dark coverage isn't even needed on hydreigon. the combination of fire+water/ground hits every steel type and fairies already resist dark so it's not going to improve your coverage at all. that lets you carry either draco meteor or roost instead, depending on your needs. I think roost would be good if you are using hydreigon as your primary ghost counter since not a whole lot resists ghost now.
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Pokémon Hydreigon
- Thread starter supergoji18
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I'm thinking of running an expert belt with roost, draco meteor, dark pulse and fire blast/surf.
Wish it could learn Nasty Plot, that would make up for the loss of the specs .
Wouldn't Roost make more sense, if you were to use Life Orb? I know you can bluff a choice item, but still. An additional attacking move makes more sense on a Expert Belt set
I run:
Hydreigon@Expert Belt
EVs: 252 Spe, 252 SpA, 6 HP
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Pulse
- Earth Power
- Dark Pulse
The reason I run Dragon Pulse is, that without Scarf, I won't need to switch out most of the time making Draco Meteor less relevant. Fire Blast for Dragon+Fire Coverage, Dark Pulse as great offensive STAB and lastly something to hit Azumarill for neutral damage.
azumarill resists dark pulse. it doesn't really offer anything in coverage as gengar is already frail and fire blast will take out aegislash just as effectively. the only way for hydreigon to beat azumarill is a risky charge beam set. earth power and fireblast hits every steel/fairy but a lot of faries are simply too bulky to be beaten with neutral special attacks.
it's tempting to try and use that bulk since 92/90/90 is fairly high bulk and it comes with an excellent array of resists and immunities.
it's tempting to try and use that bulk since 92/90/90 is fairly high bulk and it comes with an excellent array of resists and immunities.
I meant Earth Power by lastly. Dark Pulse hits hard enough against Steel Typs you won't want to waste your fire blast on. And hitting Fairies for Neutral Damage is important enough if their HP bare is low enough or when you predict a switch into one. Thats what Earth Power and Fire Blast are for.
there is no reason to ever use dark pulse on any steel types, ever. you are wasting a move slot for no benefit. earth power or fire blast will always do more damage with the sole exception of jirachi, who is going to struggle as a hydreigon counter anyway. I'd rather use charge beam shenanigans than dark pulse.
Or you, like everyone else, could/should stop worry about using Hydregion to fight Fairies in the first place and use your 5 other teammates to deal with them.
Dark Pulse/ Draco Meteor / Fire Blast hits everything in the OU tier except for Azumarill who will beat you no matter what.
EDIT: If you want Ground/Fire coverage, use Garchomp.
There is a reason, since now, Dark isn't resisted by as many as it used to be it's a lot more "Spammable". You're using Azumarill as an example that Dark Pulse is a bad move choice, but there's two things wrong with that. . .
1. Even after you Charge beam, which isn't an OHKO that Azumarill can just Play Rough you anyways.
2. Hydreigon is never going to stay in on an Azumarill thus making that argument. . . Useless. . .
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where did you even get the idea I'm using hydreigon to fight fairies when I have said absolutely nothing of the sort? how could you possibly infer that from what you quoted? when it comes to steels earth power is better than dark pulse, it hits heatran much harder(and empoleon if you ever see it). all other steels are covered by fire blast. then you have dragon attacks for everything else. what are you even trying to hit with dark pulse? what coverage does dark pulse offer over dragon/ground/fire?
I used the wrong quote. Oops, shame on me.
Regardless, as NoahStar stated, Dragon/dark/fire gives it perfect neutral coverage to everything bar Azumarill, which it can't beat anyways.
Yes, Heatran is 2HKO'd by an Earth Power. And yes, Dark Pulse 3HKOs but, there's nothing Heatran can do in return anyways.
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 222-263 (66.4 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 235-278 (64.9 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 199-235 (57.8 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 165-195 (47.9 - 56.6%) -- 89.5% chance to 2HKO
Dark Pulse is a spamable 120 base power move that nothing is immune to and 2HKO's every offensive Steal type bar MMawile.
The point is that running Hydregion for the sole purpose running Dragon/Fire/Ground coverage isn't viable when its completely outclassed by Garchomp and MGarchomp.
Garchomp is a better revenge killer and scarfer while MGarchomp is a better mixed sweeper.
I can see him being slapped on the NU section of the next edition of The Smog already...
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I've been using a mixed life orb set with great success, here it is
Hydregion @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 Atk 252 SpA 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
-Draco Meteor
-SuperPower
-Dark Pulse
-Heat Wave
I'm not sure if this is his best set or whether Heat Wave is outclassed by something else, but Heat Wave is still good because I don't see it used much so it has nice surprise factor.
Hydregion @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 Atk 252 SpA 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
-Draco Meteor
-SuperPower
-Dark Pulse
-Heat Wave
I'm not sure if this is his best set or whether Heat Wave is outclassed by something else, but Heat Wave is still good because I don't see it used much so it has nice surprise factor.
