of your Kyurem's, or he's just really lucky when it comes to speed ties.


Has anyone actually tried Eviolite Snover? I know it has slightly more bulk than Abomasnow, but it has a lower speed stat/attack stat/everything else stat.

I was wondering whether Eviolite Snover can dodge OHKO's where Abomansow can't.
These are neutral natured, perfect IVs, 0 EVs Snover's defensive stats with Eviolite(Level 100):

HP: 261
Def: 204
Sp.Def: 234

These are neutral natured, perfect IVs, 0 EVs Abomasnow's defensive stats(Level 100):

HP: 321
Def: 186
Sp.Def: 206

Obviously Eviolite will give a much bigger boost depending on how much you choose to invest in it's defenses, but it really seems like the inferior choice to Abomasnow. Seriously, what's the point of a defensive Pokémon with Ice/Grass typing?
 
Hmm...Would Nidoking work as a special-sweeper, as it can abuse Blizzard and Sheer Force? Or maybe a mixed sweeper? It may not be like Nidoqueen, whose defenses are good, but it still does get the Fighting and Rock resists that Ice Pokemon despise.
 
I'm surprised there hasn't been much mention of two of Hail's strongest attackers: Weavile and Mamoswine. While they don't get the Blizzard benefit from hail, they fit naturally as they don't take damage from Hail. Weavile in particular benefits from being faster than Chlorophyll sweepers (even though he has Ice Shard access).

Weavile @ Life Orb
Pressure
Jolly / Adamant
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Swords Dance
Ice Shard / Ice Punch
Night Slash
Low Kick

This is ridiculously hard to pull off but potentially one of the most devastating powerhouses in UU. Weavile already outspeeds a ton of stuff and with Swords Dance he can hit tremendously hard. However, actually getting in an SD is quite challenging so a more realistic set looks like this:

Weavile @ Choice Band
Pressure
Jolly
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Ice Shard
Ice Punch
Low Kick
Night Slash

Same idea basically. Without having to worry about setting up, Weavile can be a potent revenge killer. The only issue this has, however, is big competition from CB Mamoswine, considering Mamo is bulkier, has higher base Attack to abuse Ice Shard, and better coverage with Stone Edge and STAB EQ. Weavile's higher speed, however, means he can be relied on to revenge a lot of things that could give Mamoswine a hard time, like an Azelf that has one Nasty Plot under its belt. Speaking of Mamoswine...

Mamoswine @ Choice Band
Oblivious
Adamant
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Ice Shard
Icicle Crash
Earthquake
Stone Edge

Holy crap this thing can demolish. I'm running this on my non-Hail team as a revenge killer and its Ice Shard is so powerful that it can maul just about anything. Mamo actually fits well into a Hail team as a potent check to Chlorophyll sweepers.
 
I have a banded Weavile and it's a really heavy hitter. Predictions definitely figure into your success at using it, but if you do it right, it can sweep a lot of pokes.
 
Just for the curious:

Jolly CB Weavile's Pursuit versus 4 HP Victini(On the switch/Full power):

508 Atk vs 236 Def & 342 HP (80 Base Power): 372 - 438 (108.77% - 128.07%)

Jolly CB Weavile's Pursuit versus -1 Def 4 HP Victini(Staying in/Halved power):

508 Atk vs 157 Def & 342 HP (40 Base Power): 278 - 330 (81.29% - 96.49%)

Of course, the latter calculation is based on switching in after a V-Create.
 
I prefer scarf mamo over CB mamo. It has great stab coverage and it's hard to reliably switch into mamo (prediction is key). I run Ice shard to kill other scarfers or setup sweeper off at low health. It also looks like people dont expect mamo to be scarfed and stay in expecting a desperate ice shard just to get killed off by eq/icicle crash. definately worth trying
 

breh

強いだね
@SJcrew: what idiot switches cobalion in on low kick? generally, weavile will pursuit something out and then be forced out.

Also, that staying victini calc is unfortunate. The fact that it has a chance to die without killing victini is akward.

In any case, one should be more devoted to killing Vulpix with pursuit than victini, and weavile is not near anywhere near as competent as literally any other learner of STAB (or Technician, I guess) pursuit.
 
@SJcrew: what idiot switches cobalion in on low kick? generally, weavile will pursuit something out and then be forced out.
Well, considering that Weavile is faster than Cobalion, in a one-on-one situation (i.e. both trainers are down to their last Pokemon), Weavile beats Cobalion every time.

