Pokémon Heracross

[MegaMogwai]

The problem with Heracross is that priority flying type moves are four times as effective on it and it has no priority of its own. To me, it sounds like a pretty bad idea for a baton pass receiver.

The main problem I have encountered using baton pass with Heracross is that if my opponent runs talonflame or pinsir, im pretty much screwed. I can set up rocks and try to phaze and all that but if the opponent is a good player it's hard to get rid of it. And he basically has an easy switch in on you everytime you take out heracross. I've beaten some, lost some. Basically I struggle with consistency when I reached certain point on the ladder.

I'm done with baton passing heracross, i'm going to view other options.

 

[midend]

The main problem I have encountered using baton pass with Heracross is that if my opponent runs talonflame or pinsir, im pretty much screwed. I can set up rocks and try to phaze and all that but if the opponent is a good player it's hard to get rid of it. And he basically has an easy switch in on you everytime you take out heracross. I've beaten some, lost some. Basically I struggle with consistency when I reached certain point on the ladder.

I'm done with baton passing heracross, i'm going to view other options.

Sub is a good idea to take advantage of the switch in to hit with the appropriate move..i guess?

 

[ChicagoJones]

Classic Heracross with assault vest could be pretty damn bulky with his already-high spD stat.

Is there really any benefit to that over Heracrosscite though? AV means it can't SD or Bulk Up and gives it no form of recover. A mega stone has the advantage of boosting both defenses and unrestricted access to the movepool.

 

[Tressed]

Is there really any benefit to that over Heracrosscite though? AV means it can't SD or Bulk Up and gives it no form of recover. A mega stone has the advantage of boosting both defenses and unrestricted access to the movepool.

You get a bit higher special bulk, some more Speed, and Guts, which are all excellent arguments for an Assault Vest, and not using the Mega Stone is a huge plus.

 

[MegaMogwai]

Sub is a good idea to take advantage of the switch in to hit with the appropriate move..i guess?

I'm trying out Heracross with substitute. And if played right, it is DANGEROUS. Since Megacross forces so many switch outs, setting up a sub is easy, and then you pretty much get a free kill. I've paired him up with Vaporeon as a wish passer. I also use a scarf Excadrill for late game sweeping after Heracross does a ton of damage to the opp's team.

I think I finally understand that Megacross is not meant for sweeping. It's meant to obliterate stall and to weaken the opp's team so a fast sweeper can seal the deal.

At least that's how I currently see it.

 

[ChicagoJones]

You get a bit higher special bulk, some more Speed, and Guts, which are all excellent arguments for an Assault Vest, and not using the Mega Stone is a huge plus.

The plus being running a different mega on your team?

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

I'm trying out Heracross with substitute. And if played right, it is DANGEROUS. Since Megacross forces so many switch outs, setting up a sub is easy, and then you pretty much get a free kill. I've paired him up with Vaporeon as a wish passer. I also use a scarf Excadrill for late game sweeping after Heracross does a ton of damage to the opp's team.

I think I finally understand that Megacross is not meant for sweeping. It's meant to obliterate stall and to weaken the opp's team so a fast sweeper can seal the deal.

At least that's how I currently see it.

I havent used MegaCross in a while but I found that it kinda needs the coverage or SD to really break stuff, without EQ it's not getting passed Aegislash while it needs CC to get passed Skarmory, Pin Missile is the main stab and does things like OHKOing DeoD and 2HKOing even the bulkiest of Mega Venusaurs, while Rock Blast is needed to cover flying types other than Skarmory and Mandibuzz.

Substitute sounds cool in theory, but I fear the extra coverage is more beneficial to MegaCross.

 

[MegaMogwai]

I havent used MegaCross in a while but I found that it kinda needs the coverage or SD to really break stuff, without EQ it's not getting passed Aegislash while it needs CC to get passed Skarmory, Pin Missile is the main stab and does things like OHKOing DeoD and 2HKOing even the bulkiest of Mega Venusaurs, while Rock Blast is needed to cover flying types other than Skarmory and Mandibuzz.

Substitute sounds cool in theory, but I fear the extra coverage is more beneficial to MegaCross.

I run Pin Missile, Rock Blast and Earthquake. Gives me the best coverage. It can't break through skarmory. But it can break through Mandibuzz, Quagsire, Blissey, Chansey, Amoonguss, Hippowdon, etc. Pin Missile deals some serious damage. With a sub up, Heracross can beat almost any offensive threat too. I'm finding great success with him. I also paired him up with a priority tailwind user and its working out great.

I've gotten up to almost 1800 and i've only lost one game out of 8 I believe. I mention the rank to clarify that I've been having these matches relatively high in the ladder, meaning my opponents were decent players.

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

I run Pin Missile, Rock Blast and Earthquake. Gives me the best coverage. It can't break through skarmory. But it can break through Mandibuzz, Quagsire, Blissey, Chansey, Amoonguss, Hippowdon, etc. Pin Missile deals some serious damage. With a sub up, Heracross can beat almost any offensive threat too. I'm finding great success with him. I also paired him up with a priority tailwind user and its working out great.

