In-Game Tier List Discussion

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#51
Pokabu is pretty good, from what I hear

Mijumaru is good in the beginning, but it gets a bit lacklustre later on

Victini definitely deserves to be in high tier. A Pokemon with those stats coming after only 2 badges? Victini is incredibly useful (though I ditched it because I want a Gochiruzeru)

Meguroku is super duper high tier. Comes very early, two amazing abilities, good stats, evolves fairly quickly, and gets two reliable STAB moves early (Crunch at 28 and Dig from a TM in the desert). Remains useful throughout the game, moreso when he gets Earthquake
 

Colonel M

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#52
Okay, just so you guys aren't being left in the dust: I have started structuring a tier list. Over the next day or two, I'll discuss some of the other Pokemon with some of the people who wanted to help me make this. After that, I'll post the list and we'll make the changes. Don't worry: I'm putting sprite pictures to help differentiate the names.

There's a couple of things that we're going to look for, but first let's make this clear: First process will be putting Pokemon in a certain tier. So, this means we're only arguing Pokemon up and down the tiers. In example, if you feel that Mole is too high, to the point where it should be a tier lower, then you would argue that. If, however, you think Mole is too high because it is above Croc and they are within the same tier, then I'm asking to temporarily refrain from making arguments such as that. The goal is to minimize the massive tier jumping / nitpicks in two fell swoops. After we can all agree on a general basis of the Pokemon belonging in that tier, then we can open up the nitty gritty stuff, in which case you can then argue why you think Croc should be over Mole, for example.

I'll explain the rest later. Expect a rough draft in the next couple of days. Keep posting your thoughts.
 

Destiny Warrior

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#53
Hiyakky isn't getting the love it deserves. Water STAB is surprisingly good ingame, and even if you evolve him on learning Boiling Water, it isn't a big deal as he learns Grass Knot AND Ice Beam(which comes a little late). GK + Boiling Water will guarantee a neutral hit most of the time, and dragons are not exactly "common", and you can get Ice Beam later on to beat them. Surf(Boiling Water early on)/Grass Knot/Cheer Up/Bite or Crunch will hit most of ingame, and Crunch can be dropped for Ice Beam if you don't want to level your monkey up that much, and early game, you can use Bite in that slot.

Musharna is just not good. Shadow Ball and Charge Beam don't come early(GK does though), and they are its only options outside of Psychic. He gets a great support movepool, but that isn't overly useful ingame.


Blue judo dude FTW!
 
#54
Wow, is Choroneko that unusable? I was planning on her being on my final team o_O

She's my favourite design wise so...yeah. What Pokemon does she compare to in battle uselessness? Bidoof?
 
#55
Worse than Bibarel, which has a better movepool by far.

Leperasudu is a supporter, and a fairly decent one. Ingame, supporters are worthless. So, it's not worth bothering with.

Also, if we say that the game "ends" when all the Sages are found...

Urgamoth. Holy shit, Urgamoth. Comes at level 70 in the course of finding a Sage (no detour) with Heat Wave/Bug Buzz/Butterfly Dance. It just demolishes everything. High tier. I would say top, but no matter how good it is off the bat it still comes VERY close to the end.
 
#56
In-Game Smugleaf is rather lacking............ HOWEVER Perversity thanks to Dreamworld makes its speedy tank position actually work... But I agree with in-game the water is good to start with.
 
#57
The Zebra is pretty amazing; Thunder Wave, Flash, Light Screen, Volt Change allows you to basically cripple your opponent's Pokemon and then Volt Change to your setup Pokemon. Obviously you will only use this for boss battles.
 
#58
Oh well, I'm still using Choroneko. I mean, people have done walkthroughs with only Magikarp :D

And I could always get someone to trade me an egg with the egg move Faint Attack so Choroneko's not stuck with Pursuit for ages...
 

TheMantyke

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#59
I'm going to back up the Grass Snake line here.

