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Hydreigon
- Thread starter R.B.G.
- Start date
It's too vague to tell really, the only move that's not optional on there is surf, and Sazandra doesn't really have the instant speed or special attack to properly abuse a berry, the reason Empoleon works so well is because it can boost Speed as well as it's Sp.Atk. Maybe Sazandra could run...
Sazandra @ Salac Berry
252 Attack, 252 Spe, 4 SpAtk
Naive(?)
-Surf
-Dragon Rush/Outrage
-Cheer Up
-Substitute
Surf will hit almost everything that resists your dragon attacks for neutral and Sazandra's special attack is like 286 without any EV's, not too bad, likewise his attack hits 309, not that great but after a Cheer Up boost it'll be enough to hurt alot of things. Substitute prevents dragon tail and status from screwing you over, and let's Sazandra take a hit if he needs to, forces the Salac boost faster too.
Sazandra @ Salac Berry
252 Attack, 252 Spe, 4 SpAtk
Naive(?)
-Surf
-Dragon Rush/Outrage
-Cheer Up
-Substitute
Surf will hit almost everything that resists your dragon attacks for neutral and Sazandra's special attack is like 286 without any EV's, not too bad, likewise his attack hits 309, not that great but after a Cheer Up boost it'll be enough to hurt alot of things. Substitute prevents dragon tail and status from screwing you over, and let's Sazandra take a hit if he needs to, forces the Salac boost faster too.
Having played around with Sazandora for a bit I'm inclined to say I agree with this. If you aren't running Scarf or Specs then going for a slower set with either mixed offense or more bulk is the way to go.
the thing is...it's not THAT bad but yeah disappointing
it just leaves the thoughts of only-if's
it's great that it can outrun base 95s and also notably onono though
I've been using:
Sazandora @ Expert Belt
Modest / Levitate
(I forget the EVs, but it's max SpA, enough speed to beat Adamant Luke, and then the rest in HP.)
- Dragon Pulse
- Dark Pulse
- Flamethrower
- U-Turn
Great for luring Blissey out, U-Turning to Shandera and setting up. Or just plain smashing face.
Sazandora @ Expert Belt
Modest / Levitate
(I forget the EVs, but it's max SpA, enough speed to beat Adamant Luke, and then the rest in HP.)
- Dragon Pulse
- Dark Pulse
- Flamethrower
- U-Turn
Great for luring Blissey out, U-Turning to Shandera and setting up. Or just plain smashing face.
only problem with ono is that sazandora is dead if ono sets up even one dd. because of that, sazandora is not the best counter to ono. if you are running scarf, ono will set up 2 dds.
We must call one of these sets [Sazan]Dora the Explorer! I mean, that fits perfectly with its role as a scout. Plus, no one wants to get owned by a reference to an annoying little spanish girl. A U-Turning set would be just as annoying when it isn't bothering you with Draco Meteors. This should seriously be considered!
Since Dora is so annoying the set could follow a similar pattern...Although it wouldn't be effective at all, how much would this moveset piss you off?
Thunder Wave/Torment/Protect/Reflect
There's a tonne of "annoying" options in the movepool such as:
Thunder Wave/Toxic/Torment/Protect/Reflect/Taunt/Roar/Attract/Swagger/Rest+Sub combo
Of course this isn't the most effective set but on hard-to-play-against gimmick teams it could find its own cliche.
Since Dora is so annoying the set could follow a similar pattern...Although it wouldn't be effective at all, how much would this moveset piss you off?
Thunder Wave/Torment/Protect/Reflect
There's a tonne of "annoying" options in the movepool such as:
Thunder Wave/Toxic/Torment/Protect/Reflect/Taunt/Roar/Attract/Swagger/Rest+Sub combo
Of course this isn't the most effective set but on hard-to-play-against gimmick teams it could find its own cliche.
I am not sure why my post was deleted but this is what i said to your post.
It's already being discussed in the onono's thread but it will be, first and formost, very hard to set up DD twice. Sazandora isn't a counter to ono by any means but a check. That one point difference in speed can make all the difference.
edit: also tried this guy in dream world and wifi servers on PO for a while and am I the only one that feels like pretty much all his sets can be done better by others for the most part? Its scarf and specs sets by latios/latias/chomp (chomp = only for scarf) and its mixed set bested by mence? I do know its niche (u-turn, loltopusuit, levitate, no sr weakness) but that...98 speed is just...so disappointing. ALl its sets are fantastic but it's just...I always feel like something is missing whenever I play him.
