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Pokémon Hoopa
- Thread starter Delibird is Amazing
- Start date
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70/80 isn't very optimal for Trick Room. However, that's alright, because Hoopa's new forme doesn't need Trick Room up to wreck face. That thing is scary.
Regular Hoopa, however, will probably end up UU or lower.
I was thinking 4 attacks with either Orb over scarf. If it doesn't invest defenses, Alternate form still gets OHKO'd by Orb Bisharp and Band TTar Pursuit after hazards. It can severely damage or outright KO most Pursuit users and outspeeds the two mentioned. The set below 1-2HKO's every wall in OU after SR save for physically defensive Diancie (3HKO). Every offensive pokemon can be severely crippled with the correct move choice. 100 BP dark STAB is pretty ridiculous coming from base 170 special attack.
Hoopa-A @ Life Orb
Ability: Magician
EVs: 136 Atk / 188 SpA / 184 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Hyperspace Fury
- Thunderbolt/Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch
- Psyshock/Gunk Shot
184 speed evs to outspeed Jolly Mega TTar. 136 attack evs to guarantee the 2HKO on 252/252+ Chansey with Drain Punch after SR. The rest dumped into special attack. Thunderbolt is primarily to 2HKO Mandibuzz, Gunk Shot is to 2HKO Fairies (252/252+ Sylveon and Chansey take 40%+ from Psyshock).
I've been thinking of a predominantly physical set with Assault Vest set as well, but I haven't done any EVs yet. Trading raw damage for more switch ins seems decent. Something like Knock Off, Gunk Shot, Drain Punch, Hyperspace Fury seems like it'd be able to break most walls as well.
Edit: It appears Hyperspace Fury is Physical. Disregard most of the above.
Hoopa-A @ Life Orb
Ability: Magician
EVs: 136 Atk / 188 SpA / 184 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Hyperspace Fury
- Thunderbolt/Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch
- Psyshock/Gunk Shot
184 speed evs to outspeed Jolly Mega TTar. 136 attack evs to guarantee the 2HKO on 252/252+ Chansey with Drain Punch after SR. The rest dumped into special attack. Thunderbolt is primarily to 2HKO Mandibuzz, Gunk Shot is to 2HKO Fairies (252/252+ Sylveon and Chansey take 40%+ from Psyshock).
I've been thinking of a predominantly physical set with Assault Vest set as well, but I haven't done any EVs yet. Trading raw damage for more switch ins seems decent. Something like Knock Off, Gunk Shot, Drain Punch, Hyperspace Fury seems like it'd be able to break most walls as well.
Edit: It appears Hyperspace Fury is Physical. Disregard most of the above.
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I've run base 100 speed in Trick Room and it's perfectly fine (0 IV, negative nature), the meta is by and large speed obsessed so I think it would work. You won't under-speed neutral base 50s, but neutral base 60s you will and not all base 50s commonly have no speed investment (Azumarill is a good example).
Plus it's defense is terrible, you're looking at 75-88.7% from a base 100 Atk mon with 252+ investment and a neutral STAB base power 100 move (no boosting item) on a 0 HP / 0 Def Hoopa or Hoopa-Alt, bearing in mind many OU pokes are going to have higher attack than that and a possibly a Life Orb and out-speed. That, on top of it's awful defensive typing, is a very good reason to run it in TR to patch up that turdy defense. It can even set Trick Room, which would be good if you use it to force a switch.
Why is the main complaint here that it is weak to Knock Off and Pursuit? Or do the people complaining not know that it gets Psychic/Dark typing?
Psychic/Dark is still horrible defensively, as it gives no resists (just an immunity).
Hoopa's original form is 4x weak to Dark moves. With how prominent Dark moves are becoming in OU, that's why it's less desirable. It's not a complaint, it's a fact. The argument is that you're going to have to use Hoopa's alternate form for it to be any good in OU, and that's stretching it.
