Idea for a Pokemon Wii Game

[Darkartisan]

My god, still ingenuine ideas! If you guys want to be a part of it just put it in your posts. Right now i'm on vacation, so I will update possibly (and hopefully) tonight.

 

[Felix91]

My god, still ingenuine ideas! If you guys want to be a part of it just put it in your posts. Right now i'm on vacation, so I will update possibly (and hopefully) tonight.

I want to be a part of it, if possible. I'm not too experienced but I can learn, and I always have ideas.

 

[Solstice]

For attacking, instead of targets and making it more like a shooting game, how about its like Legend of Zelda, with L-Targeting. That way you can lock on without aiming, but some moves you can't lock on with, like OHKO moves. And maybe some moves, like Ice Beam, have targets, but I dislike the idea of all of them.

 

[Xia]

My god, still ingenuine ideas! If you guys want to be a part of it just put it in your posts.

Xia here, reporting for duty! =]

Concerning the Lock-On, I like the idea that Solstice came up with. Perhaps only moves with 80-100% Accuracy in the handheld games should be able to lock on? That would make using Horn Drilll and the like harder, and also work well with the status inducers (Hypnosis' 60% accuracy, for example, would mean no auto lock, and therefore make using it as risky as using it in the D/P/Pt environment).

Also, concering (I like that word) Pokemon Size and Lock-On capabilities. Seeing as every Pokemon has a certain Evasion level, would we be able to assume that Legends would be able to parry attacks better that, say, the standard Ratata? That's how I saw it working.

We could, actually, use Speed as an evasion category. The more health the foe has, that faster it moves, and the better at evading moves it is. That would go well with darkartisian's pokemon catching idea, where the less HP a Pokemon has the slower it moves. Pokemon with a higher Speed Stat (Ratata) would make for harder to hit targets, whereas slower Pokemon (Caterpie) would make for target practice.

I've got more, but I have to leave. Updates in a little but.

 

[Solstice]

For Size, it will definately have to be a factor, but I think there's a way to work around it. The way Im imagining it, picture say... Onix against Corsola. Corsola has the advantage, because the terrain is a platform on water. Now, this is what I call the Evasion-Size Balance.

Both Pokemon are level 20, and their stats are still pretty similar, but there are 2 new stats, Size and Evasion. They both are on a scale from 1-10, and both stats add up to then when put together.

Onix has a Size of 8, but an evasion of 2, Corsola has a size of 3, but an evasion of 7. Higher evasion is better against bigger size. And lower size does better against high evasion. So, since Corsola has higher evasion and a terrain boost, she would ultimately win the battle.

Another example to clear this up. Poliwrath against Claydol. They both have a Size of 5 and an Evasion of 5. This means that there are no advantages either way, since they are on a Normal boosted terrain. But, switch Claydol in for Swellow, who has a size of 4 and an evasion of 6, and she has the advatage of having a smaller size against an opponent with decent evasion.

 

[Felix91]

Xia here, reporting for duty! =]

Concerning the Lock-On, I like the idea that Solstice came up with. Perhaps only moves with 80-100% Accuracy in the handheld games should be able to lock on? That would make using Horn Drilll and the like harder, and also work well with the status inducers (Hypnosis' 60% accuracy, for example, would mean no auto lock, and therefore make using it as risky as using it in the D/P/Pt environment).

Also, concering (I like that word) Pokemon Size and Lock-On capabilities. Seeing as every Pokemon has a certain Evasion level, would we be able to assume that Legends would be able to parry attacks better that, say, the standard Ratata? That's how I saw it working.

We could, actually, use Speed as an evasion category. The more health the foe has, that faster it moves, and the better at evading moves it is. That would go well with darkartisian's pokemon catching idea, where the less HP a Pokemon has the slower it moves. Pokemon with a higher Speed Stat (Ratata) would make for harder to hit targets, whereas slower Pokemon (Caterpie) would make for target practice.

I've got more, but I have to leave. Updates in a little but.

Quick response:

I'm thinking instead of a point-and-click kind of thing... It could be (like you said) some moves with good accuracy lock-on well. Something like this...