I feel the exact same way.
After trying several sets, Specs really was the most effective in my experience. Almost impossible to switch into. However, even that set is largely outclassed by Latios while he remains in OU. :/
However, the Wall Breaker sets are still very good against more defensive teams, breaking apart the popular Nattorei/Burunkeru/Hippowdon Cores and such.
Well, for one, Sazandora resist Pursuit rather than being weak to it, which means he won't attaract Ttar or Weavile. He also has U-turn to supplement his huge Sp. Att, which can get him off scott free into a Shadow Tagger, or just scout the team out before he starts tossing around Draco Meteors. Also, Latios has a slightly more difficult time KOing Steels in general because he doesn't have Fire Blast. Don't expect Draco Meteor into HP Fire to kill Nattorei.
As I mentioned in my prev post...yeah he got couple of things like u-turn, no sr weakness+pursuit weakness and such but I feel like it's still not enough to top him over the others like latis,chomp, and mence. not to mention his fighting weakness just straight out sucks esp with so many mach punchers around, esp roobushin
I've thrown a scout/shuffler set together and it seems pretty viable.
Set name: Dora the Explorer
Sazandora @ Leftovers/Muscle Belt/Draco Plate/Unsure of what would be better, Lum berry?
252 SpAtk, 252 Spe, 4 Hp
Naive
-Roar
-U-Turn
-Dracon Meteor
-Flamethrower
The premise is to come in on something you'll scare out and use roar on their switch. Now you are against a pokemon who is NOT their best Sazandora counter. If they try switching again they run the risk of another roar (ie. residual damage on 2 pokemon) but if they stay in they likely don't have a go-to option to beat Dora who can threaten with Draco Meteor and Flamethrower(Neutral vs all but Tran). Also you can U-turn out if you're faster. T-Wave could be run on this set if you see a move not being used often enough to guarantee outspeeding switchins who aren't immune, thus helping the shuffling.
Generally this set's role is to set up matchups that are in your favor. If they manage to get a counter in that is slower than Dora, just U-turn to an advantageous poke. If the counter is faster just switch normally. Even if you predict wrong you always seem to have a safety net.
I truly believe Sazandora makes a fine shuffler and has the bulk to carry this plan out several times. Obviously entry hazard and wish support would truly allow this set to weaken entire teams to prepare for a sweep. Let me know what you guys think.
And with U-turn(Scout) and Roar(Shuffle), this SazanDora really is an explorer!
Set name: Dora the Explorer
Sazandora @ Leftovers/Muscle Belt/Draco Plate/Unsure of what would be better, Lum berry?
252 SpAtk, 252 Spe, 4 Hp
Naive
-Roar
-U-Turn
-Dracon Meteor
-Flamethrower
The premise is to come in on something you'll scare out and use roar on their switch. Now you are against a pokemon who is NOT their best Sazandora counter. If they try switching again they run the risk of another roar (ie. residual damage on 2 pokemon) but if they stay in they likely don't have a go-to option to beat Dora who can threaten with Draco Meteor and Flamethrower(Neutral vs all but Tran). Also you can U-turn out if you're faster. T-Wave could be run on this set if you see a move not being used often enough to guarantee outspeeding switchins who aren't immune, thus helping the shuffling.
Generally this set's role is to set up matchups that are in your favor. If they manage to get a counter in that is slower than Dora, just U-turn to an advantageous poke. If the counter is faster just switch normally. Even if you predict wrong you always seem to have a safety net.
I truly believe Sazandora makes a fine shuffler and has the bulk to carry this plan out several times. Obviously entry hazard and wish support would truly allow this set to weaken entire teams to prepare for a sweep. Let me know what you guys think.
And with U-turn(Scout) and Roar(Shuffle), this SazanDora really is an explorer!
Which kind of Sazandra would be best to handle a most likely non-choice Origin Forme Giratina? Sazandra naturally outspeeds but this Giratina will most likely invest heavily in Speed and/or Attack/Sp. Attack. My friend is using this Giratina and he isn't a competitive battler so he's a tad unpredictable.