Do people even use Scarf Cobalion? No, right? God, I hope not.
 

SJCrew

Believer, going on a journey...
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
@SJcrew: what idiot switches cobalion in on low kick? generally, weavile will pursuit something out and then be forced out.

Also, that staying victini calc is unfortunate. The fact that it has a chance to die without killing victini is akward.

In any case, one should be more devoted to killing Vulpix with pursuit than victini, and weavile is not near anywhere near as competent as literally any other learner of STAB (or Technician, I guess) pursuit.
Should have known you were trolling from the start, but since it's Weavile we're talking about...

Most Pursuiters don't even get STAB on Pursuit. They also don't get STAB Ice Shard, Ice Punch, or even a powerful Low Kick. They also don't have the luxury of that nice base 125 Speed that allows it to keep so many things in check.

Heck, I've even seen Weavile basically dismantle teams on its own without Rocks to stop it. And this is basically just a pattern of "revenge kill, revenge kill, Pursuit, clean up." Ask my boy ShinyAzelf. LOL.

It's a shame you have to resort to trolling us because you're so bad at using a good Pokemon. Even bigger shame is that it wasn't even funny in 4th gen where it actually had competition.
 
TEAM IS FLAWED

ive been running an all ice team for IRL social pokemon thing where we have monotype teams and play as gym leaders, and although it isnt UU(i have cloyster in my team, we pretty much just ban ubers) i gotta say, its gotten me a lot of wins, even with imperfect IVs, hail can destroy a lot of teams if used correctly,

my team consists of

Abomasnow sassy
Snow Warning
Leftovers
move1:blizzard
move2:wood hammer
move3:protect
move4:leech seed

Cloyster Adamant
Skill Link
King's Rock
move1:Icicle Spear
move2:Rock Blast
move3:Shell Smash
move4:Hydro Pump

Cryogonal Hasty
Levitate
Light Clay
move1:Reflect
move2:Light Screen
Move3:Blizzard
move4:Rapis Spin

Kyurem Timid
Pressure
Choice Specs
move1:Blizzard
move2:Dragon Pulse
move3:Draco Meteor
move4:Focus Blast

Rotom-F Timid
Levitate
Life Orb
move1:Blizzard
move2:Charge Beam
move3:Substitute
move4:Thunderbolt

Froslass Jolly
Snow Cloak
Bright Powder
move1:Blizzard
move2:Spikes
move3:Thunder Wave
move4:Shadow Ball

now this team is really flawed, and yes the froslass is jolly, it should be timid, but i was lazy, and it isnt a big attacker anyways, and pretty much this team is my take on an offensive hail team, with three heavy hitters, and three support pokes, ive swept through teams made just to break this specific team down, and this is with OU threats being used, like tyranitar switching my weather and threatening my pokes,it isnt really a problem. and yes having the ice type on every one of my pokemon is a really bad idea, as fire types and fighting types love to switch in on them, i can take care of them with ease, cloyster being the main check/killer of them, and most of their team.
 
I recommend replacing Dragon Pulse on Kyurem with HP Fire if you can for Ferrothorn and the assorted bug/steels. Looks pretty good overall.
Don't forget this is UU, Bug/Steels aren't very common in this tier. Actually there is only one, Escavalier. THEREFORE, Dragon Pulse > HP Fire, has better coverage and hits way harder with STAB.
 
^Regardless of how poorly Durant absorbs Special attacks, his existence means that Escavalier isn't the only Bug/Steel type in UU. I was just pointing this out to Whimsicott.
 
^Regardless of how poorly Durant absorbs Special attacks, his existence means that Escavalier isn't the only Bug/Steel type in UU. I was just pointing this out to Whimsicott.
My bad :P
Only pokemon that can take a Dragon Pulse coming from a 130 SP ATK entered my mind.
 
I'm working on a Hail team right now with Eviolite Sealeo as well as Stallrein:

Sealeo @ Eviolite
Bold
252HP/52Def/204Spe

Same moves as its dad, though you can also run Aqua Ring to make up for the lack of leftovers recovery over Toxic, because most of the rest of the team is a bunch of Toxic stallers.

I haven't perfected the 3 other 'mons to go around them and Obama yet, though. :(
 

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