HGSS RMT

With the recent release of HGSS, and it's effects on the metagame, I thought I would create a new team to use and exploit many of the new combo's that are possible, as well as use Pokémon that remind me of the games, while also having the ability to use it on Wifi just as well. After testing a fair bit on Shoddy, the team has a good record so far, with many wins recorded. Without further ado, the team.

Team at a glance:





Foretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Atk / 144 Def
Relaxed
~ Toxic Spikes
~ Stealth Rock
~ Rapid Spin
~ Payback
My lead, and very effective at it's job. It's primary role at the start of the match is to get the hazards out, and if needed, spin away any hazards my team doesn't want. Taunters are dealt with by Payback, which does a lot to Azelf, which is the only Taunter I have seen so far. Weakness to Fire is covered by Heatran, Fighting I tend to use Payback on.


Suicune @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid
~ Calm Mind
~ Surf
~ Ice Beam
~ Hidden Power Electric
First Pokémon that I am completely new to, but it is a force whenever it is needed. Timid Suicune is a surprise to many opponents, who think this is a Stall team of sorts. With many Pokémon in the standard metagame being so physically offensive, a special attacking suprise can greatly damage anybody who isn't prepared. My only gripe is that it isn't as sturdy as I would of liked, so EV tweaks would be great. Covers a lot of my teams weaknesses, and has it's Electric and Grass weakness covered by Flygon and Heatran respectivly.


Rotom-C @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/80 Def/86 Spd/88 SAtk
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
~ Thunderbolt
~ Shadow Ball
~ Leaf Storm
~ Light Screen
Pseudo CeleTran combo, but instead it is Rotom-C for the team. Recommended by Krommetje, and a nice addition. Good coverage, hits Swampert hard, and still gets the team support it needed to.



Dragonite @ Life Orb
Ability - Inner Focus
60 HP / 252 Atk / 192
Naughty
~ Dragon Dance
~ Extreme Speed
~ Thunderbolt
~ Aqua Tail
A change in tempo here, as Dragonite exploits a new toy in Extreme Speed to devastating effect. Dragon Dance on this set is a must, giving it that little bit more bite, and after a single Dance, the speed needed to hit almost all of OU hard. Ice Punch is again a must, hitting the otherwise dangerous Zapdos clean out of the park, KOing after Rocks, or after one Dance, or even used in tandem with Extreme Speed. I went mixed just because if I cannot hit something hard with a physical attack, Thunderbolt can hit them hard enough to make them think twice about sticking around too long. Ice weakness is taken nicely by Suicune and Heatran.


Flygon @ Choice Scarf
Ability - Levitate
80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant
~ Earthquake
~ Outrage
~ Stone Edge
~ U-turn
This is the main source of offense in my team. This serves to hit Metagross and Scizor hard with Earthquake, Gyarados with Stone Edge, everything else with Outrage and scout with U-turn. Simple enough to use, but has ample chances to switch in thanks to it's Ground immunity. And better still, with Choice Scarf, this serves as an excellant revenge killer. As mentioned, Ground immunity is useful to get in on.


Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability - Flash Fire
244 HP / 32 SpA / 12 SpD / 220 Spe
Calm
~ Substitute
~ Fire Blast
~ Protect
~ Taunt
And this ladies and gentlemen, is the glue of this team. My version on the infamous Tauntran, and as many of my opponents will probably say, it is a bugger to get rid of. Substitute combined with Protect allow me to rack up Poison damage, Taunt allows me to stop set up in it's tracks, and Fire Blast does plenty of damage to everything as it dies from Poison. Paired with Celebi and Dragonite, this has great defensive coverage.


Well, there is the team. Closing comments are that I feel I lack a good way to stop Mamoswine, but otherwise, this team is probably one of the most fun and dangerous I have used. So please, comment away.




 
Personally I wouldn't lead with Foretress because there are a lot of fire type moves on common leads (Heatran, Azelf,...).

You could act uncommon and lead with Flygon. He's fast and can U-turn out on difficult leads, still destroying there sash.

On Dragonite I would go for Earthquake. Otherwise Steel types would wall you.
I would drop Ice punch Instead. After a few DD's Zapdos dies from Extreme Speed anyway.

Overall nice team.
 