Tsutaja is good for the very early game (like pretty much every starter ever, bar Chikorita) and is still powerful once it evolves into Janobi. Grass Mixer rips things to shreds up until around the lower mid 20s. At that point, Janobi starts to deal with Meganium syndrome and has to deal with pretty much only Grass Mixer and a normal move (I couldn't find return anywhere so I was dealing with tackle... at the very least, it made it easy to catch wild pokemon). However, this doesn't last forever. What really puts the Grass starter on par with the other two is the magic that happens from level 32 to level 36. During that time, you evolve and get access to Leaf Blade, Strength, and most importantly, Coil-Up. Coil-Up makes the thing an absolute beast, especially when it can outspeed everything and already have +1 defense when opponents first attack. I was able to plow through the Fighting and Dark elite four members with no problem using this strategy. Jaroda is powerful. Very powerful. And because of this, I'm petitioning that all starters should be in high tier. I am oh so happy to say the 5th gen grass starter isn't absolutely awful like a few other ones.
 
#60
I'm going to back up the Grass Snake line here.

Tsutaja is good for the very early game (like pretty much every starter ever, bar Chikorita) and is still powerful once it evolves into Janobi. Grass Mixer rips things to shreds up until around the lower mid 20s. At that point, Janobi starts to deal with Meganium syndrome and has to deal with pretty much only Grass Mixer and a normal move (I couldn't find return anywhere so I was dealing with tackle... at the very least, it made it easy to catch wild pokemon). However, this doesn't last forever. What really puts the Grass starter on par with the other two is the magic that happens from level 32 to level 36. During that time, you evolve and get access to Leaf Blade, Strength, and most importantly, Coil-Up. Coil-Up makes the thing an absolute beast, especially when it can outspeed everything and already have +1 defense when opponents first attack. I was able to plow through the Fighting and Dark elite four members with no problem using this strategy. Jaroda is powerful. Very powerful. And because of this, I'm petitioning that all starters should be in high tier. I am oh so happy to say the 5th gen grass starter isn't absolutely awful like a few other ones.
Yeah i could tell it would be pretty good ingame when its at those levels but havign the patience to get there is the problem.
 
#63
Shinpora is, again, god tier. Late game, it eats the Elite Four alive with Psychic/Air Slash/Shadow Ball. It never dwindles; it just keeps MURDERING everything.
 
#64
What is everyone's stance on Aaken/Aakeosu (rock/flying fossil). 112 base attack and then 140 base attack when it evolves at lvl 37. When you get Acrobat at level 28, you rip everything to shreds except for those that resist but then you can always use Dig. IMO I don't know who I should choose for my Flying Poke this gen, it's either Aakeosu or Shinpora. Both are received around the same time when you are in the desert. Aakeosu is seems more powerful but is also more fragile.

Shinpora is, again, god tier. Late game, it eats the Elite Four alive with Psychic/Air Slash/Shadow Ball. It never dwindles; it just keeps MURDERING everything.
Aekeosu can also be an alternative to Shinpora; it easily handles the Elite Four with Acrobat/Crunch/Rock Slide/U-Turn
 
#65
Shinpora is, again, god tier. Late game, it eats the Elite Four alive with Psychic/Air Slash/Shadow Ball. It never dwindles; it just keeps MURDERING everything.
I guess tahts good to know. I really want to use Emboar when i get the game as its my favorite stater look and color wise (I Love the back sprite!). Problem was the alck fo water types so id have to use the water fossil but then there would be a alck of decent flying types if i couldnt get the flying fossil.

Good to know this is a beast as i lvoe my in game team to be 6 pokes and just balance out the hms so i dont need a slave. Just need to know if the water fossil is good late game and im good to go
 

Mario With Lasers

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#66
My current team is Tsutarja evo - Dangoro evo - Dokkora evo - Bluemonkey - Choroneko evo - Darumakka and I'm at level ~27 now.


