Pokémon Hydreigon

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here's an idea; instead of predicting the Fairy switch-in and using Flash Cannon for 50%~ damage, how about you predict said switch-in and U-turn out to Scizor or Mawile and do some real damage, without running the risk of locking yourself into an exploitable move.

U-turn is one of the hydra's biggest assets; use it.

If you use U-Turn into Scizor, you hold onto momentum. But thats more of a HO kind of team. With U-Turn, you hold onto momentum, and then the opponent switches out. I don't deny the usefulness of momentum, but this is a fundamentally different play.

With Specs Flash Cannon, you get ~40% minimum on the opponent's fairy. The fairies with reliable recovery (Togekiss, Clefable) have a 2HKO chance (with Stealth Rocks, in the case of Togekiss).

Specs Flash Cannon is a lure set. If you're running double-dragons or something else that gets walled by fairies, simply run Hydreigon. I can almost guarantee you that any decent player will switch their fairy into Hydreigon, and BAM, the 2nd dragon is set up for an OUTRAGEous sweep. I mention Specs Flash Cannon because everyone knows about U-Turn Hydreigon. But Flash Cannon is more than adequate at luring and punishing fairy switchins, in a way that U-Turn is not able to.
 
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Certainly a fair point and one I'm happy to concede. However, you're still only doing 50%~ before the opponent realises it's Specs and takes advantage of the unSTAB'd poorly-typed 80BP attack. U-turn, on the other hand, is about as low-risk as they come and won't backfire in the unlikely event that the opponent goes to a non-Fairy like Blissey or Heatran. Flash Cannon has it's uses but they are very, very few and Hydreigon already has so many fantastic options (Draco Meteor, Dark Pulse, Fire Blast, Superpower, Roost, U-turn, Focus Blast, Earth Power...). I guess you can fit it in quite easily though since STABs + Flash Cannon handles pretty much everything and then you can have U-turn in that last slot for tactical flexibility.
 
The set I run is actually Specs Draco Meteor, Dark Pulse, U-Turn and Flash Cannon.

Flash Cannon is the coverage move. Contenders are Focus Blast (too inaccurate), Superpower (erm... 0- Atk Hydreigon Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 214-254 (30.3 - 36%) -- 48.2% chance to 3HKO ... not good enough IMO ), and Fire Blast (Dragon / Fire was a classic... but what does it get you over Dragon / Dark ??? Those Scollipede / Weavile switch-ins I guess... but no Bug, Steel, or Grass type really wants to switch into specs Dark Pulse. No, not even Bisharp:
252 SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 32 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 127-150 (45.5 - 53.7%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock )

Specs 252 Dark Pulse almost does the same as 0- Superpower vs Heatran (Specs Earth Power doesn't win vs Air Ballon). So really Superpower is only an option vs Tyranitar. Otherwise, Fairies are almost universally what wall the Hydreigon now.
 
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Does anyone else think a Work Up Mixed Attacker set would sound good on Hydreigon?

+1 252 Atk Hard Stone Hydreigon Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Florges: 347-409 (96.3 - 113.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

I avoided LO because, well, Head Smash + LO really doesn't mix well. It's either it outspeeds Haxorus or it sacrifices speed for wall breaking power:

Switching to a Naughty nature, Head Smash KOs SDef Florges, but PDef easily survives, taking 70~83%.

But a SE Flash Cannon has base 160 power as opposed to Head Smash's 150, so let's take a look:

+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Florges: 250-296 (69.4 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Life Orb preferred if we don't run Head Smash. SDef Florges takes even less.

If you'd like to run it, optimize a set. I don't think I will, though. It seems like Hydreigon would rather rely on his teammates.
 
I've been trying a scarf set, do you guys believe this is optimized?
Dies Irae (Hydreigon) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Atk
Hasty Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- U-turn
 
I've been trying a scarf set, do you guys believe this is optimized?
Dies Irae (Hydreigon) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Atk
Hasty Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- U-turn

Probably Mild Nature is fine, Hydreigon's speed tier is kinda awkward, with a scarf I don't think it benefits much from a positive speed nature.
 
Probably Mild Nature is fine, Hydreigon's speed tier is kinda awkward, with a scarf I don't think it benefits much from a positive speed nature.