I've been using Hydra as a general attacker/somewhat bulky pivot on my team since Gen 6 started. It's consistently a standout performer, soaking hits, killing specific threats as well as slower pokemon, and denting counters to other pokemon, as well as its OWN counters.
This is the most effective set I've run:
Hydreigon (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Hp / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Roost
I originally ran a 16HP / 252SAtk / 240 Spd Timid (Enough to outspeed neutral 110's) but most pokemon in the 100-110 tier run +Spd nature anyway, so you might as well go for the extra power.
Draco is your nuke, and gives Hydreigon a pretty threatening presence once it's in. It goes without saying to use it with caution. Fire blast gives great coverage alongside Draco, nailing a lot of pokes that try to switch it on it. Earth power is for Heatran who loves to come on on Hydra, and its also your best bet against Tyranitar (If you really wanna kill Ttar, run Superpower instead). Roost lets you offset LO recoil, and Hydreigon has a lot of opportunies to do so as well.
While Hydra's resistances aren't as great as some of the other pokemon in OU, he tends to be a great gap filler and partners well with a bunch of pokemon: Azumarill, Togekiss, Ferrothorn, Aegislash, Skarmory, Scizor, Mawile etc. The 4x fairy weakness looks scary but there's nothing to really worry about as fairy type moves are predictable and are only really on Fairy-type Pokemon (which you have no business going up against anyway).
Hydreigon has a really diverse Movepool, and its tempting to run a steel move, but it generally dosen't end up being as effective as it seems. Instead pair him up with a Fairy killer to do that job and let the Hydra do his.
(If only he got Sheer force....)
This is the most effective set I've run:
Hydreigon (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Hp / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Roost
I originally ran a 16HP / 252SAtk / 240 Spd Timid (Enough to outspeed neutral 110's) but most pokemon in the 100-110 tier run +Spd nature anyway, so you might as well go for the extra power.
Draco is your nuke, and gives Hydreigon a pretty threatening presence once it's in. It goes without saying to use it with caution. Fire blast gives great coverage alongside Draco, nailing a lot of pokes that try to switch it on it. Earth power is for Heatran who loves to come on on Hydra, and its also your best bet against Tyranitar (If you really wanna kill Ttar, run Superpower instead). Roost lets you offset LO recoil, and Hydreigon has a lot of opportunies to do so as well.
While Hydra's resistances aren't as great as some of the other pokemon in OU, he tends to be a great gap filler and partners well with a bunch of pokemon: Azumarill, Togekiss, Ferrothorn, Aegislash, Skarmory, Scizor, Mawile etc. The 4x fairy weakness looks scary but there's nothing to really worry about as fairy type moves are predictable and are only really on Fairy-type Pokemon (which you have no business going up against anyway).
Hydreigon has a really diverse Movepool, and its tempting to run a steel move, but it generally dosen't end up being as effective as it seems. Instead pair him up with a Fairy killer to do that job and let the Hydra do his.
(If only he got Sheer force....)
Well Heat Wave is only for doubles or if a pokemon doesn't have access to another special Fire attack, and Hydreigon of course has both Flamethrower and Fire Blast. Since people pretty much expect Hydreigon to carry a Fire move, Heat Wave has no surprise factor in singles. To compare, Flamethrower has comparable power but more importantly 100% accuracy while Fire Blast has more power and a comparable 85% accuracy.
TBH I don't feel like speed EVs add that much to Hydreigon - or at least, not how I use him. For my team, I switch in Hydreigon on any of its resistances/immunities, which can then force a switch out thanks to Hydreigon's coverage threat. In this scenario, whether you outspeed or not doesn't matter. On the other hand, for attacker vs. attacker scenarios, the only things that really threaten Hydreigon 1 on 1 are Mold Breaker EQs, Fairies, and Dragons. Other Dragons will probably outspeed Hydreigon anyway if they invest in speed, and Hydreigon shouldn't be staying in on a Fairy under any circumstances. Beating Mold Breaker Excadrill is nice, but I seriously doubt it's worth making you worse against literally everything else. And it doesn't even beat that if Excadrill is scarfed. So instead of Speed EVs, I run:
Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
Mild Nature
- Dragon Pulse
- Fire Blast
- Superpower
- Roost
The extra HP wouldn't be that useful on most things with 90/90/90 defenses, but it works well for Hydreigon because of his good defensive typing. Strictly speaking this set isn't optimal overall - for the role I use Hydreigon for might benefit slightly more from U-turn over Superpower or another special coverage move, along with a Modest nature. The nice thing about Superpower is the damage it can do to special walls switching in - Blissey in particular hates eating one (Chansey not as much, but that's why we have Knock Off), and she otherwise walls most of my team. Although, the things I'm using Superpower on are things it'll usually one-shot anyway. You might be able to get away with Modest.
Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
Mild Nature
- Dragon Pulse
- Fire Blast
- Superpower
- Roost
The extra HP wouldn't be that useful on most things with 90/90/90 defenses, but it works well for Hydreigon because of his good defensive typing. Strictly speaking this set isn't optimal overall - for the role I use Hydreigon for might benefit slightly more from U-turn over Superpower or another special coverage move, along with a Modest nature. The nice thing about Superpower is the damage it can do to special walls switching in - Blissey in particular hates eating one (Chansey not as much, but that's why we have Knock Off), and she otherwise walls most of my team. Although, the things I'm using Superpower on are things it'll usually one-shot anyway. You might be able to get away with Modest.
I am curious to know how well this mixed set would pan out since Superpower is unavailable for the VGC 2014 now.
Mild/Rash with Life Orb 252 SpA/252 Spe/4 Atk
Draco Meteor
Dark Pulse
Earthquake
U-Turn
I know I could easily bring a Hydreigon from B/W 2 with Superpower but that couldn't be used in the VGC this year but I knew this set could be used. Thanks for lettin me know. Also I love Dark Pulse's new spamming abilities!
Mild/Rash with Life Orb 252 SpA/252 Spe/4 Atk
Draco Meteor
Dark Pulse
Earthquake
U-Turn
I know I could easily bring a Hydreigon from B/W 2 with Superpower but that couldn't be used in the VGC this year but I knew this set could be used. Thanks for lettin me know. Also I love Dark Pulse's new spamming abilities!
Well if it's for VGC, you may want to consider putting in Protect over U-turn or maybe Earthquake.
Actually, a lot of Fairies are surprised by Specs Flash Canon from Hydreigon.
252 SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Togekiss: 168-198 (44.9 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 153-180 (37.8 - 44.5%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 196-232 (49.7 - 58.8%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
A well timed Flash Cannon breaks some fairies down.
Dark Pulse is quite good. I think dual STAB on Dark / Dragon is good enough, now that Steels do not resist dark. Flash Cannon can be used for luring those fairies, and smacking them extremely hard.
I find that Hydreigon loses to random Dazzling Gleams from like... Gengar and Alakazam. So the 4x fairy weakness is a problem.
Even if you successfully predict the Azumarill switch a 96.1% chance of having to eat a Play Rough anyway is unpalatable to say the least. I'm not sure making for an extremely shaky check to Togekiss, Azumarill and Clefable warrants running Flash Cannon on Hydreigon. I notice you've left out Sylveon, no doubt because it makes your argument look a lot worse.
252 SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sylveon: 154-182 (39 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hydreigon: 600-708 (184.6 - 217.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Hydreigon really, really does not have any business staying in on anything with a Fairy typing not called Mawile (or Klefki, but that's UU now). Flash Cannon is an alluring trap.
252 SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sylveon: 154-182 (39 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hydreigon: 600-708 (184.6 - 217.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Hydreigon really, really does not have any business staying in on anything with a Fairy typing not called Mawile (or Klefki, but that's UU now). Flash Cannon is an alluring trap.
Well he only said some fairies, not all, but from the calc you provided it looks like Sylveon get mauled about the same as the others anyway.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mawile: 145-171 (47.6 - 56.2%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges: 148-176 (41.1 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Klefki: 157-185 (49.3 - 58.1%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Thats about every relevant fairy I can think of, and they all take about 40% minimum from flash cannon.
Naturally you don't stay on anything unless you can KO or are foddering, but those calcs mean that those pokemon can check Hydreigon only a few times. Since all of those pokemon are slower than Hydreigon, it means they can only stop the beastie once before they can no longer switch in.The advantage to running Flash Cannon isn't so that Hydreigon can check fairies, its so that fairies can't check Hydreigon. This is why it was called an uncounterable pokemon last gen, as nearly everything was 1 or 2hko'd, and its counters could only safely switch in a few times.
I haven't played around with many choice'd variants of Hydra but if you were to run Flash Cannon the biggest loss would be the coverage. Hydra already wants to run Draco Meteor, Fire Blast, Dark Pulse, Roost and Superpower before you consider a Steel move. I haven't tested Flash Cannon Hydra myself but I don't see how it couldn't be at least worth testing.
here's an idea; instead of predicting the Fairy switch-in and using Flash Cannon for 50%~ damage, how about you predict said switch-in and U-turn out to Scizor or Mawile and do some real damage, without running the risk of locking yourself into an exploitable move.
U-turn is one of the hydra's biggest assets; use it.
U-turn is one of the hydra's biggest assets; use it.
Any Fairy can OHKO back with their Fairy STAB of choice, whether it be Dazzling Gleam, Hyper Voice, Moonblast or Play Rough. Florges and Sylveon can wish back the damage up like it was nothing so your best bet is to U-turn to the appropiate counter.
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