Here Comes The Sun!

[Benlisted]

I strongly disagree with this. A lot of supportive Pokemon for Hail teams happen to be problematic for most Sunny Day team members, such as Tentacruel, Mamoswine, or Heatran. I'd also like to point out Abomasnow has useful utility to the team, while Ninetales is often deadweight frailty.

I think he was referring to Abomasnow himself, who very much dislikes coming into any form of Fire Attack in Sun. Hail is currently so rare that it is less of a common threat than the other weathers, but a threat nonetheless.

Does it really help to have a pokemon that can eliminate other weather changers?

Given that if you just take a load of grass types with chlorophyll and some fires, literally the entire sun team can easily be TTar weak, especially if it is one of the new MixTars everyone's running. Hippo is less of an issue given he is not too offensive, but he can be difficult to KO. Toed meanwhile is easy to get rid of given your large amount of grass types, in most cases, just be careful of Ice Beam and Hypnosis. So yeah, it is important to be able to counter them.

I really like the Goruggo idea actually. I'm definitely going to try that out. I've been running a balanced sun team, leaning on the defensive side with SpecsCharizard + CBHihidaruma occasionally coming in and blasting something to death. I've always been annoyed when my stuff gets spun and snatches away OHKOs from Charizard :(

I tested Goruggo - the Anti-lead set with max HP and Atk. It's a pretty amazing spinblocker in Sun actually, given most spinning Starmies will run Tbolt to hit Burungeru rather than Ice Beam. Incidentally, he survived Shanderaa's Shadow Ball with around 8% and proceeded to OHKO with EQ when the lead matchups were as mentioned, which is pretty awesome. Make him Brave, with 13 Spe IVs to underspeed all 31 IV Roobushin and Machamps who may wish to Payback him into oblivion. Of course he can barely stop any leads getting a single move off, but if you're confident of the spin then fire away.

I've run Lead Forretress to spin away hazards my opponent's lead may be setting up, set hazards of his own, and then volt change to ninetales or whoever I need at the time since he is slow. He would have to be my favorite and most effective lead thanks to the new sturdy.

Lead Donphan has worked for me as well, but lacks volt change and doesn't grant me free switches. A better lead I've used would have to be lead deoxys-s. As usual, he is perfect. I run a set with magic coat, dual screens, and taunt/stealth rock. Jolly with just 96 speed outspeeds all common taunt leads allowing me to spend the extra EVs into making him bulky. He's also useless outside of being a lead, but he's still pretty amazing.

I can attest to lead Forry's amazingness. The only issue is all the lead TTars not setting SR and instead running Fire Blast... Anyway with Gyro Ball he has utility against TTar and can hit speed boosting things pretty hard in a pinch as well.

 

[Moriarty]

I've been leading with choice scarf sazandora to good effect. I U-turn out against almost every lead and go to ninetails to set up sun. Most of the Time an Ice move or a Fighting move is coming in and makes getting my (bulky) ninetails in fairly easy. The fighting moves are also resisted by Urugamosu and Venasaur. Late game after my Sazandora can come back and sweep entire teams with its large SpA, Choice Scarf, and boosted flamethrowers. Especially if the other team has been force to sacrafice its fire resist to stop a sweep by Urugamosu.

I don't think Sun-Stall would work to well with grass types and giga-drain. Your boosting SE moves against them. If Sun-Stall were to work it would need pokemon that benifet from the removal of the water weakness. Fire Rock Ground, Unfortunately Ground types are simply trading water weakness for a Fire weakness. Besides Arcanine and Moltres fire-types don't have the bulk to pull of stall and moltres is super weak to SR. Rock Types Simply have too many weakness.

However I don't think its not worth trying. Arcanine, Sand Power Hippodown, Solid Rock Rhyperior are probably were I would start testing. Aerodactyl might even be made usefull. Although its stats look bad Camerupt has the exact right typing + Solid Rock to be increadibly bulky in sun, and its stab is boosted. Heh, now I really want to try this.

 

[Benlisted]

I don't think Sun-Stall would work to well with grass types and giga-drain. Your boosting SE moves against them. If Sun-Stall were to work it would need pokemon that benifet from the removal of the water weakness. Fire Rock Ground, Unfortunately Ground types are simply trading water weakness for a Fire weakness. Besides Arcanine and Moltres fire-types don't have the bulk to pull of stall and moltres is super weak to SR. Rock Types Simply have too many weakness.

However I don't think its not worth trying. Arcanine, Sand Power Hippodown, Solid Rock Rhyperior are probably were I would start testing. Aerodactyl might even be made usefull. Although its stats look bad Camerupt has the exact right typing + Solid Rock to be increadibly bulky in sun, and its stab is boosted. Heh, now I really want to try this.

I tried a Sun-Stall team consisting of Jumpluff, Meganium, Ninetales, Goruugu, Heatran, and Forretress.

Essentially I felt like it almost worked, but simply died to fast due to my lack of recovery. A wish user could really do wonders but I cannot fit it anywhere.

Forry is needed for Spikes+spin, Goruugu for spinblocking duties, heatran for Fire absorbtion and SR, Tales for Sun, Pluff for Encore and subseeding, and Meganium for phazing and screens. I'll have to try mixing it up.

What I have found with Sun and Rain stall is that they both hate having to use their inducer - "wasting" a teamslot that could be better used by something else.

 

[Gabe]

I tried a Sun-Stall team consisting of Jumpluff, Meganium, Ninetales, Goruugu, Heatran, and Forretress.

Essentially I felt like it almost worked, but simply died to fast due to my lack of recovery. A wish user could really do wonders but I cannot fit it anywhere.