Janobii - Mid-tier. Still interesting. Takes every single move thrown at him, unless super effective, of course, but has huge movepool problems. Mine has Growth / Leech Seed / Grass Mixer / Tackle, and is at lv27. Can you see the problem already ? >_>

Gantoru - High-tier. It's like Janobii in many aspects, but the difference is that it hits like a truck since lv10 lol. Rock Blast / Headbutt / Rock Smash means Aloe has zero chance against it (unless, of course, Hypnosis hits...) and that it storms through the early-game with ease. I wonder how good will it be against the Ground Gym Leader lol >_>

Dotekkotsu - High-tier. It was really sucking to me at first (lol Encourage Low Kick), but then I realized I already had TM94 so I taught it Rock Smash and only then the damage started kicking in. It's similar to Gantoru (it even learns a Rock-type move!), but for some reason I think it's frailer than it... It has only two weaknesses and very valuable resistances (at least to me!) to Rock and Dark though, so it's pretty high-tier in my book.

Hiyappu - Mid-tier. At first it was omgbbqawesome for obvious reasons, but it was a PAIN to train it for Aloe's Gym (in the end I used only Dangoro lol) as it only had shitty Water Gun. Once it learned Boiling Water in Hiun City... man. The thing's become a monster. Well of course it's still frail, it's a fucking pre-evo lol, but its STAB is awesome and the burn rate works to me like a charm. I'm going to evolve it only at lv31 as it's when the pre-evo learns Acrobat and apparently Pokémon Sunday gave wrong info, and the move has its power doubled, from 55 to 110, when the opponent has no item, not the user. Lol in-game.

Yabakuron - Shit-tier. Holy cow, don't even get me started on this. I Exp Shared it from lv19 to 24, HOPING it would become a cool pokémon, but it's impossible. It apparently learns Take Down at lv25 and Sludge Bomb at lv29, but it's not worth it imo. It learns zero moves besides that, and only evolves at lv36, when it finally learns good special TMs... only to have to fire them off 60 Base Sp. Attack. Yeah, waste of time. Sorry bro, you're cool but not good enough.

Reparudasu - Mid???-tier. I had Garbagemon here (fuck you two guys, I wanted Gochimu...), but it sucked so badly I had to swap it out for anything. I had a Choroneko but it it died to a random Bide, but I already knew the whole line sucked in-game (even though its support movepool and DW ability seem quite nice). I cannot say much about it as I'm with it since, what, yesterday? lol, but it appears to be the mixed attacker of my team. For now, its moveset is Fake Out / Pursuit / Grass Knot / Rock Smash. Yeah, why doesn't it get Technician. Isn't a Garchomp neither a Lugia, but seems to be the average pokémon of my team. More to come on the next days, I hope.

And why in hell does Serebii call it Leperadusu in the Pokédex dropdown list and then correctly calls it Reparudasu on its page???

Darumakka - Top-tier. Jesus. Fire Punch, Headbutt, Rock Smash, Thrash at such a tender age? It even learns Flare Blitz at lv33! This is ridiculous, whoever built this thing's movepool clearly wanted to make Alakazam 2.0 this time around lol. The difference being that you don't need to trade it for it to evolve.


Churine\Doraida: If you're playing White, she's a far better Grass-type for this game than the Tsutarja line
You can have her in Black too, you just need to get a Monmen (Cottonmon) and talk to a random girl in the 2nd Gym's city. You'll trade Monmen for Churine.

IMO I don't know who I should choose for my Flying Poke this gen, it's either Aakeosu or Shinpora. Both are received around the same time when you are in the desert.
Wait, I thought you couldn't get the fossils the first time you went to the desert ?_?
 
#69
The poison centipede guy has served me really well. I'm on his third evo and nothing can touch him all the way through the desert. Doesn't sound like anyone else tried him though. Poison Tail/Bug Bite/Swords Dance/Baton Pass will be awesome.
I also got a sand croc to back up my Rock/Fire weak. He's been doing great. I say both these guys should get high tier.