100% accuracy--> Very accurate lock-on
95% accuracy --> Short lag time on the lock-on... maybe 0.1 seconds? You'll still be able to move and aim to hit, but you won't get as much assistance
90%--> .2 lag
85%--> .3
80%--> .4

Obviously those numbers can change after we get into alpha/beta testing of this. The lag could be too much or not enough.

And I guess anything below 80% accuracy would be controlled by the user. I.e. you get in range and turn toward the enemy and then attack, without cpu assistance.

This brings up another discussion about the range of attacks... would this be a new element to the game? Certain moves like Ice Beam or Hyper Beam would have to be able to hit an opponent farther away than, say, Scratch?

That's all for now.

 

[Felix91]

For Size, it will definately have to be a factor, but I think there's a way to work around it. The way Im imagining it, picture say... Onix against Corsola. Corsola has the advantage, because the terrain is a platform on water. Now, this is what I call the Evasion-Size Balance.

Both Pokemon are level 20, and their stats are still pretty similar, but there are 2 new stats, Size and Evasion. They both are on a scale from 1-10, and both stats add up to then when put together.

Onix has a Size of 8, but an evasion of 2, Corsola has a size of 3, but an evasion of 7. Higher evasion is better against bigger size. And lower size does better against high evasion. So, since Corsola has higher evasion and a terrain boost, she would ultimately win the battle.

Another example to clear this up. Poliwrath against Claydol. They both have a Size of 5 and an Evasion of 5. This means that there are no advantages either way, since they are on a Normal boosted terrain. But, switch Claydol in for Swellow, who has a size of 4 and an evasion of 6, and she has the advatage of having a smaller size against an opponent with decent evasion.

I like this idea. It seems like it could balance this issue quite well.

would it always be 2 opposite sides of the spectrum (1-9, 2-8, 3-7, etc?)

 

[Xia]

Quick response:

I'm thinking instead of a point-and-click kind of thing... It could be (like you said) some moves with good accuracy lock-on well. Something like this...

100% accuracy--> Very accurate lock-on
95% accuracy --> Short lag time on the lock-on... maybe 0.1 seconds? You'll still be able to move and aim to hit, but you won't get as much assistance
90%--> .2 lag
85%--> .3
80%--> .4

Obviously those numbers can change after we get into alpha/beta testing of this. The lag could be too much or not enough.

And I guess anything below 80% accuracy would be controlled by the user. I.e. you get in range and turn toward the enemy and then attack, without cpu assistance.

That pretty muched summed up everything I was trying to say.

This brings up another discussion about the range of attacks... would this be a new element to the game? Certain moves like Ice Beam or Hyper Beam would have to be able to hit an opponent farther away than, say, Scratch?

This is going to be a tough one. Not too sure how to implement that, but it does need addressed. Perhaps the Hyper Beam-esque moves would be like firing a missle towards the opponent?

Of course not all Special Attacks would be able to have long-range capabilities, and some Physical attacks would have to take advantage of the "missle" aspect. I'm looking at things like Seed Bomb and Fury Attack. We would have to find a balance, or at least a rough equality between long-range and short-range attacks in each Attack category.

I like this idea. It seems like it could balance this issue quite well.

would it always be 2 opposite sides of the spectrum (1-9, 2-8, 3-7, etc?)

Not always. Let's use Raichu as an example. Raichu's fairly big, but his speed is also large. His numbers might place him in the 5 size and 8 evasion.

I like this concept, but the rough edges need smoothed out. I'm in no way trying to mini'mod this idea, but the concept seems like a rough draft at this time and ould need a lot of work to make it applicable to all Pokemon.

 

[Felix91]

That pretty muched summed up everything I was trying to say.

:)

This is going to be a tough one. Not too sure how to implement that, but it does need addressed. Perhaps the Hyper Beam-esque moves would be like firing a missle towards the opponent?

I'm not sure if I like a missile idea, but it seems like the only way to do it.

You could try and make an actual "beam" but that may be hard to implement.