Alright, thank you! It's been pretty neat so far, surprisingly not a lot of people expect a scarfed hydreigon (most assume specs) and once the team is weakened it cleans up very well
 
Quick question: is a Modest Nature still usable with a Scarf? Or does it lose out on a critical speed tier by doing so? My set was something like this:

Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
4 HP/ 252 SpA/ 252 Spd
Draco Meteor
Dark Pulse
Flash Cannon/insert appropriate coverage move here
U-Turn (probably better used without a -Atk nature, but it's what I've got)
 
Quick question: is a Modest Nature still usable with a Scarf? Or does it lose out on a critical speed tier by doing so? My set was something like this:

Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
4 HP/ 252 SpA/ 252 Spd
Draco Meteor
Dark Pulse
Flash Cannon/insert appropriate coverage move here
U-Turn (probably better used without a -Atk nature, but it's what I've got)
Hydreigon reaches 442 speed if it's Modest with a Choice Scarf, outspeeding every unscarfed pokemon bar Deoxys-S, which Hydreigon can't outspeed with a Timid Nature anyway. I'd probably run Modest as U-Turn is more for utility than damage. Most pokemon below 100 base speed tend not to run +Speed natures, so Hydreigon's 98 base speed will let it outspeed all common scarfers/+1 speed pokemon below 100 base speed.
 
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I like the Choice Scarf variant of Hydreigon much better than the others. I find Expert Belt to be useful at times but the Scarf is so good with Hydreigon.
 
I used to use an LO hydreigon until I found myself getting rekt by neutral hits, lol.
What's all this I'm hearing about Hydreigon in UU? I mean, it's still got phenomenal stats, a decent speed tier at that, and a great movepool. Granted, Choice specs Draco meteor may not be it's best option anymore, and unfortunately for hydreigon, most fairies this gen are specially bulky. That doesn't mean it should go to UU, I mean, look at scizor, it can't stay for a second when a fire type is on the field. It's still a reliable OU mon in every other way. Why doesn't this apply to hydreigon?

Also, how good does AV hydreigon sound? 92/90/90 defenses must have something to say about an AV.
 
I used to use an LO hydreigon until I found myself getting rekt by neutral hits, lol.
What's all this I'm hearing about Hydreigon in UU? I mean, it's still got phenomenal stats, a decent speed tier at that, and a great movepool. Granted, Choice specs Draco meteor may not be it's best option anymore, and unfortunately for hydreigon, most fairies this gen are specially bulky. That doesn't mean it should go to UU, I mean, look at scizor, it can't stay for a second when a fire type is on the field. It's still a reliable OU mon in every other way. Why doesn't this apply to hydreigon?

Also, how good does AV hydreigon sound? 92/90/90 defenses must have something to say about an AV.

People didn't think it was Broken enough. He'll just punch holes in everything not named Florges in UU.
I've used Hydreigon in OU quite a bit, and as long as you know what you're doing, it does extremely well. I love Hydreigon oh so very much. Haha, and I refuse to believe his x4 weakness to fairy is any reason for him to drop in my book.
 
I used to use an LO hydreigon until I found myself getting rekt by neutral hits, lol.
What's all this I'm hearing about Hydreigon in UU? I mean, it's still got phenomenal stats, a decent speed tier at that, and a great movepool. Granted, Choice specs Draco meteor may not be it's best option anymore, and unfortunately for hydreigon, most fairies this gen are specially bulky. That doesn't mean it should go to UU, I mean, look at scizor, it can't stay for a second when a fire type is on the field. It's still a reliable OU mon in every other way. Why doesn't this apply to hydreigon?

Also, how good does AV hydreigon sound? 92/90/90 defenses must have something to say about an AV.

In a tier that is almost entirely based on priority, there is a reason why Scizor is reliable in OU who gets technician STAB Bullet Punch, a STAB U-Turn, amazing defensive typing, and ability to Defog. Its a strong Pokemon, with great utility and can run different sets. And the Fire weakness never stopped a Pokemon from being viable, look at Ferrothorn, Genesect etc.. and a Fire weakness can be used for your own advantage when you have Heatran and the likes of Flash Fire Houndoom, who after Flash Fire and Mega Evolving, its Fire Blast can punch holes in most Pokemons, even those who resist Fire.

Hydreigon on the other hand has an awkward speed, which is not bad, but can be outspeed by many things. And everything Hydra can do, someone else can do it better. Do you want a special wallbreaker? Go for Keldeo or Charizard Y, you want a Scarfed revenge killer, go for Garchomp.
And for all the power Hyd possesses, it can't use Sword Dance, Calm Mind, Nasty Plot or even Dragon Dance, so it can't sweep without Sticky Web as it can get outspeed by many threats in OU.

