In-game tiers

well yea in a speed run

but forry's take down will deal a decent amount of damage, explosion will pretty much OHKO, then he can learn spikes and rapid spin which will help if the opponent wants to set up

he helps greatly against red

abra and gastly should both be OU

even if they don't fully evolve, they still rape

eevee should be OU for at least RBY, cause jolteon was a must on teams then (1 of only 2 pokes to learn twinneedle, the only one that could actually use it), then tehre's vaporeon who was also good

lotad is BL for RSE, you get it early, it'll learn great moves, and when it's fully evolved, it's a pain in the ass to take down, and he can dish out a good amount of damage
 
I think Gyarados definitely got better in DP though. Its downside for ingame usage has always been the shitty moves (after dragon rage, it has always kinda fallen to the way side for me), tackle was alright for early midgame though due to its stats. But now, it refreshes its moveset every 3 levels which is freaking spectacular. Plus waterfall is physical now.

You can pretty much start DDing and then go for the sweep in all of E4 battles except for the one that starts off with Mr. Mime.

I have always had a thing against Tentacruel, but now that I am using it, its actually really nice. Its special defense makes it beefy and fills in for icebeamers if you can't get Staryu/Blastroise. Staryu is definitely more useful than this jellyfish due to Recover and its superior sweeping ability and IMO, should go borderline.

Edit: Tentacool also gets cut. Pretty handy when you don't have ziggy helping you. But IMO, staryu outshines it in Ruby/Sapphire.

I always keep a linoone on my team until I have to surf a lot (pickup has gotten me really handy stuff and its a nice HM slave being able to learn most of them).

Never used aron but Azumarrill and Shroomish have saved my ass a bunch of time.
 
Mood4food77 said:
well yea in a speed run

but forry's take down will deal a decent amount of damage, explosion will pretty much OHKO, then he can learn spikes and rapid spin which will help if the opponent wants to set up
What opponents setting up? jk, but anyway I think explosion is a crappy in game move. Lose opportunities to gain experience faster, and have to use revives/go to center just to get the poke back. Especially imo, the main goal of ingame battling is to pick up experience and level up as quick as possible with as little work as possible. Obviously, explosion hinders this goal. Extra sweeper > Explosion

he helps greatly against red
Ok, I'll give you that much, but up until then I'd rather have something that kills things . . .

abra and gastly should both be OU

even if they don't fully evolve, they still rape
Abra: Don't knw about you, but raising a poke who has only teleport is a pita . . . that's why I think karp should be BL for the same reason . . .

Gastly-- GSC--like Mekkah mentioned, lick as its only move until nightshade . . . >.<

RBY-- Haunter closer to OU since it'd be a decent level and already evolved, but it shows up kind of late . . .

eevee should be OU for at least RBY, cause jolteon was a must on teams then (1 of only 2 pokes to learn twinneedle, the only one that could actually use it), then tehre's vaporeon who was also good
Blastoise > Vap, but otherwise (if you picked a different starter) yea maybe.
GSC I think actually has eevee as more useful since Espeon can be very useful.

Jolteon's Thunderbolt > Twineedle (twineedle is basically worthless since bolt does more damage to 'Zam and Hypno, and using it just for eggxecute doesn't add much to its usefulness)

Raichu's Megapunch > Twineedle any day . . .
Click to expand...
 
i thought twineedle was teh reason to use jolteon..oh well

good point on abra and gatly

well i know for a fact, DP

OU
starly
shinx
starters
bronzor
bidoof

bidoor is a HM slave
 
^Definitely

starly-- best normal bird in game EVER. Swellow in RSE was nice, but Intimidate (which it gets @1st evo to Staravia adds so much to its survivability over all those long routes).

shinx-- indimidate + spark . . . nice . . .

starters-- goes without saying

bronzor-- hmm . . . well, I actually feel a bit iffy on this one. Great type, survives routes, can use some good HMs . . . doesn't dish out much damage though, and comes at a kind of low level when you first find him . . .

bidoof-- best. HM. slave. EVER
 
Meh. It holds little significance to me because I only use my starter and whatever you get for free in-game and HM slaves.

I agree with Bidoof for HM slaves. ;D
 
Hm, I sort of like this idea. I haven't played GSC in about... forever. Gotta find that game again and take a spin on it (I have Crystal, but I'm going to look for Silver or Gold. Aeroblast / Sacred Fire is ass).