I've gotten up to almost 1800 and i've only lost one game out of 8 I believe. I mention the rank to clarify that I've been having these matches relatively high in the ladder, meaning my opponents were decent players.

I guess that's definitely the best 3 move coverage you can get missing out on Skarmory does suck though as its a popular mon on stall.

If you got to 1800 in 8 matches that would have to be the old ladder in which 1800 wasn't really that high.

 

[MegaMogwai]

I guess that's definitely the best 3 move coverage you can get missing out on Skarmory does suck though as its a popular mon on stall.

If you got to 1800 in 8 matches that would have to be the old ladder in which 1800 wasn't really that high.

Nono I was already on the 1600s, getting up there in 8 matches is IMPOSSIBLE lol. What I meant to say is that all of my matches were against decent players.

 

[MegaMogwai]

Yep bulky Heracross is the way to go. I personally prefer using substitute but bringing Close Combat can also work out well. Though substitute Hera is a big threat imo.

Team synergy is crucial to using Megacross, I built a team with 2 mons with priority t-wave, a wish passer, a scarfer and it is doing extremely good for me. I also got priority tailwind just in case. Basically once I para an offensive mon, its dead. I bring heracross on something it can easily kill like a Heatran, force the switch and set up the sub. If I set up a sub, somethings going down. Then my wish passer/heal bell THINGY supports the hell out of him.

It may seem like a big hassle but it truly works well together. I do not fear mega char nor gyarados at all since once they are paralyzed they are useless. And this is easy with 2 pranksters.

The spread I run on my Heracross is bulky. Just enough speed to outrun defensive heatran and any uninvested base 80s (venusaur, mandibuzz, togekiss, etc). I had a wifi match were Megacross took an Icicle Crash and a Waterfall from Mamoswine and Gyarados respectively, he lived the combination of both and proceeded to knock them out. THE BULK IS REAL.

 

[assurance]

Yep bulky Heracross is the way to go. I personally prefer using substitute but bringing Close Combat can also work out well. Though substitute Hera is a big threat imo.

Word although sub + cc also is an option because the sub is not really necessary to stay many moves but to can't be attacked one turn so the drop isn't so bad for megacross.
I'm testing a team atm which is nearly the same than yours made of a wish-passer and tw-support. A problem for megacross is flyingspam defently so pokémon like rotom-w or zapdos work very well with it. Substitute is a great move helping megacross to hit pokémon it could not touch otherwise. I love it to setup on Gliscor because it's absolutly helpless if megacross has a sub (except acrobatic-sets, lol ..) and thats why I play enough speed for 72 Spd Gliscor.
With Rock Blast, Pin Missle and Close Combat it has a great offensive coverage but has to watch out for Aegislash. Thats why Heatran + Rotom-W + Megacross is a great core combined with a wish-passer, optimally clefable or togekiss for taking fighting moves.

Last time I laddered with this team and first subbed megacross my opponent was totally surprised followed by a ragequit only 3 rounds later where megacross OHKO'd 3 Pokémon of his slow team, haha.

 

[Flamebot]

So how viable is passing speed boost and maybe subs to this thing?

 

[tditdatdwt]

DW? I'm pretty sure that the dream world isn't in the game.. Maybe ''Hidden Ability''?

 

[MegaMogwai]

Word although sub + cc also is an option because the sub is not really necessary to stay many moves but to can't be attacked one turn so the drop isn't so bad for megacross.
I'm testing a team atm which is nearly the same than yours made of a wish-passer and tw-support. A problem for megacross is flyingspam defently so pokémon like rotom-w or zapdos work very well with it. Substitute is a great move helping megacross to hit pokémon it could not touch otherwise. I love it to setup on Gliscor because it's absolutly helpless if megacross has a sub (except acrobatic-sets, lol ..) and thats why I play enough speed for 72 Spd Gliscor.
With Rock Blast, Pin Missle and Close Combat it has a great offensive coverage but has to watch out for Aegislash. Thats why Heatran + Rotom-W + Megacross is a great core combined with a wish-passer, optimally clefable or togekiss for taking fighting moves.

Last time I laddered with this team and first subbed megacross my opponent was totally surprised followed by a ragequit only 3 rounds later where megacross OHKO'd 3 Pokémon of his slow team, haha.

That's why I run Thundurus, it can take a quick attack from a pinsir and other things and it gets access to prankster t-wave, I also run Scarf Excadrill to take out the Pinsirs, Talonflames, Char Y ect. Even though like you already know, if Hera is behind a sub, those 3 pokes will go down.

I personally love setting up a sub at the beginning on a rotom-w, since when not mega evolved he outspeeds with the little speed investment I have. They always go for will-o-wisp. I don't mega evolve right away and I basically can get up to 2 free kills. This thing's dangerous.

It's an interesting point you make with Gliscor, I personally am going to keep my spread though, cause there have been many situations where I barely live a hit due to the bulk investment I have, but it's an interesting point regardless.

