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In-Game Tier List Discussion

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R_N said:
And the time investment; legendaries can always be a pain and not stay in the damn ball.
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Well, you COULD always Master Ball 'em and be done with it instead of training a Foongus and wasting half your monies on Dusk Balls. For the roamer, you can do fifty trades and talk to the guy in the Castelia Pokemon Center.

Anywho, I used Cobalion a little bit, and I wasn't overly impressed with it. Maybe because I already had Emboar as a Fighter, maybe it just didn't fight enough, but I actually picked it up after Opelucid, so it was a bit underlevelled. I gave it X-Scissor/Volt Switch/Sacred Sword/Iron Head and a Lucky Egg to help with Exp. (it practically eats the stuff), and when it was caught up I used in a couple of battles. And it seemed... fairly underwhelming. It wasn't all that fast, its SpA was okay and Volt Switch was weak, the SpD wasn't too great and its defense was far too often circumvented by its weaknesses, and its STABs were mostly 2HKOs when neutral. It's good, it's usable, but it isn't *great*. Again, maybe I just picked it up too late, but I wasn't overly impressed by it.

Also, Terrakion should be Low due to the fact that it can only perform in six battles which consist of Lv. 48-52s versus it at Lv. 42 (unless you save some Victory Road Trainers for it to thrash).

On the subject of tiers, I think that we should have about five or six, solely because of a need for differentiation between the capabilities of the vast amount of Pokemon that are being tiered.
 
Would going back for Rock Slide be all that important? Rock Moves are nice (<3 Gigalith's Rock Blast), but I never found them super important, especially to the point of backtracking deep into a cave.
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Not really, though it gives Archeops another STAB and gives your Fighting-type Pokemon an option to kill fliers without relying on the iffy Rock Tomb.
 
Well, I've just beaten Ghetsis, and although I only used a team of 4, and I've Audino grinded quite a bit, here's my thoughts on what I used:

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Tepig was quite mediocre for a Fire starter overall, but it was very helpful despite that. Once it gets Flame Charge it DOMINATES for quite a while into the 20s, but honestly, having Arm Thrust as your only form of STAB until Mistralton at the very least is very annoying, since you have to rely on a coin toss to beat some of the stronger foes. From there it sadly faded into mediocrity until it got Heat Crash, but when it evolved it became very effective and strong, and when it got Hammer Arm it was even more so. Late game it was very helpful and decimated Ghetsis (HYDREIGON OHKOED WITH HAMMER ARM DESPITE EMBOAR BEING 2 LEVELS LOWER. WHAT A BOSS.) and 2 of the Elite 4, but overall, it's performance wasn't that great, so I believe it should go in MID, although if there is a tier split I recommend it in Upper Mid, since it is effective late game.

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This thing has gotten a lot of smack in this thread, but honestly having tried it solely because of its utility in hunting shinies, I chose it, and it was surprisingly very good! It had surprisingly good Attack and learning Crunch at level 16 really helps it in killing off enemies. Unfortunately since I stupidly gave it Cut it had subpar STAB until Mistralton, but even then it was effective with just Cut and Crunch, and its catching skills are second to none. It falters a LOT lategame, especially against the E4 and N/Ghetsis, though, which is why it should stay in MID, but Upper Mid if the tiers change.

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Now this thing is CRIMINALLY underrated. I caught it in Pinwheel Forest looking for another team member, and although it started out crap, by the time it got Poison Tail and Bug Bite, it was KICK-ASS and managed to hold it's own very well. When it evolves into Whirlipede, it gets a lot of bulk and is very useful, although losing use at the desert, but when it evolves into Scolipede... My god, it singlehandedly became my best team member, even when Emboar and Watchog were fully evolved! Mine had a Relaxed nature, but it still had high speed and good attack to use throughout the game, and when Mistralton came around, I got Steamroller and Megahorn (from the move relearner) and it teared apart everything it went up against, even in the Elite 4, where Caitlin and Grimsley were demolished without a trace. Considering all this, I REALLY wanna push this guy for HIGH (especially if Sandile is in there), because this thing just frigging RAPES, but it has a weak start, so if anything it should be in Upper Mid if the tiers get split.