Forry is needed for Spikes+spin, Goruugu for spinblocking duties, heatran for Fire absorbtion and SR, Tales for Sun, Pluff for Encore and subseeding, and Meganium for phazing and screens. I'll have to try mixing it up.

What I have found with Sun and Rain stall is that they both hate having to use their inducer - "wasting" a teamslot that could be better used by something else.

Remove Meganium for Vaporeon, you lose screens but gain a water immunity and with HP Electric Gyara is no problem.

 

[Benlisted]

Remove Meganium for Vaporeon, you lose screens but gain a water immunity and with HP Electric Gyara is no problem.

Will do as soon as I get back on PO. Huge HP wishes = awesome. I suspect my mistake was sticking as many things to abuse sun on the team as possible.

The only issue with this is that I will have to force switches much more effectively unless I give Heatran Roar.. Can anyone suggest a good set whilst keeping SR if possible? (My Forry doesn't really want it as without EQ he dies to the Shanderaa everywhere on DW)

 

[alphatron]

You could always give Vaporeon roar instead. I doubted it at first but Vaporeon is actually a good suggestion. I've been running this ever since I saw an enemy blaziken on a rain dance team (kicked blissey off immeadiately. Huge wishes were not worth the set up bait). If Vaporeon will be the one phasing, heatran can keep his set.

I've been using this ninetales recently and holy crap, I love it.

Ninetales @ balloon/leftovers
EVs: 4 sp. def/252 spd/252 sp. atk
Nature: Timid

Overheat
Power Swap
Protect
Disable/Roar

A spin on a very set I saw posted in this thread earlier. Overheat-Power swap is perfection. Today I was trapped by a CM shandera whom I allowed to get to +6. Then I power swapped it my -6 sp. atk and finished it off with overheat. Protect/disable are there mainly to scout for attacks and find the appropriate switch in or just stop your opponent from using a certain move. I've found roar a bit more effective at times though, even with Ninetales' general lack of bulk. The EVs can be altered any way you see fit. I only run that because I find max speed on Ninetales necessary in order to compete.

I saw you mentioned Tangrowth in another thread, Ben. I like the idea and I want to try it out. Unfortunately I'm not too keen on 4 moveslot syndrome.

 

[sqwat500]

ive used

Creselia@ Light Clay
252 HP / 148 Def / 108 SpD
~Light Screen
~Psycic
~Reflect
~Lunar Dance

ninetales @ Iron ball
252 Defense/252 Special Defense
~Will-o-wisp
~toxic
~fire blast
~Solar Beam

Charizard@ Life orb
252 SpA/252 SpE
~Fireblast
~Solar Beam
~Air Slash
~Dragon Pulse

Venusaur@ Life Orb
252 Attack/252 Speed
~Power Whip
~Swords Dance
~Earthquake
~Sleep Powder

Venusaur@ Life Orb
252 Special Attack/252 Speed
~Solar Beam
~Growth
~Sludge Bomb
~Sleep Powder

Sazandora@ Choice Specs
252 SpA/252 SpE
~draco meteor
~surf
~fire blast
~dark pulse

Staraptor@ Choice Band
252 Attack/252 SpE
~B-bird
~close combat
~U-turn
~filler

Infernape@ Life Orb
64 Attack/128 SpA/252 Speed
~Close Combat
~Fire Blast
~Mach Punch
~Grass Knot

Wargle@ Choice Scarf
252 Speed/252 attack
~crush claw
~brave bird
~superpower
~shadow claw



all to various degreese of effect in sunny day

 

[Benlisted]

You could always give Vaporeon roar instead. I doubted it at first but Vaporeon is actually a good suggestion. I've been running this ever since I saw an enemy blaziken on a rain dance team (kicked blissey off immeadiately. Huge wishes were not worth the set up bait). If Vaporeon will be the one phasing, heatran can keep his set.

I have very seriously considered giving him Roar. However, the current Heatran set I run is a Lefties SpDef variant with Fire Blast/SR/Toxic/Roar, which is working incredibly well; the only change I'm considering is SR to Forry as I have moved from DW to wifi and hence evade Shanderaa.

Adding Roar to Vappy I am debating. HP Elec is farily crucial for Gyara and coverage against other waters, and Ice Beam is one of my only weapons against dragons. Wish ofc is essential, leaving Protect, which I really do not want to replace, given that Vappy's own survival is essential to her crucial healing the rest of my team. I may try Roar over HP or Protect, but am not looking forward to it.

Ninetales @ balloon/leftovers
EVs: 4 sp. def/252 spd/252 sp. atk
Nature: Timid

Overheat
Power Swap
Protect
Disable/Roar

A spin on a very set I saw posted in this thread earlier. Overheat-Power swap is perfection. Today I was trapped by a CM shandera whom I allowed to get to +6. Then I power swapped it my -6 sp. atk and finished it off with overheat. Protect/disable are there mainly to scout for attacks and find the appropriate switch in or just stop your opponent from using a certain move. I've found roar a bit more effective at times though, even with Ninetales' general lack of bulk. The EVs can be altered any way you see fit. I only run that because I find max speed on Ninetales necessary in order to compete.

I saw you mentioned Tangrowth in another thread, Ben. I like the idea and I want to try it out. Unfortunately I'm not too keen on 4 moveslot syndrome.

Your Tales set looks very interesting. I ran max Spe/HP with Protect/Disable/Toxic or WoW/Fire Blast when I was using my balloon set. I may just have to alter them to Overheat/Power Swap given people's tendencies to grab boosts on her, as well as Toxic or WoW's mediocre usage on an offensive team. I'm even considering it for my Sun Stall team, or some variant thereof, it looks that good.

