Infernape

nld230 said:
Just to reiterate, fire punch is illegal with iron fist, unless I'm missing something.
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It is... (no legal egg moves ;-;)

Which is sad because Iron Fist - Swords Dance/ Fire Punch/ Thunder Punch/ Mach Punch would have been fun to use this gen... (aside from the issue with Dragon types, I think it would have a spot in the current Metagame.)

@Slack Off

It has its bonus (on rare occasions) but I doubt it's worth loosing that extra coverage. A predicted attack on switch in with Infernape with a chance to OHKO or 2KO is way better than healing of a sweeper with weak defensive and giving the opponent a free turn to switch. Likewise in the case of U-turn. U-turning on the predicted switch into an appropriate counter is once again better than giving the opponent a free turn to set up/attack (when your forced to switch Infernape out. After all, we all know a free turn set up can be deadly this gen.)
 
I have tried nearly all the infernape sets i can find(love the monkey) and i have found mix LO with close combat| overheat| u turn| mach punch/ SE and sashnape with rocks| endeavor| mach punch| fire blast to work the best.

sashnape covers the role of a "lead" very well and can sometimes damage/ take down 2-3 pokes very badly(while almost always getting rocks down). It usually at least takes one poke down with it. Mix LO is just extremely versatile and has incredible wall breaking power
 
I've tried multiple movesets too, and yes there's a few that stick out to be the most effective. Like the above poster, I've had a lot of success with the MixApe that is Life Orb... Overheat/Close Combat/U-turn/Mach Punch. I used to run Thunderpunch on that same set over U-turn, but it's only real use was against Gyrados. Overheat is pretty important to that set, since it stops physical walls like Gliscor from stopping it. (Gliscor is OHKOd by Overheat, btw)

I used to use a scarf on Infernape, but I dropped it for Life Orb. Infernape is already fast. Also, locking Infernape into 1 move limits it's versatility, which is probably the best thing it has going for it.
 
shaIIowfaII said:
I've tried multiple movesets too, and yes there's a few that stick out to be the most effective. Like the above poster, I've had a lot of success with the MixApe that is Life Orb... Overheat/Close Combat/U-turn/Mach Punch. I used to run Thunderpunch on that same set over U-turn, but it's only real use was against Gyrados. Overheat is pretty important to that set, since it stops physical walls like Gliscor from stopping it. (Gliscor is OHKOd by Overheat, btw)

I used to use a scarf on Infernape, but I dropped it for Life Orb. Infernape is already fast. Also, locking Infernape into 1 move limits it's versatility, which is probably the best thing it has going for it.
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I was one of the noobs using HP Ice on a mix-ape set. Fire Blast/Close Combat/ U-Turn/Hidden Power Ice.

Don't think it was really worth it, although the surprise factor got me some salamence KOs and was able to lure in some dragonites.
 
IMO, if you're not running MixApe you're using it wrong:
1. It's fast enough to not need a scarf (Deoxys-S is gone, what do you need to outspeed that's worth limiting your own offensive options?) but dedicated scouts could use it (even then, U-Turn on it's own should be enough speed).
2. Swords Dance is a beast, but w/o a screen support you're relying on mind games or shotty defenses to get in a boost, then there's the issue of Gliscor.
3. Nasty Plot does 2HKO a lot of the tier but there's the issue of setting up and better special sweeper altogether.
4. Mix Ape allows Infernape to take on Gliscor, Gyarados, not sure about Slowbro (doubting it) but it should dent it from one end of the spectrum depending on the set, and depending on whether or not you put HP Ice, dragons too.
The way I see it it's MixApe or bust, and that bust ends up being walls.
 
Nkululeko said:
IMO, if you're not running MixApe you're using it wrong:
1. It's fast enough to not need a scarf (Deoxys-S is gone, what do you need to outspeed that's worth limiting your own offensive options?) but dedicated scouts could use it (even then, U-Turn on it's own should be enough speed).
2. Swords Dance is a beast, but w/o a screen support you're relying on mind games or shotty defenses to get in a boost, then there's the issue of Gliscor.
3. Nasty Plot does 2HKO a lot of the tier but there's the issue of setting up and better special sweeper altogether.
4. Mix Ape allows Infernape to take on Gliscor, Gyarados, not sure about Slowbro (doubting it) but it should dent it from one end of the spectrum depending on the set, and depending on whether or not you put HP Ice, dragons too.
The way I see it it's MixApe or bust, and that bust ends up being walls.
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Arguing Nasty Plot's case; on a sun team, it's completely beast, OHKOing everything not named Blissey or Chansey with Flamethrower, Focus Blast, and SolarBeam.
With 252 SpA/252 Spe Timid, at +2:
Focus Blast: 57.4% - 67.6% to 252/252 Calm Chansey (easy 2HKO, and around a 50% chance to OHKO with Stealth Rock and three layers of Spikes)
Focus Blast: 93.6% - 110.4% to 252/4 Bold Blissey (OHKO with Stealth Rock or one layer of Spikes)
Flamethrower: 78.5% - 92.7% to 4/0 Timid Latios (Possible OHKO with Rocks, and OHKO with two switch ins to Rocks or a bit of prior damage)
Flamethrower: 56.3% - 66.5% to 252/0 Timid Latias (walled here, but still damn good damage)
SolarBeam: 55.2% - 65.1% to 252/136 Calm Tentacruel (prompt 2HKO)
SolarBeam: 126.1% - 148.6% to 252/36 Bold Vaporeon (OHKO)