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Ooh boy, this guy. Let me just say that Ferroseed is one of the HARDEST THINGS TO TRAIN in Pokemon history, EVEN WITH AUDINO ALL OVER THE PLACE. Its level up moves are initially poor, and its typing is offensively very bad as well. I really struggled training this thing up, but I persevered and when it evolved into Ferrothorn before the 6th gym, I wasn't disappointed in the slightest. The gain of Power Whip was a godsend to this thing, and throughout the game since then I've been using it so much it's unbelievable. Curse up and then either Gyro Ball or Power Whip as you please, as well as having additional Iron Barbs damage! Gyro Ball admittedly has poor PP, but if you're gonna use Ferrothorn, you'd want to have PP Ups ready to make it a more viable move. Ferrothorn basically soloed Brycen (I wanted to see what it could do, it wrecked), Drayden, Caitlin (Megahorn missed Musharna :( ) and N (except Zoroark, fucking punk had Flamethrower), as well as helping out greatly against Shauntal and Ghetsis. It's endgame utility is AMAZING, but when you get it, it's crap. Perfect candidate for MID IMO.

Like I said, that's just my two cents as I played through the game, if anybody wants to ask why I base my opnions, then don't hesitate to do so!

NOTE: Before anyone asks, I deliberately played through Black whilst ignoring so called powerhouses like Darumaka, Archen and Sigilyph. I did these because I wanted the game to be interesting and I wanted to test whether some of the lower Pokes on this list can actually be useful. I've been stalking this thread for a few months haha!
 
I beat the game yesterday with the following team:

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Blaze

I started the game with Tepig, since I never start my games with fire types and I wanted something different this time. It was probably my most powerful member until the ground gym, when my other pokemon were equally good or maybe more. It's a good fire and fighting pokemon, with decent Special Attack too, so it can use some special stuff (like scald), but it has low defenses, so you have to be careful when using it or it will be eaten alive. It should be placed in the UPPER MID tier, since it is good, but not OHKOEVERYTHING good.


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Water Absorb

When I first captured this pokemon I didn't feel like it could much, but it actually did surprisingly well, acting as a really reliable mixed attacker. Having health draining moves, cotton guard and immunity to water was also incredibly useful. It was able to sweep all of Cynthia's pokemon too, using acupressure to boost all of its stats against Spiritomb (who couldn't kill it) and then proceeding to kill everything in sight with petal dance and sucker punch (it was also level 60 when it did that). Mine had a +attack nature so its attack is a bit higher than its special attack. In my opinion it should be in the MID TIER. You can argue it is outclassed by other grass types, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a solid option with great special attack, usable attack and that it can be obtained early.


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Sturdy

Carracosta was a fairly useful pokemon, since it wasn't hard to level and when it evolved it could easily set up using shell smash and then just hit everything really hard. It was able to go through the dragon gym using only shell smash and crunch, so I guess that's good. Despite being weak to some popular types (especially with all the timburr family members around) it was able to do some serious damage whenever it needed to. It is fine in the MID TIER, I think.


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Limber

This thing has the most amazing face in unova and I was lucky enough to find a great one too, with perfect IVs on special attack and defense or something like that. It was able to take lots of hits and deal great damage back, has accesss to good moves and has an useful offensive (even if awkward) typing. Really useful, but it is found late in the game. I suggest moving it to LOW MID tier, since it is a reliable pokemon that doesn't need too much training to keep up with your other pokemon.


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Regeneration

I got an Audino because I wanted a normal type in my team. It is a bulky pokemon, but has low attacking stats, so I taught it work up and made it hold rugged helmet. It can also learn some neat attacks because of its type. It can act as a mixed attacker, if you don't mind setting up or as a support/tank pokemon. It's not an amazing pokemon, but it defeated every pokemon in the ice gym using work up + fire blast. It is also avaiable really early and it's easy to train. I think it should be in the LOWER MID tier.


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Overcoat

It appears just before the Elite 4, but I got mine at level 39 and it easily got to the same level as my other pokemon (gotta love lucky egg). It has amazing defensive stats and a decent movepool, being able to learn nasty plot and also easily surviving hits and setting up. It defeated 2 of the Elite 4 members by itself when it was a level 50 vullaby, since it was holding an eviolite and was able to survive everything and hit back with SE moves. A good pokemon, it's a shame it appears so late. I think it should be at least MID LOW, though.
 
AriadosPerson said:
Well, you COULD always Master Ball 'em and be done with it instead of training a Foongus and wasting half your monies on Dusk Balls.
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Or a Lilligant (Sleep Powder is love). Or Musharna (Yawn is also kind of love).
Or just Prankster Stun Spore it, I suppose.

And if you wait for the Master Ball, you would need to put of Cobalion until after Opelucid. An even longer wait!
For the roamer, you can do fifty trades and talk to the guy in the Castelia Pokemon Center.
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Which is also fairly time consuming (and it's 50 different IDs by the way). I did a lot of trading and GTSing pre-game and only just barely reached the Choice Scarf (actually, I may be confusing it with something else; I can't remember if I had it during the E4 or the post-game).
 