Of course not all Special Attacks would be able to have long-range capabilities, and some Physical attacks would have to take advantage of the "missle" aspect. I'm looking at things like Seed Bomb and Fury Attack. We would have to find a balance, or at least a rough equality between long-range and short-range attacks in each Attack category.

Sounds good

Not always. Let's use Raichu as an example. Raichu's fairly big, but his speed is also large. His numbers might place him in the 5 size and 8 evasion.

I like this concept, but the rough edges need smoothed out. I'm in no way trying to mini'mod this idea, but the concept seems like a rough draft at this time and ould need a lot of work to make it applicable to all Pokemon.

I agree, although the 1-9, 3-7, etc thing would simplify this aspect quite a bit.

I'm gonna ask this again:
How much are you trying to make this game vary from the standard pokemon game style? (I know it's a broad question...) Because this sounds like a great game, but not quite the same as a "regular" pokemon game. That's fine, but I just want to know the extent of it. Because I have a few ideas... (Move Combos, anyone? More than 4 moves? Custom moves, if that's possible?)

 

[Xia]

I agree, although the 1-9, 3-7, etc thing would simplify this aspect quite a bit.

If we did that, then everything's total would be 10. If everything equals ten, would there be any differences? I'm not trying to step on toes, but this idea needs a lot of work before we settle into using it.

I'm gonna ask this again:
How much are you trying to make this game vary from the standard pokemon game style? (I know it's a broad question...) Because this sounds like a great game, but not quite the same as a "regular" pokemon game. That's fine, but I just want to know the extent of it. Because I have a few ideas... (Move Combos, anyone? More than 4 moves? Custom moves, if that's possible?)

I thought I said something about this. >_> Anyway, Move Combos sound awesome. I know we're getting way away from what GameFreak has made that standard for Pokemon, but I think their take on this has gotten a little stale. Let's try and implement some of this stuff.

If Move Combos were implemented, would they be a chain of two to four moves? I'm talking like a Confuse Ray-Thunder Wave-Headbutt HAX combo, or would there be actual moves that would have to corelate?

An idea would be to take a glance at how moves are linked in the R/S/E competitions. I can't remember many of them, but wasn't there something like using Quick Attack and Double Team together to score more points? We could just adopt this strategy for linking moves together, but that might lead to button-mashing.

I think to keep with some of Pokemon's strategy, 4 moves are a required aspect. I mean, if there was no limit on the number of moves you could learn, Ttar would rip everything a new one. No, four moves are there to combine power and strategy, imo.

Not sure how to address the custom moves, I think that call would have to be up to dark.

 

[Felix91]

If we did that, then everything's total would be 10. If everything equals ten, would there be any differences? I'm not trying to step on toes, but this idea needs a lot of work before we settle into using it.

I might edit in a response with some ideas here later

I thought I said something about this. >_> Anyway, Move Combos sound awesome. I know we're getting way away from what GameFreak has made that standard for Pokemon, but I think their take on this has gotten a little stale. Let's try and implement some of this stuff.
----
I completely agree. Adding new pokemon and a different story (usually with the same general idea...) is getting stale, and will eventually cause a loss of interest, i'm thinking. So why not change that now? New things should spark more interest if implemented well

If Move Combos were implemented, would they be a chain of two to four moves? I'm talking like a Confuse Ray-Thunder Wave-Headbutt HAX combo, or would there be actual moves that would have to corelate?
Well, that could work, or it could be something like this:
(This is getting into other aspects of the game... but I'll try to save that for later)
Let's say, a pokemon beats a dungeon, or wins a contest or something like that. It earns points, maybe, and by buying something from the Auction house (that was the idea, right?) it gets a set of 2-4 moves that, when operated in succession, make a very strong attack, or strong attacks, or some big stat boost... basically think of it as a Final Smash in SSBB, except you have to make a little bit of effort.

It would be like "X Dungeon [insert type here, or some other characteristic] Combo Set"
and you would earn it by beating something or buying it.
It would contain 2-4 moves (your HAX combo, for example, except it would be more powerful). Am I making sense?