Dragonite, of course, completely walls it, but that's why you have 4 other Pokemon.
 
tomtom5858 said:
Arguing Nasty Plot's case; on a sun team, it's completely beast, OHKOing everything not named Blissey or Chansey with Flamethrower, Focus Blast, and SolarBeam.
With 252 SpA/252 Spe Timid, at +2:
Focus Blast: 57.4% - 67.6% to 252/252 Calm Chansey (easy 2HKO, and around a 50% chance to OHKO with Stealth Rock and three layers of Spikes)
Focus Blast: 93.6% - 110.4% to 252/4 Bold Blissey (OHKO with Stealth Rock or one layer of Spikes)
Flamethrower: 78.5% - 92.7% to 4/0 Timid Latios (Possible OHKO with Rocks, and OHKO with two switch ins to Rocks or a bit of prior damage)
Flamethrower: 56.3% - 66.5% to 252/0 Timid Latias (walled here, but still damn good damage)
SolarBeam: 55.2% - 65.1% to 252/136 Calm Tentacruel (prompt 2HKO)
SolarBeam: 126.1% - 148.6% to 252/36 Bold Vaporeon (OHKO)

Dragonite, of course, completely walls it, but that's why you have 4 other Pokemon.
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Nice research/calcs!

Yeah, NP Infernape is practically unstoppable if it sets up. Infernape just tends to be too frail to pull it off a lot of the time.

If you're planning on using NP Infernape, I'd highly recommend having dual screens on your team. That or something else great to assist in the setting up.

If I got him set up, the only thing that would make me nervous about that set would be Focus Blast's accuracy. How awesome would Aura Sphere be?
 
Dragonite, of course, completely walls it, but that's why you have 4 other Pokemon.
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???

252 SpA nuetral natured LO sun boosted +2 fire blast vs. 4/0 dragonite: 100.9% - 118.5%
252 SpA nuetral natured LO sun boosted +2 fire blast vs. 252/252 careful dragonite: 60.6% - 71.5%

If multiscale is up, you're not doing anything. But if you're using a sweeper without having SR on the field, then you're not going to accomplish much anyway.
 
^He calced with Flamethrower.
However NP Ape should always use Fire Blast as +2 Fire Blast will also KO Gyara and Salamence after SR even outside of sun, you also get a good chance to OHKO 4/0 Rotom-W and with Sun you can even OHKO 252/0 Rotom-Q. NP Ape could also run Close Combat since the most targets you want to hit with Focus Blast are physically weaker. And i would prefer Grassknot over Solarbeam, because Solarbeam is horribly unreliable.
 
It seems to me that Nasty Plot Zoroark would be an excellent partner- it weakens whatever would put a stop to NP Ape, OHKOs Latias (at +2) and takes the same damage from hazards/weather, thus furthering the Illusion.
 
Has anyone had success using Grass Knot? (or Solarbeam, I guess. I'll agree with BurningMan that Solarbeam is just unreliable.)

I ran Grass knot in 4th gen and basically only used it on Swampert. Swampert isn't as popular now, but you've got him AND the newly popular Gastrodon. Is that what you guys are hitting with Grass Knot?

I don't have to worry about that, because the team that has my Infernape on it is a sun team and has other Grass attacks on it.
 
Tentacruel, Jellicent and Gastrodon are the reason to use Grassknot. I haven't seen a Swampert in ages, but it would obviously also help against him if none of these Pokemon are a problem you could also go with HP Ice to revenge DNite, Mence, Haxorus, Landorus and Gliscor or sweep through them if you couldn't get the NP boost. Vaccuum Wave is also an option but it has limited use outside of Terrakion and maybe some scarfers.
 
I'm not going to lie. Grass Knot does diddly squat to Tentacruel even with NP, due to the fact that it has high SpD, a neutrality and surprisingly light weight. Fire Blast does more in the sun, but I'm not 100% sure in neutral weather, and obviously not in rain.

For a while, I ran a Sun Ape with NP/Fire Blast/Vacuum Wave/HP Ice. It didn't miss not having Focus Blast except for against Heatran, and it hit a lot of things hard.
 
Although Nape will not last long spamming it, sun-boosted flare blitz is overpowered. Blaziken does it worlds better, but look where he is now...
 
SolarBeam is used to hit Tentacruel, and besides, who is nuts enough to switch in a TTar or Obamasnow into a Fighting type? Focus Blast does massive damage to Politoed, so the isn't an issue.
 
Solarbeam vs. tentacruel: BAse 120 power attack
Sun boosted fire blast vs. tentacruel: Base 135 power attack after resistance is factored in.