In the RBY tiers (assuming it's the old-gen), I'd like to note that Vaporeon can still get a decent movepool as far as TMs go. Let's not forget he CAN learn Surf / Blizzard, which could still be obtained earlier than some others... somewhat. Body Slam is an easy TM, and same with Mimic. But then again, it's preference. Acid Armor could help in-game wise, but you'd probably rarely use it.

Bah, I remember how dumb Yellow was when they gave Koga 4 Venonats and a Venomoth. Honestly, it gave me damn nightmares just facing him. Urk...

Otherwise, I like this idea. If we do this for D/P, it could lead to some interesting results.
 
bronzor with levitate

since most in game sweepers tend to be frail, bronzor just can help out by being annoying and taking all those hits your team can't

it's just an amazing add on


there is also

gastrodon (i hear a lot of people use this thing)
magikarp (honostly, with the attack/special split, it's definitely worht leveling up)
gible (if you're lucky to get one early)
skunty is BL, great in game team mate, but not best
machop (no gaurd is good, but is it a good ingamer?)
heracross (if you're lucky)
munchlax (if you're lucky)
aipom (really odn't know though)
zubat (i think he sorta dwindled though)
buizel (i'm not 100% sure though)


there's others
 
As awesome as I find Bronzong to be, I don't see Bronzor going OU in this case.

It can wall hits like a champ, with impressive Base 86 Defense and Special Defense, which is not really hindered by its somewhat lackluster Base 57 HP. The real problem here is that it can't dish out hits - both attacking stats have a horrible Base 24.

However, once it evolves, it's really just awesome. Those defenses become Base 116 a piece, its HP is somewhat more acceptable at Base 67, and it now has a new Base Attack of 89 and Base Special Attack of 79 to play with. It can incapacitate stuff with Hypnosis and hit hard with Gyro Ball, Earthquake and perhaps even Explosion.

The problem, however, is getting to that point. The little amount of damage Bronzor does in game can lead it to be a pain to raise - it can take hits and stop Pokemon with Hypnosis, but it definitely has a hard time hitting back.

For that reason, I'd recommend slotting Bronzor in the BL slot.
 
Blue_Kirby said:
As awesome as I find Bronzong to be, I don't see Bronzor going OU in this case.

It can wall hits like a champ, with impressive Base 86 Defense and Special Defense, which is not really hindered by its somewhat lackluster Base 57 HP. The real problem here is that it can't dish out hits - both attacking stats have a horrible Base 24.

However, once it evolves, it's really just awesome. Those defenses become Base 116 a piece, its HP is somewhat more acceptable at Base 67, and it now has a new Base Attack of 89 and Base Special Attack of 79 to play with. It can incapacitate stuff with Hypnosis and hit hard with Gyro Ball, Earthquake and perhaps even Explosion.

The problem, however, is getting to that point. The little amount of damage Bronzor does in game can lead it to be a pain to raise - it can take hits and stop Pokemon with Hypnosis, but it definitely has a hard time hitting back.

For that reason, I'd recommend slotting Bronzor in the BL slot.
Click to expand...

Bronzor gets Extrasensory really early, and the 80 STAB BP easily outpowers most of your other pokemon's moves despite Bronzor's lackluster SA.
 
I'm going to agree with BL Bronzor. I always make a point to catch one because it's such a damn good wall, but that lack of attack power until it evolves really makes leveling it up a pain in the ass. Yes, Extrasensory is strong when it first learns it, but you have to rely on it until it evolves (Gyro Ball just doesn't have enough PP for much ingame use). And in my experience, it doesn't evolve until around Celestic City, which is kinda late imo.

I've had good results with Budew. It's a pain to evolve, especially if you want Roselia early, but it still has some good moves (10 PP Giga Drain YES PLOX, Sleep Powder, Aromatherapy to save some Full Heals) once it evolves and starts leveling up. Leech Seed if you feel like stalling, too. Learns Sludge Bomb via TM for some strong hits also. Too bad you can't get Roserade until you finish Iron Island.

Shinx is good, but the lack of a good physical electric move (Spark/Thunder Fang...>_<) bumps it down a notch for me. Definitely better than Pachirisu imo though.

Starly is flat out awesome. 'Nuff said.