Tangrowth is both an effective Sun sweeper - only let down being his tendency to die to scarfers - and staller. When sweeping he can run any degree of physical/special splits and coverage options, letting him fit into a lot of teams.

Stalling is what I'm currently fascinated by, in fact I've even reserved his analysis lol, anyway I'll post pretty much what I did there so those in this thread can see it:

Tangrowth@Lefties
Leaf Guard, Bold
See below for EVs
Giga Drain/HP Fire
Leech Seed
Synthesis/Toxic/Ingrain/Substitute/Sleep Powder
Amnesia

Preferably with T-Spikes support. EVs go into HP/ Defences(bias to physical) unless you run Ingrain over Synthesis and Giga Drain, in which case you can try Big Root along with less HP EVs. Not quite sure what yet though.


Tangrowth@Lefties
Chlorophyll, Bold
252HP/248Spe/4Def
Giga Drain/HP Fire
Leech Seed
Synthesis/Sleep Powder/Toxic/Amnesia/Ingrain
Substitute

Preferred options are first - Sub over Amnesia to block status and allow more healing. 248Spe beats + base 130s, and 252HP makes 101 Subs.

As you can see from the multiple options, there is somewhat of a moveslot syndrome and need for Sun and T-Spikes support. It can function reasonably well out of Sun, however (particularly with Sub). I don't include Regeneration due to it being just as easily abused on any team, not just Sun.

 

[alphatron]

Oh yeah. Just for the heck of it.

Sun boosted Timid Choice Scarf Typhlosion's flash fire Eruption percentages.

Vs. 252/0 bold standard Blissey: 52.2% - 61.8%
Vs. 252/0 standard Bold Suicune: 52.7% - 62.4%
Vs. 188/68 Bold Vaporeon: 52.7% - 62.1%
Vs. 0/0 Choice scarf revenge shandera: 101.1% - 119.5%
Vs: 252/136 Standard support Tentacruel: 46.2% - 54.4%
Vs: 240/52 Relaxed Swampert: 62.3% - 73.3%
Vs. 252/252 Careful Swampert: 46% - 54.5%
Vs. 252/252 Bold Milotic: 50.5% - 59.6%
Vs. 40/252 Calm Lanturn: 51.6% - 60.8%
Vs. 252/80 Bold Slowbro: 67% - 79.2%
Vs. 252/0 Bold Slowbro: 73.6% - 86.8%
Vs. 252/104 physically defensive hippodown: 88.1% - 103.8%(Done without applying sun for obvious reasons)
Vs. 252/252 specially defensive hippo: 75% - 88.6%

Just food for thought. Shandera may not be a wall, but it's listed because I found it funny when they attempted to revenge me after I killed something slower than non scarfed Typhlosion. Unlike Hihidaruma, he's a powerhouse that dosn't kill himself after 2-3 attacks. However, unlike Hihidaruma he lacks u-turn, and good moves outside out his select few.

Unfortunately for him, fire attacks are about all he can switch in to. Outside of Eruption and Overheat, he most likely isn't doing much. Some versions of Tyranitar live through focus blast and support heatrans live through HP Ground...With good prediction and a way to work around his counters, he's been an amazing damage dealer. While I would never recommend going modest (getting outsped and OHKO'd by Lucario's Close Combat is cringe worthy), you may opt for choice specs if you solely wish to deal more damage, turning a few 2HKo's into OHKOs.

Tangrowth@Lefties
Leaf Guard, Bold
See below for EVs
Giga Drain/HP Fire
Leech Seed
Synthesis/Toxic/Ingrain/Substitute/Sleep Powder
Amnesia

Preferably with T-Spikes support. EVs go into HP/ Defences(bias to physical) unless you run Ingrain over Synthesis and Giga Drain, in which case you can try Big Root along with less HP EVs. Not quite sure what yet though.


Tangrowth@Lefties
Chlorophyll, Bold
252HP/248Spe/4Def
Giga Drain/HP Fire
Leech Seed
Synthesis/Sleep Powder/Toxic/Amnesia/Ingrain
Substitute

Preferred options are first - Sub over Amnesia to block status and allow more healing. 248Spe beats + base 130s, and 252HP makes 101 Subs.

Aren't synthesis and giga drain a bit redundant? Or does it help to alternate between the two(as tangrowth won't be healing much from hp drains since he has high hp himself.)?

Even so, I'll be attempting to use both of these sets. Most likely, I'll stick to the prior one since I see choice scarf everywhere I go. Perhaps enough sp. def EVs can be put into tangrowth to allow him to live through certain special attacks as well? His special defense is quite bad and even after one amnesia boost, he is still 2HkO'd by certain unfortunate things.

 

[Benlisted]

Just food for thought. Shandera may not be a wall, but it's listed because I found it funny when they attempted to revenge me after I killed something slower than non scarfed Typhlosion. Unlike Hihidaruma, he's a powerhouse that dosn't kill himself after 2-3 attacks. However, unlike Hihidaruma he lacks u-turn, and good moves outside out his select few.

Unfortunately for him, fire attacks are about all he can switch in to. Outside of Eruption and Overheat, he most likely isn't doing much. Some versions of Tyranitar live through focus blast and support heatrans live through HP Ground...With good prediction and a way to work around his counters, he's been an amazing damage dealer. While I would never recommend going modest (getting outsped and OHKO'd by Lucario's Close Combat is cringe worthy), you may opt for choice specs if you solely wish to deal more damage, turning a few 2HKo's into OHKOs.