Can someone tell me where you find
Grass/Steel ball
Electric Spider
Ghost Jellyfish
Swords Dance TM

If this stuff isn't till late game, that's cool too.
 
#70
In game team so far (working on the 6th gym, pokemon are around level 36ish):

Daikenki: It has been a solid player for me. I wouldn't say its as good as Emboar, but its a great water type with solid offensive stats, which is hard to find. It has Dig/Slash/Water Pulse/Shell Blade.

Baokki: The fire monkey...It's OKAY. Not that great. I like that it has yawn and can set up afterwards using Cheer Up. I leveled it up until it learned Bursting Flame, then evolved it. It's probably inferior to Darumakka. Yawn/Cheer Up/Bite/Bursting Flame.

Dageki: This guy rapes. Pure fighting type, faster than a lot of things with 85 speed, and a whopping 125 attack. I recommend getting this thing ASAP. It wrecks. Strength/Brick Break/Ankle Sweep/Bulk Up

Shinpora: I love this thing. It has great coverage and can deal tons of damage with its great SpA. Mine doesn't know shadow ball yet, but once it does. Man...
Fly/Air Cutter/Psybeam/Relfect

Shikijika: So far, I haven't been able to use this much yet. I have been grinding it up so it will evolve (only a level or two away). But it seems to get some awesome moves, so my speculation is that it will be pretty good eventually
Jump Kick/Wood Horn/Take Down(eventually double edge!)/Faint Attack
 

TheMantyke

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#71
Janobii - Mid-tier. Still interesting. Takes every single move thrown at him, unless super effective, of course, but has huge movepool problems. Mine has Growth / Leech Seed / Grass Mixer / Tackle, and is at lv27. Can you see the problem already ? >_>
This is the the Tsutaja line's main problem. Once you get into your twenties, Janobi has a super constrained movepool compared to pretty much everything else you have at that point. However, I can assure you that Janobi will become much, much better once it evolves and gets access to new moves.

And now, my opinions on a few Pokemon I used in my play-through

Darumakka Line: God tier
Amazing. Absolutely amazing. 95 attack and Hustle is great on its own, but Fire Punch and Flare Blitz make everything in the game die in one hit. Hihidaruma is even better. You get even more attack power without any annoying accuracy issues. Far and away the best Pokemon for an in-game run.

Nageki: High tier
The only reason I didn't use this Pokemon for my entire runthrough was its appearance ( kind of ugly and an annoying cry). However, this thing is an absolute god as soon as you get it. Amazing defenses and excellent STAB attacks allows it to take on nearly anything.

Megaruko: High tier
Megaruko struggles when you immediately get it, but once you find the TM for Dig, it rocks for the rest of the game. Crunch and Dig cream the 4th gym and Dig helps a lot with the 5th one. Both of its abilities are fantastic; Intimidate is great versus wild Pokemon while overconfidence sweeps through entire trainer teams. The only thing bad I can say about this guy is how long it takes to get Earthquake (but Level Ground is a fine replacement until then).

Aaken Line: High tier
You can get the Archeoptyrx as early as the 4th gym, but I obtained it after the 5th. Right after the 5th gym is a long route filled with grass and bug types, the perfect targets for pluck. Unlike pretty much every previous fossil Pokemon, Aaken pulls its weight throughout the game with its amazing stats. Faint Heart wasn't actually too bad of a nuisance either. The only time I suffered from it was when I was fighting something I had no right fighting in the first place

Kibago: Mid tier
I'm not actually sure if Kibago is rare or common in the cave it's found in, but I found it as my first wild encounter. Kibago doesn't need to babied much at all thanks to knowing Dragon Claw as soon as you catch it, and the lucky egg makes its steep experience rate much more tolerable. Of course, at the end, Ononokusu was a monster and a dominating force versus the 8th gym leader and the Elite Four

Monozu Line: Low tier
Unlike Kibago, Monozu requires A LOT of babying to get anywhere near useful. Even during the post game when you're fighting trainers with over level 60 Pokemon, Monozu take very little experience from the experience share and remains a nuisance to your under leveled party from the main game. On that note, don't even THINK about grinding it until you have access to some of the game's highest leveled wild Pokemon.

