Hoopa-Unbound

[OVERVIEW]

With fantastic base stats and a large movepool with a wide range of coverage options, Hoopa-U is difficult to switch into and has an excellent matchup against stall. Despite that, however, its viability should not be overestimated, as stall is the least solid playstyle in Ubers and Hoopa-U is vulnerable to all forms of status and entry hazards. In addition, Hoopa-U is hindered by its mediocre Speed and pathetic Defense, which leaves it susceptible to physical attackers and priority moves.

[SET]
name: Nasty Plot
move 1: Psyshock
move 2: Dark Pulse
move 3: Focus Blast
move 4: Nasty Plot
item: Life Orb
ability: Magician
nature: Modest
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Nasty Plot makes this set extremely deadly, turning Hoopa-U into a powerful wallbreaker after just a single boost. Psyshock and Dark Pulse hit a majority of the tier at least neutrally; Dark Pulse also destroys defensive walls such as Lugia, Giratina-O, Mega Sableye, and bulky Arceus formes. Psyshock is used over Psychic in order to deal specially bulky Pokemon, such as Blissey and Ho-Oh, a large amount of damage. Focus Blast hits Tyranitar and Yveltal, which otherwise wall this set, and a +2 Focus Blast is even able to OHKO Chople Berry Tyranitar.

Set Details
========

Maximum Special Attack investment with a Modest nature allows Hoopa-U to OHKO Blissey, Ho-Oh, Yveltal, and Xerneas before a Geomancy boost, as well as Primal Groudon with maximum Special Defense investment after Stealth Rock damage; the EVs also allow Hoopa-U to OHKO Chople Berry-lacking Tyranitar with maximum Special Defense under sand. The remainder of the EVs are put into Speed to outspeed most Primal Groudon sets and Xerneas without a Choice Scarf. A Timid nature can also be run to outspeed neutral-natured Pokemon with base 90 Speed and full Speed investment, but a Modest nature is usually preferred, as this set functions best against stall. Life Orb is used to boost Hoopa-U's damage output while allowing it to switch moves, capitalizing on its coverage options. 29 HP IVs can be used to minimize Life Orb recoil.

Usage Tips
========

Because Hoopa-U is very frail, try to bring it in via a double switch or with pivot moves such as U-turn and Volt Switch. However, do not switch it in to powerful physical or special attackers, as even with a relatively high Special Defense stat, Hoopa-U is unable to reliably survive moves like Latios's Draco Meteor. Opposing Yveltal, if given a free switch in, can deal massive amounts of damage to Hoopa-U, so try to catch it on the switch. As Hoopa-U's worst matchup is against offense, it can be used as fodder to bring a teammate in safely or as a check to some special attackers, such as Dialga and Mega Mewtwo Y; Hoopa-U should not be played conservatively against such teams. It can also heavily damage Primal Groudon, as even fully specially defensive variants are 2HKOed by a Life Orb-boosted Dark Pulse, and check Extreme Killer Arceus, as an unboosted Extreme Speed cannot OHKO Hoopa-U. Against stall teams, Hoopa-U is best used as an early- or mid-game wallbreaker, paving the way for a teammate to sweep late-game. Hoopa-U can also act as a late-game sweeper after its checks and counters have been removed, as it finds itself with many setup opportunities when against stall.

Team Options
========

Because Hoopa-U's middling Speed and atrocious Defense leave it with few chances to directly switch in, Scizor, Landorus-T, Zekrom, and Yveltal make for good teammates, as they can pivot Hoopa-U in against something it checks, such as physically bulky Pokemon like Skarmory. However, the aforementioned Pokemon do not typically offer much defensive synergy or general team stability, although Zekrom can check Yveltal for Hoopa-U and Scizor can take on Fairy-types, notably Mega Diancie. Other Fairy-type checks that pair well with Hoopa-U include Primal Groudon, Ho-Oh, and Klefki; the latter is especially appreciated, as it can paralyze faster threats to aid Hoopa-U in wallbreaking. Pokemon that can take on physical attackers, such as Skarmory, bulky Mega Salamence, Giratina-O, and bulky Arceus formes, are mandatory. Pokemon that perform well against offense, such as Choice Scarf Xerneas and Darkrai, also make for good teammates. In addition, late-game cleaners can take advantage of Hoopa-U's wallbreaking to sweep late-game. Double Dance Primal Groudon and Swords Dance Ground Arceus especially appreciate Hoopa-U's ability to break through Lugia and Giratina-O.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]