His movepool is somewhat of an issue, but to improve HP coverage Solarbeam or Focus Blast can be used. Solarbeam I tend to not use, but it is an option as during late game sweeping of a Rain team having lost its Toed it may be very helpful (especially VS Kingdra). Fire Blast as a backup to Eruption when having lost health (especially if using Blaze) is very useful, however. For switching in I reckon slow U-Turners or something dying are the best opportunity you have (or something Encored). I can confirm its effectiveness, however. It's like ScarfZard and ScarfHihi but not as suicidal.

Aren't synthesis and giga drain a bit redundant? Or does it help to alternate between the two(as tangrowth won't be healing much from hp drains since he has high hp himself.)?

Even so, I'll be attempting to use both of these sets. Most likely, I'll stick to the prior one since I see choice scarf everywhere I go. Perhaps enough sp. def EVs can be put into tangrowth to allow him to live through certain special attacks as well? His special defense is quite bad and even after one amnesia boost, he is still 2HKO'd by certain unfortunate things.

They are somewhat redundant - my reasoning was that once Amnesiaing and Leech Seeding something had been done, things like you say that can still 2HKO can often easily be stalled out with 80+% recovery per turn even if they resist Giga Drain. Similarly, as T-Spikes and Seed damage adds up, anything trying to boost up to take you out will essentially be unable to unless it can OHKO due to the huge recovery. Like you say though, in part due to the redundancy of recovery, HP Fire is very viable to hit everything immune to either Seed or poison for SE (except poisons) including Nattorei who utterly walls you.

Anyway, the benefits of the Chlorophyll set are functioning better out of Sun, as well as evading Taunts somewhat by being able to hit the opponent with Sleep or Seed before they get you. He does reach 300SpDef at +2 with minimal investment, and close to 400HP too, which isn't bad. Don't forget that you can carry on boosting to reduce the damage taken from a Lati for instance.

 

[He Who Must Not Be Named]

Oh yeah. Just for the heck of it.

Sun boosted Timid Choice Scarf Typhlosion's flash fire Eruption percentages.

Vs. 252/0 bold standard Blissey: 52.2% - 61.8%
Vs. 252/0 standard Bold Suicune: 52.7% - 62.4%
Vs. 188/68 Bold Vaporeon: 52.7% - 62.1%
Vs. 0/0 Choice scarf revenge shandera: 101.1% - 119.5%
Vs: 252/136 Standard support Tentacruel: 46.2% - 54.4%
Vs: 240/52 Relaxed Swampert: 62.3% - 73.3%
Vs. 252/252 Careful Swampert: 46% - 54.5%
Vs. 252/252 Bold Milotic: 50.5% - 59.6%
Vs. 40/252 Calm Lanturn: 51.6% - 60.8%
Vs. 252/80 Bold Slowbro: 67% - 79.2%
Vs. 252/0 Bold Slowbro: 73.6% - 86.8%
Vs. 252/104 physically defensive hippodown: 88.1% - 103.8%(Done without applying sun for obvious reasons)
Vs. 252/252 specially defensive hippo: 75% - 88.6%

Just food for thought. Shandera may not be a wall, but it's listed because I found it funny when they attempted to revenge me after I killed something slower than non scarfed Typhlosion. Unlike Hihidaruma, he's a powerhouse that dosn't kill himself after 2-3 attacks. However, unlike Hihidaruma he lacks u-turn, and good moves outside out his select few.

Unfortunately for him, fire attacks are about all he can switch in to. Outside of Eruption and Overheat, he most likely isn't doing much. Some versions of Tyranitar live through focus blast and support heatrans live through HP Ground...With good prediction and a way to work around his counters, he's been an amazing damage dealer. While I would never recommend going modest (getting outsped and OHKO'd by Lucario's Close Combat is cringe worthy), you may opt for choice specs if you solely wish to deal more damage, turning a few 2HKo's into OHKOs.

I never thought that Typhlosion's Eruption would be so powerful! 8l

 

[alphatron]

Anyway, the benefits of the Chlorophyll set are functioning better out of Sun, as well as evading Taunts somewhat by being able to hit the opponent with Sleep or Seed before they get you. He does reach 300SpDef at +2 with minimal investment, and close to 400HP too, which isn't bad. Don't forget that you can carry on boosting to reduce the damage taken from a Lati for instance.

I'm realizing this now, but he is indeed taunt bait. Well, with t-spikes support tangrowth has been a great team member so far. I've also tried out Evo stone tangela and I managed to use it to decent effect. It lacks the hp, but heals a ridiculous amount of hp per turn in combination with leech seed and giga drain. I maxed out my sp. def EVs to allow me to easily shrug off SE ice beams and the like. I've also played with ingrain on both tangrowth and tangela. With team previews on the wifi ladder, it was easier to use. But on the DW ladder, I fear using this move due to the number of fire type pokemon running around. Then again, shandera keeps tangrowth from doing too much in DW anyway.

In general as far as sun stall goes I have been having problems with rain stall teams and sand teams in general. Primarily scarfed mixed tyranitar. Too bad haryama cannot learn rapid spin. He'd be the answer to all my problems with that pokemon.

 

[Benlisted]

Just food for thought. Shandera may not be a wall, but it's listed because I found it funny when they attempted to revenge me after I killed something slower than non scarfed Typhlosion. Unlike Hihidaruma, he's a powerhouse that dosn't kill himself after 2-3 attacks. However, unlike Hihidaruma he lacks u-turn, and good moves outside out his select few.