Yuniran Line: Low tier
A very slow psychic type with one STAB attack until you get psychic and a bunch of supporting moves (which have their value diminished severely thanks to the storyline's bias to sweeping Pokemon). It learns very few useful move by TM (Grass Knot and Shadow Ball was all I could teach mine) and it's slow as a glacier. I can't seriously recommend this Pokemon for any other reason beyond aesthetic aspects.
 
#72
Daikenki - Surf/Grass Knot/Aqua Tail/Vengeance
Hihidurama - Flare Blitz/Dig/Superpower/Fire Punch

Didn't battle any wild pokemon and evaded trainers when possible and yet they still raped everything. Flare Blitz KO's anything you wan't it too. Mines Adamant :)
 

jumpluff

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#73
Been playing some; Meguroko and Hihidaruma's pre-evo have been fantastic members of my team. I'd put Hihidaruma's preevolution in higher than god tier personally, the guy starts with Fire Fang, gets Fire Punch early, and boosted with Encourage dishes out OHKOs to at level Pokemon of neutral typing.
I think this is somewhat overhyped. (By the way, I am glad this is here; I was wondering when it'd be made!) To me, the embodiment of a God-tier Pokémon is Gyarados. Here is why Gyarados is in God tier in a number of games:

  • Easy to obtain
  • High utility because it's a Water-type and thus HM access, and Waterfall hasn't got any opportunity cost because it's Gyarados's boss STAB
  • Amazing coverage
  • Bulk
  • Intimidate utility
Now, Darumakka has a decent movepool and is easy to get, but it doesn't really bring any utility. Physically, it gets a Fire move (Fire Fang -> Fire Punch -> Flare Blitz), a Normal move, a Fighting move at lv. 39 (Superpower), and a Rock move (Rock Slide). That's pretty good and it doesn't level up too slowly so you should have no trouble getting good coverage on it, and it has Cheer Up to help you sweep. But it's fairly frail so dies easily; it's basically a glass cannon. Because of when you get it, it evolves towards the later gyms as well. It's fine against Raimon Gym (Electric), though the Volt Changes do a number on it because of its frailty. It loses to the 5th Gym, which is Ground, because of Meguroko and especially Gamagaru (Water/Ground),- but has a super effective STAB against his mole. The 6th gym is a Flying gym and by then you should have evolved it to Hihidaruma, which has a Fighting secondary type. The 7th gym is Ice, lol. 8th is Dragons. So, it does okay against the gyms but it doesn't really sweep them. So while I would say it is amazing, it's not God.

I don't think we even need a God tier. I think it should just be top of Top. I'm not denying it's incredible because it is, but I don't think it's comparable to the likes of Gyarados in its respective games. It's not almost perfect, but it's incredible.

Zebra should be lower mid. It's easy to get early-game and has access to Nitro Charge but it's not powerful enough to augment its extreme frailty. It dies when you poke it, making it extremely hard to level up to 27 and evolution. And even after Shimama becomes Zeburaika, it's still bad.

Tsutaaja should be a little over Shimama/Zeburaika. It's fast and bulky but not very strong and power would help more here. However, it can easily Leech Seed stall things and you get it for free. Jaroda gets access to good coverage, but as a Grass starter it has an ass movepool until it gets to lv. 36, and its growth is pretty slow because it loses to a lot of stuff. However, it is considerably tanky, which is more than I can say for the zebra.