Other Options
=============

Leftovers can be used instead of Life Orb to allow Hoopa-U to stay longer on the field at a significant cost to its power; for instance, a +2 Psyshock is no longer a guaranteed OHKO on Ho-Oh and fails to OHKO Xerneas without the Life Orb boost. Wise Glasses can be used to balance power and longevity, as it still guarantees the OHKO on Ho-Oh and Blissey after a boost, with a chance to OHKO Xerneas as well. Such a set misses out on the OHKO on Extreme Killer Arceus, however. Because of Hoopa-U's naturally high offensive stats, other sets can also be attempted. A mixed set with Hyperspace Fury, Psychic, Gunk Shot, and Drain Punch can be used, taking full advantage of Hoopa-U's coverage moves, though it performs worse against stall due to its inability to achieve key KOs such as on Primal Groudon because of its lack of a boosting move. Trick Room is another interesting option that capitalizes on Hoopa-U's relatively low base 80 Speed. Choice items can also be used, though they make Hoopa-U weaker to Pursuit users. Finally, Grass Knot can be used to hit Ground and Water Arceus harder while still dealing a decent amount of damage to Primal Groudon; however, Lugia completely walls that set.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Defensive Fairy-types**: Defensive Fairy-types such as Fairy Arceus, Klefki, and the rare defensive Xerneas can all beat Hoopa-U one-on-one.

**Physical Attackers**: Most physical attackers, such as Mega Salamence and Rayquaza, can take any hit from Hoopa-U and OHKO it or deal massive damage back even with moves that do not receive STAB due to Hoopa-U's pitiful defenses.

**Priority Moves**: Common physical priority moves, such as Extreme Speed and Bullet Punch, deal massive damage to Hoopa-U. Users of such moves include Mega Lucario, Extreme Killer Arceus, Rayquaza, Giratina-O, and Deoxys-A.

**Offensive Arceus Formes**: Swords Dance Ground and Ghost Arceus can OHKO Hoopa-U with their STAB attacks, while Adamant Life Orb Extreme Killer Arceus has a chance to do so as well.

**Choice Scarf Users**: Common Choice Scarf users can deal with Hoopa-U very easily; for example, Choice Scarf Xerneas and Genesect can OHKO Hoopa-U with Moonblast and U-turn.

**Primal Groudon**: Both offensive and defensive variants of Primal Groudon can take an unboosted attack from Hoopa-U and OHKO it in return, even without any Attack investment.

**Yveltal**: While offensive Yveltal can't directly switch into a +2 Focus Blast, it can heavily damage Hoopa-U with Knock Off, Sucker Punch, or Foul Play if given a free switch in.

**Mega Diancie**: Mega Diancie outspeeds Hoopa-U and has a high chance of OHKOing it; however, it has to be wary of taking a Life Orb-boosted Psyshock before Mega Evolving.

**Ho-Oh**: The occasional maximum Speed Ho-Oh is able outspeed and OHKO Hoopa-U, while Hoopa-U cannot OHKO it with anything when unboosted.
 
Last edited:

Fireburn

BARN ALL
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Use bullet point format for the skeleton por favor

also Drain Punch is mandatory if this set stays since otherwise it wont beat stall (ttar clicks pursuit)

will comment more once in qc stage
 
What bout scarf? I think it at least needs mentioning for usabilities vs other playstyles. Also, for when you write up, how bout something about how ironic it is Hoopa UNBOUND is so restrictive.
 