Drifloon is actually quite powerful ingame. You can catch it as soon as you clear the Valley Windworks, and it's at level 22 when the rest of your team is likely around 15-17. Rapes Gardenia (if it listens to you then...I used my other teammates to level them up) and Maylene to no end, too. Baton Passing Stockpiles and Substitutes is always nice also. Gets Shadow Ball relatively early as well iirc. 50-50 vs. Fantina though.

Turtwig's the only starter I haven't used yet, so I won't comment on him. Chimchar > Piplup though. It's just...stronger. (duh much?) Piplup gets points for free Surfer, but that's about it.
 
Here's things I take into consideration when making this tier list. It's a bit like the ranking system in Fire Emblem if you know that.

Time
If a Pokemon is usable quickly, that is good. For example, RBY Snorlax comes at L30 at a point when most of your team is near or at that level, so you don't have to train him at all. For a counter example, most RBY Safari Zone Pokemon are very underleveled, and so is RBY Lapras (L15 in Silph Co when you should be nearing 40s, but kinda depends which route(s) you take).

Resources
If a Pokemon can use a TM that about no other Pokemon wants, and using that TM helps, that's nice. But some TMs will be wanted by a few of your other team members, and therefore the Pokemon you're talking about might not get that TM. Remember though that the only real goal is to beat the storyline, so you're not saving them up for competitive battling. For example, Exeggcute is a perfect candidate for TM29 Psychic in RBY, but if you're using Gengar then he might take it instead. Obviously, being able to Surf = very good, since Surf HM is unlimited use.

Combat
If a Pokemon can fight on its own off the bat, that's a huge plus. This is what keeps things like RBY Jigglypuff, Magikarp and Abra down - they can't attack when you get them, so you have to do the whole switch back and forth deal, which is kind of gay. This also shows that GSC Gastly isn't really top tier...Lick sucks.

Field Utility
HM whores, GSC Rock Smash, GSC Headbutt, ADV/DP Pickup, Softboiled...needs no real explanation. Sleep moves count for making legendaries, RBY Snorlax, GSC Sudowoodo etc. easier to catch.

Availability Time
A Pokemon that helps you for 8 gyms is better than one for 4 gyms. Simple.

Type advantage towards gyms and major training spots
A great example of a Pokemon that is easy to use because of this is Exeggcute. It's available at a point where you can get the Psychic TM and fight lots and lots of Rockets (Silph Co.), and Blackbelts (Saffron Gym), and also Koga's Poison Gym. And it has a stat boost available with the Leaf Stone if it wants one.

An opposite example is Chikorita, who manages to suck to a degree against nearly all of the Johto gyms.

Chance of encounter
By this I mean both the chance that you encounter this Pokemon in the wild, and the chance that you actually go to the place they're at. Vigoroth and Slaking are awesome, but Slakoth has a really low encounter rate. You're always going to fight Snorlax, Sudowoodo and Red Gyarados no matter what, but will you go out of your way to the Power Plant to get Zapdos, or up Tin Tower to get Ho-oh?

EDIT: Also, because of all above, "abusing" things like repeatedly losing against Misty or overleveling in Mt Moon or something is not considered a valid argument.
 
For RS especially, Mudkip needs his own god tier. Absolutely nothing in that game can stop him. Not a single foe really even comes close. He's way better than the other two starters and everything you can catch.

In RBY, Butterfree needs to be in the top just because Charmander and Pikachu can't do anything to Brock, and it's your best bet otherwise. Really, if you didn't pick Squirtle or Bulbasaur, what else are you going to do? Nidoran is your only other plausible choice, and Butterfree just makes it so much easier. For catching things, it's also highly beneficial to have a sleeper so you kill two birds with one stone.

Mr. Mime is also surprisingly awesome. He grows super fast because of boosted EXP, and at the point in the game you get him, his base stats are pretty huge because he's fully evolved (and a bit better than Farfetch'd!). It really takes no effort to get a lot out of him, and unlike something like Pidgey, he has some decent long term value (I don't get why you would ever use Pidgey or Rattata; the long term returns on both are pretty sucky compared to everything else).

I'd also say that Squirtle is the best starter. Bulbasaur can do sleep, but you can just as easily get something else for that (your sleeper doesn't really need to be strong at all). Then consider the gyms and elite four.