I can expand on this later

Oh and a "Combo Modifier" button would HAVE to be used if we implement this. It would prevent the simple use of 2-4 moves in a row, and allow the combo to be made instead


An idea would be to take a glance at how moves are linked in the R/S/E competitions. I can't remember many of them, but wasn't there something like using Quick Attack and Double Team together to score more points? We could just adopt this strategy for linking moves together, but that might lead to button-mashing.

I wasn't aware of that, but if you could find an article or something on that, I can look into that.

I think to keep with some of Pokemon's strategy, 4 moves are a required aspect. I mean, if there was no limit on the number of moves you could learn, Ttar would rip everything a new one. No, four moves are there to combine power and strategy, imo.
Right, I didn't mean no limit, I was just thinking maybe 5 or 6. But we may need the extra buttons for other functions

Not sure how to address the custom moves, I think that call would have to be up to dark.
That would be extremely hard to implement, actually. I could be wrong, but it definitely seems like it would be... Perhaps a better idea would be to get some ideas (from within this group or throughout Smogon/another place) on some new moves, new pokemon, new abilities, new items, etc. This would be a great way to get user input, and it would be incentive for other people to make an effort to help because they could end up with their idea in a game

Comments in BOLD

 

[Xia]

Felix91, instead of quoting everything you just said, I'll just say what I want to and get this done quickly.

If we do the move combo, would it be possible for that to be a button mashing series? I mean, the harder the combination, the longer the code, the less time you have to press the right buttons. We could make this the special attack (see darkartisian's LEAF BLADEE! post) that each Pokemon gets. Also, would this move only pertain to one Pokemon, or would it be a typing thing where only fire Pokemon can learn the Fire Dungeon Combo or whatever? That would make more sense, considering we're not trying to create another Arceus/Mew/Pokegod

Also, the Imporium idea was going to be part of Wiimon II game, NOT the origional Wiimon games. However, if we continue with the Game Corners, Combos could be another thing that people can shell out coins for.

The competition I was talking about were the Contests. I was drawing a blank on their name. Serebii has a link that explains the Contest combos: http://serebii.net/pokemon_advance/contest-combo.shtml
If that doesn't explain what I'm talking about, then disregard it, it was just a random thought.

Also, I thought this was just a typical console Pokemon game in terms of not creating anything new. It's not that I don't want to, but if we did get into that, there would be so much more to work through and then GameFreak may not even like the ideas and throw them out anyway. I'm getting scatterbrained a bit, once darkartisian's loged on, we need to set up a plan and draw up a plan or checklist so we can tackle each problem in turn.

 

[Felix91]

Felix91, instead of quoting everything you just said, I'll just say what I want to and get this done quickly.

If we do the move combo, would it be possible for that to be a button mashing series? I mean, the harder the combination, the longer the code, the less time you have to press the right buttons. We could make this the special attack (see darkartisian's LEAF BLADEE! post) that each Pokemon gets. Also, would this move only pertain to one Pokemon, or would it be a typing thing where only fire Pokemon can learn the Fire Dungeon Combo or whatever? That would make more sense, considering we're not trying to create another Arceus/Mew/Pokegod

Also, the Imporium idea was going to be part of Wiimon II game, NOT the origional Wiimon games. However, if we continue with the Game Corners, Combos could be another thing that people can shell out coins for.

The competition I was talking about were the Contests. I was drawing a blank on their name. Serebii has a link that explains the Contest combos: http://serebii.net/pokemon_advance/contest-combo.shtml
If that doesn't explain what I'm talking about, then disregard it, it was just a random thought.

Also, I thought this was just a typical console Pokemon game in terms of not creating anything new. It's not that I don't want to, but if we did get into that, there would be so much more to work through and then GameFreak may not even like the ideas and throw them out anyway. I'm getting scatterbrained a bit, once darkartisian's loged on, we need to set up a plan and draw up a plan or checklist so we can tackle each problem in turn.

I really don't have time to respond to this adequately right now... So I'll just leave it at this: (by paragraph_
Yes, I think Combos would go by type like what you said

So basically, either way this would be feasible to be a prize/product to earn/purchase?

No, I don't think combos would be quite like the contest combos... but the same general idea I guess.

That's a good point, and I do think we should wait.