I think Heatran is one of the best training partners Heracross can have to be honest. I run Vaporeon as a wish passer, with Heal Bell as well.

LOL I get you dude, yesterday I had a battle where Heracross killed of 4 pokes (Mamoswine, Gyarados, Gardevoir and Slowbro), it was so fucking awesome lol. This guy has become my fave mega. :-)

EDIT.- I meant to say TEAM partners, mixing up MMA and pokemon lol :P

 

[Red Cat]

Are there any hard counters to Mega Heracross which work well on stall? I understand that a big reason people use Mega Heracross is to rip apart stall teams, but I would like to not have to resort to using a revenge killer to deal with this thing if possible.

 

[Aragorn the King]

Are there any hard counters to Mega Heracross which work well on stall? I understand that a big reason people use Mega Heracross is to rip apart stall teams, but I would like to not have to resort to using a revenge killer to deal with this thing if possible.

Clefable, Landorus-T, Gliscor, Sylveon, and Azumarill all work well.

 

[Consignia]

Are there any hard counters to Mega Heracross which work well on stall? I understand that a big reason people use Mega Heracross is to rip apart stall teams, but I would like to not have to resort to using a revenge killer to deal with this thing if possible.

Gliscor's your best bet. Standard Gliscor beats every variant of Heracross except Sub + boosting move +2 attacks (very very rare), if you run Taunt then you beat every variant period. Lando-T doesn't take much damage from standard Heracross but struggles to hurt it back, so it's very vulnerable to being worn down or set up on by boosting Heracross.

Clefable and Sylveon are kinda shaky counters since they're 2hkoed by Rock Blast with Stealth Rock up (assuming Unaware Clefable here since this is stall) or any prior damage. Azumarill can't take two hits from Rock Blast either. They're all slower than Mega Heracross too.

pretty much: when I have a Mega Heracross team, the only stall that worries me is Gliscor stall (since Hera is worthless) and stall with Skarmory + Aegislash (since I really have to work the 50/50s to get things done, Quake 2hkos Aegi and CC 2hkos skarm but it's not hard to get one in on an immunity).

 

[Aragorn the King]

Clefable and Sylveon are kinda shaky counters since they're 2hkoed by Rock Blast with Stealth Rock up (assuming Unaware Clefable here since this is stall) or any prior damage. Azumarill can't take two hits from Rock Blast either. They're all slower than Mega Heracross too.

What?

252+ Atk Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 130-155 (32.9 - 39.3%) -- approx. 2.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sylveon: 140-170 (35.5 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

They both handle Rock Blasts decently, even after SR. They're also the only defensive mons that can seriously damage it.

 

[Consignia]

What?

252+ Atk Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 130-155 (32.9 - 39.3%) -- approx. 2.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sylveon: 140-170 (35.5 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

They both handle Rock Blasts decently, even after SR. They're also the only defensive mons that can seriously damage it.

You're calcing regular Heracross, not Mega Heracross.

252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 175-210 (44.4 - 53.2%) -- approx. 93.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sylveon: 190-225 (48.2 - 57.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Protect makes it a little easier to tank the hits (though I'm pretty sure Sylveon still dies unless Hera rolls min/min) but yeah, you'd really need Clefable to be on absolutely full health to think about coming in on Heracross.

 

[Aragorn the King]

You're calcing regular Heracross, not Mega Heracross.

252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 175-210 (44.4 - 53.2%) -- approx. 93.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sylveon: 190-225 (48.2 - 57.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Protect makes it a little easier to tank the hits (though I'm pretty sure Sylveon still dies unless Hera rolls min/min) but yeah, you'd really need Clefable to be on absolutely full health to think about coming in on Heracross.

Oops. There's the problem. Derp.

Still, Pin Missile and Close Combat are usually the moves used, so they've a good chance of beating it. But the Ground Flying's are obviously the best.

 

[Red Cat]

So basically, Gliscor is the only hard counter since Lando-T can't do anything back and the fairies are 2HKOed by Rock Blast or OHKOed if Mega Heracross is at +2.

 

[skies]

After a Swords Dance:
+1 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 225-270 (58.9 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
So...
EDIT: Even Pin Missile 2HKOes after Stealth Rock.

 

[Aragorn the King]

After a Swords Dance:
+1 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 225-270 (58.9 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
So...
EDIT: Even Pin Missile 2HKOes after Stealth Rock.

Woah. Although, it is rather difficult to fit SD on your moveset. It pretty much has 4 moves it needs, unlike you dgaf about Slash.

 

[MegaMogwai]

Woah. Although, it is rather difficult to fit SD on your moveset. It pretty much has 4 moves it needs, unlike you dgaf about Slash.

Swords Dance is actually not hard to fit in, you can change it for Close Combat. The only problem that comes with that is the fact that you will end up having a difficult time with Skarmory. Having said that, Pin Missile + Rock Blast + Earthquake provides the best coverage.