Mekkah said:
To the people praising Escavaliar: remember that it's slow. Taking a hit before you attack sucks and takes up time. Ferroseed suffers from this as well. At best, they're Mid tier.
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Sure, but it can afford being slow because of it's awesome typing, which gives it tons of resistances. Fire is very uncommon in Unova too.
Actually, by handing it the rocky helmet, it's speed becomes passive damage.
I never had to heal much with it.
 
Colonel M said:
@ Pansear:
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Can we have a tier below Bottom only for him?

I read a playlog where someone used Munna and gave a lot of negative feedback at the same time. Yet I also had kd24 tell me it was alright. I'll at least consider it for Mid but I'd definitely like some arguments for it.
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I'm doing a NFE-only run (at Nimbasa by now), and I ditched Munna already. It comes with Psywave (80 Acc, 5-15 fixed damage at best from lv8 to 11, awesome huh), has no coverage, takes a while to find (20% chance) and, if you try to evolve it early, then you won't have Calm Mind neither Psychic (and neither Assist Power / Stored Power) and will be locked on Psybeam / Yawn / Hypnosis / Moonlight for God knows how long. Psybeam was alright in Castelia, as I used her sometimes to help me level up Sewaddle and Venipede, but once I evolved them and went to the desert for a while... Well, Woobat is also part-Psychic but at least he has coverage (it's actually pretty good early-game, it's slightly stronger than the other pokémon stat-wise), so I'm using it until I pay a visit to Route 9 and catch a Gothita.
 
Pansear is not as shit as people say he is. I have one with a neutral nature and he fucks shit up with Yawn, Flame Burst, Grass Knot and Shadow Claw. He is'nt THAT powerful but he is faster than almost all other threats in-game.
I use him to Yawn stuff, hit them once or twice and then switch out for major sweeping.
I agree maybe Low or Low-Mid for him, but not Bottom. He rocks shit up if you evolve him in his 20's as he's one of the few fully evolved guys at the time. He just needs babying and then retiring early.
I'll keep him till the E4 I think. His yawning comes in handy.
 
Why all that hate for Pidove? Air Cutter is a crit machine despite the poor Special Attack and it evolves early at levels 21 and 32. Once you hit Nimbasa it gets the only move it needs in Return, along with Roost and its physical bulk equal to its attack means that it is a great tank killing a lot of things.

Sandile/Krokorok is beastly.

Lilligant was a great improvement on Petilil but is a bit too slow and a bit too weak for my tastes.
 
Texas Cloverleaf said:
Lilligant was a great improvement on Petilil but is a bit too slow and a bit too weak for my tastes.
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Whaaa?
Lilligant is pretty fast...and Giga Drain was always doing lots of damage even without Quiver Dancing, typically KOing (or near KOing) as well as going first.
And mine had a speed-reducing nature!
 
Citizen said:
Golurk Lvl. 47
Brave @Soft Sand

Heavy Slam
Shadow Punch
Magnitude
Fly

Used mainly for his Fly utility, but his Ghost typing allowed him to be a stalwart against the E4. The only downfalls are that its only available at Dragonspiral Tower + a lack of a strong Ghost physical move + lack of Earthquake. Fly actually proved to be really useful against Marshal. Its gargantuan strength was offset by that fucking ground typing and horrible speed, making it mid tier at best.

Just my two cents :naughty:
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Mid-tier is great (even only for it's late availablity) however it learns earthquake (lol) lvl 50-ish, you just missed the target with that one ;( (then again I grinded al my pokemon to level 50, just because.)
 
Munna is actually not that bad. Musharna is bulky as hell; it only gets really hard to level when you get Psychic... I.E. around level 33-37 it becomes a grind. Four levels isn't bad though, since for the others it's really nice for catching pokemon and has self healing.

Also Psywave isn't fixed damage; it's a weaker Psychic-type Magnitude as far as I know.
 
Munna impressed me too. It isn't top or high tier material, but its solid enough to deserve mid tier. The first few levels are a bit rough, but once it gets Psybeam at level 11 it becomes one of the stronger earlygame Pokemon. When it starts to fall behind offensively and defensively, you get a Moon Stone which allows it to regain and surpass its former glory. 107 SpAtk means that Psybeam should be good enough for most of the game, and Musharna's bulk allows it to remain useful even if you take it to the Elite Four.
 