What bout scarf? I think it at least needs mentioning for usabilities vs other playstyles. Also, for when you write up, how bout something about how ironic it is Hoopa UNBOUND is so restrictive.
I'm not done? I would appreciate if you saved those commends for the qc stage
 

Minority

Numquam Vincar
is a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
I feel very strongly that Pokemon approved for an analysis due to tiering restrictions should only get one set. The reason for this is because the analysis for these Pokemon should say "this Pokemon isn't viable, but if you had to use it this is the most workable set". Having more than one set implies that this Pokemon can fill more than one niche when in reality it can't fill any. I'm saying this while this is still in WIP so that you don't end up putting a lot of effort into work that ends up getting tossed.

I'll need to go back and try this Pokemon more, but for now I think you should pick the set you are most confident in when it comes to actually doing something unique.
 

Freeroamer

The greatest story of them all.
is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributor
NP is the only set that this mon actually functions vs a playstyle with, your current set(and every Hoopa set) gets beat up by offense p hard(everything but donner outspeeds and threatens, and you don't come close to OHKOing Donner meaning set up opportunity, Deo gets 2 hazards if sash, rocks if not), balance and stall will just use a fat arc like waterceus to stall this out. NP at least will remove a mon or two from the generic stall build before it goes down which might open up the opportunity for you to win with your other members? idk but it's this mons best shot at achieving anything ever. Scarf is ass for the same reason every scarf user barring a couple is ass in this meta: doesn't revenge any boosted threat, loses momentum and gives set ups away, but this scarf user is especially ass.
 
I'm just getting rid of scarf and specs b/c once you're locked into something it's easy to get pursuit trapped. About NP I'll include the set in other options but mixed LO has been working fine for me so far (as far as Hoopa goes). NP does OHKO Blissey and Ho-oh at +2 with Psyshock, but setup opportunities are limited vs mons with any physical attack whatsoever and even at +2 it fails to OHKO bulkier mons. Once this gets to QC I'm willing to switch it around if needed.
 

Minority

Numquam Vincar
is a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
I played with this mon a bit yesterday so I'll share some thoughts. I'm starting to think that a NP set isn't worthwhile. You get few to no setup opportunities against offense squads because even at max Speed, most if not all opposing mons just outspeed you and 2HKO. The NP set is also worse off against most Ho-Oh balances in comparison to the set that Dominatio posted because Klefki exists; at best you trade 50% damage on Klefki for the loss of Hoopa-U. Even with 3 moves to work with, NP Hoopa-U still can't cover stall as well as it wants because of how Pulse + Focus + Psy lines up against what stall usually employs, for example you still don't break defensive Fairies. In the past I've run T Wave + NP to try and help against the offense matchup, but you end up being even worse off in other matchups since you now only have two coverage moves.

This mon's best niche might actually be Trick Room, but I haven't used it enough to be sure yet.
 
Not too sure about tr (I've literally never played that before) but I've playtested both mixed LO and np and with alot of team support it seems to work fine. The current set I'm experimenting with is np/psyshock/dark pulse/focus blast, with Wise Glasses. This OHKOs Ho-oh, Blissey, and offensive Yveltal at +2, and has a chance to OHKO max spdef pdon and geoxern after rocks (scarf outspeeds and ohkos hoopa-u anyway). This is all using a modest nature, which is enough to outspeed most Primal Groudons/Ho-Oh.
 

Inspirited

There is usually higher ground.
is a Contributor Alumnus
RE Nasty Plot: Dark Pulse/Psyshock/Focus Blast is what I assume the attacking moves are. Focus Blast is to nab KOes on Chople Berry ttar when Hoopa is +2 and after TTar has taken a bit of prior damage prefferably (7/8 chance to KO on top of 70% acc is not very nice). The other two moves are to allow Hoopa to terrorize stall once TTar is gone. You make your matchup vs stall even more in Hoopa's favor at the cost of semi-reliably revenge killing Ho-Oh and losing your ability to threaten Xerneas if Hoopa doesn't have a Nasty Plot up. I am not sure this is worth it to be honest as you are tossing more eggs into one basket in hoping for a single match up against a playstyle that isn't very strong to begin with. Its just overall not worth losing the ability to revenge kill a 60%ish Ho-Oh / do a ton of damage to Xerneas and beginning to do damage to balance as a result.