Sazandora has awesome typing. Dark and Dragon resist some cool things in this metagame. On top of that, it actually has the stats to hurt whatever switches in, and it has an awesome movepool to boot. STAB Draco Meteor, Fire Blast/Flamethrower, STAB Dragon Pulse, STAB Dark Pulse, U-Turn, Levitate, no SR weak, there's no question that this pokemon will be OU on our first tier list.
With that said, my only problem is deciding what moveset to use. The Life Orb mixed attacker is annoyingly slow, and the choice scarf set kind of makes this thing's movepool useless without boss predix.
I feel obligated to point out some of its weaknesses though. Its Speed Tier is BS. 98? Are you kidding? This makes me even more thankful that Gamefreak made Garchomp. Nigslammer is also crippled by paralysis. It's also weak to the most common priority move in OU right now, Mach Punch (and it's easy for those Fighters to come in thanks to Dark Pulse). Sazandora is also big Ditto bait since it resists one of its own STABs and also its Fire move. Its Dark Pulse and Dragon move also allow Doryuuzu to come in and wreak havoc. It is also incredibly susceptible to U-turns itself, with its 2x weakness.
I still like it though.
With that said, my only problem is deciding what moveset to use. The Life Orb mixed attacker is annoyingly slow, and the choice scarf set kind of makes this thing's movepool useless without boss predix.
I feel obligated to point out some of its weaknesses though. Its Speed Tier is BS. 98? Are you kidding? This makes me even more thankful that Gamefreak made Garchomp. Nigslammer is also crippled by paralysis. It's also weak to the most common priority move in OU right now, Mach Punch (and it's easy for those Fighters to come in thanks to Dark Pulse). Sazandora is also big Ditto bait since it resists one of its own STABs and also its Fire move. Its Dark Pulse and Dragon move also allow Doryuuzu to come in and wreak havoc. It is also incredibly susceptible to U-turns itself, with its 2x weakness.
I still like it though.
I've been using Dragon Pulse/Fire Blast/Surf/U-Turn with Paralysis support and by jove this this is deadly. Is Dark Pulse really worth a slot? I haven't come across a time when I'd need it really, as Dragon Pulse does most of the damage. Erufuun and Jirachi have been great supporters, with TWave/Wish and Stun Spore respectively.
It's sure popular, but that weakness to Fighting moves is the deal breaker. Sooooo many things have fighting moves these days. Mach Punch is it's worst enemy. Plus there's all the Close Combats and Focus Blasts. Three of my pokemon have fighting moves so this thing has never been an issue for me personally. It would be a beast with more speed.
Salamence is my Dragon of choice myself.
Salamence is my Dragon of choice myself.
I only thing I don't like about Scarf Sazandora is the fact that he has base 98 Speed. I like my Scarf Dragons to be able to revenge kill DD Mence. It's as if Game Freak thought they need to "make it up to everyone" by taking away 2 base points from Sazandora because they added 2 extra to Garchomp back in 2007.
Hmm . . . in the last generation, Specs Kingdra worked very well for me despite having inferior speed to his fellow dragons. Granted part of Kingdra's success came from the fact that Blissey wouldn't switch on something possibly looking to Dragon Dance. That said, what really made it tick was having insane special attacking capabilities attached to no SR weak or 4x weak.
I do think 98 base speed is a big disappointment, but it doesn't change the fact that this is perfectly built for wall-breaking, especially on the special side. With SR neutral and levitate, and pursuit/u-turn resists, this is arguably the most durable dragon outside flygon!
I do think 98 base speed is a big disappointment, but it doesn't change the fact that this is perfectly built for wall-breaking, especially on the special side. With SR neutral and levitate, and pursuit/u-turn resists, this is arguably the most durable dragon outside flygon!
This, exactly. I was running Mixed LO Sazandora from the beginning - why try to fix a speed that's slow in this game instead of playing to her strengths? No 4x weakness is nice. She will be able to survive a hit, has a few solid resistances, and can generally pick up 2 kills.
It's nice when opponents think they're home free after I use Draco Meteor and it gets followed immediately by Outrage, too. =)
He's weak to U-Turn, he doesn't resist it.