I don't know how good was Hydreigon in BW2's meta as I never played BW2 but there are obvious reasons why its not doing that well in OU. Rise of the Fairies who resist both of it STABs and 1hko without any effort, and the dependance on priorities and the introduction of some fast Pokes like Greninja and Talonflame and items like Assault Vest, which can allow the likes of Conkeldurr, to sponge special hits made it hard for Hydra to shine.
 
In a tier that is almost entirely based on priority, there is a reason why Scizor is reliable in OU who gets technician STAB Bullet Punch, a STAB U-Turn, amazing defensive typing, and ability to Defog. Its a strong Pokemon, with great utility and can run different sets. And the Fire weakness never stopped a Pokemon from being viable, look at Ferrothorn, Genesect etc.. and a Fire weakness can be used for your own advantage when you have Heatran and the likes of Flash Fire Houndoom, who after Flash Fire and Mega Evolving, its Fire Blast can punch holes in most Pokemons, even those who resist Fire.

Hydreigon on the other hand has an awkward speed, which is not bad, but can be outspeed by many things. And everything Hydra can do, someone else can do it better. Do you want a special wallbreaker? Go for Keldeo or Charizard Y, you want a Scarfed revenge killer, go for Garchomp.
And for all the power Hyd possesses, it can't use Sword Dance, Calm Mind, Nasty Plot or even Dragon Dance, so it can't sweep without Sticky Web as it can get outspeed by many threats in OU.

I don't know how good was Hydreigon in BW2's meta as I never played BW2 but there are obvious reasons why its not doing that well in OU. Rise of the Fairies who resist both of it STABs and 1hko without any effort, and the dependance on priorities and the introduction of some fast Pokes like Greninja and Talonflame and items like Assault Vest, which can allow the likes of Conkeldurr, to sponge special hits made it hard for Hydra to shine.

I never said the fire type stopped anything from being viable. In fact, that was my point, a lot of the people I know say that hydra deserves to be UU for it's double weakness to fairy, which I disagreed with. Also, I love using scizor, so yeah.
Hydra however has a nice new toy in flash cannon, and some would say that would help, but mehh... neutral or not, it can't OHKO a thing, though it leaves a nice dent in some.
252+ SpA Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Sylveon: 136-160 (34.5 - 40.6%) -- 51.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 146-172 (52.5 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 112-132 (27.7 - 32.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 204-240 (51.7 - 60.9%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Togekiss: 150-178 (40.1 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO


Takes care of MMawile and Klefki quite nicely with fire blast tho.
Otherwise, thank you very much for clearing that up dear sir/ma'am.
 
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I never said the fire type stopped anything from being viable. In fact, that was my point, a lot of the people I know say that hydra deserves to be UU for it's double weakness to fairy, which I disagreed with.
Hydra however has a nice new toy in flash cannon, and some would say that would help, but mehh... neutral or not, it can't OHKO a thing, though it leaves a nice dent in some.
252+ SpA Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Sylveon: 136-160 (34.5 - 40.6%) -- 51.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 146-172 (52.5 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 112-132 (27.7 - 32.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 204-240 (51.7 - 60.9%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Togekiss: 150-178 (40.1 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO


Takes care of MMawile and Klefki quite nicely with fire blast tho.
Otherwise, thank you very much for clearing that up dear sir/ma'am.

I don't get why people like to run Flash Cannon on Hydreigon. Sure it can punish a Fairy that is switching in, but other than that its useless. Steel is not a good coverage option. Hydra would be better using something like Fire Blast, Earth Power, Focus Blast or Surf, as it gives it a better coverage as possible.

It's a shame that Hydreigon (And Metagross) are not faring well this generation. It's one of my top favourite Pokemons.

And you're welcome. :)
 
I never said the fire type stopped anything from being viable. In fact, that was my point, a lot of the people I know say that hydra deserves to be UU for it's double weakness to fairy, which I disagreed with.
Hydra however has a nice new toy in flash cannon, and some would say that would help, but mehh... neutral or not, it can't OHKO a thing, though it leaves a nice dent in some.
252+ SpA Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Sylveon: 136-160 (34.5 - 40.6%) -- 51.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 146-172 (52.5 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 112-132 (27.7 - 32.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 204-240 (51.7 - 60.9%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Togekiss: 150-178 (40.1 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO


Takes care of MMawile and Klefki quite nicely with fire blast tho.
Otherwise, thank you very much for clearing that up dear sir/ma'am.
If anything, Normal-types are usually prone to being placed in lower tiers (shut up, Blissey and Arceus).
 