RE Trick Room: I dunno yet, its looking like OO material to me though.

Overview: This thing is pretty terrible. Mention stall is the weakest playstyle at the moment to talk Hoppa down a bit and I will approve.

Set: Looks good

Moves:
  • hyperspace fury targets physically bulky mons (e.g. ho-oh, blissey)
  • psychic targets specially bulky mons (such as mmence/pdon)
I think you mixed these two up or you meant frail > bulky in both cases.

Grass Knot: Mention Arceus-Water as a target before Pdon. Psychic still does more to the latter and other bulky Arceus formes (I'm thinking Dragon mainly). Defog Arceus-Ground is rare for a reason and probably shouldn't be mentioned.
Thunderbolt: This looks like OO material to me just because of how linear it is and how Hoopa more or less needs the moves on the set (other than maybe Gunk Shot) in order to function correctly. Hitting Yveltal is not a good enough reason to give up Gunk Shot in my humble opinion. Personally I would remove it, but I want to see what other QC members think.

Team Options: These seem off, but I want to do more research on them before I say ye or ne

C&C looks good to me for now.

Fix what you can, and I will get to this sometime after. Terrible mon, good analysis.
 
this mon confuses the shit outta me

my current thoughts are to "focus on its best attributes" - so far from discussion it seems to be agreed that hoopa's only viable matchup is against stall. balance = ho-oh balance, and you have a bunch of mons that fit these teams that are faster than hoopa... mainly jolly ho-oh itself, and klefki also exists. so offense and balance matchups are not worth making sets around beating. looking at stall - a +2 hoopa has no survivors besides like phys def xern or phys def ho-oh, and im not aware of any stall teams that use these mons besides outrage's early oras team that had phys def ho-oh (iirc) + clefable. so at the moment if you focus on stall, then nasty plot is whats going to work best. without any boosts, this set can be recover stalled by mons like full hp lugia or the fat arceus, although the arceus will eventually lose. loses faster if sr is up. this still digs into your own hp and i highly doubt hoopa-u doesnt get toxic'd in the process of this.

basically in my eyes the current set is trying to do too much and does nothing compared to specializing the set against hoopa's best matchup - stall! any other matchup requires a lot of yellow magic to work, and we have other, faster mixed attackers for these roles (ray, yveltal, potentially mewtwo depending on how you look at psystrike) so i'd only approve a nasty plot set. this post is likely all over the place but this mon does that to ya.

Hoopa-Unbound @ Life Orb
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 SpA / 44 SpD / 212 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Focus Blast
- Nasty Plot
- Psyshock

thats the set i made back in january 2015, and i still think its the best shot at viability hoopa has. not convinced by this mixed attacker set. we might need all of qc in here at this rate...
 
WreckDra took into acc and implemented suggestions

My concern with TR is that is only lasts 5 turns, which imo is not nearly enough for Hoopa-U to set up and even get two KOs, seing as an unboosted Psychic or Dark Pulse is fairly weak in a metagame of bulky and hard hitters. In terms of viability Hoopa def performs best against stall but I feel it has the potential to damage bulky offense as well, so i'm not sure it's only viable mu is versus stall. it's true that max speed Ho-Oh and the rare max speed don decimates it, though I find running alot of team support to cover these threats gives me more breathing room when using hoopa. It still outspeeds, even with a modest nature, most geoxern, dons, and Ho-Ohs, as well as other mons common on bulky offense such as Dialga, Gira-O, pogre, etc.