I don't like the lack of stab on dragonite. No stab, low base power moves, only 100 something attack evs, a neutral nature and no boosting item mean that he has very little power even after a dragon dance. I'd put dragon claw on him for sure
 
I agree with murph, not having Dragon Claw on Dragonite is a big mistake. Also, Extremespeed really isn't that neccesary for Dragonite. Most priority users don't care anyway. Scizor doesn't care, and Mamoswine is hardly going to be KOed with that EV spread. Give Dragonite Dragon Claw and Life Orb, and change the EVs to a standard 252/252 spread.

Offensive Suicune isn't bulky. His natural bulk isn't enough to save him from massive threats like Salamence and Latias.
 
You dragonite, while using the EV's of the MixNite, is NOT a mixed attacker. First of all, I am not sure if I would use the MixNite EV spread for a DDNite (speed and attack part at least). I would also never add any spATK EV's to your DDESNite since you don't have a single spATK moves so it'd be a HUGE waste. I'd follow the Bulky DDNite's ev and nature or the offensive DDNite (with es of course, but I am not sure how much of an improvement this will make as he is so far the inferior DDer as the offensive DDer to DDMence). OR, if you want to use a MixNite with ES, then take out DD. If you want DDto be a tool of deception, go ahead but I doubt that it will be great at all.
 
Agreeing with everyone that Dragonite is... not going to work.
If you are looking to have a go at an ESnite sweep, then change T-Spikes to normal Spikes on Forry, and give Dragonite the following set:

252Atk/236Speed/20Def @ Life Orb
Jolly
-ExtremeSpeed
-Dragon Claw
-Earthquake
-Dragon Dance

Outspeeds Adamant Lucario before a boost, and ScarfTran afterwards. Remaining EVs are put into Def to help against the former.
 
DDNite above looks fine but if Dragonite like Mence gets a HUGE HUGE HUGE usage boost (I am doubting this but still) and many carry DDESNite then I'd go 252attack 252spe EV for the speed tie but until then I would actually say that speed of Nite should be enough to outrun Adamant 252spe Luke
 

haunter

Banned deucer.
Not really a rate, but you have nothing to deal with Lucario. If it gets the chance to set up a SD - and it can easily set up on Forretress\Flygon - your only hope to stop it is having Suicune at full health. Replacing Flygon with a scarf-Jirachi (iron head\fire punch\u-turn\trick) would give you, at least, the opportunity to revenge kill it. In this case I'd advise an EV spread of: 80 HP \ 252 Atk \ 176 Spe with a jolly nature, so even if you trick your scarf you'll be faster than jolly Luke and other positive natured base 90 Spe.

Also, I think you may try to insert a spin blocker on your team for the sake of TS Forretress. I believe that adding a rest-talk Rotom over Celebi would be a good idea since you'd still be covered against Gyarados.

Just some thoughts.
 
Thanks for all who have commented so far.

@ Everybody who doesn't like the Dragonite set:

I know the lack of a STAB attack is a big flaw, but with an Ice/Electric combo, it covers all of OU for neutral, and Extreme Speed is to revenge kill anything with lox health remaining. As for those telling me to go fully Physcial, no. I pretty much always run 1 mixed Pokémon per team, and Dragonite is my choice here. If I switch to full Physical set, Skarmory will have a field day, even with Fire Punch on the set. Thunderbolt hits it's weaker Special Defense, and stops it walling most of the team. The set EV's and nature allow a safe OHKO on a standard Skamory (provinding there are Rocks down), as well as taking out Gyarados with ease. Also, as noted by a few, Dragon Dance is used as a deception, as many of Dragonite's switch ins are designed to take physical hits, leaving them open to the suprise Thunderbolt. I am considering using Life Orb as item though, as the extra power allows a safe OHKO on many more Pokemon.

@ Xhizors - My team is by no means Infernape weak, as Suicune easily KO's, and after Rocks, so does a +1 Extream Speed from Dragonite. On top of that, it is easily revenge killed by Flygon. And where you raise the point of it coming in on Heatran, I stall it for a few turns and let Toxic Spikes to their part. Also noted the EV spread for Suicune, I shall give that a trial soon.