Brock - Squirtle and Bulbasaur win, Charmander loses
Misty - Bulbasaur wins, Squirtle neutrals, Charmander loses
Lt. Surge - Bulbasaur "wins" (but it takes forever), Squirtle loses, Charmander neutrals
Erika - Bulbasaur loses (getting status abused everywhere is losing), Squirtle and Charmander win (ice moves matter more than being grass weak)
Koga - Charmander and Squirtle win (Koga sucks), Bulbasaur loses
Sabrina - Charmander and Squirtle neutral, Bulbasaur loses
Blaine - Squirtle wins, Charmander neutrals, Bulbasaur loses
Giovanni - Squirtle and Bulbasaur win, Charmander loses
Lorelei - Bulbasaur wins, Squirtle neutrals, Charmander loses
Bruno - Squirtle and Bulbasaur win, Charmander "loses"
Agatha - Squirtle and Charmander neutral, Bulbasaur loses
Lance - Squirtle wins, Charmander and Bulbasaur lose
Rival - All three are pretty neutral

Sum points:

Bulbasaur - 0
Charmander - -4
Squirtle - 6

You don't really get a viable alternative water type until Celedon (unless you feel like raising Magikarp). You get a viable alternate grass type way earlier in Cerulean and the alternate fire type slightly earlier in the grass west of Lavender. Squirtle is the hardest to replace. He's just plain the best starter.
 
scorchedsky said:
Well for a RBY speedrun, the only really needed pokes were of course Blastoise and Zapdos. They make an excellent pair for dealing with the later gyms/entire Elite 4. Zapdos takes out Lorelei, Blastoise the Onixs that Bruno has, Zapdos has drill peck for the fighters. Agatha's pokemon get destroyed by Dig from Blastoise, except Golbat who gets a Thunder to the face from Zapdos. Lance gets beat by them as well, and then Gary's not bad at all.
Click to expand...
Just butting in because I saw the word speedrun. My run (that is still being validated, what's taking it so long? ;/) uses a level 100 Mew, although my run is a glitched run. ;D
 
Amazing Ampharos said:
For RS especially, Mudkip needs his own god tier. Absolutely nothing in that game can stop him. Not a single foe really even comes close. He's way better than the other two starters and everything you can catch.

In RBY, Butterfree needs to be in the top just because Charmander and Pikachu can't do anything to Brock, and it's your best bet otherwise. Really, if you didn't pick Squirtle or Bulbasaur, what else are you going to do? Nidoran is your only other plausible choice, and Butterfree just makes it so much easier. For catching things, it's also highly beneficial to have a sleeper so you kill two birds with one stone.

Mr. Mime is also surprisingly awesome. He grows super fast because of boosted EXP, and at the point in the game you get him, his base stats are pretty huge because he's fully evolved (and a bit better than Farfetch'd!). It really takes no effort to get a lot out of him, and unlike something like Pidgey, he has some decent long term value (I don't get why you would ever use Pidgey or Rattata; the long term returns on both are pretty sucky compared to everything else).

I'd also say that Squirtle is the best starter. Bulbasaur can do sleep, but you can just as easily get something else for that (your sleeper doesn't really need to be strong at all). Then consider the gyms and elite four.

Brock - Squirtle and Bulbasaur win, Charmander loses
Misty - Bulbasaur wins, Squirtle neutrals, Charmander loses
Lt. Surge - Bulbasaur "wins" (but it takes forever), Squirtle loses, Charmander neutrals
Erika - Bulbasaur loses (getting status abused everywhere is losing), Squirtle and Charmander win (ice moves matter more than being grass weak)
Koga - Charmander and Squirtle win (Koga sucks), Bulbasaur loses
Sabrina - Charmander and Squirtle neutral, Bulbasaur loses
Blaine - Squirtle wins, Charmander neutrals, Bulbasaur loses
Giovanni - Squirtle and Bulbasaur win, Charmander loses
Lorelei - Bulbasaur wins, Squirtle neutrals, Charmander loses
Bruno - Squirtle and Bulbasaur win, Charmander "loses"
Agatha - Squirtle and Charmander neutral, Bulbasaur loses
Lance - Squirtle wins, Charmander and Bulbasaur lose
Rival - All three are pretty neutral

Sum points:

Bulbasaur - 0
Charmander - -4
Squirtle - 6

You don't really get a viable alternative water type until Celedon (unless you feel like raising Magikarp). You get a viable alternate grass type way earlier in Cerulean and the alternate fire type slightly earlier in the grass west of Lavender. Squirtle is the hardest to replace. He's just plain the best starter.
Click to expand...