 

[Xia]

Well ok then, we're gonna halt adding until darkartisian comes back, whenever that is. Darkartisain, we just need an outline or a direction to go in right now. What do you want to see done first, or what seems to be the most vague? I don't want this to become so complex that you don't recognise your brainchild.

EDIT: Also, how many games are we going with? I see two on the first post, but I just wanna check. In that same vein, do you want o go with the split-up that I came up with (only like 235 Pokemon per game)? If so, we should discuss who goes where and that jazz.

 

[Felix91]

Well ok then, we're gonna halt adding until darkartisian comes back, whenever that is. Darkartisain, we just need an outline or a direction to go in right now. What do you want to see done first, or what seems to be the most vague? I don't want this to become so complex that you don't recognise your brainchild.

That's exactly what I was beginning to think... All of these things would make a great end-product... but the features should probably be implemented slowly, if at all, through multiple versions/releases.

Edit- Darkartisan is on now. Just FYI.

 

[Felix91]

EDIT: Also, how many games are we going with? I see two on the first post, but I just wanna check. In that same vein, do you want o go with the split-up that I came up with (only like 235 Pokemon per game)? If so, we should discuss who goes where and that jazz.

That's an interesting concept...

I think it would be a tough sell though, 100 bucks for /basically/ one game.

The regular games are more like... 450 each +20ish exclusive (that was a random estimate/guess at those numbers)

But if we do I think it would be kinda fun to divide them up. :)

Also, I noticed in the first post that Darkartisan has already decided the basic kanto setup for the gyms... we could go ahead and work on that for other versions.

 

[Darkartisan]

Jesus, Busch Gardens is 4 hours away from my house -.-'
Alright, I honestly think that targeting should have more precise "custom targets." Such as, obviously, Tackle is 100% accuracy, so it should have a nice sized target, while moves like Horn drill should have no target at all. "Missle moves", such as Bullet seed, should be shot in the air like the way a basketball arcs, the size of baseballs, and then rain down on the opposition, while moves such as Seed Bomb will be the size of a basketball, and explode into bullet seeds. You copy?

Size will matter, and so will the defensive and Sp defensive stats. Pokemon such as Scizor, Scyther and Heracross should be able to "parry" attacks with their horn/claws, and special attacks should have a "dodge rate", but the whole difference between Sp and Physical attacks is that Physical attacks can be dodged and parried, but if you parry an attack (which is harder), you get a random boost in one stat(such as a +1 speed or attack boost.)

Legends should have a much higher parry rate, which makes it smart to not go and attack like a moron, this way it'll make sense for difficulty when little kids like moves that cause damage, and we like status.

Edit: Felix let me add you to contributors

 

[Xia]

Also, I noticed in the first post that Darkartisan has already decided the basic kanto setup for the gyms... we could go ahead and work on that for other versions.

He just laid those out to show you (us) what he expects. We could do that, to pass the time. Do you have any preference for which Gym(s) you want to do? Maybe you, M4GNITUDE, Minty Fresh, and I should each take a region and make a rough copy, post it here, and discuss it.

EDIT: Darkartisian, you object to letting us each do a region? I just now saw you were logged in.

 

[Darkartisan]

hmm, well I would like it if you did that, maybe i'll put just you and Felix91 on a side project, could you handle that? Also, I think that maybe I should start on some sort of game "design" basic with just squares just to get it started?

 

[Felix91]

Jesus, Busch Gardens is 4 hours away from my house -.-'
Alright, I honestly think that targeting should have more precise "custom targets." Such as, obviously, Tackle is 100% accuracy, so it should have a nice sized target, while moves like Horn drill should have no target at all. "Missle moves", such as Bullet seed, should be shot in the air like the way a basketball arcs, the size of baseballs, and then rain down on the opposition, while moves such as Seed Bomb will be the size of a basketball, and explode into bullet seeds. You copy?

I copy. And agree... would we need to come up with specific targets/lack of targets/shots like balls for every move? Or would it be determined by accuracy/the type of move (like bullet seed is shooting, tackle is hitting, etc.)

What about something like Hyper beam?