@ Haunter - I am yet to encounter a Lucario, but the weakness is duely noted. I cannot for see many issues as Flygon with Earthquake again does the trick, and Heatran can stop it setting up in the first place with Taunt. Also, I like the idea of a Spin Blocker, and I will try a Rotom Form in place of Celebi later.

Again, thankyou for comments.
 

haunter

Banned deucer.
@ Haunter - I am yet to encounter a Lucario, but the weakness is duely noted. I cannot for see many issues as Flygon with Earthquake again does the trick, and Heatran can stop it setting up in the first place with Taunt. Also, I like the idea of a Spin Blocker, and I will try a Rotom Form in place of Celebi later.
I'm sorry, but your Heatran is slower than Lucario and is OHKO'd by close combat, and btw Luke won't set up on it, but rather on Forretress\Flygon. Flygon is ohko'd as well by a +2 life orb ES most of the time. So definitely consider my suggestion, or try a timid Rotom in place of the rest-talk one I suggested earlier. Note that you need at least 212 Spe EVs to outspeed adamant Lucario. It looks weird that you still have to face a SD Luke, but when you'll face one, you'll see what I'm talking about.
 
I didn't read all the comments and all and only half of the text since I'm too tired too. I will first give the changes I think you should make and then tell why

Changes I recommend:
Drop Celebi for Rotom-c
Drop Flygon for Scarflatias

since youre Foretress sets up TS I think you should get a spin blocker Spin Blocker in your team. And as Haunter stated before drop Celebi for it. But if you do that I recommend taking the grass attack rotom (not sure how its called) since otherwise you won't have a single counter for swampert.
Rotom-c @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/80 Def/86 Spd/88 SAtk
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Leaf Storm
- Reflect/Light Screen
With This set you'll still have the screen support


I think I would drop either Flygon or Dragonite since they both have that nasty 4x times ice weakness and so are easily KO'd. Well they are both physical sweepers (Except dragonite has T-Bolt) So why not put in Scarf Latias over Flygon. Flygon is used as a revenge killer but I think Latias is better at the job. T-Bolt, Surf, Draco Meteor and Trick, modest/timid nature 252 SpAtk/ 252 Spe.

Further the team seems pretty solid. Only downside I see is that 3 pokemon carry that ice weakness (2 If you take rotom over Celebi). Also 4 of your 6 pokemon have a 4x time weakness but since you are on the offence that doesn't really matter.

Hope i've helped
 
Hey, Doom. I still think your team's good, but since you wanted me to comment...

I'll go over the things I like and dislike about each one.

Why is Forretress's nature Relaxed? If you're not running Gyro Ball, then wouldn't an Impish nature fare better to help him outspeed Pokemon in the same Speed group? Also, I think Forretress us a predictable lead. I'm gonna go with BlackScizor on this one for using an alternate lead. Besides that, Forretress is A-OK.

I like what you did with Suicune. The pseudo BoltBeam combo will probably catch a fair few Pokemon by surprise. Calm Mind can fool your opponent into thinking you have a Subcune or something similar. And, as always, Surf makes a good, reliable STAB. Suicune gets a thumbs-up from me.

I'm not sure why Celebi is so popular, with its 7 weaknesses and all, but whatever. Considering your team is pretty weak to Ice moves and the fact that Ice moves are almost always special, Light Screen is a great idea to put on Celebi. Grass Knot is always a good move, since it can stop heavyweights like Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and others from ruining your fun. HP Ice can cover the Dragons that plague the OU tier and opposing Celebi as well. Nice job on Celebi.

Dragonite is another thumbs up from me, using a mixed pseudo BoltBeam combo again for massive coverage. ExtremeSpeed is, as you said, "a new toy" that works well on Dragonite. My only complaint is: the EVs. If you've got Dragon Dance AND ExtremeSpeed, what's the use for 200 EVs in Speed? Maybe you should take 100 of those EVs and distribute them elsewhere, like maybe in its defenses or HP. Just a suggestion.

As for Flygon, I have no complaints.

And last but not least, Heatran. Your set is truly fearsome. I remember when it wiped me out last night! :) No complaints here.

Well, that's my opinion. Hope it helps!
 
What I was saying with dragonite is that it's your choie for the moves and what not at the end so you can do whatever you want. However, I would AT LEAST change your evs or at least add a move that is actaully spAtk or your dragonite to be mixed. Right now, you don't have a single move that is special on your dragonite while you invest so much for his spATK EVS.
 