Breludicolo said:
Munna is actually not that bad. Musharna is bulky as hell; it only gets really hard to level when you get Psychic... I.E. around level 33-37 it becomes a grind. Four levels isn't bad though, since for the others it's really nice for catching pokemon and has self healing.

Also Psywave isn't fixed damage; it's a weaker Psychic-type Magnitude as far as I know.
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http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/psywave

You'll use Psywave until lv10 (and Munna comes at lv8-10), so at best you'll be doing 5-15 damage with it.
 
Munna is pretty useful. Caught it once I got into Dreamyard and ended up having a bulky tank that kills with psybeam, supports with yawn, and heals with moonlight(Not like potions are hard to get with all the trainers giving you money).

Problem is, there seems to be a huge hate for Psychic in this game, with Patrats, Watchogs, Lilipups, and Herdiers biting/crunching left and right, Purrloin and Liepard, Sandiles, Sewaddle, Munna's awesomeness is balanced by the huge amount of supereffective pokemon against it. Towards mid 30s, it isn't as bulky/strong as it is but can still hold up, once it evolves(I evolved it once it got psychic) it becomes beastier than ever, helping me sweep the E4's Caitlin and Marshal.
 
Well, I beat the Elite Four for the first time. Here's my team rundown.

Golurk: Late-game entry. Spent most of its time sucking up XP. Didn't really pay off.

Lilipup/Stoutland 51 (Strength, Crunch, Ice Fang, Thunder Wave): At first, Lilipup was pretty awesome. That early STAB Take Down was brutal, especially when it evolved to Herdier. However, as the game went on, Stoutland kinda lagged. It was probably held back in part by Strength and a lack of a real killer move, though, and once I gave her Thunder Wave to round things out, she was an all-around solid team member, but... in the context of the whole game, she was just too middle-of-the-road for me to call her out as awesome. I'd put her at Mid Tier, myself, simply for lack of shining.

Excadrill: She's Excadrill. Over-hyped, but still excellent.

Virizion 46 (Sacred Sword, Giga Drain, X-Scissor, Aerial Ace): This one, I just tossed on my team before Victory Road and gave it an Exp Share to hold until I got there so it could fill the spot normally held by my HM slave. Still, it didn't wow me by any stretch, and it was a pain to catch. Even coming in at a usable level, I can't give it more than Low Tier, simply because... it just wasn't much use for the effort.

Solosis/Reuniclus 52 (Focus Blast, Psyshock, Recover, Thunder Wave): Now here's a 'Mon that started by wiping out Skyla's entire gym almost solo not long after I got it and then kept on impressing me. Surprisingly bulky for a psychic type, and it hit like a truck. It was pretty slow, but Thunder Wave usually fixed that pretty quick. With this moveset, it just ended up being so darn useful in so many circumstances that I can't give it less than a High Tier nomination.

Seismitoad: MVP. Seismitoad was my go-to 'Mon, and totally deserves that place in the top tier.
 
hi,
I am curently planning a worst team ru of pokemon black.
Even though I want to make a worst team I will not have any duplicates in my team, so no 6 audino team.
Speaking of Audino he is set to be in.
other member candidates include :
Pansear (I think he is the worst of the trio)
Patrat (IMO worst Generation rodent yet)
Basculin (little fishy is no good at the point you can get him)
emonga (good typing but the lack of water typesamkes electrik somewhat iffy)
Pidove of woobat (you should know the reason for those two)

does anyone have any other ideas?
and please don't come with good pokes that evolve late like larvesta since in my Nuzlocke I simply grinded him up to 59 before I went to the elite 4 and swept geshisu and alone with him XD
 
From my playthrough:

Sawk and Drillbur are incredible. If you manage to catch a Sawk early game, you can treat it as a Jeigan of sorts; excellent early game but definitely gets weaker as the game progresses. However, he is pretty damn useful for babysitting some of the pokemon more useful later on (i.e. getting Drillbur to 19).

Drillbur/Excadrill, and I feel most people know this, is a beast. Once it learns SD, EQ, and Rock Slide, it murders everything.

The Tepig line I found to be extremely lacklustre. Slow and many times unable to OHKO pokemon I needed it to. Got to agree with Forets and TheSuperCacterne here.
 
The part that says "Even after Flame Charge I'm still slow, also I need to concede a hit before doing anything, that and Flame Charge isn't even powerful anyway."
 
Clearly, because Emboar's HP stat is simply too low for it to survive any sort of attack, never mind the fact that it can now outspeed most of the non-Emolga/Liepard/other really fast Pokemon and has enough strength in its other attacks to begin sweeping the rest of the enemy team with its two STABs and another form of coverage, such as Grass Knot.
 
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