All Gens Implementing all old gens in PS - Testers required!

[Kiddo]

Okay I have banned all of those RBY combinations.

thanks.

Is there any chance that the bug with critical hits not ignoring light screen and reflect be fixed? E.G:

tauros body slam on chansey = 40% (aprox)
tauros body slam on reflect chansey = 20%
tauros body slam (crit) on chansey = 80%
tauros body slam (crit) on reflect chansey = 40% - this should be 80% as it should ignore it.

This is the biggest issue on RBY that isn't fixed.

 

[BKC]

both dpp

Mizuhime sent out Roserade!
Pointed stones dug into the opposing Roserade!
The poison spikes disappeared from around the opposing team's feet!
The opposing Roserade fainted!

tspikes arent absorbed if the mon switching in dies to sr

Cresselia used Lunar Dance!
Cresselia fainted!
The opposing Blissey used Toxic!
But there was no target...
The sandstorm rages.
The opposing Blissey is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The opposing Blissey restored HP using its Leftovers!
You have 300 seconds to make your decision.
Go! Scizor!
Scizor became cloaked in mystical moonlight!
Scizor is hurt by the spikes!
Pointed stones dug into Scizor!

this is a bw mechanic, in dpp hazards take effect before the mon is healed so if it doesnt die it will be at full

 

[Pocket]

Unlike in BW2, in DPP a faster Lunar Dance doesn't bring in the recipient after the opponent moved. So in the case above, Blissey moves AFTER Scizor comes in and restores health, not before as shown here.

I'm just going by PO mechanics, btw.

 

[BKC]

yea that is also correct

 

[magic9mushroom]

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rby-and-gsc-illegal-movesets.78638/

full list of the learnset problems for rby (non implemented)

EDIT: might not be a full list, but it's a start.

Okay I have banned all of those RBY combinations.

I believe that's all of them, with the exception that Confusion and Disable are also illegal on Mewtwo in RBY (not that it matters, since it's banned in OU and the Gen 1 Custom Game format has much bigger problems like not actually banning gen 2+ Pokemon and moves). This is because Mewtwo is obtained at level 70 in Cerulean Cave, and has already forgotten these moves (there are no move relearners in RBY).

EDIT: There is one more. Kakuna and Beedrill cannot have Poison Sting + Harden or String Shot + Harden, as Harden requires that the Pokemon be caught as Kakuna, while Poison Sting and String Shot require that it be caught as Weedle.

 

[Ernesto]

Hmm so NixHex just posted some of his GSC games, and apparently Sleep Talked Roar doesn't fail (turn 82). That isn't listed on the to-do stuff (although someone might have mentioned it before, I apologize if that's the case) so I thought I should bring it up since I think it's a pretty important difference from later gens. There might be some other stuff but that's the only one that hit me.

Edit: Really? I was pretty sure it didn't work. Well, don't mind this then.

 

[Bedschibaer]

sleep talk roar is supposed to work in gsc

 

[M Dragon]

sleep talk roar is supposed to work in gsc

Not if you are faster. If you are faster it fails.

 

[BKC]

Gengar used Explosion!
It's not very effective... The opposing Jirachi lost 33% of its health!

Gengar fainted!

The opposing Jirachi used Wish!

this is wrong in adv, the pkmn exploded on doesnt move

 

[Pocket]

Yep, in old Explosion mechanics the turn ends when a Pokemon explodes (so slower Pokemon taking the Explosion/Self Destruct/Memento(?) effectively loses a turn)

This mechanic apply to RBY and GSC, as well, not just ADV.

 

[Jirachee]

Starmie used Hydro Pump!
The opposing Rotom-Heat lost 93% of its health!
Starmie lost some of its HP!

(gen is DPP and Starmie is holding a Life Orb)

The Starmie lost some of its HP! part isn't supposed to show in DPP. The Pokemon simply loses HP without the game showing any message. This is quite minor but it can make a difference against players who don't pay much attention or might have missed it.

 

[magic9mushroom]

(everything I'm saying also applies to Whirlwind)

Hmm so NixHex just posted some of his GSC games, and apparently Sleep Talked Roar doesn't fail (turn 82). That isn't listed on the to-do stuff (although someone might have mentioned it before, I apologize if that's the case) so I thought I should bring it up since I think it's a pretty important difference from later gens. There might be some other stuff but that's the only one that hit me.

Edit: Really? I was pretty sure it didn't work. Well, don't mind this then.

sleep talk roar is supposed to work in gsc

Not if you are faster. If you are faster it fails.

To clarify the actual mechanic in play here, Roar will fail if it is used before the opponent acts. The usual cases where this happens are a) when Roar is selected by Sleep Talk, and the Sleep Talker is faster, b) when both Pokemon use Roar. a) is mostly crucial to teambuilding, as it's the main reason Roar is not used on RestTalk sets of Pokemon such as Suicune and Zapdos; b), however, affects play as well. There is a c) which can crop up rarely that Curse Machamp may use Vital Throw to prevent phazing.

Currently, b) is implemented somewhat badly; see here. Currently, it's hacked to make the slower move go first between Roars - this is incorrect in PP-usage and also fails when there's a last-Poke in play - if last-Poke Skarm uses Whirlwind vs. Rhydon's Roar, then both should fail. a) and c) are not implemented at all, as seen here.

To fix this properly, the hackjob with slower Roars/Whirlwinds going first should be removed, and a check should be added that IF Roar/Whirlwind is used AND opposing side has not acted yet (move, switch, etc) AND tier = GSC OU THEN Roar/Whirlwind fails.