I do notice that the current set fails to OHKO any of these mons, which is why I'm open to changing it to an np set. If it gets a free turn to setup, it can run through stall teams and some more offensive ones, it's def is complete shit but it can take hits from stuff like lati & mewtwo and can tank two judgments from support Arceus. Regarding the set you posted above it's similar to the one I'm using rn but (as I think I mentioned above) I'm using Wise Glasses. generally I tend to dislike the recoil against stall teams that can toxic stall, and it still nets kos at +2 such as Blissey/Ho-oh, a chance to ohko xerneas, and a (slim) chance to ko don after rocks (slightly bigger chance if it takes rocks in primal form). I would appreciate more input on this

sidenote: apparently my set can't 2hko standard ubers skarm with anything, could change it to dpulse/psyshock instead of hyperspace fury/psychic which still 2hkos Ho-oh but I'll have to test that some more
 

Minority

Numquam Vincar
is a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
I came up with this set for TR Hoopa-U and I'd like to get some additional opinions on it.

[SET]
name: Trick Room
move 1: Trick Room
move 2: Drain Punch
move 3: Psychic
move 4: Hyperspace Fury
item: Life Orb
ability: Magician
nature: Quiet
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SpA
ivs: 0 Spe

I feel like the only way Hoopa-U is going to succeed is if it has the opportunity to gimmick someone. TR is at least a unique move that other Dark-types like Darkrai and Yveltal don't have access to, meaning you've got a TR mon that can setup on things like Mewtwo. This should slightly improve what Hoopa-U can do against offense teams, but you're still crushed by strong priority. That aside, this Pokemon is scary under TR. I'd treat it basically as a Mewtwo that can offer TR support and eat Ghosts / Psychics. This could potentially run Gunk Shot, but Xerneas is pretty much the only target while getting TR up kinda bones it anyways. The EVs do these things you see below, but you might be able to work a bulkier spread.

- always 2HKOs P Don with Psychic
- is a 99.6% 2HKO on support Arc with Psychic
- deals 42% minimum to Klefki with Hyperspace Fury
- deals 50% minimum to Mega Sableye with Hyperspace Fury
- is a OHKO on Mega-Diancie with Psychic
- deals 75% minimum on Blissey with Drain Punch
- is a OHKO on ttar with Drain Punch
- is a 81% OHKO on Darkrai with Drain Punch
- is a 69% OHKO on defensive Mence with Psychic after SR
- is a OHKO on Lugia after SR with Hyperspace Fury
- is a OHKO on Gira-O after SR with Hyperspace Fury
- is a OHKO on Arceus-Ghost with Hyperspace Fury
- is a 2HKO on maximum defense P-Ogre with Hyperspace Fury
- is a 91% 2HKO on Skarmory with Psychic
- is a 2HKO on Ferrothorn with Drain Punch
 
I'm not too fond about TR, since Hoopa-U just seems too physically frail to stay alive long enough to get some key KOs. Notably, Klefki can tank two HFs and KO back after life orb recoil; it also gets slaughtered by Sableye's Foul Play. It just doesn't have the moveslots necessary to hit much of the tier for an OHKO or near OHKO; this problem is less common in other mons under TR such as water spout pogre/sd mawile because they OHKO/2HKO most resists at +2 regardless. Not to mention all common priority in the tier is either status or physical, so Hoopa succeeding under TR is highly conditional. Not saying this set has no uses, though I feel it's moveslots should be tailored to target certain threats for guaranteed KOs after hazards and/or a bit of damage, such as xern after sr, physdef skarm after rocks & a bit of prior damage (with Dark Pulse), and so on. I'm not really experienced on this (never played with tr lol) so I'm not sure how it would work out exactly, but that's what I have now when looking at this.
My idea currently is to write up either the mixed or np set, since I've played with both for a while. I'm totally open with revamping it if TR turns out to be more viable.
 
i would just make np the main set since, unlike darkrai, u can break past blobs on stall. beaucse this mon is so vastly inferior to everything, u need to scrounge up its minor niche and just work with it. np and tr are the only ways to do so. mixed is basically a worse yveltal so i wouldn't include it.
 