Brock gets trashed by Ember. His pokemon have no Rock moves and their special sucks. A decently leveled Charmander is faster than Onix anyway, so if it uses Bide you just growl it to death.

How does Bulbasaur win against Lorelei? Using Razor Leaf as it gets owned by Ice Beam or Blizzard? Send it out against Slowbro sure, but don't tell me it isn't a foolish gambit to leave it in against Dewgong, Lapras and Jynx.

Squirtle is easy to replace. Super Rod lets you catch Staryu at Level 40. Slap on Surf and Ice Beam, buy a Water Stone from Celadon, and problem solved. The hardest part of catching a Staryu is that it knows Recover, but if you send in a fast sleeper it shouldn't fight much. First routes you find Staryu are just south of Fushia City. You can get Super Rod any time after the Pokeflute, so theoretically you could use Staryu on 5 out of 8 Gyms. Starmie has the added benefit of also putting up a fight against Sabrina, and if you give it Thunderbolt it LOLs at Rival too. All 3 starters can trash Brock in RBY since he doesn't carry Rock moves. Misty's Starmie has Recover IIRC so Squirtle loses. Then there's Surge, whose pokemon really hate anything physical touching them. Level up Bulbasaur in Diglett's Cave and get it to learn Razor Leaf, and Venusaur tosses surge aside.

Charmander can't be replaced by anything decent. Ninetales is alright but still doesn't have any power until Level 35. Growlithe is just horrible. Charmander's Slash and Flamethrower dominate basically everything, even if they don't hit SE. Blaine's pokemon can't do anything to Zard that Zard can't outdamage via Slash (remember, RBY Slash has 140 effective BP). Blastoise destroys them quicker with Surf, but can easily be supplanted by Starmie. or even random hyper-leveled wild Tentacool. Charizard has a pretty dismal run against the E4 I suppose, but no worse than Venusaur, and at least it can actually do something to Agatha's Ghosts if you want to give it Earthquake. (and again, it can Slash everything except Gengar to death) Don't get me started on how broken Fire Spin is in RBY. Zard is also the fastest of the starters, meaning for random encounters you can pretty much always be assured it will go first and destroy with Flamethrower or Slash. Charmander can use basically any Mart TM in Celadon in the interim, Whereas neither Growlithe nor Vulpix can get anything over 40 power unless you give them your one-only Body Slam.
 
I always thought Dugtrio was pretty awesome back in RBY for being able to rape everything with Dig, especially Lt. Surge, Erika's Victreebel, Blaine, etc
 
You can also catch the level high20s/30 Dugtrio early on. He's fast as all hell and hits like a truck against most people.

For DP, between Starly and Turtwig you do not at any time need 4 other pokemon. Staraptor's Flying/Normal/Fighting attacks and Torterra's Grass/Ground/Dark/sleep cover every type and will pretty much rape the game for you. Ice is the only common weakness and Staraptor does a good job at the end of the game when Ice Beam becomes more common by Close Combatting to victory.

For RSE, the only trick I can remember is a Swellow to rape Norman with. With Endeavor/Protect/normalSTAB/flyingSTAB, you can get hit once earlier in the gym or outside and then proceed to rape Norman's Slakings for free by bringing them into the red and protecting when they attack. This tactic works well enough on anything you just want to die hard (a cheaper explosion), especially if you abuse the fact that gym leaders will waste a turn healing something from the red only for you to bring them right back down again with Endeavor.

I can't remember most of the old games, looks like it's time to play through GSC again.
 
AA said:
For RS especially, Mudkip needs his own god tier. Absolutely nothing in that game can stop him. Not a single foe really even comes close. He's way better than the other two starters and everything you can catch.
Click to expand...

I agree that he's really fucking good but I don't feel like splitting up tiers even more. 3 is enough.

In RBY, Butterfree needs to be in the top just because Charmander and Pikachu can't do anything to Brock, and it's your best bet otherwise. Really, if you didn't pick Squirtle or Bulbasaur, what else are you going to do? Nidoran is your only other plausible choice, and Butterfree just makes it so much easier. For catching things, it's also highly beneficial to have a sleeper so you kill two birds with one stone.
Click to expand...