Unfortunately for him, fire attacks are about all he can switch in to. Outside of Eruption and Overheat, he most likely isn't doing much. Some versions of Tyranitar live through focus blast and support heatrans live through HP Ground...With good prediction and a way to work around his counters, he's been an amazing damage dealer. While I would never recommend going modest (getting outsped and OHKO'd by Lucario's Close Combat is cringe worthy), you may opt for choice specs if you solely wish to deal more damage, turning a few 2HKo's into OHKOs.

Speaking of this, my Scarf Typhlosion has really been tearing it up recently now I'm using my offensive Sun teams again. With preview you can fairly easily eliminate Heatran (I use CC Arcanine) and predict TTar switchins to fire off a FB (if Arcanine hasn't dealt with him already). Incidentally, his eruption did around 25-35% to a freaking Kingdra in Sun, a 4x resist!

With the right forward planning it easily pulls off late game sweeps, though typically I use it as a damage dealer midgame when I get a free switch from a KO or a Volt Change from Forry. He comes in, proceeds to fire off immensely powerful attacks, then gets the hell out if something that walls him comes in. Burungeru likes to do so (setup bait for Venusaur), as does Politoed (HP Grass).

Main issues are getting him in. SR and hazards don't matter so much if you run Blaze and FB, but attacks often OHKO him unless resisted. U-turners really help here. Also, Chomp is a horrendous threat given its ability to hide its possible scarf quite well as well as threaten with SD should you switch out. He often ends up claiming Typh's life, sadly.

 

[alphatron]

On the dreamworld ladder, I run a lead scarf genosect with u-turn, a sazandora with u-turn, and a forry with volt change. Those all seem to be the best way to bring him in. Genosect and Forry are fodder for fire attacks, so I usually get a flash fire boost. I can see Blaze working out for him very well, but the problem with Ty is that he gets hit and dies as opposed to getting hit and being near death.

You're absolutely right about Garchomp. Then again, that thing is scary for sun teams as overall. My go to guy was usually jumpluff. The SD ones got encored. The Scarf users on the other hand are often smart enough to simply use stone edge, so I don't bother switching to Jumpluff for those.

By the way, when messing around with my sun stall team, I realized that I needed something. I needed a phaser whose typing would benefit the team as a whole. One who didn't simply lose to status, could take rock, water, ice, and fire attacks. One who could have their weaknesses covered by other team members. I'll be honest, it didn't take me too long to find him

That's right. The wrath himself. I ran a specially defensive set with bulk up, rest, sleep talk, and overhead throw. Having only one attack seems like it would be a problem. But no! Even in the sun, this guy forces fire types out, manhandles unboosted attack blazikens, coincidentally resists both of Urgamoth's STAB (>_>), and is resistant to Stealth rock itself.

Paired alongside a pursuiter, he's been great. Except for when sleep talk chooses rest, but I can't really complain about that. With sleep talk, he's either boosting his defense or using overhead throw before slower opponents (I run 8 speed EVs to outrun Skarm when not sleeping). In fact, I'm thinking of transferring him to a slightly more offensive team. He'll work alongside my subseed/momento jumpluff and MAYBE houndoom since I need a pursuiter. Scarf waruvial maybe?

For other defensive phasers, I suppose there is Milotic since her defense is boosted while sleeping. I haven't tried her out yet though. There's also Zuruzukin since he has higher defenses and dragon tail. You also may not have to run sleep talk since he gets shed skin. Weak to fighting sucks though but there are ways around that.

 

[IcyMan28]

^Poliwrath is actually a great choice, especially if you run Swift Swim to take advantage of opposing rain should the weather change.

As far as Milotic goes, I'd imagine that a ResTalk phazer set works equally as, if not better than, Gyara. Marvel Scale is constant (whereas Intimidate only works when you switch in), and she has higher special defense and lacks a SR weakness. Gyara DOES have a stronger Dragon Tail over her, though, as well as a fighting resist.

 

[Benlisted]

On the dreamworld ladder, I run a lead scarf genosect with u-turn, a sazandora with u-turn, and a forry with volt change. Those all seem to be the best way to bring him in. Genosect and Forry are fodder for fire attacks, so I usually get a flash fire boost. I can see Blaze working out for him very well, but the problem with Ty is that he gets hit and dies as opposed to getting hit and being near death.

Wow, awesome scouting ability right there. Reseting Sun must be pretty easy for you too. But yeah very good synergy with them too I must say. Blaze still works okay for me, getting T-Spiked, Spiked and SRd occasionally helps bring his HP down, as does priority, but I would've preferred FF.

You're absolutely right about Garchomp. Then again, that thing is scary for sun teams as overall. My go to guy was usually jumpluff. The SD ones got encored. The Scarf users on the other hand are often smart enough to simply use stone edge, so I don't bother switching to Jumpluff for those.

Garchomp is thankfully walled pretty effectively by Forry if he lacks Fire Fang, and generally he can be sacced if you need to take a hit badly. In any case, most chlorophyllers thankfully outspeed him with the right EVs, so a neutral Grass move (preferably special) generally KOs.

By the way, when messing around with my sun stall team, I realized that I needed something. I needed a phaser whose typing would benefit the team as a whole. One who didn't simply lose to status, could take rock, water, ice, and fire attacks. One who could have their weaknesses covered by other team members. I'll be honest, it didn't take me too long to find him

That's right. The wrath himself. I ran a specially defensive set with bulk up, rest, sleep talk, and overhead throw. Having only one attack seems like it would be a problem. But no! Even in the sun, this guy forces fire types out, manhandles unboosted attack blazikens, coincidentally resists both of Urgamoth's STAB (>_>), and is resistant to SE itself.