Minority

Numquam Vincar
is a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
I seem to be in the minority (get it) when it comes to liking the mixed set more than NP. I'll just bite the bullet and say make the set NP, which doesn't actually require that many changes. I'd save the mixed set on a doc somewhere just in case we ever bring it up again. First mention in Other Options should be TR and it should have one or two decent sentences talking about it. After this I would mention the mixed set, and maybe choice items after that.

Once the NP set is up you should revise Checks and Counters so that you have first, the mons NP struggles to break even at +2, the common mons that revenge Hoopa-U (which is almost everything that happens to be faster), and then anything that remains. You can organize the second part of that into: offensive mons that typically use enough Speed invest to outspeed Hoopa-U, priority, and Scarf users, in the order that you see fit in regards to potency + relevance.

Make these changes and I'll stamp, sorry we all have you running around.
 
Nasty Plot set only, the listed set is too slow and frail to be an effective mixed wallbreaker, and it performs a little worse vs Stall than the Nasty Plot set. Move mixed wallbreaker to OO and make the analysis NP IMO.
 

Minority

Numquam Vincar
is a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
In the overview I'd add two bullet points, first that this mon has good STAB options and coverage moves and second that it has no status immunities and is afflicted by every type of hazard (limited defensive synergy).

In set comments this is minor, but I'd mention NP first and then go into each move. Also specifically mention the targets of Psyshock.

For set details, remove that bit about the Hoopa-U EV spread being faster than most Ho-Oh because that isn't true. A lot of people run Ho-oh with 252 or 252+, both of which are faster. The mentions of other held items should be moved into the other options section; at the beginning and in reference to the NP set.

In usage tips there should be a mention of how to play this versus teams that lean offense. Elaborate on what it can do in these match ups (not much, maybe trade vs. something) and explain how you can achieve this.

As already stated, first mention in C&C should be defensive fairies. The common priority move users should also be listed out. Mentions of Thunderbolt should be removed here unless the move is added into Other Options. Arceus formes that aren't SD are not good checks to this mon so remove them.

QC 1/3
 
  • choice items should not be used since they make hoopa-u pursuit fodder
this should be in other options, i'm not surprised that other options is huge as this mon has the options but its too shit to be flexible with them. whats currently there is great, just add specs/scarf to it.
  • vs offense-can beat common suicide leads, notably deo s
sash deo-s still gets 2 layers as hoopa has no priority. if by "beat" you simply mean "can kill some of them but not stop their hazards" then yea. scolipede shits on hoopa for the record.
  • should be brought in via slow pivot
what slow pivots? scizor is pretty borderline, and defensive rachi can't always run it. if i forgot someone add them here or remove the "slow" part - you either pivot off a forced switch or tank an attack when coming in because the only viable pivots are scarf lando/yveltal atm.
  • note that can be exchanged for heavy damage on pdon if needed, or to ko slightly weakened ekiller
even full sp def pdon is 2hko'd by dark pulse after sr - if it takes rocks as normal don its a 63% chance, dies if it takes sr dmg as primal. unless you mean just sack hoopa in a 1v1 to get 50% dmg on groudon? need clarification here.

ekiller doesn't need to be weakened to die to focus blast either, even the 200 hp sets die after rocks:

252+ SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 393-463 (102.8 - 121.2%)
252+ SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Focus Blast vs. 200 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 393-463 (91.1 - 107.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

check yo calcs
  • Mega Diancie: outspeeds, isn't ohkoed by anything, most of the time will ohko back
252+ SpA Life Orb Hoopa Unbound Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 211-250 (87.5 - 103.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
low chance, but somewhat off. if you can get rocks against diancie this just dies. if it comes in as regular diancie then its forced to protect or get 2hko'd - free switch

change it up and this is QC 2/3
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top