Stretching it? Hoopa-A is going to wreck in OU. Do you think that a Pokemon with 160 base attack, 170 special attack, STAB Knock Off, and the ability to run TrickScarf is going to be UU? I doubt it.
I really doubt it with base 80 speed. And a single immunity.
Its defensive typing is abysmal, has a 4x weakness to U-Turn, gets walled by Fairies, and has pitiful Speed for its offenses. It may have a niche with TrickScarf, and a good one at that, but that may not be enough to justify a solid place in OU. It'll be B-rank at best.
Data miners got a hold of ORAS and we finally know what Hyperspace Fury does; it lowers Defense on each use. http://pastebin.com/vzZpybq1
A hoopa-a/cobalion core could do wonders seeing how well they compliment each other. Cobalion even has volt-switch to safely bring (scarf) hoopa-a if you use a slow enough spread (you'll stil want to outspeed stuff up to heatran probably).
Well, on the bright side, Hoopa-A's Defense was garbage anyways. It's still a really good move.
Gunk Shot.
It is on the games, I don't know about the simulator since I wouldn't waste a team slot on this, I'd rather use beedril or pidgeot to feel original. As far as theorymon went this thing is hard to bring in for too little results in OU.
Hoopa-Alterate is pretty comparable to another titan, Kyurem-White. Both have bad defensive typing(including crucial weakness to Bug and Rock respectively) which is amazing offensively, astonishing offenses but mediocre speed. While Hoopa is a bit slower than Kyurem-W it makes up for extreme unpredictability(can be Band, Scarf, Specs, Nasty Plot, Mixed, Assault Vest, OTR). If Hoopa doesn't become ubers we might as well unban Kyurem-W lel.
My main point is, stop whining about the weakness' and try to talk about something useful. I'm assuming you guys are all here because Hoopa somewhat interests you, not just so you can talk shit about. I could be wrong though, in that case, you guys got some issues.
You didn't answer my question. I said that we know the OG form is weak to dark, which means you should be running a Fighting or Justified user to support it. As for the alternate form, it is not weak to Dark which goes back to my original question of, then why is everyone still complaining about the Dark weakness if the og form is obsolete compared to the alternate one?
So again, why not just give it some support. A Poison type (Vensaur, Beedril, Gengar, Tentacruel, Crobat, etc) is bound to draw in Psychic moves which will give you a free switch. If Hoopa Alternate is banded/speced it will put a hole in nearly anything that tries to switch in to it after that turn.
You didn't answer my question. I said that we know the OG form is weak to dark, which means you should be running a Fighting or Justified user to support it. As for the alternate form, it is not weak to Dark which goes back to my original question of, then why is everyone still complaining about the Dark weakness if the og form is obsolete compared to the alternate one?
So again, why not just give it some support. A Poison type (Vensaur, Beedril, Gengar, Tentacruel, Crobat, etc) is bound to draw in Psychic moves which will give you a free switch. If Hoopa Alternate is banded/speced it will put a hole in nearly anything that tries to switch in to it after that turn.
If you find a way to use a good core with him I'm all ears, I like the concept behind magician but not its poor execution, that's why I am here.
As of now Hoopa is only a niche Pokemon and a semi mediocre answer to stall, if you find a decent way to use this thing let me know. As of now a lot of pokemon can deal with small better for most teams archetypes. Probably gunk shot and knock off might alleviate it's issues a little bit.
As of now Hoopa is only a niche Pokemon and a semi mediocre answer to stall, if you find a decent way to use this thing let me know. As of now a lot of pokemon can deal with small better for most teams archetypes. Probably gunk shot and knock off might alleviate it's issues a little bit.
Honestly, I think Hoopa-A will be a decent Pokemon. It's typing isn't exactly the greatest defensively, but on an offensive foot, it's pretty good. It's just looking to be a bit too much of a gimmicky Pokemon than one would like. It's ability is rather, meh, though its stats are pretty amazing.