So Bulbasaur doesn't get points for putting things to sleep because you can just as easily use something else, whereas Butterfree is killing two birds with one stone? And Rattata and Pidgey aren't worth it in the end-game, but Butterfree is? I could almost see your point for Pidgey, but Rattata gets Hyper Fang and Super Fang which keep it up to awesome level.

Mr. Mime is also surprisingly awesome. He grows super fast because of boosted EXP, and at the point in the game you get him, his base stats are pretty huge because he's fully evolved (and a bit better than Farfetch'd!). It really takes no effort to get a lot out of him, and unlike something like Pidgey, he has some decent long term value (I don't get why you would ever use Pidgey or Rattata; the long term returns on both are pretty sucky compared to everything else).
Click to expand...

I agree Mr. Mime is cool, but keep in mind that you don't get him until you're in Vermillion, and he comes at the level your Abra is. If you're going to train Abra, you might as well use him, since Kadabra is a god whereas Mr Mime is decent (natural Reflect/Psychic/Psybeam/Recover). If you're not going to train Abra then you get a L9 Mr. Mime or so. He'll catch up fine, of course.

AA said:
squirtle squirtle
Click to expand...

Bulbasaur has a 75% effective OHKO against the later gyms and the Elite Four in Sleep Powder. Squirtle also doesn't "win" Erika: getting Stun Spored and then hit with Razor Leaf/Petal Dance/etc means you have to use resources to actually make him win after one Pokemon. It also requires you to use your only Ice Beam TM on it, and Squirtle's not the only one who wants it.

Also, keep in mind you may not want a Water Pokemon, just Water moves. STAB is nice, but you don't need it for Generic Hiker #49 with three Geodudes. You get Water Gun on Mt Moon, Bubblebeam from Misty, and in Fushia you have infinite Surf for anyone who wants it. The only "good" Grass TM you get comes from Erika and that's a 10PP 40BP move without a really notable effect. You don't get any good Fire move until Blane gives you Fire Blast for the final parts of the game, which only has 5PP anyway.

Squirtle can be replaced by a lot of things that learn Water moves. Nidorans, Rattata, Meowth, Clefairy, Jigglypuff...

And yes, Rattata and Pidgey are awesome. Their slight stat loss in the endgame is easily compensated by being there for all the time, and in Rattata's case, arguably being your MVP starting from Cerulean thanks to Hyper Fang (STAB + flinch + relatively high power) and Quick Attack.
 
Double post for GS (NOT Crystal) tiers. People are bound to disagree since it's so long, but here comes. Assuming no Link Cable available, no cloning, and the same standards as outlined before. Please feel free to object if you don't agree, but try to support your reasoning.

Awesome

Chikorita
Cyndaquil
Totodile
Pidgey
Spearow
Rattata
Geodude
Zubat
Mareep
Wooper
Gastly
Bellsprout
Red Gyarados
Oddish
Drowzee
Abra
Sudowoodo
Machop
Snorlax

Possible beefs:
- Snorlax is really high up for a Pokemon that's only available throughout the later parts, but I like how he's your failsafe way to beat up Red. Completely. He's great and low-maintenance without Curse. And with your Curse TM, he is just the greatest Pokemon.
- By Machop I am mostly referring to the one you trade in for Drowzee, which gains EXP really quickly. Karate Chop is good earlygame, and later on he's good with Cross Chop...he's not worth much against the Elite Four except for Karen (he dominates her though), but at least he owns Whitney.

Okay

Hoothoot
Sentret
Caterpie
Weedle
Ledyba
Spinarak
Sandshrew
Hoppip
Paras
Magikarp
Slowpoke
Nidoran (M)
Nidoran (F)
Exeggcute
Venonat
Scyther
Pinsir
Heracross
Stantler
Meowth
Psyduck
Tauros
Miltank
Magmar
Tentacruel
Doduo
Lapras
Raikou
Entei
Suicune
Lugia
Ho-oh

- Legendaries are here because you have to go out of your way to get them, possibly wasting your Master Ball and they grow rather slowly.
- I'd like Slowpoke more if he wasn't one of the only Pokemon who manages to be slower than enemies he has a 100% level lead against.
- Paras is here because he's a good HM guy, not because he's that great in combat.
- Lapras is great, but only if you happen to play on Friday at the point you get Surf, which is kinda situational.