Size will matter, and so will the defensive and Sp defensive stats. Pokemon such as Scizor, Scyther and Heracross should be able to "parry" attacks with their horn/claws, and special attacks should have a "dodge rate", but the whole difference between Sp and Physical attacks is that Physical attacks can be dodged and parried, but if you parry an attack (which is harder), you get a random boost in one stat(such as a +1 speed or attack boost.)

Oh I see. Sounds neat. It's basically like "Congratulations, you have good reflexes, +1"?

Legends should have a much higher parry rate, which makes it smart to not go and attack like a moron, this way it'll make sense for difficulty when little kids like moves that cause damage, and we like status.

Anything to promote more "good" pokemon players sounds great to me.

Edit: Felix let me add you to contributors[/QUOTE]

Thanks

If you could post some sort of roadmap for the future or checklist/to do list that would be amazing. Obviously no rush on this, but it would give the Contributors something to do when you're not here.

 

[Xia]

Well Felix, how do you want to do this? I can take over the Jotoh region and another region of your choice, if that works. Divide and conquer! horay!! =]

@dark, how do you feel about us splitting the obtainable pokemon up into four/five/however many games there are groups? I just want to know so that I can maybe get a list of all of the basic/lowest evolution Pokemon going to make this easier in the future.

 

[Felix91]

He just laid those out to show you (us) what he expects. We could do that, to pass the time. Do you have any preference for which Gym(s) you want to do? Maybe you, M4GNITUDE, Minty Fresh, and I should each take a region and make a rough copy, post it here, and discuss it.

EDIT: Darkartisian, you object to letting us each do a region? I just now saw you were logged in.

I wouldn't mind doing that. Not... one... bit. (Sorry, minor Dark Knight reference...)
I could do the D/P/Pt one.

Basically what we'll do is make the gym leaders tougher and updated with some newer pokes? (and use generally the same format that darkartisan did)

hmm, well I would like it if you did that, maybe i'll put just you and Felix91 on a side project, could you handle that? Also, I think that maybe I should start on some sort of game "design" basic with just squares just to get it started?

Starting is always the hardest step. I think that would be a good choice.

I'd be willing to do that as a side project.

Also, do you plan on adding new pokemon in this game? what about moves, abilities, items, etc? That could be something else we could work on.

 

[Felix91]

Well Felix, how do you want to do this? I can take over the Jotoh region and another region of your choice, if that works. Divide and conquer! horay!! =]

I'll start with Sinnoh (lol, Sinnoh is the D/P one, right? I feel stupid now)

I'll get started asap.

I'll start by finding the Gym Leaders/Elite 4 guys and all their info, then go from there. Anyone know good resources for stuff like that?



Question: are double battles going to be in this game? I just realized that would be impossibly for 1 person to do... Or would that be a separate "Co-op" mode?

 

[Xia]

Ugh, double battles... T_T

@Felix, try Bulbapedia. That's where I found all of my Johto members. Search for "Sinnoh League"

I'll make up johto's stuff tomorrow, I'm gonna go play some Ping Pong right now and think.

 

[Solstice]

Serebii has all of them, plus all their Pokemon and levels for all games.

And I think the first thing we need to even out is, how the heck is battle going to work? Before we get started on gyms and storyline, shouldn't we figure out how to PLAY first? You cant just grab a game of Monopoly, pick the racecar, and expect to figure the rest out later. Well, you could, but you'd lose :P.

I think first off, we need to decide once and for all how move targeting is going to work.

We have my suggestion of L-Targeting, or with the Nunchuk, Z-Targeting. I prefer this idea to the idea of aiming with the WiiMote. This way, its more of a battle game then a shooting game.

When Z-Targeting, moves with less accuracy may need to be guided by the Nunchuk is the way I think it should work. Like say, if a Starmie is locked onto a Kingdra, and it tries to use Thunder, the Starmie will freeze in place, and you have to use the stick to rotate around and aim towards the Kingdra.

Also, should the battle area be a restricted area. I think a large circle would be a good distance, when the Pokemon gets to close to the outside of the ring, it gets pushed back in.