Oh the topic of your dragonite's moveset, I'm quite sure with 0 SPA EVs and a Naughty nature, Fire Blast 2HKOs skarm after SR and lefties. Might want to give it a try. It also lets you give scizor and forry a slap in the face.
 
TBH, I'm disappointed, i expected many HGSS changes, and you have extreame speed.

Toxic spikes are rather useless in the over steel levitating anti stall metagame, pain split can be used to leeach hp off blissey and keep your rapid spinner around for longer, pain split is forretresses new HGSS toy.

Dragonite needs stab, dragon claw hits dragons as ice punch does, outrage is actually more powerful than ice punch and 2hko's most pokes in the OU metagame, he needs stab, dracco meteor can replace thunderbolt, and also hits zapdos for loads of damadge, zapdos is no real threat as with HP ice cannot touch dragonite. This set is atrocous, give him stap, one special move is fine, but mence has higher special attack, supperpower, dragon claw, dd dance and extreame speed exploites dragonites advanatges, superpower 2hko's bronzong and skarm after a life orbed sword dance.

get more hgss moves before calling it hgss
 
I didn't read all the comments and all and only half of the text since I'm too tired too. I will first give the changes I think you should make and then tell why

Changes I recommend:
Drop Celebi for Rotom-c
Drop Flygon for Scarflatias

since youre Foretress sets up TS I think you should get a spin blocker Spin Blocker in your team. And as Haunter stated before drop Celebi for it. But if you do that I recommend taking the grass attack rotom (not sure how its called) since otherwise you won't have a single counter for swampert.
Rotom-c @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/80 Def/86 Spd/88 SAtk
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Leaf Storm
- Reflect/Light Screen
With This set you'll still have the screen support


I think I would drop either Flygon or Dragonite since they both have that nasty 4x times ice weakness and so are easily KO'd. Well they are both physical sweepers (Except dragonite has T-Bolt) So why not put in Scarf Latias over Flygon. Flygon is used as a revenge killer but I think Latias is better at the job. T-Bolt, Surf, Draco Meteor and Trick, modest/timid nature 252 SpAtk/ 252 Spe.

Further the team seems pretty solid. Only downside I see is that 3 pokemon carry that ice weakness (2 If you take rotom over Celebi). Also 4 of your 6 pokemon have a 4x time weakness but since you are on the offence that doesn't really matter.

Hope i've helped
On the topic of a spin blocker, does anybody have on that would work on Wifi without the use of codes? I agree with the swap for Rotom-C, and will implement it on my Shoddy team ASAP, though another one will be needed for Wifi.

ScarfLatias seems a neat idea, but again, it is weak to Ice, and although it is powerful, Earthquake from Flygon is great for Metagross and other Steels.

Hey, Doom. I still think your team's good, but since you wanted me to comment...

I'll go over the things I like and dislike about each one.

Why is Forretress's nature Relaxed? If you're not running Gyro Ball, then wouldn't an Impish nature fare better to help him outspeed Pokemon in the same Speed group? Also, I think Forretress us a predictable lead. I'm gonna go with BlackScizor on this one for using an alternate lead. Besides that, Forretress is A-OK.

I like what you did with Suicune. The pseudo BoltBeam combo will probably catch a fair few Pokemon by surprise. Calm Mind can fool your opponent into thinking you have a Subcune or something similar. And, as always, Surf makes a good, reliable STAB. Suicune gets a thumbs-up from me.

I'm not sure why Celebi is so popular, with its 7 weaknesses and all, but whatever. Considering your team is pretty weak to Ice moves and the fact that Ice moves are almost always special, Light Screen is a great idea to put on Celebi. Grass Knot is always a good move, since it can stop heavyweights like Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and others from ruining your fun. HP Ice can cover the Dragons that plague the OU tier and opposing Celebi as well. Nice job on Celebi.

Dragonite is another thumbs up from me, using a mixed pseudo BoltBeam combo again for massive coverage. ExtremeSpeed is, as you said, "a new toy" that works well on Dragonite. My only complaint is: the EVs. If you've got Dragon Dance AND ExtremeSpeed, what's the use for 200 EVs in Speed? Maybe you should take 100 of those EVs and distribute them elsewhere, like maybe in its defenses or HP. Just a suggestion.