+2 fire blast absolutely demolishes standard bold tentacruel. Jellicient is taking around 80-90% of its health if it tries to stand up to a sun boosted +2 fire blast as well. Gastrodon is the only pokemon you would ever need solarbeam or grass knot for and that is soley because gastrodon always runs a special set. If he isn't, then he dies too.

I would go for hidden power ice or vacuum wave over solarbeam. Choice scarf terrakion likes to be a pain in the ass, while most dragonite will assume that an infernape is setup fodder. +2 hidden power ice ohkos offensive multiscale dragonite even if you don't have stealth rocks up.

It goes without saying that when the life orb puts you into blaze range, just spam fire blast. I do not care what you tell me about resistances. Unless the pokemon your opponent is using is immune to fire, you have no right to be playing pokemon if you are not using +2 LO sun boosted blaze fire blasts against absolutely everything that touches the field.

Kingdra: Ohko'd
Giratina: Loses 98% of its health and is dead with any sort of hazards on the field ranging from, but not included to, a spec of dust.
Lugia: Utter destruction

Edit: Off topic tomtom, but I just read your sig. I can only offer my sorrows to you. I hope you can get through this...
 
As alphatron said, Gastrodon is the only you would need Grass Knot and Solarbeam for. Gastro is falling in usage anyway so it shouldn't be that much of an issue. Anyway, has anyone tried out CB Ape in the post-Excadrill metagame?

And tomtom, I feel your pain..
 
Eradicator said:
As alphatron said, Gastrodon is the only you would need Grass Knot and Solarbeam for. Gastro is falling in usage anyway so it shouldn't be that much of an issue. Anyway, has anyone tried out CB Ape in the post-Excadrill metagame?

And tomtom, I feel your pain..
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I've tried CB Ape, in the sun a flare blitz does absolutely incredible damage. Even though darmanitan is usually used for flareblitz on sun teams, ape's speed really comes in handy sometimes.

The set i generally use the most is mix ape. I love close combat / mach punch / fire blast / hp ice. things that beat it are mostly just fast things like gengar and starmie. Almost everytime i use ape i run a scarftar because he takes out gengar and starmie, which IMO are it's biggest counters. The extra sandstorm damage with LO is really annoying though.
 
Lamppost said:
The set i generally use the most is mix ape. I love close combat / mach punch / fire blast / hp ice. things that beat it are mostly just fast things like gengar and starmie. Almost everytime i use ape i run a scarftar because he takes out gengar and starmie, which IMO are it's biggest counters. The extra sandstorm damage with LO is really annoying though.
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Scarf Rotom-W and CB Zor are also great partners for Ape. Sash Alakazam's great too.
 
Ya scarf Rotom-W and Scizor are a pretty good offensive duo for any team. Sometimes it annoys the hell out of me facing those guys just because i feel like my opponent always has momentum. But ya, on my Infernape team i have Rotom-W and Scizor with Scarftar. The damage those 3 rack up makes it a ton easier for Infernape to clean up, since it's not setting up or anything so it's not really going to KO anything with a neutral attack unless it's weakened a bit.
 
Lamppost said:
The extra sandstorm damage with LO is really annoying though.
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I have used Expert belt on my SD ape with quite some success, though you could also try a flame or fist plate it really helps to cut down the residual damage if you run it with ScarfTar, who is really a great partner, because with Flare Blitz Recoil, CC def drops and sandstorm damage you go down fast enough. It also helps to fake a scarf set wich often leads to some surprise kills.
 
I have used Expert belt on my SD ape with quite some success, though you could also try a flame or fist plate it really helps to cut down the residual damage if you run it with ScarfTar, who is really a great partner, because with Flare Blitz Recoil, CC def drops and sandstorm damage you go down fast enough. It also helps to fake a scarf set wich often leads to some surprise kills.
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Ya, i may have to try a SD Ape with Expert Belt out sometime. I never really bring it out until late-game anyway, so i'm not worried about nabbing any surprise kills because the only time i bring Ape out is when it can sweep or has a free switch pretty much because it's health is dwindled down so quickly. The only problem i have with SD Ape is that it's walled by dragons, and the Lati's outspeed and can KO it. Dragonite also resists it's STABS and can do a lot with CB Extremespeed, which will probably KO after flare blitz recoil are a Close Combat Def drop.
 
Well SD ape isn't really a good late game sweeper, it really shines midgame because there are few things that can wall it, but alot of stuff that can revenge it. He also does great against stall teams, because they often lack something that can sompletly shut him down.
 
I haven't really given SD Infernape a fair chance this generation due to not being able to use Iron Fist with thunder punch, not having a high base power physical fire typed STAb attack that doesn't give you tremendous recoil, and sometimes having coverage issues depending on what you're facing.

Blaziken was able to get away with SD+FB, so I guess infernape can do it too...aside from getting revenged by scarfers of course.

I'm not too fond of just using scarftar as a partner though. Alakazam has been getting more common and scarftar doesn't outspeed him at all. I guess Rotom-W and Scarf Hydreigon could be of assistance instead. I might try it out later on.
 
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