I think it'll have decent niche as a bulky-ish hit and runner. Can't wait to use it. Thing looks like Satan.
I think it'll have decent niche as a bulky-ish hit and runner. Can't wait to use it. Thing looks like Satan.
Are we talking about regular or alterated Hoopa? Because a standard stall team(i.e. those Sableye+Tentacruel builds) is absolutely powerless against Nasty Plot Hoopa-Alterate or even Specs/Band one.
These stats don't seem as jaw-dropping when we've got megas all over the place with extreme stats, but remember Hoopa-A is an just an alt form- it can hold shit like a scarf, band or life orb. I don't think anyone can tell me that a mon with dual 160/170 offences, ok defences, a great STAB combo in Psychic/Dark and moves with decent bp is going to be a B rank mon, even with 80 base speed.
There's a lot of things that Hoopa-A can do and that's really exciting, but it's just disappointing how weirdly its stats are distributed, how bad its ability is, and how its typing turned out. It's mainly a reminder to everyone that just because this Pokemon's stats are outrageously high doesn't mean it automatically dominates. I'm not necessarily saying it's a bad Pokemon by any respect, but it has a lot of flaws. Flaws that can certainly be patched up by team composition, yes, but they're flaws nonetheless, hence a tentative B rank rating. But I guess the discussion about its weaknesses did drawl on a bit.
Perhaps there's a way to abuse Magician somehow; maybe there's more to the ability than we give it credit for, because, unlike Delphox and Klefki, Hoopa-A has monstrous base stats. Remember, it does have STAB Fling. I'm assuming using Knock Off will not steal the opponent's item, which is unfortunate, because that would be possibly the coolest niche ever. Considering how Hyperspace Fury bypasses Protect, it's an excellent move to use Magician with. The issue now is which item would you either Fling or try to consume before it's too late for Magician to be a key factor in the game. Lum Berry could possibly work if you can bluff using Hoopa-A as a setup sweeper. Consume a status attack, retaliate with Hyperspace Fury, steal an item. This may sound super-gimmicky, but considering how slow it is already, maybe an Iron Ball Fling set could be feasible.
There's also the plausibility of a Skill Swap set, which yet again ruins stall by taking away Natural Cure, Magic Guard, or even Prankster, and replacing it with...well...Magician, and who wants Magician? No one. The only thing you'd have to watch out for is using Knock Off on something you give Magician to, which is too circumstantial of a situation anyways.
Perhaps there's a way to abuse Magician somehow; maybe there's more to the ability than we give it credit for, because, unlike Delphox and Klefki, Hoopa-A has monstrous base stats. Remember, it does have STAB Fling. I'm assuming using Knock Off will not steal the opponent's item, which is unfortunate, because that would be possibly the coolest niche ever. Considering how Hyperspace Fury bypasses Protect, it's an excellent move to use Magician with. The issue now is which item would you either Fling or try to consume before it's too late for Magician to be a key factor in the game. Lum Berry could possibly work if you can bluff using Hoopa-A as a setup sweeper. Consume a status attack, retaliate with Hyperspace Fury, steal an item. This may sound super-gimmicky, but considering how slow it is already, maybe an Iron Ball Fling set could be feasible.
There's also the plausibility of a Skill Swap set, which yet again ruins stall by taking away Natural Cure, Magic Guard, or even Prankster, and replacing it with...well...Magician, and who wants Magician? No one. The only thing you'd have to watch out for is using Knock Off on something you give Magician to, which is too circumstantial of a situation anyways.
Don't even discuss magician imo; one of the great things about this Hoopa form is that it can actually hold an item so I wouldn't waste it on trying gimmicks that I'd expect a newcomer to suggest.
Scarf set honestly looks the best, can't see that not being it's main set. Knock Off, Hyperspace Fury... something and something should be really scary.
Scarf set honestly looks the best, can't see that not being it's main set. Knock Off, Hyperspace Fury... something and something should be really scary.
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