As for Flygon, I have no complaints.

And last but not least, Heatran. Your set is truly fearsome. I remember when it wiped me out last night! :) No complaints here.

Well, that's my opinion. Hope it helps!

Thank you for the comments. I enjoyed the battle a lot. I am trying to figure out a new EV spread for Dragonite. And again, comments on Celebi are noted. I forsee that going soon.

What I was saying with dragonite is that it's your choie for the moves and what not at the end so you can do whatever you want. However, I would AT LEAST change your evs or at least add a move that is actaully spAtk or your dragonite to be mixed. Right now, you don't have a single move that is special on your dragonite while you invest so much for his spATK EVS.
So Thunderbolt isn't Special now?

Oh the topic of your dragonite's moveset, I'm quite sure with 0 SPA EVs and a Naughty nature, Fire Blast 2HKOs skarm after SR and lefties. Might want to give it a try. It also lets you give scizor and forry a slap in the face.
I may try that out, but my only issue is the accuracy. I will try it for a while, if I find it unreliable I will not use it.

TBH, I'm disappointed, i expected many HGSS changes, and you have extreame speed.

Toxic spikes are rather useless in the over steel levitating anti stall metagame, pain split can be used to leeach hp off blissey and keep your rapid spinner around for longer, pain split is forretresses new HGSS toy.

Dragonite needs stab, dragon claw hits dragons as ice punch does, outrage is actually more powerful than ice punch and 2hko's most pokes in the OU metagame, he needs stab, dracco meteor can replace thunderbolt, and also hits zapdos for loads of damadge, zapdos is no real threat as with HP ice cannot touch dragonite. This set is atrocous, give him stap, one special move is fine, but mence has higher special attack, supperpower, dragon claw, dd dance and extreame speed exploites dragonites advanatges, superpower 2hko's bronzong and skarm after a life orbed sword dance.

get more hgss moves before calling it hgss
I don't know why you think Toxic Spikes is useless, because I seem to find it ever useful in battles. Even if only one Pokémon per team is effected, that can make a difference.

And as for your thoughts on Dragonite, that paragraph is filled with spelling errors, and Dragonite does not get Sword Dance. Please research your reply next time.
 
How did you come up with your EV spread for Dragonite? Most Skarmory are completely physically defensive, so most often you will see 176 SpDef and 334 HP. Your thunderbolt does 72-86% against Sakrmory (OHKOs with LO, but I think you have leftovers). You cannot OHKO a max HP Skarm without LO, even with max SpAtt, so why not settle for a 2HKO and put those EVs in attack or HP?

A special attack stat of 236 would be sufficient to guarantee a 2HKO on Skarmory, which would be accomplished with no EVs and a neutral nature. This frees up EVs to put in HP and attack, and you can have a lonely or naughty nature to increase the damage behind an ES or Ice Punch.

Of course, that means that Thunderpunch would do about the same amount of damage to the standard Skarmory. Even if Skarmory goes with full Defense, Thunderpunch is a 2HKO with max Attack.

For all physical attacks, I assumed +1 Attack.
 
I agree with murph, not having Dragon Claw on Dragonite is a big mistake. Also, Extremespeed really isn't that neccesary for Dragonite. Most priority users don't care anyway. Scizor doesn't care, and Mamoswine is hardly going to be KOed with that EV spread. Give Dragonite Dragon Claw and Life Orb, and change the EVs to a standard 252/252 spread.
He might as well use Salamence then.

I know you want to try the new moves but this really isn't the way to go about it. Do what Black Scizor said and lead with Flygon. Maybe give Dragonite a Choice Band to have priority around the same strength as Scizor with Bullet Punch.
 

Dragonite @ Life Orb
Ability - Inner Focus
108 HP / 160 Atk / 50 Sp Atk / 192 Speed
Naughty
~ Dragon Dance
~ Extreme Speed
~ Thunderbolt
~ Ice Punch

Changed the EVs on Dragonite to make it more efficient. 192 Speed allows it to out run Positive Base 115s after a Dragon Dance, and anything slower than a Max Speed Tyranitar before one. Changed the nature to allow a 2HKO on Skarmory, but kept some EVs there as I wanted to come close to OHKOing with Stealth Rock down. Attack EVs allow allows a good chance of OHKOing Zapdos with Ice Punch providing Stealth Rocks are out again. It also gives a bit more bite to Extreme Speed. HP EVs were left over, and I saw no benifit putting them in any other Stat.