This was one of the first Pokemon I ever competitively trained. I can't believe how well it turned out. I had mine go mixed with Earthquake, Draco Meteor, U-Turn & Crunch.
 
I never said the fire type stopped anything from being viable. In fact, that was my point, a lot of the people I know say that hydra deserves to be UU for it's double weakness to fairy, which I disagreed with.
Hydra however has a nice new toy in flash cannon, and some would say that would help, but mehh... neutral or not, it can't OHKO a thing, though it leaves a nice dent in some.
252+ SpA Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Sylveon: 136-160 (34.5 - 40.6%) -- 51.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 146-172 (52.5 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 112-132 (27.7 - 32.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 204-240 (51.7 - 60.9%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Togekiss: 150-178 (40.1 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO


Takes care of MMawile and Klefki quite nicely with fire blast tho.
Otherwise, thank you very much for clearing that up dear sir/ma'am.
Those numbers look nice, but consider:
1) sylveon: wish
2) mgard: dbond
3) azu: not even a scratch lol
4) clefable: wish
5) togekiss: wish
All of which can also fire off a powerful fairy move or set up cm/np in your face
 
Right now I'm using a specs set, with Draco Meteor, Flamethrower, Dark Pulse, Flash Cannon. It hits pretty hard, but is better to save him for mid/late game. And I realized that often Dark Pulse is the safest choice, usually is the one move with less resistance in opposing teams.
 
Those numbers look nice, but consider:
1) sylveon: wish
2) mgard: dbond
3) azu: not even a scratch lol
4) clefable: wish
5) togekiss: wish
All of which can also fire off a powerful fairy move or set up cm/np in your face

Not really. If you have a Choice Specs and they switch in recklessly, you can go for the 2HKO (granted they will know that it's specs by the damage output but this means their fairy is now heavily dented. See the calcs below:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Sylveon: 204-240 (51.7 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 216-256 (54.8 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 167-197 (41.3 - 48.7%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Togekiss: 182-216 (48.6 - 57.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 216-256 (77.6 - 92%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

The only fairy you can't kill like this is AV Azumarill who takes nothing from it

252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 16 HP / 240 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 86-102 (24.9 - 29.5%) -- 0.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
 
With access to U-Turn there is zero reason for Hydra to sit in on a Fairy or attempt a lame Flash Cannon. Enemy has an Azumarill? Switch to your Rotom-W/Mega Venusaur. Clefable? Skarmory/Bisharp. Take advantage of being a Fairy magnet and keep your momentum. Hydra should abuse its typing as a unique pivot. With several amazing resistances (Fire, Water, Grass, Electric, Ghost and Dark) two immunities (Psychic and Ground), and immunity to Spikes and Sticky Web with Roost and U-Turn you can almost endlessly harass your enemy with your bulk, and even Pursuit trap. No other Dragon has that set of resistances and movepool, and people need to capitalize on that.
 
Any Fairy can OHKO back with their Fairy STAB of choice, whether it be Dazzling Gleam, Hyper Voice, Moonblast or Play Rough. Florges and Sylveon can wish back the damage up like it was nothing so your best bet is to U-turn to the appropiate counter.

There are pokemon with 4x weaknesses? I'm shocked.
 
Not really. If you have a Choice Specs and they switch in recklessly, you can go for the 2HKO (granted they will know that it's specs by the damage output but this means their fairy is now heavily dented. See the calcs below:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Sylveon: 204-240 (51.7 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 216-256 (54.8 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 167-197 (41.3 - 48.7%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Togekiss: 182-216 (48.6 - 57.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 216-256 (77.6 - 92%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

The only fairy you can't kill like this is AV Azumarill who takes nothing from it

252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 16 HP / 240 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 86-102 (24.9 - 29.5%) -- 0.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
If you really want flash cannon then go ahead - i would not use a steel move just for fairies which i find that most physical attackers on my team can beat 1v1 and even switch in as they set up wish or np/cm.

On a side note, i see earth power as a listed egg move on pokemondb. Is that a mistake or is it unavailable now? Because heatran is a cunt and i want to run timid/modest
 
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