Bad

This one is long, and could be labeled as "everything else". I don't even feel like keeping it up to date.

Code: 
Pikachu
Clefairy
Jigglypuff
Togepi
Ekans
Dunsparce
Unown
Onix
Poliwag
Goldeen
Ditto
Pineco
Yanma
Sunkern
Wobbuffet
Koffing
Grimer
Magnemite
Voltorb
Aipom
Snubbull
Vulpix
Growlithe
Marill
Diglett
Mankey
Tyrogue
Girafarig
Magby
Smoochum
Jynx
Elekid
Electabuzz
Mr Mime
Smeargle
Farfetch'd
Natu
Qwilfish
Tentacool
Krabby
Shuckle
Staryu
Shellder
Corsola
Remoraid
Chinchou
Seel
Lickitung
Tangela
Eevee
Horsea
Gligar
Delibird
Swinub
Teddiursa
Phanpy
Mantine
Skarmory
Ponyta
Cubone
Kangaskhan
Rhyhorn
Murkrow
Houndour
Slugma
Sneasel
Misdreavus
Porygon
Chansey
Dratini
Larvitar

Unavailable:
Bulbasaur
Charmander
Squirtle
Kabuto
Omanyte
Aerodactyl
Zapdos
Moltres
Articuno
Mewtwo
Mew
Celebi
 
Machop is a very good choice for top tier in GSC, whether you can evolve it to Machamp or no. Whitney's Miltank will Rollout all over you if it stays around too long, and picking on its one weakness the fastest way to take it down. Fighting also is about the only way to SE Karen's Umbreon and also take out Red's Snorlax. Snorlax is very annoying.

Are you sure you want to place all the Ice Path pokemon on the lowest tier? Clair can be quite a challenge without an ice attack, and ice Beam/Blizzard Tm's are hard to come by. One of her Dragonairs can likely hit you for SE damage, and without a STAB move her Kingdra can live a very long time. Also the Ice moves come in very handy when it comes to Lance, as if you don't OHKO his Dragonites they can KO with Hyper Beam. And then you are left without a dragon counter. Ow. Jynx is probably the best choice here, decent speed and spatk and comes fully evolved.

And as for the RBY starters, Charmander is a difficult to replace Fire Type, but Fire Types are easily replaced by Flying in terms of killing Grass pokemon so its not that useful. Bulbasaur wins in my book, as Misty is harder than most opponents in the game, Squirtle is useful (though please do not use him against Erika), but a Water/Psychic is the better investment due to the Psychic weakness of Bruno and Agatha later on.
 
Hence why Machop is already in top tier. :)

The Ice Path Pokemon are severely underleveled (late 20s or something?) whereas Clair is near Elite Four level. I'm unsure of the movesets of her Dragons but I believe they all have Thunder Wave which just downright destroys Jynx. You're way better off with random Ice Punches from the Celadon Dept Store. There's some top tiers in there who can do the job (Abra, Drowzee and Wooper spring to mind). There's also Blizzard from the Game Corner, but that's expensive and inaccurate.

I don't really think making Clair and Lance slightly easier tops awful availability time and underleveling.

And yes, Fire can be subbed for Flying rather easily, but Charmander is still a starter that's above anything but the other two, so it wouldn't change his tier position. If I even cared about order within a tier.
 
well for shinx

you do realize that a level 47 untrained, crap IV luxray can OHKO Cynthia's milotic with the charge-spark combo, and it will not get OHKO'd either

just in DP, most pokes you get are glass cannons, which can be somewhat of a problem, probably why most people go for bronzor cause of the added defense

but really, other than kriketot and wingull, the pokes are usable

in GSC, feraligatr with ice punch is absolutely fine against her, you find one along the way
fire hits bug, grass, and ice for SE, resisted by fire, dragon, rock
flying hits bug and grass for SE, resisted by rock and electric

fire hits for one more type, and is resisted by 3 types that combined are much less commonly seen than electric (well, at least competitively), but that one extra type is a lot, and the fact that fire resists ice attacks while flying is weak to them
 
But if you go through Ice Cave and pick up a Jynx before clearing Goldenrod's Radio Tower, you can get it to level up a decent bit from the battles in there. I remember that's what I did forever ago. =/
 
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