Paired alongside a pursuiter, he's been great. Except for when sleep talk chooses rest, but I can't really complain about that. With sleep talk, he's either boosting his defense or using overhead throw before slower opponents (I run 8 speed EVs to outrun Skarm when not sleeping). In fact, I'm thinking of transferring him to a slightly more offensive team. He'll work alongside my subseed/momento jumpluff and MAYBE houndoom since I need a pursuiter. Scarf waruvial maybe?

In all honesty I have no idea how you came up with this guy quickly but it seems pretty epic. My only concern is that with Rest lasting 3 turns, can he survive? I suppose things trying to setup get phazed back out, but hard hitters seem like they'd be problematic. His synergy seems fantastic though, as does not having his only STAB neutered by Sun. I may try a Regeneration Slowbro/King since they learn fire moves, lol at Blaziken and are generally bulky as hell. Don't do much in the way of team support though aside from maybe status spreading.

For other defensive phasers, I suppose there is Milotic since her defense is boosted while sleeping. I haven't tried her out yet though. There's also Zuruzukin since he has higher defenses and dragon tail. You also may not have to run sleep talk since he gets shed skin. Weak to fighting sucks though but there are ways around that.

Both nice suggestions, especially since the typical Sun abusers you'd think of lack phazing capabilities. I'm still running Heatran/Vappy as phazers and it works reasonably well.

 

[alphatron]

Revengers or sweepers are indeed a problem for Poliwrath. If you've ever seen those LO Encourage special Randorusus, I mean for things on that scale. Otherwise, Poliwrath can take physical hits and nuetral special hits relatively well.

Slowbro/king both sounds and is awesome. He doesn't do much in the support department as you already said, as you won't be needing T-wave and you probably don't want to spend a moveslot on yawn. I'd try him out again if Tyranitar wasn't a rampant monster.

 

[Benlisted]

Revengers or sweepers are indeed a problem for Poliwrath. If you've ever seen those LO Encourage special Randorusus, I mean for things on that scale. Otherwise, Poliwrath can take physical hits and nuetral special hits relatively well.

Slowbro/king both sounds and is awesome. He doesn't do much in the support department as you already said, as you won't be needing T-wave and you probably don't want to spend a moveslot on yawn. I'd try him out again if Tyranitar wasn't a rampant monster.

Jesus that thing gets Encourage? Thank god it isn't released yet... Does he get Mach Punch at all? Priority is so valuable this Gen that it could have some utility on him if he has Wish support.

Well, spreading status to fliers may be useful I suppose, as is the powerful Ice Beam and Psychic. And T-Wave may be of some use to Sunstall to hit those immune to poison, but yeah in general not great. As for TTar, well there's always Fail Blast to catch him on the switchin...

 

[GravityZero]

Lack of Mebukijika in the OP made me laugh.

Mebu is Sun's version of Dory, only with less Attack/worse STAB but better coverage and supporting techs, as well as Leech Seed Immune. It can also run a mix.

From experience:
LO Double-Edge will OHKO non-bulky Urugamoth - as well as most fragile things, which Mebu decisively outspeeds.
+1 Wood Horn is outright murder to bulky Cune and Toed.
+2 Wild Bolt can do upwards of 60-70% to Skarm and Shandera.
LO Jump Kick OHKOs Sazandora
+2 LO Jump Kick? Dead Blissey? 2hkod Natt? Can't wait to see a Porygon2 fail against this.

Needs testing:
Nature Power. Naturally, +2 Rock Slide will probably OHKO a Shandera switchin (a healthy Shandera normally feels fairly safe switching in), and +2 EQ adds another facet to the mix (killing Metagross and Shandera, assuming no Balloon).
+1 HP Fire in the sun on mixed set (haven't had the pleasure of running into a Skarm or Bug/Steel while mixed - probably bc 4 attack/SD+3 attack is so effective)

Support moves:
Subseed. Never run it myself, but with upwards of 600+ speed, a valid user.
Aromatherapy: Burn? Toxistall? WHUT?
T-Wave: Good ole T-Wave - I suppose it's usable. Careful with Zapdos, Electivire, Espeon and Xatu, though.

EDIT:

Just tried +1 HP Fire (Drought, 172 Sp Attack stat) vs Skarm:
Start of turn 21
Mebukijika-A used Hidden Power!
It's super effective!
The foe's Skarmory lost 68% of its health!
The foe's Skarmory fainted!

interestingly...:
Start of turn 22
Mebukijika-A used Hidden Power!
It's super effective!
The foe's Doryuuzu lost 71% of its health!
The foe's Doryuuzu's Balloon popped!

After battle:
(21:14) what was that Skarm's HP/Sdef EVs?
(21:15) hp was 252, none in sdef
(21:15) kk. O_O was that a super bulky Dory?
(21:15) that thing barely took more damage than skarm did
(21:15) nah. just full on attack and speed for maximum juicage

 

[Benlisted]

Lack of Mebukijika in the OP made me laugh.

Mebu is Sun's version of Dory, only with less Attack/worse STAB but better coverage and supporting techs, as well as Leech Seed Immune. It can also run a mix.

From experience:
LO Double-Edge will OHKO non-bulky Urugamoth - as well as most fragile things, which Mebu decisively outspeeds.
+1 Wood Horn is outright murder to bulky Cune and Toed.
+2 Wild Bolt can do upwards of 60-70% to Skarm and Shandera.
LO Jump Kick OHKOs Sazandora
+2 LO Jump Kick? Dead Blissey? 2hkod Natt? Dead Porygon2 most of the time, guaranteed with SR? Ty, DO WANT.