The Moveset is unchanged, I still prefer coverage to STAB. And you note that Steels aren't covered? Yet they have poor Special Defense, so Thunderbolt hits them hard enough.
 
You need to change your Heatran set. A Heatran without Earth Power is a bad bad bad idea.

Why you ask? because Heatrans number 1 counter is Hetran, what are you going to do as another SubHeatran (w/ Earth Power) comes in and you have to switch out leaving him a free sub.

Try using this moveset for a stallingtran

~ Substitute
~ Torment
~ Earthpower
~ Flamethrower

I can not stress enough as the popularity of Subtran grows you need a solid counter for it, This tran is the same stalling tran you have, but it will help you immensly with other Heatrans.

Yes you can switch in Suicune of a Hetran, but what happens when your Suicune has been Ko'd?
 
This team is just begging for a Magnezone so it can abuse its Dragons to the fullest. I suggest you have Magnezone in place of Celebi who while good at absorbing status and the like is not really that helpful to the whole team. Yes you lose out on CeleTran but you gain a hell of a lot in terms of offense and it frees you up so you dont have to use that moveset ,which is driving me mad, on Dragonite.

Scarf Magnezone allows you to trap a Bullet Punching Scizor who will tear down Dragonite and provides you with a solid revenge killer to Lucario which you sorely need. It is also a perfect fit as it allows you to annihilate the would be counters to Flygon and it allows fully abuse a much more potent set on Dragonite.

This is the Dragonite move set i propose:

Adamant
252atk/252spe
@Life Orb

Dragon Dance
Earthquake
Outrage

Extremespeed

Earthquake and a Dragon attack with all floating steels gone is the equivalent of perfect coverage now the only thing that can beat it with a DD is a revenge killer which in turn is nailed by an Extremespeed so the only thing that can revenge kill is a Ghost.

Flygon is an excellent revenge killer and with a scarf this is really the only thing it should be trying to accomplish, it should be your last resort against threats and therefore it needs to sit at the same speed as them. Instead of your current spread i suggest you simply use a Jolly 252spe/252atk and for extra insurance against Gyarados i suggest you use Thunderpunch over Stone Edge.

To reiterate Scarf Magnezone stops Lucario and Scizor's bullet punch from harming Dragonite and it also removes the floating steels in its and Flygon's way.

Use it over Celebi, this is the set:

Magnezone @Choice Scarf
Naive
252spe/252spa

Thunderbolt
HP Fire
Flash Cannon
Explosion

Thunderbolt is STAB and kills Skarmory and hurts waters a lot. Hidden Power fire beats Scizor, Forretress and Lucario. Flash Cannon hurts TTar and is a good move to hit Latias with Explosion for Blissey.

Im going to echo what a lot of other users have said about Forretress and like them i feel it is not a good fit for this team. I suggest you run instead a Smeargle lead. This team needs SR more than it needs rapid spin and Smeargle sets up on more leads than Forretress as well, not only this it can sleep more leads.

This is the set i propose:

Smeargle @Sash
Jolly
252spe/252hp

Spore
Stealth Rock
Toxic Spikes
Taunt

This set accomplish what your current Forretress does but it can simply set up against more leads while getting a sleep off which makes your life a lot easier i can tell you.

Now your team has a considerable weakness to the move Earthquake in particular a pokemon named Mamoswine not only this you have no status absorber - fear not i have the perfect solution.

I would like to make Suicune into a CroCune. Suicune but particularly because Crocune adores Toxic Spikes which allow it to set up on everything it couldn't previously set up on. This is the set i suggest:

Suicune @Leftovers
Bold
252def/252hp

Surf
Calm Mind
Rest
Sleep Talker

Pretty self explanatory but this team needs a wall to take Heatran and Bulky waters on all day long which you desperately need.

Finally we arrive at your Heatran; if you are loathe to except the Torment over Taunt suggestion then that is fine but i strongly suggest you change Lava Plume to the attacking move. I suggest this for two reasons: 1) More PP so you can stall for longer. 2) 30% burn rate helps against opposing DDers such as Salamence/Dragonite/Gyarados.