Recommending Meguroko for high or top tier. It's not hard to get mid-game and is a great help against the Electric gym. You can't do wrong with either Intimidate or Overconfidence. Overconfidence sets up sweeps with ease and Intimidate is Intimidate. Its STABs are strong, it has access to good auxiliary coverage with TMs, and it doesn't take you long to evolve once. Crunch at lv. 28 is fantastic and you get Dig at lv. 32 or 31 if you don't evolve. Level 40 evolution is later game but by then we're already talking good HP, mediocre defenses though, amazing attack, and nice Speed.

Yorterrie should be high too. Unfortunately towards the later part of the game it's not really as useful because, even though it's trained, it's a Normal-type. It still holds its own though and hopefully by the time it's evolved has got Intimidate. Cheer Up after gym 1 by TM (or in level up) is sweet as well. Since it's a Normal-type it doesn't really have any disadvantages against most things, but it also does not have any advantages. Take Down comes relatively early and obliterates things. It gets Bite and later on (but not too late) Crunch. TM list isn't bad. You get it insanely early and even though you're given the monkey for beating the gym, it's not hard to beat the first gym with it. (I did it being a noob didn't realise there was a monkey :c)

Moguryuu is difficult to get but it doesn't take that long and it's early on. It's possibly even better than Meguroko since it gets Earthquake earlier and Swords Dance too. However, it is frail (though a Steel-type once it evolves) and slowish. That all changes mid-late though because Doryuuzu has ridiculous attack and HP. Unlike Meguroko though its abilities are useless ingame since you won't encounter much sand, so you have to roll your own.

Koromori is indisputably low tier. Irredeemable stats, 'ok-at-best' level up moves with only CM at lv. 30 (how did you even get it to lv. 30?) to make up for them. Its good TM coverage is worth little when you realise it has pretty awful stats. 45 Atk, 55 SpA, amazing! All Kokoromori has going for it once you make Koromori happy and make up for it fainting practically each time you bring it in is that it's fast, and hell, I'd rather use the zebra for 'fast'.

Mamepato is in an interesting position. Its final evolution (lv. 32) is fine stats-wise, but then look at its movepool and the only physical Flying move it gets until E4 or even after is Fly. Fly is late game too. Other than Aerial Ace, which I still haven't found yet... However, it's easy to catch and get Fly, but Swanna gets it too. Swanna seems mediocre stats-wise (I hate it so I didn't catch it) but as a Flying/Water it gets Surf, Dive, Fly... oh, and Boiling Water :3. Nice level up moves too.

Grass/Steel and Denchura (spider) are obtainable in their pre-evo form after the fifth gym in the electric cave.
 
#74
Warubiaru or Doryuuzu? I cant seem to decide =/.

Team i had planend was:

Emboar/Shinpora/abagoora/denchura/doryuuzu/sazando

Im getting alot of dont bother with sazando as its too late in game so it not useful in game blah blah and i guess if i went warubiaru that would open another slot but hmm
 
#75
I've been in Hiun City just playing around for a bit. Right now I have only two pokemon that I use, but I'm trying to catch a Meguroko. My two main pokemon are level 24.

Chaobuu: simply awesome. Right now it has nitro charge/ rollout/ arm thrust/ tackle or something. Nitro charge really gets around his otherwise crappy speed, and it has activated every singly time I have used it. Everyone is praising the pig, so there's not much to say here. High tier for sure.

Churine: I don't see it getting a lot of talk around here, and I don't know why. Sleep powder and leech seed are awesome together, and mega drain further aids in her survivability. The early grass knot TM also helps with any PP problems with the above set-up, though growth is also valuable. The biggest problem is the only non-grass or grass move that it can viably use is dream eater (whenever I get it), which is alright for in-game anyway. I also see that she has own tempo, which will amazing with petal dance. Also, I hear I can get a sun stone around the fourth badge, which is awesome.I would rate her over the grass starter easily. Medium tier easily, maybe high tier depending on how she performs late game.
 
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