Needs testing:
Nature Power. Naturally, +2 Rock Slide will probably OHKO a Shandera switchin (a healthy Shandera normally feels fairly safe switching in), and +2 EQ adds another facet to the mix (killing Metagross and Shandera, assuming no Balloon).
+1 HP Fire in the sun on mixed set (haven't had the pleasure of running into a Skarm or Bug/Steel while mixed - probably bc 4 attack/SD+3 attack is so effective)

Mebu is indeed fantastic. While Venu is Specially bulky and Tangrowth is Physically, Mebu trades bulk for speed and coverage no other chlorophyller offers.

LO Double-Edge as STAB is simply amazing. The amount of KOs it gets with solely SR is stunning, and it works well as neutral coverage. Wood Horn isn't in fact necessary, but works very well as a way to recover off LO and recoil damage.

Personally I think either Jump Kick or Nature Power (confirmed to act as EQ) should be on every set. They deal with Heatran, TTar, Nattorei and more. They both have their downsides - Balloon users for Nature Power (and MH Taunt), and Ghosts switching in for Jump Kick, so which you use is personal preference.

Wild Bolt is great to provide neutral coverage on what it cannot otherwise hit as well (mostly ghosts, who have a tendency to wall it) and Megahorn is an option for opposing Grasses and the Latis without taking recoil from Double-Edge.

I currently run 4 attacks, but could easily find room for SD. The issue I think is that I never really find times where I could set it up, given his not fantastic bulk. In any case he works well as a cleaner and revenger for me, as well as a straight up sweeper even without any boosts.

 

[GravityZero]

Hey Ben, I edited my above post with HP Fire in action.

Yeah. I've never actually run Nature Power (since I prefer to spam "Find Battle"), but should I enter a tourney I cannot think of a better game-ending set than one with Rock Slide on it to ensure KOs on things like Shandera.

Healthy Shandera seem to like coming in during SD and killing me after I deal damage - and I can't switch out. Rock Slide ensuring the Shandera kill is important for getting the sweep started properly.

I'm starting to think that Cheer Up is the way to go - earlier I posted my 71% HP Fire vs 252/0 Skarm, and that's with only a 172 Sp. Attack stat and no Life Orb helping. I might be able to bump myself up to OHKO w/ SR + LO range with very few EVs.

Not a bad choice.
- If I run Chople Berry, I still 2hko Skarm where I am.
- If I run LO and boost Sp Atk some, I can OHKO Skarm.

Really, I think I'll use LO Cheer Up if tourneys if the +1 LO Rock Slide OHKOs Shandera. That's a nice range to have, OHKOing Skarm and Shandera. +1 LO Double-Edge should badly knife/KO any of the opponent's game enders - maybe forgo STAB altogether and use Jump Kick for more SE coverage and less recoil?

 

[XienZo]

Hey Ben, I edited my above post with HP Fire in action.

Yeah. I've never actually run Nature Power (since I prefer to spam "Find Battle"), but should I enter a tourney I cannot think of a better game-ending set than one with Rock Slide on it to ensure KOs on things like Shandera.

Healthy Shandera seem to like coming in during SD and killing me after I deal damage - and I can't switch out. Rock Slide ensuring the Shandera kill is important for getting the sweep started properly.

I'm starting to think that Cheer Up is the way to go - earlier I posted my 71% HP Fire vs 252/0 Skarm, and that's with only a 172 Sp. Attack stat and no Life Orb helping. I might be able to bump myself up to OHKO w/ SR + LO range with very few EVs.

Not a bad choice.
- If I run Chople Berry, I still 2hko Skarm where I am.
- If I run LO and boost Sp Atk some, I can OHKO Skarm.

Really, I think I'll use LO Cheer Up if tourneys if the +1 LO Rock Slide OHKOs Shandera. That's a nice range to have, OHKOing Skarm and Shandera. +1 LO Double-Edge should badly knife/KO any of the opponent's game enders - maybe forgo STAB altogether and use Jump Kick for more SE coverage and less recoil?

Uh, Mebukijika cannot learn Rock Slide, and Nature Power will only select Earthquake in wifi-battles(and thus, same with simulators).

Edit: Of course, it'll kill Shandera even easier as long as it doesn't have Balloon.

 

[Benlisted]

Hey Ben, I edited my above post with HP Fire in action.

Yeah. I've never actually run Nature Power (since I prefer to spam "Find Battle"), but should I enter a tourney I cannot think of a better game-ending set than one with Rock Slide on it to ensure KOs on things like Shandera.

Healthy Shandera seem to like coming in during SD and killing me after I deal damage - and I can't switch out. Rock Slide ensuring the Shandera kill is important for getting the sweep started properly.

I'm starting to think that Cheer Up is the way to go - earlier I posted my 71% HP Fire vs 252/0 Skarm, and that's with only a 172 Sp. Attack stat and no Life Orb helping. I might be able to bump myself up to OHKO w/ SR + LO range with very few EVs.

Not a bad choice.
- If I run Chople Berry, I still 2hko Skarm where I am.
- If I run LO and boost Sp Atk some, I can OHKO Skarm.

Really, I think I'll use LO Cheer Up if tourneys if the +1 LO Rock Slide OHKOs Shandera. That's a nice range to have, OHKOing Skarm and Shandera. +1 LO Double-Edge should badly knife/KO any of the opponent's game enders - maybe forgo STAB altogether and use Jump Kick for more SE coverage and less recoil?