Good luck with the team and please try out all the suggestions!
 
You need to change your Heatran set. A Heatran without Earth Power is a bad bad bad idea.

Why you ask? because Heatrans number 1 counter is Hetran, what are you going to do as another SubHeatran (w/ Earth Power) comes in and you have to switch out leaving him a free sub.

Try using this moveset for a stallingtran

~ Substitute
~ Torment
~ Earthpower
~ Flamethrower

I can not stress enough as the popularity of Subtran grows you need a solid counter for it, This tran is the same stalling tran you have, but it will help you immensly with other Heatrans.

Yes you can switch in Suicune of a Hetran, but what happens when your Suicune has been Ko'd?

Hmm, I don't really get where you are coming from there. I mean no Heatran will switch in on a Heatran unless it is sure that it is choiced.

Though I think either Taunt Tran or Sub Tran, make up your mind I think. As not a lot of people are NOT going to attack a Subed Heatran.

And Oh My Sweet Jeebers your sig is possibly the most amazingly confusing conundrum ever. It's like trying to think about time travel, it just hurts your head.
 
I choose to use both as it allows me to stall longer, and Taunt stops set up and Baton Pass teams in their tracks. Almost all of my opponents who let Heatran get a Sub up lose, just because of it's stalling ability. And Taunt is the best move on the set, shutting down a fair few 'counters'.

Lava Plume is now in place of Fire Blast.

@ iKitsune:

Magnezone has no place on my team, as Steels die quickly to repeated Special hits, and Celebi is now replaced with Rotom-C anyway, and that has worked very well.

Dragonite, read my previous reply about that.

Smeargle may well be less predictable, but being predictable is not always a bad thing. Foretress is not just a lead, it takes Physical hits like a beast, and also lures in Fire attacks, so Heatran comes in for a boost.

And for Suicune, you complain that Foretress was predictable, but Crocune more so. Timid Suicune is a suprise, and catches so many people off gaurd that it isn't funny. I don't really want to change it for anthing else.
 
@ikitsune: I would never use a dragonite with outrage and es on the same category as you are using ES in fear of being revenge killed and outrage and its lock-on drawback kills that purpose.


Dragonite @ Life Orb
Ability - Inner Focus
108 HP / 160 Atk / 50 Sp Atk / 192 Speed
Naughty
~ Dragon Dance
~ Extreme Speed
~ Thunderbolt
~ Ice Punch

Changed the EVs on Dragonite to make it more efficient. 192 Speed allows it to out run Positive Base 115s after a Dragon Dance, and anything slower than a Max Speed Tyranitar before one. Changed the nature to allow a 2HKO on Skarmory, but kept some EVs there as I wanted to come close to OHKOing with Stealth Rock down. Attack EVs allow allows a good chance of OHKOing Zapdos with Ice Punch providing Stealth Rocks are out again. It also gives a bit more bite to Extreme Speed. HP EVs were left over, and I saw no benifit putting them in any other Stat.

The Moveset is unchanged, I still prefer coverage to STAB. And you note that Steels aren't covered? Yet they have poor Special Defense, so Thunderbolt hits them hard enough.
With that speed EV you only speedtie with Max Jolly Tyranitar and not outrun him
 
yeah, that nite set is bad. ice punch is pretty pointless since outrage deals more damage pretty much anything except to gliscor in OU, 4x dragon resists (which don't exist) and stuff that resists dragon but is also weak to ice (see 4x dragon resist). proof is in the numbers even when hitting stuff for SE.

Outrage - 120 x 1.5 (STAB) = 180

Ice Punch - 75 x 2 (SE) = 150

hell, even a neutral ice punch does less than a NVE outrage (ice punch would be NVE anyway but w/e). I could do more calcs but I'm sure you get the picture. not taking advantage of one of the best STABs is a waste, so I'll try and fix that. reading your posts, you seem to want a wall breaker to punish defensive cores so why not try either the mixed nite or mence (I'd prefer the classic version so you can avoid get killed by residual damage). dragon/fighting/fire gives you unresisted coverage so w/e.

you can find these sets here

nite
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/dragonite

mence
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/salamence

gl with the team
 

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