EDIT: Something I forgot to test; the "fix" currently in place creates a serious error in addition to the minor ones. Vital Throw Machamp should be able to hit a Roaring Rhydon before being phazed, but as seen here it fails to on Showdown (turn 2). This is specifically an error caused by the "slower Roars go first" hackjob, and not by the failure to put in the proper fix (Roar should indeed work here... but after Vital Throw hits).

 

[Bedschibaer]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1oubeta-119012750
clamp works the wrong way here, it does different damage to venusaur even though it should work with the same damage roll. Also it does more than the calc says.

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

Has anyone brought up the updated base stats for XY? They're the ones that display in the PS! teambuilder, regardless of generation.

 

[TalkTakesTime]

Has anyone brought up the updated base stats for XY? They're the ones that display in the PS! teambuilder, regardless of generation.

Currently our client is not multi-gen, so everything that shows up will be based on the current gen, frustrating though it might be. A multi-gen client might be a while, since (I think) it would require an almost complete redo of a number of components, and other things are higher on the to-do list

 

[MoxieInfinite]

on the somewhat same note, the teambuilder does not recognize the type based physical/special split when building for pre-dpp tiers

nothing big but worth a mention i guess

 

[magic9mushroom]

What does the screenshot have to do with what you said? Shouldn't you be screenshotting the "moves" window and not the "EVs" one?

 

[Swamp Link]

What does the screenshot have to do with what you said? Shouldn't you be screenshotting the "moves" window and not the "EVs" one?

The teambuilder gave him a Relaxed nature instead of a Bold one because it thought that Fire Punch was physical.

 

[TalkTakesTime]

What does the screenshot have to do with what you said? Shouldn't you be screenshotting the "moves" window and not the "EVs" one?

I assume he's pointing out that it should be dropping attack rather than speed, since pre-gen 4 they were both special moves.

MoxieInfinite I'll have a look into that but I don't think that gen is ever considered in the suggested spreads generator, since as far as I know none of the teambuilder supports older gens

 

[The Immortal]

Unlike in BW2, in DPP a faster Lunar Dance doesn't bring in the recipient after the opponent moved. So in the case above, Blissey moves AFTER Scizor comes in and restores health, not before as shown here.

I'm just going by PO mechanics, btw.

Fixed.

 

[V4Victini]

Starmie used Hydro Pump!
The opposing Rotom-Heat lost 93% of its health!
Starmie lost some of its HP!

(gen is DPP and Starmie is holding a Life Orb)

The Starmie lost some of its HP! part isn't supposed to show in DPP. The Pokemon simply loses HP without the game showing any message. This is quite minor but it can make a difference against players who don't pay much attention or might have missed it.

{ 14:33 }    <Zarel> TheImmortal, yes, we don't care about biasing against players "who don't pay much attention"
{ 14:34 }    <V4> for that reason i dunno if it needs to be done
{ 14:34 }    <Zarel> PS intentionally gives information to help players who don't pay much attention
{ 14:34 }    <Zarel> such as having a battle log at all
{ 14:34 }    <Zarel> and having the opponent's boosts directly on-screen
{ 14:34 }    <Zarel> and having basically any other information you need directly on-screen
{ 14:35 }    <TheImmortal> feel free to reply to https://smogon.com/forums/threads/implementing-all-old-gens-in-ps-testers-required.3483261/page-6#post-5439167
{ 14:35 }    <Zarel> Which is why I said, if we made any change, it'd be to add parens
{ 14:35 }    <V4> oh
{ 14:35 }    <V4> thats what you meant
{ 14:35 }    <Zarel> "(The opposing ___ lost some health.)"
{ 14:35 }    <V4> yea I was going to say that too
{ 14:35 }    <Zarel> Which is what we do for things that don't generate an in-game message but that we want players to know about.

 

[Zarel]

The Starmie lost some of its HP! part isn't supposed to show in DPP. The Pokemon simply loses HP without the game showing any message. This is quite minor but it can make a difference against players who don't pay much attention or might have missed it.

This is an intentional design choice.

PS shows a lot of things that can make a difference against players who don't pay attention, for instance, we keep track of the battle log, we keep track of stat stages on all active pokemon, we keep track of what your opponent has switched in and how much HP they have left. Basically, we track everything that's possible to know at all, and make it as convenient as possible to know about.

The other reason we have to do this is because not doing it would be DRM.

The thing is, Starmie loses HP. We have to tell the user's computer that Starmie loses HP, because the user's computer has to know that to update Starmie's HP bar. So someone could easily just write another client (or just a tiny browser extension) to show a message whenever Starmie loses HP. And then suddenly people who use the extension have an advantage over people who don't. It's better just to show the message to everyone, so it's fair for everyone.

 

[magic9mushroom]

The teambuilder gave him a Relaxed nature instead of a Bold one because it thought that Fire Punch was physical.

But this is a recommendation. It's not nearly as bad as something saying "Fire Punch: Physical" or anything of that ilk.

 

[Bedschibaer]

this is what i started out with, 2 illegal sets, right? according to http://www.smogon.com/tournaments/spl/rules a sleep inducing move + perish song + a trapping move is illegal on the same mon

when trying to use it, it gave me only a rejection message for missy, jynx is appareantly fine to use this combination

I am aware the ban only applies to tournament play, but banning the combination on misdreavus only looks like it's misprogrammed or overlooked.

 

[Mr.E]

That's probably because Jynx uses Lovely Kiss instead of Hypnosis.