HP Fire looks neat, though I use it on Venusaur or Tangrowth more due to their better SpAtk. Dory must have pretty nice base HP...

I'm also confused about when you'd be using Rock Slide from Nature Power lol! But in any case, EQ does pretty much the same to Shandy at least.

I think the reason my set works as well as it does is that I play wifi, where there are no ST shanderaas to ruin my fun. The main thing walling it is actually Gengar, since I don't run Wild Bolt, who isn't too common a switch-in and doesn't threaten my team anyways.

Cheer Up is an interesting thought, given that I doubt Mebu needs more than +1 Atk to OHKO most things that threaten it with something, and that a HP's coverage could be nice. I dislike having to lose the speed or atk ofc, but its feasible. The thing to watch out for I suppose is making sure it isn't outclassed by another Sun sweeper who can do something similar but with +2 to both stats from Growth.

 

[GravityZero]

Uh, Mebukijika cannot learn Rock Slide, and Nature Power will only select Earthquake in wifi-battles(and thus, same with simulators).

Edit: Of course, it'll kill Shandera even easier as long as it doesn't have Balloon.

I twice mentioned never using NPow. Hopefully by endgame Shandera's lost that stupid balloon anyway. Many times I get Sableye to Trick it off before it dies (apparently Shandera's a Sableye counter)

Well, if Nature Power's ALWAYS a 20 PP version of EQ, then I can spam it in Find Battle. Makes testing easier, balloon be damned.

Mixed Set: The most wallbreaky set. CU/Double-Edge/NPow/HP Fire. Only Balloon Shandera, Doryuuzu, Heatran irk me, but no other steel should feel too comfortable switching in (Bronzong?).

4 Attack Set: This set's designed to destroy weakened opponents at endgame. Double-Edge/Jump Kick/Wild Bolt/Faint Attack. There should be no holes in this set, but 4-attack often ends up failing to KO targets.

Subseed: I've never used stall tactics (including this). Hm, Substitute, Leech Seed, Protect, HP Fire or Return should do it.

Swords Dance: The most powerful set, but the one with the least coverage. The standard moves would probably be Double-Edge and NPow. The last move decides what you simply don't cover. Jump Kick takes out Heatran and Bliss while 2hkoing Natt but means no Skarm or Balloon Shandera/Heatran, Wood Horn beats bulky Waters and Rock and Subbing Erufuun but no means no Skarm, or balloon Shandera/Heatran, Wild Volt can 2hko Skarm, KO bulky waters and gyara, and nail Shandera/Heatran in the air but doesn't really KO any of Mebu's threats like Jump Kick and Wood Horn. In other words, pick your weaknesses and live with them.

Just the sheer variety will threaten an opponent well enough.

 

[Byrn Dragonstone]

Mixed Set: The most wallbreaky set. CU/Double-Edge/NPow/HP Fire. Only Balloon Shandera, Doryuuzu, Heatran irk me, but no other steel should feel too comfortable switching in (Bronzong?).

4 Attack Set: This set's designed to destroy weakened opponents at endgame. Double-Edge/Jump Kick/Wild Bolt/Faint Attack. There should be no holes in this set, but 4-attack often ends up failing to KO targets.

Subseed: I've never used stall tactics (including this). Hm, Substitute, Leech Seed, Protect, HP Fire or Return should do it.

Swords Dance: The most powerful set, but the one with the least coverage. The standard moves would probably be Double-Edge and NPow. The last move decides what you simply don't cover. Jump Kick takes out Heatran and Bliss while 2hkoing Natt but means no Skarm or Balloon Shandera/Heatran, Wood Horn beats bulky Waters and Rock and Subbing Erufuun but no means no Skarm, or balloon Shandera/Heatran, Wild Volt can 2hko Skarm, KO bulky waters and gyara, and nail Shandera/Heatran in the air but doesn't really KO any of Mebu's threats like Jump Kick and Wood Horn. In other words, pick your weaknesses and live with them.

Just the sheer variety will threaten an opponent well enough.

I've noticed that a lot of the Sun Sweepers have an amazing movepool. Problems with that is that you have to find something that that one Pokemon excels at.

Venusaur does the Mixed set better do to growths +2 boosts and similar coverage. Growth/Petal Dance/HP Ice(Fire)/Earthquake gives amazing coverage only resisted by bronzong as far as I know. HP fire allows you to OHKO Skarm and Nattorie, whereas Ice takes out the Dragons.

4 Attack set looks very viable, as it offers great coverage. Also the Higher base speed means that it can still function well enough out of sun.

SubSeed should be left to Erufuun/Jumpluff. Erufuun gets priority on it and Jumpluff has that nice base 115 speed to work with (Not to mention if it has Clorophyll.)

Swords Dance looks like it suffers from Moveslot Syndrome. You could drop NPow for Wood Horn/High Jump kick as they provide about the same type coverage.

Slowbro/Slowking work great on Sun Teams. Passing around Toxic allows for some key OHKO's sometimes, and regeneration makes it so that it can come in and wall stuff forever basically.

Has anyone else tried out Rhyperior on Sun teams? With the sun up it isn't OHKO'd by any water attack (Running Bulky EV's) and can 2HKO Crocune. Running Swords Dance turns 2HKO's into OHKO's with Rocks up. I use a dual set up set of Rock Polish/Swords Dance/Earthquake/Knock Down. Knock down puts Skarmory on the ground where it becomes death fodder for a earthquake.

Also SolarZard should almost always hold Lefties. It allows it to survive longer, and with its insane attack power it doesn't need any extra power from other items. Mine generally OHKO's everything anyways.